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Old 26th-September-2010, 03:36 AM   Sensi Star's time 25th-September-2010, 10:36 PM    #1
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Default INTP Decision-Making Disorder

I assume that this is a characteristic of our type because of how analytical and cautious we are. However, I MUST address this problem somehow, because it is severely interfering with my ability to transition into an independent, functioning adult.

It seems that infinity is my worst enemy. I am absolutely overwhelmed by having too many options form which to decide. My main problem, I am going to be in my mid 20s and still live with my parents. I just can't seem to settle on a career, and sometimes a job. My former high school peers are already graduating and I'm not even half-done with college because I have no direction on which courses to take. Even simple things like purchasing an everyday item becomes an hour-long task when you notice there are 10 variations/brands of it on the shelf.

This is also a social problem. In the US society equates decisiveness with masculinity, and indecisiveness as a weakness. So forget dating, it's out of the question because of this obsession with decisiveness. Also it's frustrating in the workplace that values speed/efficiency and quick decision-making.

I might even consider medication (only a last resort) as I also have ADD/ADHD (if only opiates could be available for non-pain disorders, as I can actually be at peace and have control of my mind on them). Despite being recognized as intellectually advanced by many teachers, I really don't see a bright future for myself because of the crazy dysfuntional way my mind works. For those of you who suffer from this how do you deal with it and live productively?
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Old 26th-September-2010, 04:19 AM   Words's time 26th-September-2010, 04:19 AM    #2
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Default Re: INTP Decison-Making Disorder

pardon my perhaps out of the line following questions: Why does this 'transition'' matter? How is it a 'transition'? How is it 'functioning'? How is it 'independent' even?
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Old 26th-September-2010, 04:51 AM   EyeSeeCold's time 25th-September-2010, 08:51 PM    #3
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Default Re: INTP Decison-Making Disorder

Words, are you an INTJ? I see a lot of this definition/meaning altering going on. Not in a sense to gain universal clarity in itself, but to form a personal conclusion.
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Old 26th-September-2010, 05:32 AM   EyeSeeCold's time 25th-September-2010, 09:32 PM    #4
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

OP, the problem is that we are theoretical to a fault. For the major decisions you have to make in your life try to sample them with some reality. For instance you probably have 20 careers you'd like to invest your time in, well sample each one and get of taste of the daily grind for that type of work; you can visit a company and get a tour of the place. It's also helpful to think about your future in terms of proficiency and productivity. As for a 9-5 job, I say you have two options: menial and mindless or dynamic and restless.

Don't compare yourself to the rest of society, there is no absolute way to live your live. Be confident in yourself as a person of presence and potential and you will find that achieving anything is but a matter of perseverance.
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Old 26th-September-2010, 05:44 AM   Words's time 26th-September-2010, 05:44 AM    #5
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

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Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
Words, are you an INTJ? I see a lot of this definition/meaning altering going on. Not in a sense to gain universal clarity in itself, but to form a personal conclusion.
Maybe but also maybe you are confusing TiNe for Ni.

How is it 'definition alteration'? I am trying to seek universal definition and I think 'transition' and 'independent', when used in this case, become misleading words. What is true change and independence is deeper and more concise.

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OP, the problem is that we are theoretical to a fault. For the major decisions you have to make in your life try to sample them with some reality. For instance you probably have 20 careers you'd like to invest your time in, well sample each one and get of taste of the daily grind for that type of work; you can visit a company and get a tour of the place. It's also helpful to think about your future in terms of proficiency and productivity. As for a 9-5 job, I say you have two options: menial and mindless or dynamic and restless.

Don't compare yourself to the rest of society, there is no absolute way to live your live. Be confident in yourself as a person of presence and potential and you will find that achieving anything is but a matter of perseverance.
sounds good. It's a matter of perception, patience, understanding, and acceptance. This is independence, or at least a clearer version.
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Old 26th-September-2010, 05:49 AM   warryer's time 26th-September-2010, 12:50 AM    #6
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

It's easy to get locked into not making a decision for fear of not making the "right" one. That was always my problem. This is why I hate buying clothes. This got easier when I figured out that I am not perfect nor is anybody else despite what they (society/media) may tell you. What a weight off my shoulders.

That said I still find my reason locked in battle with my emotion (fear). I hate it but, its kind of interesting. Being able to step outside and observe yourself I think can help you see this sort of thing.

The important thing is to stand by the decision you make. I don't think its really that "decision-making" is whats "masculine" but, that you be self-sufficient and back yourself up.
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Old 26th-September-2010, 06:01 AM   Causeless's time 26th-September-2010, 01:01 AM    #7
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

You have to use your P against itself, I find.

The phrase in my head when immediate progress must be made is, "Fuck, do it! See what happens!"

Even though I'd love to sit there and think about it (and I will, when I have time, run back and forth down an isle comparing prices and quality so I get the BEST deal), when I'm pressed for a decision I take the choices I've thought down to and let intuition throw a dart at them.

I do notice, however, that this puts a drain on my psyche over the course of the day. It's kind of comical when I go to a diner late at night. Whereas earlier in the day I'd be able to pull of the image of normalcy, when I'm tired I become nearly incapable of coming to a decision on my own.

-"Am I hungry? These burgers are big, could I eat a whole one?"-

-"I could get breakfast... nah."-

-"Cheesesteaks are good. I think I'd get tired of the grease though."-

"What'll yah have there?"

Still blankly staring at the menu as if it were the vastness of the universe, "Uh, did he order yet?"

"Yeah."

"Um... I'll just have what he's having."
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Old 26th-September-2010, 06:42 AM   DesertSmeagle's time 26th-September-2010, 01:42 AM    #8
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

In decision making, u will spend literally days researching and surrounding myself with te decision Im making, in hopes I'm making the right one. That's how it was with my video camera . I spent weeks searching the entire Internet. I ended up getting a refurbished 700$ camera for 450$. Quite a bargain, and it was worth every penny. I fund it hard to buy electronics because I know there will be something better right after I buy it.
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Old 26th-September-2010, 07:06 AM   EyeSeeCold's time 25th-September-2010, 11:06 PM    #9
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

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Maybe but also maybe you are confusing TiNe for Ni.

How is it 'definition alteration'? I am trying to seek universal definition and I think 'transition' and 'independent', when used in this case, become misleading words. What is true change and independence is deeper and more concise.
That sounds like extroverted thinking and introverted intuition at work , I think you're worrying about the effectiveness and validity of words rather than what they are trying to convey. I don't really focus on actual words and what they mean independently because I look at the big picture. If you say something, instead of rephrasing it to check its validity and consistency(Te) I'll just try to work with it(Ne).

Even if you are or aren't don't take it personal from me, I just have a need to categorize everything.
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Old 26th-September-2010, 03:43 PM   Cognisant's time 27th-September-2010, 01:43 AM    #10
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

Give into your obsessive compulsive desires, join the dark side, become part INTJ.
It's easy if you allow yourself to enjoy doing it, go play an RTS and micromanage for hours, or start rearranging everything on a table until there's as much symmetry and parallel lines as possible, feel the cathartic effects of order (warning: can be addictive).

And/or go jump into the figurative lake, e.g. sign yourself up for something you can't squirm your way out of, or just move out if you want to, sure you don't know what you're doing, nobody does, just paddle like mad and hope for the best.
Worst case scenario: you have to move back.
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Old 26th-September-2010, 04:04 PM   Adaire's time 26th-September-2010, 09:04 AM    #11
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

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or start rearranging everything on a table until there's as much symmetry and parallel lines as possible, feel the cathartic effects of order (warning: can be addictive).
hehe *warning derail*
Or instead of becoming INTJ, you can play with one a little bit.

I used to have this little game with a mildly OCD friend of mine. Whenever she left the room, got up from the table, etc. I would arrange everything chaotically and when she got back, I'd pretend like nothing had changed. Sometimes she tried to restrain herself, but she always noticed, even when I was subtle. She would then meticulously rearrange everything to be neat and symmetric. Of course I just messed it up again and wouldn't let her 'fix it' right away. I know this kind of sounds rather mean, but it was really in good fun.

and at one point it evolved into a pattern making contest with around 15 or so salt and pepper shakers.

anyway
*rearranges everything on Cog's table*
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Old 26th-September-2010, 04:49 PM   EyeSeeCold's time 26th-September-2010, 08:49 AM    #12
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

^lol That sounds so cruel yet so fun.
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Old 26th-September-2010, 10:11 PM   Words's time 26th-September-2010, 10:11 PM    #13
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

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Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
That sounds like extroverted thinking and introverted intuition at work , I think you're worrying about the effectiveness and validity of words rather than what they are trying to convey.
You think wrong, my friend. I think about both and their own 'oneness'.

Quote:
I don't really focus on actual words and what they mean independently because I look at the big picture. If you say something, instead of rephrasing it to check its validity and consistency(Te) I'll just try to work with it(Ne).
I do often simply 'work' with things but I've been recently captured by this idea of 'aggressive', accurate understanding. If I can somehow connect every little detail, it would benefit me with mental clarity. Not sure if this make sense to you but here it is. I begin with the 'whole cookie' and 'crunch' at what I can but I hesitate to ignore the 'leftovers'---troublesome they maybe---because they might magically lead me to another 'whole cookie'.

In this case, I see "Decision-Making Disorder" as the general idea followed by problems of not being able to follow the 'common lifestyle'. But then, I wonder, "Why does he want to do this?" Is the ineptitude viewed in ' INTP's decision-making' truly a 'disorder'? Or is the answer somewhere else?

Consider this as premise, I am aware of my functions. With this understanding, I find it very strange that you mention Te: the function I have the least connection to. Disregarding function mechanics, the most visible function to me in hierarchy is Fe, Ti, Ne, Si, Ni, Se. I'm quite certain about Fe. In fact, there is only Ti because I really sense Fe. It becomes a bit complicated with perceiving functions as I enjoy playing with possibilities and pattern-surfing but I am also able in perspective-shifting. With the Sensing, there is only Si. Thus, INTP.


Quote:
Even if you are or aren't don't take it personal from me, I just have a need to categorize everything.
You misunderstand. Your type suggestion and other things similar brings me entertainment. It just worries me that this topic might be corrupting the original thread idea.
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Old 27th-September-2010, 12:01 AM   EyeSeeCold's time 26th-September-2010, 04:01 PM    #14
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

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You think wrong, my friend. I think about both and their own 'oneness'.



I do often simply 'work' with things but I've been recently captured by this idea of 'aggressive', accurate understanding. If I can somehow connect every little detail, it would benefit me with mental clarity. Not sure if this make sense to you but here it is. I begin with the 'whole cookie' and 'crunch' at what I can but I hesitate to ignore the 'leftovers'---troublesome they maybe---because they might magically lead me to another 'whole cookie'.

In this case, I see "Decision-Making Disorder" as the general idea followed by problems of not being able to follow the 'common lifestyle'. But then, I wonder, "Why does he want to do this?" Is the ineptitude viewed in ' INTP's decision-making' truly a 'disorder'? Or is the answer somewhere else?

Consider this as premise, I am aware of my functions. With this understanding, I find it very strange that you mention Te: the function I have the least connection to. Disregarding function mechanics, the most visible function to me in hierarchy is Fe, Ti, Ne, Si, Ni, Se. I'm quite certain about Fe. In fact, there is only Ti because I really sense Fe. It becomes a bit complicated with perceiving functions as I enjoy playing with possibilities and pattern-surfing but I am also able in perspective-shifting. With the Sensing, there is only Si. Thus, INTP.



You misunderstand. Your type suggestion and other things similar brings me entertainment. It just worries me that this topic might be corrupting the original thread idea.
Fine, then let me start by asking the OP to pardon my digression and you to pardon my arrogance for my mission of understanding relies on the use of my trusted intuition, which may occasionally fail me.


This trait of leaving no crumb behind, investigating the whole idea in the hopes that it yields a path to another universe of possibilities, is most definitely the result of Ni-Te. Inspecting the information(Te) to discover possibilities(Ni), you use Te to serve your Ni. This combination creates a never ending mental loop that is parallel to your idea of inspecting the whole cookie and finding another to devour (I think a fractal illustrates this perfectly). This scrutinizing attitude toward words and ideas can be expressed figuratively by your mind shouting More! More!! More!!!

My end goal is not to find new possibilities. When I eat the metaphorical cookie I am satisfied, I may eat the crumbs, but only because in essence it is part of the cookie I am trying to eat. I would not have enjoyed the whole cookie if I left out pieces now would I?

If any more evidence on my part is needed, it is apparent in your writing, or more appropriate, typing style. It gives off a controlling and manipulating feel that I can immediately sense when reading it and this has become a trend with other INTJs. Even you say so yourself that you engage in "aggressive, accurate understanding" and "perspective-shifting". Let me explain visually: OP made a topic about "Decision-Making Disorder". What I witnessed was you extracting single lines of information from a larger portion and trying to expand upon new ideas not necessarily related to the end goal of the original idea. A never ending quest...
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Old 27th-September-2010, 03:09 AM   dark's time 26th-September-2010, 10:09 PM    #15
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

Ok I'm reading this thread at the moment, and I once again come across the OP, I know I am about to show my stupidity, I have tried not to ask this to anyone, but I cannot seem to figure it out, google did not give me a good answer, just many usages of OP... so I stupidly ask, what is OP used for? I know in games people used it for overpowered, but, I am pretty sure thats not what it is being used for here... . Sorry I know this does not belong here, but I dont know where to place it other than a thread I encounter it.
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Old 27th-September-2010, 04:50 PM   Words's time 27th-September-2010, 04:50 PM    #16
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

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Ok I'm reading this thread at the moment, and I once again come across the OP, I know I am about to show my stupidity, I have tried not to ask this to anyone, but I cannot seem to figure it out, google did not give me a good answer, just many usages of OP... so I stupidly ask, what is OP used for? I know in games people used it for overpowered, but, I am pretty sure thats not what it is being used for here... . Sorry I know this does not belong here, but I dont know where to place it other than a thread I encounter it.
Do not consider it 'stupid'. The will to inquire is an excellent manifestation of wisdom. I, too, faced the same jargon difficulty.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/OP

  1. (Internet) original poster
  2. (Internet) original post


I'd like to recommend, "define: X", in google. X = any word.
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Old 27th-September-2010, 07:29 PM   dark's time 27th-September-2010, 02:29 PM    #17
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

Ah ha, that makes much more sence than "observation post" haha.
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Old 27th-September-2010, 10:29 PM   shadowdrums4's time 27th-September-2010, 05:29 PM    #18
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

I'm going to pull back to the original topic here:
My trick on buying stuff "Eh it's cheapest and I like it well enough" or "It's not like I can't come back later and try x, I'll try y now" or in your menu example "So what if I can't finish it? Food later" Now when it's some kind of important decision like careers and stuff, I agree with the suggestion to try the stuff out. You may be taking longer than your peers but you will probably be happier when you do finish. I'm having some trouble deciding whether or not to go to college since my intended career is in the music industry. (Preferably playing) I'm researching all the music careers out there though, I might find something I like better. No one said you have to finish college in a certain amount of time especially as long as you are doing well. Hope I helped you out some OP.
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Old 28th-September-2010, 12:24 AM   Sensi Star's time 27th-September-2010, 07:24 PM    #19
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

For those who question my motives: Although I do consider myself a non-conformist, I do want to have some type of social life, and dating life. I do enjoy most of my time alone, but at some point I get sick of living inside my head and need an escape from myself, meaning I need socialization here and there.

Therefore it is not that I need the 'approval' of society for self-satisfaction, it's just that being more 'normal' makes it much easier to attract social interaction. This means transitioning into what is pre-defined as a fully-functional 'adult' by having your own house, a career, a stable decent paying job. I think most can admit that living with your parents and being without a career limits your options socially, because this is what society sees as indication that you are a loser or slacker, and especially which women see as the lower rungs of the dating population.

Even despite much resistance to conform and blend-in that is characteristic of INTPs, sometimes you just have to sacrifice and conform to a certain degree for certain goals, and I desire independence, new friends, and more experience with women, so this calls for such a sacrifice. Not to mention despite social expectations I am not happy in my own eyes in my current situation.
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Old 28th-September-2010, 01:16 AM   EyeSeeCold's time 27th-September-2010, 05:16 PM    #20
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

Well yeah everyone has to sacrifice if they want something good. Sure it sucks that basically all of society's values go against our natural characteristics, but we aren't the only ones who have to submit in order to "succeed". Everything just seems overwhelming since we are practically disintegrated from society, we alone carry the burden.
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Old 22nd-February-2011, 04:10 AM   GYX_Kid's time 22nd-February-2011, 04:10 AM    #21
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

i never feel like doing anything is important, unless something is bluntly and immediately at stake in front of my face = heavy procrastinating, usually.

what makes this 'disorder' so bad for me is that i tend to go back and judge past events in terms of success or failure. dwelling on regrets due to inaction is what drives me into further down-time inactivity. then eventually i get some shit together and 'compensate'/go create a success off the ground from scratch.

but my perfectionism will always hate me for missing out on particular relative epic wins...or at least for 3 more years

gotta hate malignant comfort zones of hate
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Old 24th-February-2011, 10:30 PM   Mostly's time 24th-February-2011, 04:30 PM    #22
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

My first post here, I am in Mom mode.

If you change who you are in order to date the relationship will eventually fail.
I adore INTP men, indecisiveness and all. I can not be the only one. It is a social problem because you believe it is a social problem, a self fulfilling prophecy.

I took seven years to get a diploma. I have never had a job related to my field of study. If I had it to do over I would take at least three more years. Stop comparing yourself to others. There is no hurry to finish, no prize for being first.

Mid twenties and still under your parents roof is the social norm.

The inability to make simple decisions, what to order, what shoes to wear, which shampoo to buy, I live that every moment of my life. A few insights have helped me. One is that this is anxiety driven (opiates are pretty good at reducing anxiety, btw). I sometimes decide in advance as a coping method. I order the same thing every time at almost every place I eat out at. I plan meals at home in advance and have about ten dishes I rotate through. I always buy Dove shampoo. Rationally, it makes no sense to waste my limited resources on trivial decisions. Of course I still do, often, but if I catch myself doing so this line of thinking helps. Also, the aphorism "do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good" is sometimes helpful to keep in mind.

No advice on big decisions, I am still a work in progress.

I am also very ADHD. Medication can be helpful, have you ever done a trial? I resisted for a decade or more and am just now exploring it.
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Old 25th-February-2011, 12:32 AM   EyeSeeCold's time 24th-February-2011, 04:32 PM    #23
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

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My first post here, I am in Mom mode.

If you change who you are in order to date the relationship will eventually fail.
I adore INTP men, indecisiveness and all. I can not be the only one. It is a social problem because you believe it is a social problem, a self fulfilling prophecy.

I took seven years to get a diploma. I have never had a job related to my field of study. If I had it to do over I would take at least three more years. Stop comparing yourself to others. There is no hurry to finish, no prize for being first.

Mid twenties and still under your parents roof is the social norm.

The inability to make simple decisions, what to order, what shoes to wear, which shampoo to buy, I live that every moment of my life. A few insights have helped me. One is that this is anxiety driven (opiates are pretty good at reducing anxiety, btw). I sometimes decide in advance as a coping method. I order the same thing every time at almost every place I eat out at. I plan meals at home in advance and have about ten dishes I rotate through. I always buy Dove shampoo. Rationally, it makes no sense to waste my limited resources on trivial decisions. Of course I still do, often, but if I catch myself doing so this line of thinking helps. Also, the aphorism "do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good" is sometimes helpful to keep in mind.

No advice on big decisions, I am still a work in progress.

I am also very ADHD. Medication can be helpful, have you ever done a trial? I resisted for a decade or more and am just now exploring it.
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Old 25th-February-2011, 01:00 AM   gruesomebrat's time 24th-February-2011, 08:00 PM    #24
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

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My first post here, I am in Mom mode.

If you change who you are in order to date the relationship will eventually fail.
I adore INTP men, indecisiveness and all. I can not be the only one. It is a social problem because you believe it is a social problem, a self fulfilling prophecy.

I took seven years to get a diploma. I have never had a job related to my field of study. If I had it to do over I would take at least three more years. Stop comparing yourself to others. There is no hurry to finish, no prize for being first.

Mid twenties and still under your parents roof is the social norm.

The inability to make simple decisions, what to order, what shoes to wear, which shampoo to buy, I live that every moment of my life. A few insights have helped me. One is that this is anxiety driven (opiates are pretty good at reducing anxiety, btw). I sometimes decide in advance as a coping method. I order the same thing every time at almost every place I eat out at. I plan meals at home in advance and have about ten dishes I rotate through. I always buy Dove shampoo. Rationally, it makes no sense to waste my limited resources on trivial decisions. Of course I still do, often, but if I catch myself doing so this line of thinking helps. Also, the aphorism "do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good" is sometimes helpful to keep in mind.

No advice on big decisions, I am still a work in progress.

I am also very ADHD. Medication can be helpful, have you ever done a trial? I resisted for a decade or more and am just now exploring it.
What's wrong, ESC? You've never heard of a mom advising someone to try opiates?

To be entirely honest, I don't suppose I have either, but I'm definitely not going to argue with the woman. If she thinks opiates are a good way to reduce anxiety, I see no reason to disbelieve her. Although, I would be more inclined to believe that a mom would be using them more for stress relief than anxiety relief. I haven't met a mom yet who seemed anxious, and there's only maybe one or two that I've met that weren't stressed.
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Old 25th-February-2011, 01:45 AM   EyeSeeCold's time 24th-February-2011, 05:45 PM    #25
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

I just thought Moms were the ones to tell you not to do drugs.

My mind is blown at the moment.
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Old 17th-May-2011, 01:08 PM   JLMC's time 17th-May-2011, 08:08 AM    #26
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

I sympathize greatly with the OP. The standard, empty advice is to simply make a decision, even if randomly, and never look back. But psychologically that does not work for people who have the problem in the first place; perhaps never for INTPs. Endlessly reconsidering options does have huge downsides though. My tactics, especially for larger items:

- Realize that you are not just optimizing the intrinsic features of the different options (jobs, clothes) but also the whole situation: the pain of making a decision and the time spent doing so are part of it -- so turn your T on that. Consciously consider how much time a decision is worth before you make it.

- There is no limit to the information you could gather to research your options, but most of that information will be irrelevant or trivial, because you cannot predict the future and how it will really turn out in your specific case. Consciously limit yourself to nominal research; then ask a friend for his experience if necessary: not "the internet" because you will get too much data; just ask one person you know, or one person with an informed opinion.

- It is our tendency to endlessly weigh the data we have, and cogitate on how options align with our own desires and needs. But, again, we cannot predict the future. Trying something, even if only briefly, will give a much better impression than merely thinking about it. This is hard to accept for INTPs, because it seems like theory should suffice, but it usually doesn't. Therefore, go out and see things first hand, try them, talk to people who have done what you're thinking about doing.

There's no magic way to become decisive I think, though maybe some hard-core training weekend where split-second decisions are required would help. This brings to mind advice from a friend of mine: "Not making a decision is actually a decision." Meaning that there are costs to not deciding, and keeping a question open is choosing to accept those costs.


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Old 17th-May-2011, 02:54 PM   Particle's time 17th-May-2011, 08:54 AM    #27
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

This topic is very common to most of us I believe.

What I find particularly interesting and even paradoxical is that we, as thinkers, are forced to surrender the decision making process to our emotional side when it comes to deciding the answer we think is most fitting to a complex problem when the only person being answered to is oneself. We don't seem to have nearly as hard of a time deciding things when it's a purely scientific matter where our inner scientist gets to be cold and objective.

When it comes to a matter of personal choice, such as picking which camera to buy or what meal to order, the inner scientist overloads and sits in a corner muttering to itself while spinning around in its office chair due to the vast amount of information available and hypothetical scenarios one can think of (and their consequences). This has the interesting effect of forcing a thinker into deciding based on what will make them feel like they've made the best decision. Since this side of ourselves generally has a busted knee and cannot move without a walker, it becomes a time-consuming chore. It feels absolutely great if you can pull it off after having spent hours researching, but as the OP noticed this isn't always practical in everyday situations where conclusions can be met nor in far-future situations (jobs, etc) where a correct answer isn't realistically derivable due to the inherent uncertainty.

I don't have a magic answer for the OP's problem, but I do find the whole process that everyone has talked about here familiar and amusing in its own right.
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Old 17th-May-2011, 04:33 PM   SkyWalker's time 17th-May-2011, 05:33 PM    #28
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

indecisiveness (problem) + Ne (solution) => impulsiveness (action)

A dream experience for you (it applies to you only if you have strong Ne):
You try to get to some prize on an island (for example a lady or gadget that you want), and you run to it, but then you realize that you run over lava.... then SHHHHH..... You get burned, GAME OVER, YOU DIE!

Then you wake up and realize: We should not only focus on what might be there to win (Ne) (the prize on the island), we should also focus on what there is to lose (Si) (your legs in the lava dude!!).


So think twice (both gain & loss) before you think too simple (only the gain) about this:

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You have to use your P against itself, I find.

The phrase in my head when immediate progress must be made is, "Fuck, do it! See what happens!"

Ne can get you severely burned!
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Old 19th-May-2011, 11:19 AM   Anub1s's time 19th-May-2011, 04:19 AM    #29
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

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This topic is very common to most of us I believe.

What I find particularly interesting and even paradoxical is that we, as thinkers, are forced to surrender the decision making process to our emotional side when it comes to deciding the answer we think is most fitting to a complex problem when the only person being answered to is oneself. We don't seem to have nearly as hard of a time deciding things when it's a purely scientific matter where our inner scientist gets to be cold and objective.

When it comes to a matter of personal choice, such as picking which camera to buy or what meal to order, the inner scientist overloads and sits in a corner muttering to itself while spinning around in its office chair due to the vast amount of information available and hypothetical scenarios one can think of (and their consequences). This has the interesting effect of forcing a thinker into deciding based on what will make them feel like they've made the best decision. Since this side of ourselves generally has a busted knee and cannot move without a walker, it becomes a time-consuming chore. It feels absolutely great if you can pull it off after having spent hours researching, but as the OP noticed this isn't always practical in everyday situations where conclusions can be met nor in far-future situations (jobs, etc) where a correct answer isn't realistically derivable due to the inherent uncertainty.

I don't have a magic answer for the OP's problem, but I do find the whole process that everyone has talked about here familiar and amusing in its own right.
That is interesting, and also i've found that in certain situations like when deciding what meal to order etc... if the initial decision is satisfactory then all subsequent decisions are the exact same. For example i always order 2 junior bacon cheeseburgers a large fries chicken nuggets and 2 small chocolate frosties at Wendy's every time i go...i also always buy the same toilet paper, and the same pens etc... This is contradictory to my usual desire to be spontaneous, i wonder if other INTP's are the same way.

I cannot stress how much i sympathize with the OP, as your story is my most likely future. I have ADD and dyslexia as well, if you find anything that helps you "move on" then let me know haha.

EDIT: I have run into a problem with dating and relationships where in order to meet women i act a certain way which is different from my usual behavior. But this isn't as uncommon as you would think, as a relationship develops the inner self is harder to hide (so don't). While it may seem superficial to construct a persona to find a mate, its simply how dating in this society works.
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Old 19th-May-2011, 02:12 PM   Particle's time 19th-May-2011, 08:12 AM    #30
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

Certainly. I've not had that much experience with dating due to an inner fear of rejection, but from what I've observed that's very common. Nobody is the same person when they're trying to meet people of the opposite sex. It's sort of annoying, actually. If you present as a normal person instead of Mr. Hasnoproblems or Mr. Impressive (or others--you get the idea), you aren't going to get much attention.
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Old 19th-May-2011, 03:45 PM   JLMC's time 19th-May-2011, 10:45 AM    #31
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

Oh, that's overstating things. My previous g/f and current fiance both iNtuited I had depression immediately, and didn't care (probably because they did too!). So don't give up hope on that score.

It might work better to be open because if someone senses you're hiding things or are weird, that's worse than a concrete problem: "Oh, this person's depressed, I can deal with that"; or "Oh, this person can't make decisions, that's not that bad." Rather than letting their imagination conjure up amorphous badness: "maybe he's psycho." You'll lose some shallow people that way, but so what?
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Old 19th-May-2011, 05:29 PM   Anub1s's time 19th-May-2011, 10:29 AM    #32
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

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Oh, that's overstating things. My previous g/f and current fiance both iNtuited I had depression immediately, and didn't care (probably because they did too!). So don't give up hope on that score.

It might work better to be open because if someone senses you're hiding things or are weird, that's worse than a concrete problem: "Oh, this person's depressed, I can deal with that"; or "Oh, this person can't make decisions, that's not that bad." Rather than letting their imagination conjure up amorphous badness: "maybe he's psycho." You'll lose some shallow people that way, but so what?
Persona are created simply for the purpose of attracting a mate not keeping one, i think we all know that no one is "perfect" (figuratively speaking), based solely on first impressions people would rather go out with "hes funny" "hes good looking" "hes intelligent" then something like "oh this person is depressed, i can deal with that". At a base subconscious level people are looking for an ideal mate, it is illogical for people to be attracted to negative, self detrimental traits, it goes against natural selection. Since we are not animals and choose to transcend standard mating habits n favor of monogamy it is logical to accept the faults/flaws of our chosen mate, but not until initial attraction is satisfied. You can not fall in love and marry the girl of your dreams if you never meet her.
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Old 19th-May-2011, 09:28 PM   Sensi Star's time 19th-May-2011, 04:28 PM    #33
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

Very true points. I can relate to the frustration regarding the mating process in the US. It's nearly impossible to attract women without wearing some kind of mask, at least initially. I find the whole process pretentious and repulsive.

I find wearing a mask to be sooo difficult. It goes against the true nature of INTPs, and I don't really have much of an ego, no concrete stereotypes that "define" or typecast me. The 'closest fit' for me however would be hippies (the clean, intelligent type, not the ones that indiscriminately cram random chemicals into their body).

INTPs can often be described as social chameleons, I know when I'm around a certain group of people I find common cultural ground automatically and express that aspect of myself, therefore blending in, but this happens subconsciously. This natural tendency does not work with women. Women need for a potential mate to clearly define himself, and indecisiveness and uncertainty are viewed as lacking masculinity.
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Old 19th-May-2011, 11:01 PM   JLMC's time 19th-May-2011, 06:01 PM    #34
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

Anub1s, you make a good point. You can't show your downsides immediately; that is off-putting. But that's not quite the same thing as a whole fake persona. There are plenty of women who do not require a super-masculine egotistical type (and the same for men as well I'm sure). So I admit that it's hard, but am just saying there is hope too.
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Old 20th-May-2011, 03:16 PM   Particle's time 20th-May-2011, 09:17 AM    #35
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

It would be a refreshing change to see a group of people who just want to meet regular, other people. Everyone has problems. There's no need to broadcast them up front, but neither should there be a reason to have to pretend like a person doesn't have any. Oh well. Idealism doesn't really apply to the real world.
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Old 20th-May-2011, 05:33 PM   digital angel's time 20th-May-2011, 12:33 PM    #36
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

Sensi Star,

What subject matters in school are you interested in? Perhaps you can make a list of career options based upon this?

Or, what do you see yourself as in the future?
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Old 20th-May-2011, 05:52 PM   Trebuchet's time 20th-May-2011, 09:53 AM    #37
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

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I haven't met a mom yet who seemed anxious, and there's only maybe one or two that I've met that weren't stressed.
Hi, nice to meet you! Maybe we are more successful at hiding anxiety than I thought.
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Old 2nd-June-2011, 11:48 PM   scorpiomover's time 2nd-June-2011, 11:49 PM    #38
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

Know what you mean. Struggled with indecisiveness most of my life.

If you want a quick answer as to how to make decisions quicker, and better, then I recommend you stick to the words of Thomas Carlyle:

Our main business is not to see what lies dimly at a distance, but to do what lies clearly at hand.

It worked for Sir William Osler. It also works for me.

FYI, professional employers, who have a good reputation, prefer people who make their decisions carefully. An ill-considered decision can cost a company a LOT of money, and can ruin the reputation that took them many years to build up.

And, FYI, women don't like guys who are nervous, because they look like they are uncomfortable, because that makes her think that you don't really want to be there with her. But they are quite comfortable with guys who don't make decisions and are comfortable with not making a decision until he is ready.
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Old 3rd-June-2011, 12:12 AM   ummidk's time 2nd-June-2011, 06:12 PM    #39
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

I can often make my decisions quickly, especially about silly stuff like food (pick something you like, it might not be the BEST option but whats the downside, really? You don't enjoy a meal to the full extent?). As you speak of infinity being your enemy, why not use it to your advantage? Think about it like, since there is an infinite number of options that picking the best one is not going to happen.

Also, you have made a decision to not decide, which don't you think is worse than many other options you came up with?
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Old 6th-June-2011, 12:07 PM   LAICK's time 6th-June-2011, 01:07 PM    #40
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Default Re: INTP Decision-Making Disorder

Sorry: though I sympathize, I'm also appaled by the self-deprecating
attitude most people have here. I see everyone analyzing which part
of the theory they can willingly atrribute to a fault in their character.

Wake up; this is but a theory, no one fits neatly into the categories,
nor are they meant to be.

Yes we have our weaknesses, but we also have strong points. And
weaknesses are there to be worked on, our strong analytical sense
is our best friend in this area.

It took me some time to overcome some of these things, and I'm not saying
I've got the solution. But use this knowledge to your advantage, not to
talk yourself down.

Motivation and perseverence are key!
And anything can be done with the right amount of effort and time.
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