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Architect's time 4th-June-2012, 07:54 AM #1 |
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the Intellectual Hitman
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: California
Posts: 2,560
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No smart ass answers please.
Looking at my life it seems that the activity that I enjoy the most and draw the greatest strength from is learning new systems, building and problem solving in them. Computers, music, physics, economics, photography ... each one has been an adventure and source of pure pleasure. Computers have the greatest longevity, music and science eventually panned out. Photography is a source of pleasure, only computing keeps expanding and offering new vistas. Going forward I'm looking to extend and expand this in the future, looking for critique of this hypothesis. |
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AureliaSeverina's time 4th-June-2012, 05:08 PM #2 |
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nice kitty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Liverpool, UK
Posts: 141
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Hum, I'm not quite sure what you mean by ultimate purpose/ greatest strength.
I think INTPs are the best advisors about (personal) problems, because they normally don't give unsolicited advice and also they don't pursue you to check whether you've already done what they told you. They just tell you what to do and if you don't do it they get bored of you and leave you alone. So if an INTP gives you advice, it's because you asked them for it. If you are willing to ask them for advice in the first place, that probably means you're also willing to work on a solution, you just need a little nudge in the right direction. So you can do what they suggest but be independent at the same time and you don't feel like their messing with your head. Also, they might not always know what's going on in their own little heads/ hearts, but they normally know what makes others tick. And because they spend a lot of time observing others, they also know how common a problem is and when you're feeling silly because you think you're the only one who's got that problem, they tell you that everyone is like that and you immediately stop pittying yourself. Hum, I think if INTPs could be bothered to write down all their wisdoms in a book or something, that book would hold the solutions to all the problems in the world. |
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intpz's time 4th-June-2012, 05:30 PM #3 |
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Banned
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Looking at INTPs, their ultimate purpose is to work for somebody by doing something that others cannot or do slower/worse than an INTP could, which allows the to be assholes to their coworkers and to their bosses, especially when doing a really important work. The greatest strength is pure emotionless logic combined with great analytical skills and wild imagination.
As you wrote about yourself, here's some personal thoughts and experiences of mine as well: Since our family is very poor, and got significantly poorer during the past few years, I haven't had a chance to try much. Pretty much the only thing is computer, which I like a lot. I used to code (self-taught) a lot for a short period of time. Later we got poorer and I didn't get enough nutrition to be able to think so well. Now about the things that I actually would like to try, and I think I'd like them, at least to some level and/or for some period of time: photography - sometimes I get an urge to take a picture of something; musical instruments - violin, guitar and perhaps piano in particular; something odd-sounding - interrogation, not possible without the proper papers though; science experiments, but that costs a lot, requires special equipment and is quite dangerous; high-speed driving on a good road; robotics and electronics; making food, though probably not for too long, I'd start buying hot food instead; perhaps comedy and acting, but that requires the E feature, probably; and of course - my own company, which is my life goal. And non-activities that I'm interested in: certain parts of history; certain (most actually) aspects of physics; I used to be interested in logical puzzles a lot, back when I had more "brain power"; Psychology, but I don't particularly enjoy all those theories, I prefer observation. P.S. Just something right off the bat, probably missed half of what I could've wrote. Oh well. |
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cheese's time 5th-June-2012, 05:38 AM #4 |
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Resident Member
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Location: internet/pubs
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I'd say our greatest strength is trouble-shooting, and system perfection/refinement. because our main drive is supposed to be (and appears to be) modeling reality as perfectly as possible.
Sometimes what we want to model perfectly is an idea or creative vision we have, which is basically a process of recreating something we already see in our heads, or building a construct around some basic principles we have a good feel for. I'd say this is the ultimate 'purpose', in that it'd be a result of good personal development and would provide a lot of satisfaction - externalising the internal, and being able to share it. But overall, troubleshooting, really. It seems to be at the heart of every INTP's passion or at least daily life, aside from the creative stuff - error alert and then repair with least possible damage to the system. This lies behind all the advice we seem to find ourselves giving as well (modeling the entire situation, finding the weak/wrong points, and then suggesting a solution within the parameters [principles, moral concerns, etc] to fill the gap - usually failing to incorporate the complications present from being emotionally involved in the situation). Programming is, afaict, very creative and very precise troubleshooting. Teaching, another thing a lot of us seem to have ended up in, involves a lot of that as well (identifying the exact problem in the student, isolating it and then providing a solution for improvement). You might also call it 'variable juggling' - satisfying the parameters, trying to use as general a principle as possible while still being accurate and always searching for a better, even more encompassing structure that can hold all the constant change in place and solve for all possible values. This root seems to be in most of our experiences of satisfactory work/life, though the fields are very varied and the way it manifests may not be obvious. Seems to be how Ti-Ne works, anyway. Constant weeding and refinement on a conceptual level. Obviously that's my model of it. *Actually*, I'd like to revise the 'ultimate purpose'. I think the ultimate purpose would be to perfectly express and communicate our models, whatever they are. Precisely and concisely. It's always so exciting to read writing which has channeled the same crystal you see more perfectly, and managed to capture all its angles at once. When I do anything like that it's always incredibly satisfactory (also relieving because it usually feels like a burden when not expressed properly). The verbal model is complete.
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What lies between? |
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Coolydudey's time 4th-June-2012, 10:29 PM #5 |
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You could say that.
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Pensive-land.....
Posts: 593
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I think something essential has been forgotten though. The INTP's drive for knowledge and it's exactness (I mean what good is it if it only kind of works?). I think deep down, we all want to be at the spearhead of knowledge and discovery. That doesn't mean we have to be in research. As long as we are discovering and doing something original, deep down that satisfies us.
So our ultimate purpose (in my opinion),is to do something original (hopefully creative), without much external control (this destroys creativity and originality). As for our greatest strength, it lies in our ability to quickly comprehend and therefore find consequences of a principle/solve a problem/develop a theory.
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"To think is to be human; to have sex is not to be distinctively human; does this make most of society animals?" - Me |
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Dapper Dan's time 4th-June-2012, 07:35 PM #6 |
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Did zat sting?
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 465
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I think we make great critics/devil's advocates (so long as we keep Fe out of it).
The fact that we don't pin our personal worth onto the ideas we have lets us freely and seriously voice things that others wouldn't even consider. And for the same reason, we are able to let them go if they don't pan out. I think we often overlook or undervalue these traits since they come so naturally. |
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Architect's time 4th-June-2012, 06:07 PM #7 | |
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the Intellectual Hitman
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: California
Posts: 2,560
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What I mean by ultimate purpose is that whatever that is, it has to correlate with your greatest strength, namely Ti/Ne. So for instance an INTP couldn't have an ultimate purpose such as to be the greatest sports figure in history.
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AureliaSeverina's time 5th-June-2012, 09:07 AM #8 | |
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nice kitty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Liverpool, UK
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Quote:
And yes, I'm definite that the INTPs I'm talking about are not INFP or INFJs. About INTPs not bothering people to actually follow their advice, I still think that's a good thing. Most people are stubborn and reject advice even when they have asked for it themselves. So bothering them makes them even more stubborn and unlikely to follow your advice. Seriously, my best friend's boyfriend broke up with her a year ago and she's been crying her eyes out and plotting revenge ever since (she's an ESFJ). She also keeps in touch with him when she knows it's not good for him. I've been advising her for a year to do this, that and the other and she just can't be bothered. Now, an INTP would just freeze people out for a while and if they still want to be friends with him/her or have their respect, they'd do what the INTP says. |
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Orja's time 5th-June-2012, 07:21 PM #9 |
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Still a little Yellow
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Here
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I think our ultimate purpose (as far as our place in society) is to contribute to philosophy. We gather knowledge. Either through study or life experience (usually both), we seek it out like fiends. From a young age, the information is fused to decipher all kinds of patterns and form our own philosophies. After all, ever-expanding, comprehensive packages of understanding are the real goal of our cognitive hoarding. Unfortunately, as much as we would like to think our individual "truths" are objective, they aren't. Despite the lack of real objectivity, those who retain the ability to differentiate between the truly illogical and that which simply doesn't fit into a currently held world view can produce insightful, original, and thought-provoking philosophies. Even the least objective among us can put forth some great (though the word great is here used in an alignment-neutral kind of way) concepts, though they may only "make sense" to a very small subset of the population.
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Last edited by Orja; 6th-June-2012 at 12:23 AM. Reason: I forgot how to use my spacebar. |
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pjoa09's time 6th-June-2012, 11:50 AM #10 |
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testicular melancholy
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: th
Posts: 1,542
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A socially inept is a social adviser.
What. How can our ultimate purpose be what we can't give a rats ass about? I'd like a little better meaning to life. Maybe one that makes sense. INTPs are not marriage counselors. Or I hope they are not. So far from my young adulthood we are just damned with boredom. So far I can't recall a single talent of mine.Suck at it all.
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"I believe, whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you stranger." |
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Hadoblado's time 6th-June-2012, 02:51 PM #11 |
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Senior Member
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Ultimate purpose? Something along the lines of the achievements of:
- Darwin - Einstein - Socrates - Leonarda da Vinci But the vast majority of us do not have that sort of talent. Failing this 'thought forefathering', simple innovation will have to suffice. I would like to have an idea that contributes to a field in a way that mindless empiricism cannot, resulting in it's advancement or overturning. This is unlikely given my current skill set, but I see this as the most important function of INTP's in society. Another easier purpose is to foster intelligent debate wherever we can, resulting in a more critical and consistent society (ideally).
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EyeSeeCold's time 5th-June-2012, 10:39 PM #12 |
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I am the Passenger
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California, USA
Posts: 6,078
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Trying to find direction in my life, I've made effort to identify things most important to me, my habits, my competencies, and what people come to me for when they need something.
What's important to me is my spiritual & physical freedom, my emotional & psychological health, and the people, places, & things I'm attached to. My habits are listening to music, diving inside of myself, and messing around with computers. My competencies are fixing and troubleshooting technological things, knowledge of music and knowledge of things in general. What people come to me most for is help with something technological, (much) less often people need an ear to hear for counseling. I don't know what my purpose is, but I know I can at least be content utilizing my skills and being appreciated for what I can do(still not completely sure what that is).
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"It's a cold world out there... Sometimes I think I'm getting a little frosty myself..." |
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Vrecknidj's time 6th-June-2012, 02:22 PM #13 |
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Resident Member
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Over the years, a number of very different people with a wide variety of issues have sought my advice. In almost all cases, while the topic has rarely been the same twice, the person making the inquiry has suggested that he or she came to me because I'm good at solving problems, I'm good at seeing things from perspectives others haven't considered, and I'm likely to be thoughtful and deliberate if I'm asked to be.
As an aside, for others who are looking for life's meaning or purpose, or for something grand like that, please consider the possibility that you are the only one who can determine what the purpose of your life is, and that there is no reasonably specific answer to such a question that will apply universally. |
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Suraj's time 6th-June-2012, 02:57 PM #14 | |
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Redshirt
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Location: California, USA
Posts: 20
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Quote:
There are INTPs out there who are genuinely interested in the dynamics of social interaction. I am one of them. I may not connect with people so well on the subjective plane of empathy, and of course, I am naturally a very inward person. But I'm damn good at understanding the dynamics of human interactions in terms of predictable patterns that make it easy to evaluate which actions will lead to favorable social outcomes. Organizing the external world in this way makes real life much simpler, and allows me to spend more time where I prefer to - in my own head. I would be a clinical psychologist of some sort, but then I wouldn't be making as much money as I plan to.
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"'Much ado about nothing', he thought. For nothing: this life had been given him for nothing, he was nothing and yet he would not change: he was as he was made. 'It's true, it's really true: I have attained the age of reason.'" -Mathieu, The Age of Reason |
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Proletar's time 7th-June-2012, 01:12 AM #15 |
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Deus Sex Machina
Join Date: May 2012
Location: The Cold North
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Plain simply, I think it lies in evolving the conquests of the human race. Whether it lies in music, art, philosphy, politics, communication or infrastructure. We should work to make things better, to refine ideas. To break all laws.
Because that is where I live. Always adding bricks to ideas presented to me, with little or no respect, only understanding, of the original concept. But that's just me. |
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xeno_girl's time 23rd-July-2012, 03:43 AM #16 |
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thinker of thoughts
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: the interwebs
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An INTP's ultimate purpose is to refine and flex their Ti-Ne-Si-Fe superpowers.... meaning we are happiest when able to first theorize (Ti), then explore information/ideas to support the idea (Ne), then compare it all to what we already know (Si), then produce a final analytical output that applies to everyone (Fe). This is the key to INTP happiness... especially if you can get paid to do it. The topics and fields can vary, but it is the process itself that leads to fulfillment. http://www.personalityjunkie.com has great articles on working through the "functional stack" in healthy, fulfilling ways.
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"People understand me so poorly that they don't even understand my complaint about them not understanding me." - Soren Kierkegaard |
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skip's time 23rd-July-2012, 02:46 AM #17 |
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Sock connoisseur
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Location: Southern California.
Posts: 302
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Mine is abstract critical analysis. I've been wondering lately which hard science fields require the most abstract thinking. If anyone knows, please tell me.
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Architect's time 23rd-July-2012, 03:30 AM #18 | |
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the Intellectual Hitman
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: California
Posts: 2,560
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Quote:
Presumably you are thinking of dabbling? I'd suggest "A Grand Unified Tour of Theoretical Physics" as a good primer, available as a pdf on the web somewhere I think. If you know some tensor calculus and lower division physics it will be easier going, but I think it is possible to learn from the book without that. |
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skip's time 23rd-July-2012, 04:33 AM #19 |
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Sock connoisseur
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Location: Southern California.
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Can you be more specific about how theoretical physics is abstract?
You're about the millionth person to suggest that to me, btw. |
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Architect's time 23rd-July-2012, 03:59 AM #20 | |
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the Intellectual Hitman
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: California
Posts: 2,560
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Quote:
An example from General Relativity. What you are describing - gravity - seems simple. However you spend your time working the the field equations which seemingly have nothing to do with gravity - but geometry. This is the brilliance in Einsteins solution, he turned a gravity problem (what the hell is gravity?) to one of geometry - but not just any geometry. You need tensor calculus to arbitrarily define an n-dimensional space or arbitrary rank. The equations you are solving give you more equations, which can be used to describe physical phenomenon. You are as far from concrete reality as you can be, while still tied directly to it. Same with QM - gauge invariance, symmetry breaking, wave functions, uncertainty ... all abstract concepts to describe small bits of matter. |
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mu is mu's time 23rd-July-2012, 09:13 AM #21 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Louisiana
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That's an interesting question. As others have pointed out, INTPs can make excellent troubleshooters and problem solvers in general with their abilities to concentrate, to remain objective, and to devise pragmatic solutions at a fast rate. The seemingly encyclopedic knowledge base that INTPs often have assists them in this process as well.
I've also read (and experienced) that INTPs constantly seek out the principles underlying reality and desire to unravel them due to the INTP's curious nature as well as for others to understand. They are often extremely effective in communicating these discoveries to others, especially in written/typed format, with their exacting adherence to logic, their (oftentimes) proper grammar, and their versatile vocabularies. INTPs also seem to be effective at recognizing the different phenomena that a certain principle applies to, no matter how different the phenomena are from each other and even when this abstract commonality among the different phenomena has never been recognized previously. And if INTPs are consistent and apply these strengths--troubleshooting, pragmatism, objectivity, and principle recognition--in honestly critiquing their own selves, they can find success nearly everywhere they go, breaking free of the behavioral traps and thought processes that others seem to be permanently entangled in. In similar fashion, INTPs can provide the same service for others who are open-minded to constructive criticism and change, identifying the faults in people's behavior and logic with the same degree of detachment and objectivity that a mechanic uses in diagnosing a car's mechanical issues. There also seem to be a few random things that INTPs are often surprisingly skilled at (e.g., trivia, photography, social mimicry, etc.), but the things I mentioned above seem to constitute our chief strengths. |
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fivepointer's time 23rd-July-2012, 11:26 AM #22 |
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Redshirt
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 9
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I've found that due to my ability to comprehend underlying concepts, I am quite skilled at creating metaphors and analogies.
I also am able to dissect arguments so as to discern the underlying assumptions that combine to form a premise. Then, using my skill at understanding concepts, manipulating them, and carrying them to their furthest logical conclusion, I can do a pretty good job at 1) showing why the original argument is correct/incorrect, and 2) strengthening/fixing the concept. I mostly use these strengths in the realm of Christian theology - certainly not a field in which one would expect an INTP to find a home. |
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skip's time 23rd-July-2012, 11:07 AM #23 | ||
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Sock connoisseur
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Southern California.
Posts: 302
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Quote:
Quote:
Good specifics, thanks. I hope you got your work done in addition. |
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xeno_girl's time 23rd-July-2012, 01:29 PM #24 | |
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thinker of thoughts
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: the interwebs
Posts: 28
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Quote:
The mistake some INTPs make then is to go into psychological counseling or teaching (or God forbid, ministry), where they try to directly work with people. This is ultimately exhausting and draining for an INTP, because Fe is our inferior. We need to stick to the theoretical (Ti-Ne-Si) and offer our analyses from an arm's length perspective, ideally in writing, to appease our Fe. Ultimately though, we feel most fulfilled when we can share our theories, perspectives, and analyses with the world. If you can tolerate the exactness and bureaucracy of traditional research, you could do well in any science or social science research field, because you can publish your findings. Blogging (personal or topical) is a great way for any INTP to seek instant gratification in this manner, because ultimately we really do desire an audience for our ideas thanks to Fe. There are several very insightful articles at http://www.personalityjunkie.com regarding the role of the inferior, especially as it relates to INTPs.
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"People understand me so poorly that they don't even understand my complaint about them not understanding me." - Soren Kierkegaard |
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Manic's time 23rd-July-2012, 01:39 PM #25 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 40
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[QUOTE=mu is mu;302895]That's an interesting question. As others have pointed out, INTPs can make excellent troubleshooters and problem solvers in general with their abilities to concentrate, to remain objective, and to devise pragmatic solutions at a fast rate. The seemingly encyclopedic knowledge base that INTPs often have assists them in this process as well.
I've also read (and experienced) that INTPs constantly seek out the principles underlying reality and desire to unravel them due to the INTP's curious nature as well as for others to understand. They are often extremely effective in communicating these discoveries to others, especially in written/typed format, with their exacting adherence to logic, their (oftentimes) proper grammar, and their versatile vocabularies. INTPs also seem to be effective at recognizing the different phenomena that a certain principle applies to, no matter how different the phenomena are from each other and even when this abstract commonality among the different phenomena has never been recognized previously. QUOTE] I think this is an apt description of the basic INTP strengths. It's interesting to me in light of some of the discussion above and elsewhere about what fields INTPs are best suited for. Although they talk about certain careers, such as engineering, computers and science, being ideal for INTPs, the problem solving approach you describe can be applied to most fields and most activities. My traits are quintessentially INTP, but I'd make a poor scientist and a worse engineer. However, I apply the same logic, analytical skills, and love of theory and systems to other activities of interest such as writing. At first glance, it seems like a contradition that an INTP would make a good thereapist or counselor, but you could apply the same skills to help other people solve their problems. |
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redbaron's time 24th-July-2012, 09:57 AM #26 | |
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Corporate Swine
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,143
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Quote:
Expanding on this, I think that INTP's are very good at seeing the 'intangibles' in people. Seeing potential for growth and achievement in people based on only small snippets of observation and interaction seems to come naturally to me. This I think is what leads to INTP's being good teachers, that ability to understand things about people with very little information. |
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addictedartist's time 21st-October-2012, 03:47 AM #27 |
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-Ephesians4;20
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__________________
![]() but like you cant like make the noob drink and stuff |
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Duxwing's time 22nd-October-2012, 09:29 AM #28 |
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I've Overcome Existential Despair
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Preface: Phrases like "I think" are implied and omitted for the sake of simplicity.
Main Text The ultimate purpose of the INTP is the pursuit of Truth and the resolution of its attendant problems. The inferior Fe, though arguably one of the most suppressed inferiors of all the types, can be quite forceful in 'calling' INTP's to the pursuit of deep concepts; I've felt 'the call' before and the experience was that of something in my chest being pulled into the screen as I watched "Glorious Dawn" by Symphony of Science on my desktop. Moreover, INTP's pursuing Truth make excellent Spock-like nitpicking troubleshooters: case in point, Spock's endless refrain "That would be illogical," which pits Jim's impulsive nature against the cold, pure barrier of reason. However, one does not see Spock arguing with others on the internet (admittedly, there was none back then, but nevertheless) rather, he pursues his personal Truth of achieving pure logicality and exploring the galaxy with cold, perfect efficiency. -Duxwing |
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Analyzer's time 24th-October-2012, 02:13 PM #29 |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 152
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Pursuit of "Truth"
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Sorlaize's time 29th-October-2012, 03:36 AM #30 |
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Burning brightly
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 152
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Depends on what time/economy you live in; what tools you have
For me one of the things I envision for myself is that, rather than doing lots of work in programming/3d/rendering/software, "my time would be better spent paving the way for others" .. I understand computing, and what great problems we have today with accessibility in computing (e.g. "a great map of the internet") .. forums are so closed-up and niche, for example. Ideally you'd build software that links up different points of communication "as the same thing", for example. -- I have really been thinking about existence & absurdism recently, and humanity.. when I was 8 or something I distinctly remember thinking I wanted to write a guide book for life, and I think that stuck with me insofar as trying to explain everything I knew. I am actually able to write that stuff now.. I know INTPs are great at collecting large amounts of information and finding fallacies in phrases (like the sentences I'm writing now.. very careful they are all "correct"..!) .. I should know, I have 10 thousand bookmarks. I also think I want to just unravel what life/existence itself is, in a scientific/philosophical way. To reveal everything about the human being. "because there's not much else to do" .. part of that is existential angst. -- About a week ago I think, I started thinking "is (universal/philosophical/existential) truth really worth anything?" I mean, existence is what we are, as humans. Individually. Where does logic have a place in that? How can it actually shape our lives, if ultimately, logically, it demands stuff like endless self-sacrifice or suicide? It's a paradox or something. -- A phrase I say (in brain language) very often when I think to myself internally, is, "(no, that's) not anything important in particular." Like when evaluating a claim about science and whether it's important enough to consider. -- |
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scorpiomover's time 30th-October-2012, 09:29 AM #31 |
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The little professor
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,023
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Ultimate purpose = Inferior function = Fe = Harmonising the world, getting everyone to live in peace with each other.
Greatest strength = Dominant function = Ti = Logic, figuring out how a rules-based system works, and how to use it to achieve purposes.
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"Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Spock Spoiler:
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Psychic Child's time 1st-November-2012, 06:58 AM #32 | |
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Banned
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Posts: 42
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Fghw's time 10th-December-2012, 06:28 PM #33 |
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 81
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My ultimate purpose is to develop superhuman cognitive ability, discover a cure for death, or instigate a worldwide social/economic revolution.
I have no idea how. |
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