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Old 4th-June-2012, 03:54 PM   Architect's time 4th-June-2012, 07:54 AM    #1
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Default INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

No smart ass answers please.

Looking at my life it seems that the activity that I enjoy the most and draw the greatest strength from is learning new systems, building and problem solving in them. Computers, music, physics, economics, photography ... each one has been an adventure and source of pure pleasure. Computers have the greatest longevity, music and science eventually panned out. Photography is a source of pleasure, only computing keeps expanding and offering new vistas.

Going forward I'm looking to extend and expand this in the future, looking for critique of this hypothesis.
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Old 4th-June-2012, 05:08 PM   AureliaSeverina's time 4th-June-2012, 05:08 PM    #2
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

Hum, I'm not quite sure what you mean by ultimate purpose/ greatest strength.
I think INTPs are the best advisors about (personal) problems, because they normally don't give unsolicited advice and also they don't pursue you to check whether you've already done what they told you. They just tell you what to do and if you don't do it they get bored of you and leave you alone. So if an INTP gives you advice, it's because you asked them for it. If you are willing to ask them for advice in the first place, that probably means you're also willing to work on a solution, you just need a little nudge in the right direction. So you can do what they suggest but be independent at the same time and you don't feel like their messing with your head.
Also, they might not always know what's going on in their own little heads/ hearts, but they normally know what makes others tick. And because they spend a lot of time observing others, they also know how common a problem is and when you're feeling silly because you think you're the only one who's got that problem, they tell you that everyone is like that and you immediately stop pittying yourself.

Hum, I think if INTPs could be bothered to write down all their wisdoms in a book or something, that book would hold the solutions to all the problems in the world.
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Old 4th-June-2012, 05:30 PM   intpz's time 4th-June-2012, 05:30 PM    #3
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

Looking at INTPs, their ultimate purpose is to work for somebody by doing something that others cannot or do slower/worse than an INTP could, which allows the to be assholes to their coworkers and to their bosses, especially when doing a really important work. The greatest strength is pure emotionless logic combined with great analytical skills and wild imagination.

As you wrote about yourself, here's some personal thoughts and experiences of mine as well:

Since our family is very poor, and got significantly poorer during the past few years, I haven't had a chance to try much. Pretty much the only thing is computer, which I like a lot. I used to code (self-taught) a lot for a short period of time. Later we got poorer and I didn't get enough nutrition to be able to think so well.
Now about the things that I actually would like to try, and I think I'd like them, at least to some level and/or for some period of time: photography - sometimes I get an urge to take a picture of something; musical instruments - violin, guitar and perhaps piano in particular; something odd-sounding - interrogation, not possible without the proper papers though; science experiments, but that costs a lot, requires special equipment and is quite dangerous; high-speed driving on a good road; robotics and electronics; making food, though probably not for too long, I'd start buying hot food instead; perhaps comedy and acting, but that requires the E feature, probably; and of course - my own company, which is my life goal.

And non-activities that I'm interested in: certain parts of history; certain (most actually) aspects of physics; I used to be interested in logical puzzles a lot, back when I had more "brain power"; Psychology, but I don't particularly enjoy all those theories, I prefer observation.

P.S. Just something right off the bat, probably missed half of what I could've wrote. Oh well.
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Old 4th-June-2012, 07:38 PM   cheese's time 5th-June-2012, 05:38 AM    #4
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

I'd say our greatest strength is trouble-shooting, and system perfection/refinement. because our main drive is supposed to be (and appears to be) modeling reality as perfectly as possible.

Sometimes what we want to model perfectly is an idea or creative vision we have, which is basically a process of recreating something we already see in our heads, or building a construct around some basic principles we have a good feel for. I'd say this is the ultimate 'purpose', in that it'd be a result of good personal development and would provide a lot of satisfaction - externalising the internal, and being able to share it.

But overall, troubleshooting, really. It seems to be at the heart of every INTP's passion or at least daily life, aside from the creative stuff - error alert and then repair with least possible damage to the system. This lies behind all the advice we seem to find ourselves giving as well (modeling the entire situation, finding the weak/wrong points, and then suggesting a solution within the parameters [principles, moral concerns, etc] to fill the gap - usually failing to incorporate the complications present from being emotionally involved in the situation). Programming is, afaict, very creative and very precise troubleshooting. Teaching, another thing a lot of us seem to have ended up in, involves a lot of that as well (identifying the exact problem in the student, isolating it and then providing a solution for improvement). You might also call it 'variable juggling' - satisfying the parameters, trying to use as general a principle as possible while still being accurate and always searching for a better, even more encompassing structure that can hold all the constant change in place and solve for all possible values. This root seems to be in most of our experiences of satisfactory work/life, though the fields are very varied and the way it manifests may not be obvious.

Seems to be how Ti-Ne works, anyway. Constant weeding and refinement on a conceptual level. Obviously that's my model of it. And I've tried to express it and show how it extends to actual life but of course it's always just a shadow of what I mean and see in my head.

*Actually*, I'd like to revise the 'ultimate purpose'. I think the ultimate purpose would be to perfectly express and communicate our models, whatever they are. Precisely and concisely. It's always so exciting to read writing which has channeled the same crystal you see more perfectly, and managed to capture all its angles at once. When I do anything like that it's always incredibly satisfactory (also relieving because it usually feels like a burden when not expressed properly). The verbal model is complete.
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Old 4th-June-2012, 08:29 PM   Coolydudey's time 4th-June-2012, 10:29 PM    #5
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

I think something essential has been forgotten though. The INTP's drive for knowledge and it's exactness (I mean what good is it if it only kind of works?). I think deep down, we all want to be at the spearhead of knowledge and discovery. That doesn't mean we have to be in research. As long as we are discovering and doing something original, deep down that satisfies us.
So our ultimate purpose (in my opinion),is to do something original (hopefully creative), without much external control (this destroys creativity and originality).
As for our greatest strength, it lies in our ability to quickly comprehend and therefore find consequences of a principle/solve a problem/develop a theory.
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Old 5th-June-2012, 01:35 AM   Dapper Dan's time 4th-June-2012, 07:35 PM    #6
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

I think we make great critics/devil's advocates (so long as we keep Fe out of it).

The fact that we don't pin our personal worth onto the ideas we have lets us freely and seriously voice things that others wouldn't even consider. And for the same reason, we are able to let them go if they don't pan out. I think we often overlook or undervalue these traits since they come so naturally.
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Old 5th-June-2012, 02:07 AM   Architect's time 4th-June-2012, 06:07 PM    #7
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

What I mean by ultimate purpose is that whatever that is, it has to correlate with your greatest strength, namely Ti/Ne. So for instance an INTP couldn't have an ultimate purpose such as to be the greatest sports figure in history.

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I think INTPs are the best advisors about (personal) problems, because they normally don't give unsolicited advice and also they don't pursue you to check whether you've already done what they told you.
Hm, that doesn't jive with anything I know. INTP's normally aren't that people focused, and I don't see the logical conclusion that they are good at it because they don't peruse you and followup. A good people person does exactly that, they follow through and help people, we generally don't. I think an INTP could be good at analyzing personal problems, but in my experience we're as good at using that information that to help somebody (in fact we're generally bad)
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Old 5th-June-2012, 09:07 AM   AureliaSeverina's time 5th-June-2012, 09:07 AM    #8
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

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Hm, that doesn't jive with anything I know. INTP's normally aren't that people focused, and I don't see the logical conclusion that they are good at it because they don't peruse you and followup. A good people person does exactly that, they follow through and help people, we generally don't. I think an INTP could be good at analyzing personal problems, but in my experience we're as good at using that information that to help somebody (in fact we're generally bad)
Out of the 6 INTPs I know, 3 are really good advisors, one is even a therapist. It's not that they are people-focused as such, but it's that random people seek them out when they've got some problem or crisis. These people might not have much to do with the INTP but they somehow are attracted magnetically to them when they've got a problem. I know an INTP girl who's got dozens of 'clients'. (And she's not the one who's a therapist). It must be because INTPs seem calm or something.
And yes, I'm definite that the INTPs I'm talking about are not INFP or INFJs.

About INTPs not bothering people to actually follow their advice, I still think that's a good thing. Most people are stubborn and reject advice even when they have asked for it themselves. So bothering them makes them even more stubborn and unlikely to follow your advice. Seriously, my best friend's boyfriend broke up with her a year ago and she's been crying her eyes out and plotting revenge ever since (she's an ESFJ). She also keeps in touch with him when she knows it's not good for him. I've been advising her for a year to do this, that and the other and she just can't be bothered. Now, an INTP would just freeze people out for a while and if they still want to be friends with him/her or have their respect, they'd do what the INTP says.
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Old 6th-June-2012, 12:21 AM   Orja's time 5th-June-2012, 07:21 PM    #9
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

I think our ultimate purpose (as far as our place in society) is to contribute to philosophy. We gather knowledge. Either through study or life experience (usually both), we seek it out like fiends. From a young age, the information is fused to decipher all kinds of patterns and form our own philosophies. After all, ever-expanding, comprehensive packages of understanding are the real goal of our cognitive hoarding. Unfortunately, as much as we would like to think our individual "truths" are objective, they aren't. Despite the lack of real objectivity, those who retain the ability to differentiate between the truly illogical and that which simply doesn't fit into a currently held world view can produce insightful, original, and thought-provoking philosophies. Even the least objective among us can put forth some great (though the word great is here used in an alignment-neutral kind of way) concepts, though they may only "make sense" to a very small subset of the population.
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Old 6th-June-2012, 04:50 AM   pjoa09's time 6th-June-2012, 11:50 AM    #10
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

A socially inept is a social adviser.

What.

How can our ultimate purpose be what we can't give a rats ass about?

I'd like a little better meaning to life. Maybe one that makes sense.

INTPs are not marriage counselors.
Or I hope they are not.

So far from my young adulthood we are just damned with boredom.

So far I can't recall a single talent of mine.Suck at it all.
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Old 6th-June-2012, 05:21 AM   Hadoblado's time 6th-June-2012, 02:51 PM    #11
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

Ultimate purpose? Something along the lines of the achievements of:
- Darwin
- Einstein
- Socrates
- Leonarda da Vinci
But the vast majority of us do not have that sort of talent. Failing this 'thought forefathering', simple innovation will have to suffice. I would like to have an idea that contributes to a field in a way that mindless empiricism cannot, resulting in it's advancement or overturning. This is unlikely given my current skill set, but I see this as the most important function of INTP's in society. Another easier purpose is to foster intelligent debate wherever we can, resulting in a more critical and consistent society (ideally).
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Old 6th-June-2012, 06:39 AM   EyeSeeCold's time 5th-June-2012, 10:39 PM    #12
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

Trying to find direction in my life, I've made effort to identify things most important to me, my habits, my competencies, and what people come to me for when they need something.

What's important to me is my spiritual & physical freedom, my emotional & psychological health, and the people, places, & things I'm attached to. My habits are listening to music, diving inside of myself, and messing around with computers. My competencies are fixing and troubleshooting technological things, knowledge of music and knowledge of things in general. What people come to me most for is help with something technological, (much) less often people need an ear to hear for counseling.

I don't know what my purpose is, but I know I can at least be content utilizing my skills and being appreciated for what I can do(still not completely sure what that is).
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Old 6th-June-2012, 07:22 PM   Vrecknidj's time 6th-June-2012, 02:22 PM    #13
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

Over the years, a number of very different people with a wide variety of issues have sought my advice. In almost all cases, while the topic has rarely been the same twice, the person making the inquiry has suggested that he or she came to me because I'm good at solving problems, I'm good at seeing things from perspectives others haven't considered, and I'm likely to be thoughtful and deliberate if I'm asked to be.

As an aside, for others who are looking for life's meaning or purpose, or for something grand like that, please consider the possibility that you are the only one who can determine what the purpose of your life is, and that there is no reasonably specific answer to such a question that will apply universally.
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Old 6th-June-2012, 10:56 PM   Suraj's time 6th-June-2012, 02:57 PM    #14
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

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Originally Posted by pjoa09 View Post
A socially inept is a social adviser.

What.

How can our ultimate purpose be what we can't give a rats ass about?

I'd like a little better meaning to life. Maybe one that makes sense.

INTPs are not marriage counselors.
Or I hope they are not.
Actually, INTPs can be great counselors. Close friends of mine always appreciate my ability to put aside the subjective bull people get caught up in that clouds their judgment on how to deal with their problems objectively - indeed, it is this detached objectivity that allows me to counsel people best.

There are INTPs out there who are genuinely interested in the dynamics of social interaction. I am one of them. I may not connect with people so well on the subjective plane of empathy, and of course, I am naturally a very inward person. But I'm damn good at understanding the dynamics of human interactions in terms of predictable patterns that make it easy to evaluate which actions will lead to favorable social outcomes. Organizing the external world in this way makes real life much simpler, and allows me to spend more time where I prefer to - in my own head.

I would be a clinical psychologist of some sort, but then I wouldn't be making as much money as I plan to.
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Old 7th-June-2012, 12:12 AM   Proletar's time 7th-June-2012, 01:12 AM    #15
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

Plain simply, I think it lies in evolving the conquests of the human race. Whether it lies in music, art, philosphy, politics, communication or infrastructure. We should work to make things better, to refine ideas. To break all laws.

Because that is where I live. Always adding bricks to ideas presented to me, with little or no respect, only understanding, of the original concept.


But that's just me.
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Old 23rd-July-2012, 09:43 AM   xeno_girl's time 23rd-July-2012, 03:43 AM    #16
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

An INTP's ultimate purpose is to refine and flex their Ti-Ne-Si-Fe superpowers.... meaning we are happiest when able to first theorize (Ti), then explore information/ideas to support the idea (Ne), then compare it all to what we already know (Si), then produce a final analytical output that applies to everyone (Fe). This is the key to INTP happiness... especially if you can get paid to do it. The topics and fields can vary, but it is the process itself that leads to fulfillment. http://www.personalityjunkie.com has great articles on working through the "functional stack" in healthy, fulfilling ways.
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Old 23rd-July-2012, 09:46 AM   skip's time 23rd-July-2012, 02:46 AM    #17
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

Mine is abstract critical analysis. I've been wondering lately which hard science fields require the most abstract thinking. If anyone knows, please tell me.
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Old 23rd-July-2012, 11:30 AM   Architect's time 23rd-July-2012, 03:30 AM    #18
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

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Mine is abstract critical analysis. I've been wondering lately which hard science fields require the most abstract thinking. If anyone knows, please tell me.
Theoretical physics.

Presumably you are thinking of dabbling? I'd suggest "A Grand Unified Tour of Theoretical Physics" as a good primer, available as a pdf on the web somewhere I think. If you know some tensor calculus and lower division physics it will be easier going, but I think it is possible to learn from the book without that.
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Old 23rd-July-2012, 11:33 AM   skip's time 23rd-July-2012, 04:33 AM    #19
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

Can you be more specific about how theoretical physics is abstract?

You're about the millionth person to suggest that to me, btw.
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Old 23rd-July-2012, 11:59 AM   Architect's time 23rd-July-2012, 03:59 AM    #20
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

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Can you be more specific about how theoretical physics is abstract?

You're about the millionth person to suggest that to me, btw.
We're both up quite early this morning (I get up early to work and suffer INTPforum interruptions). Also, I might ask, if you keep getting the same answer why do you keep asking?

An example from General Relativity. What you are describing - gravity - seems simple. However you spend your time working the the field equations which seemingly have nothing to do with gravity - but geometry. This is the brilliance in Einsteins solution, he turned a gravity problem (what the hell is gravity?) to one of geometry - but not just any geometry. You need tensor calculus to arbitrarily define an n-dimensional space or arbitrary rank. The equations you are solving give you more equations, which can be used to describe physical phenomenon. You are as far from concrete reality as you can be, while still tied directly to it.

Same with QM - gauge invariance, symmetry breaking, wave functions, uncertainty ... all abstract concepts to describe small bits of matter.
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Old 23rd-July-2012, 03:13 PM   mu is mu's time 23rd-July-2012, 09:13 AM    #21
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

That's an interesting question. As others have pointed out, INTPs can make excellent troubleshooters and problem solvers in general with their abilities to concentrate, to remain objective, and to devise pragmatic solutions at a fast rate. The seemingly encyclopedic knowledge base that INTPs often have assists them in this process as well.

I've also read (and experienced) that INTPs constantly seek out the principles underlying reality and desire to unravel them due to the INTP's curious nature as well as for others to understand. They are often extremely effective in communicating these discoveries to others, especially in written/typed format, with their exacting adherence to logic, their (oftentimes) proper grammar, and their versatile vocabularies. INTPs also seem to be effective at recognizing the different phenomena that a certain principle applies to, no matter how different the phenomena are from each other and even when this abstract commonality among the different phenomena has never been recognized previously.

And if INTPs are consistent and apply these strengths--troubleshooting, pragmatism, objectivity, and principle recognition--in honestly critiquing their own selves, they can find success nearly everywhere they go, breaking free of the behavioral traps and thought processes that others seem to be permanently entangled in. In similar fashion, INTPs can provide the same service for others who are open-minded to constructive criticism and change, identifying the faults in people's behavior and logic with the same degree of detachment and objectivity that a mechanic uses in diagnosing a car's mechanical issues.

There also seem to be a few random things that INTPs are often surprisingly skilled at (e.g., trivia, photography, social mimicry, etc.), but the things I mentioned above seem to constitute our chief strengths.
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Old 23rd-July-2012, 05:26 PM   fivepointer's time 23rd-July-2012, 11:26 AM    #22
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

I've found that due to my ability to comprehend underlying concepts, I am quite skilled at creating metaphors and analogies.

I also am able to dissect arguments so as to discern the underlying assumptions that combine to form a premise. Then, using my skill at understanding concepts, manipulating them, and carrying them to their furthest logical conclusion, I can do a pretty good job at 1) showing why the original argument is correct/incorrect, and 2) strengthening/fixing the concept. I mostly use these strengths in the realm of Christian theology - certainly not a field in which one would expect an INTP to find a home.
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Old 23rd-July-2012, 06:07 PM   skip's time 23rd-July-2012, 11:07 AM    #23
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

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We're both up quite early this morning (I get up early to work and suffer INTPforum interruptions).
I was up late, arguing with a friend about whether or not dolphins are whales. Someone from the desert was challenging the knowledge of cetaceans by someone who grew up practically in the Pacific Ocean. Hmph.

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Also, I might ask, if you keep getting the same answer why do you keep asking?
The answer I get most often is, "That's a good question, I have no idea," so getting the same answer frequently is not a reason to stop asking. Philosophy was the next most common response so I had to qualify the question with "hard science." Theoretical physics was third until I did that, now it's second.

Good specifics, thanks. I hope you got your work done in addition.
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Old 23rd-July-2012, 07:29 PM   xeno_girl's time 23rd-July-2012, 01:29 PM    #24
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

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I mostly use these strengths in the realm of Christian theology - certainly not a field in which one would expect an INTP to find a home.
Actually, INTPs are frequently drawn to theology, philosophy, and psychology because of the influence of our inferior Fe. We don't do as well (as for example, INTJs) in some of the hard sciences which focus on research because we have less interest in facts/details and precise measurements than we do in underlying principles and theories. Many INTPs are intrigued by social sciences and religion/philosophy because our Fe prompts us to apply our analytical skills in a manner that will benefit people.

The mistake some INTPs make then is to go into psychological counseling or teaching (or God forbid, ministry), where they try to directly work with people. This is ultimately exhausting and draining for an INTP, because Fe is our inferior. We need to stick to the theoretical (Ti-Ne-Si) and offer our analyses from an arm's length perspective, ideally in writing, to appease our Fe. Ultimately though, we feel most fulfilled when we can share our theories, perspectives, and analyses with the world. If you can tolerate the exactness and bureaucracy of traditional research, you could do well in any science or social science research field, because you can publish your findings. Blogging (personal or topical) is a great way for any INTP to seek instant gratification in this manner, because ultimately we really do desire an audience for our ideas thanks to Fe.

There are several very insightful articles at http://www.personalityjunkie.com regarding the role of the inferior, especially as it relates to INTPs.
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Old 23rd-July-2012, 09:39 PM   Manic's time 23rd-July-2012, 01:39 PM    #25
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

[QUOTE=mu is mu;302895]That's an interesting question. As others have pointed out, INTPs can make excellent troubleshooters and problem solvers in general with their abilities to concentrate, to remain objective, and to devise pragmatic solutions at a fast rate. The seemingly encyclopedic knowledge base that INTPs often have assists them in this process as well.

I've also read (and experienced) that INTPs constantly seek out the principles underlying reality and desire to unravel them due to the INTP's curious nature as well as for others to understand. They are often extremely effective in communicating these discoveries to others, especially in written/typed format, with their exacting adherence to logic, their (oftentimes) proper grammar, and their versatile vocabularies. INTPs also seem to be effective at recognizing the different phenomena that a certain principle applies to, no matter how different the phenomena are from each other and even when this abstract commonality among the different phenomena has never been recognized previously. QUOTE]

I think this is an apt description of the basic INTP strengths. It's interesting to me in light of some of the discussion above and elsewhere about what fields INTPs are best suited for. Although they talk about certain careers, such as engineering, computers and science, being ideal for INTPs, the problem solving approach you describe can be applied to most fields and most activities. My traits are quintessentially INTP, but I'd make a poor scientist and a worse engineer. However, I apply the same logic, analytical skills, and love of theory and systems to other activities of interest such as writing. At first glance, it seems like a contradition that an INTP would make a good thereapist or counselor, but you could apply the same skills to help other people solve their problems.
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Old 23rd-July-2012, 11:57 PM   redbaron's time 24th-July-2012, 09:57 AM    #26
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

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I'd say our greatest strength is trouble-shooting, and system perfection/refinement. because our main drive is supposed to be (and appears to be) modeling reality as perfectly as possible.

Sometimes what we want to model perfectly is an idea or creative vision we have, which is basically a process of recreating something we already see in our heads, or building a construct around some basic principles we have a good feel for. I'd say this is the ultimate 'purpose', in that it'd be a result of good personal development and would provide a lot of satisfaction - externalising the internal, and being able to share it.

But overall, troubleshooting, really. It seems to be at the heart of every INTP's passion or at least daily life, aside from the creative stuff - error alert and then repair with least possible damage to the system. This lies behind all the advice we seem to find ourselves giving as well (modeling the entire situation, finding the weak/wrong points, and then suggesting a solution within the parameters [principles, moral concerns, etc] to fill the gap - usually failing to incorporate the complications present from being emotionally involved in the situation). Programming is, afaict, very creative and very precise troubleshooting. Teaching, another thing a lot of us seem to have ended up in, involves a lot of that as well (identifying the exact problem in the student, isolating it and then providing a solution for improvement). You might also call it 'variable juggling' - satisfying the parameters, trying to use as general a principle as possible while still being accurate and always searching for a better, even more encompassing structure that can hold all the constant change in place and solve for all possible values. This root seems to be in most of our experiences of satisfactory work/life, though the fields are very varied and the way it manifests may not be obvious.

Seems to be how Ti-Ne works, anyway. Constant weeding and refinement on a conceptual level. Obviously that's my model of it. And I've tried to express it and show how it extends to actual life but of course it's always just a shadow of what I mean and see in my head.

*Actually*, I'd like to revise the 'ultimate purpose'. I think the ultimate purpose would be to perfectly express and communicate our models, whatever they are. Precisely and concisely. It's always so exciting to read writing which has channeled the same crystal you see more perfectly, and managed to capture all its angles at once. When I do anything like that it's always incredibly satisfactory (also relieving because it usually feels like a burden when not expressed properly). The verbal model is complete.
Excellent post cheese, and I think very accurate.

Expanding on this, I think that INTP's are very good at seeing the 'intangibles' in people. Seeing potential for growth and achievement in people based on only small snippets of observation and interaction seems to come naturally to me.

This I think is what leads to INTP's being good teachers, that ability to understand things about people with very little information.
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Old 21st-October-2012, 08:47 AM   addictedartist's time 21st-October-2012, 03:47 AM    #27
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

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Old 22nd-October-2012, 02:29 PM   Duxwing's time 22nd-October-2012, 09:29 AM    #28
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

Preface: Phrases like "I think" are implied and omitted for the sake of simplicity.

Main Text
The ultimate purpose of the INTP is the pursuit of Truth and the resolution of its attendant problems. The inferior Fe, though arguably one of the most suppressed inferiors of all the types, can be quite forceful in 'calling' INTP's to the pursuit of deep concepts; I've felt 'the call' before and the experience was that of something in my chest being pulled into the screen as I watched "Glorious Dawn" by Symphony of Science on my desktop.

Moreover, INTP's pursuing Truth make excellent Spock-like nitpicking troubleshooters: case in point, Spock's endless refrain "That would be illogical," which pits Jim's impulsive nature against the cold, pure barrier of reason. However, one does not see Spock arguing with others on the internet (admittedly, there was none back then, but nevertheless) rather, he pursues his personal Truth of achieving pure logicality and exploring the galaxy with cold, perfect efficiency.

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Old 24th-October-2012, 10:13 PM   Analyzer's time 24th-October-2012, 02:13 PM    #29
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Pursuit of "Truth"
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Old 29th-October-2012, 03:35 AM   Sorlaize's time 29th-October-2012, 03:36 AM    #30
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

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INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength
Depends on what time/economy you live in; what tools you have

For me one of the things I envision for myself is that, rather than doing lots of work in programming/3d/rendering/software, "my time would be better spent paving the way for others" .. I understand computing, and what great problems we have today with accessibility in computing (e.g. "a great map of the internet") .. forums are so closed-up and niche, for example. Ideally you'd build software that links up different points of communication "as the same thing", for example.

--


I have really been thinking about existence & absurdism recently, and humanity.. when I was 8 or something I distinctly remember thinking I wanted to write a guide book for life, and I think that stuck with me insofar as trying to explain everything I knew. I am actually able to write that stuff now..


I know INTPs are great at collecting large amounts of information and finding fallacies in phrases (like the sentences I'm writing now.. very careful they are all "correct"..!) .. I should know, I have 10 thousand bookmarks.

I also think I want to just unravel what life/existence itself is, in a scientific/philosophical way. To reveal everything about the human being. "because there's not much else to do" .. part of that is existential angst.


--

About a week ago I think, I started thinking "is (universal/philosophical/existential) truth really worth anything?"

I mean, existence is what we are, as humans. Individually. Where does logic have a place in that? How can it actually shape our lives, if ultimately, logically, it demands stuff like endless self-sacrifice or suicide? It's a paradox or something.


--

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duxwing View Post
Spock's endless refrain "That would be illogical,"
A phrase I say (in brain language) very often when I think to myself internally, is, "(no, that's) not anything important in particular." Like when evaluating a claim about science and whether it's important enough to consider.


--

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic View Post
I think this is an apt description of the basic INTP strengths.




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Old 30th-October-2012, 09:29 AM   scorpiomover's time 30th-October-2012, 09:29 AM    #31
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

Ultimate purpose = Inferior function = Fe = Harmonising the world, getting everyone to live in peace with each other.

Greatest strength = Dominant function = Ti = Logic, figuring out how a rules-based system works, and how to use it to achieve purposes.
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Old 1st-November-2012, 06:58 AM   Psychic Child's time 1st-November-2012, 06:58 AM    #32
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I think our ultimate purpose (as far as our place in society) is to contribute to philosophy. We gather knowledge. Either through study or life experience (usually both), we seek it out like fiends. From a young age, the information is fused to decipher all kinds of patterns and form our own philosophies. After all, ever-expanding, comprehensive packages of understanding are the real goal of our cognitive hoarding. Unfortunately, as much as we would like to think our individual "truths" are objective, they aren't. Despite the lack of real objectivity, those who retain the ability to differentiate between the truly illogical and that which simply doesn't fit into a currently held world view can produce insightful, original, and thought-provoking philosophies. Even the least objective among us can put forth some great (though the word great is here used in an alignment-neutral kind of way) concepts, though they may only "make sense" to a very small subset of the population.
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Old 10th-December-2012, 11:27 PM   Fghw's time 10th-December-2012, 06:28 PM    #33
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

My ultimate purpose is to develop superhuman cognitive ability, discover a cure for death, or instigate a worldwide social/economic revolution.

I have no idea how.
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Old 23rd-May-2013, 10:00 PM   TimeAsylums's time 23rd-May-2013, 03:00 PM    #34
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

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What I mean by ultimate purpose is that whatever that is, it has to correlate with your greatest strength, namely Ti/Ne. So for instance an INTP couldn't have an ultimate purpose such as to be the greatest sports figure in history.

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I think INTPs are the best advisors about (personal) problems, because they normally don't give unsolicited advice and also they don't pursue you to check whether you've already done what they told you.
Hm, that doesn't jive with anything I know. INTP's normally aren't that people focused, and I don't see the logical conclusion that they are good at it because they don't peruse you and followup. A good people person does exactly that, they follow through and help people, we generally don't. I think an INTP could be good at analyzing personal problems, but in my experience we're as good at using that information that to help somebody (in fact we're generally bad)
Having to agree with the middle quote actually, Archie. As far as we (I) would go as to call our thinking objective it is incredibly useful. You mention we don't try to entice people to follow up, but the thing is - we shouldn't have to, if we have the best logical conclusion (objective) then it should be use right? Yet so many people want a damned (subjective) answer. I often summarize it as: people want a simple answer to their complex problems, well we only have complex answers to those types of problems so - good luck.

Edit: Oh, and I'm "people focused." Although you probably mean in terms of S or sensors or even F, I love to take people apart (psychoanalyze etc) and figure their systems or psyches out. But in the traditional sense of "people oriented" to which you are most likely referring, definitely not one of those
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Old 25th-May-2013, 05:31 AM   Late2theParty's time 25th-May-2013, 12:31 AM    #35
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

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No smart ass answers please.

Looking at my life it seems that the activity that I enjoy the most and draw the greatest strength from is learning new systems, building and problem solving in them. Computers, music, physics, economics, photography ... each one has been an adventure and source of pure pleasure. Computers have the greatest longevity, music and science eventually panned out. Photography is a source of pleasure, only computing keeps expanding and offering new vistas.

Going forward I'm looking to extend and expand this in the future, looking for critique of this hypothesis.
I think the ultimate goal of INTP's is...

1) to find some sort of underlying truth + come up with and / or refine a conceptual model to help people / improve the world (indirectly).

2)Also I think we desire the ability and opportunity to function authentically, and self actualize.

3) be rewarded for functioning authentically
a) socially
b) financially
c) probably more here but I can't think...

Of the things you listed, and based on what I read about you in your thread it would seem that computers provide the most opportunity to satisfy those criteria for you. As mentioned elsewhere, since computing is so broad and becoming so integrated into society it offers a lot of opportunities for others as well. The other areas seem much more difficult to find rewards for the average INTP. Something like music for instance, while there are plenty of systems to explore and refine if you really want to (say theory wise)... it probably won't be that appreciated / improve the world, and it probably won't pay off financially unless you are very good. Doesn't mean it's not impossible though.

EDIT:
Another example. While I am currently doing web design, which is in the computing world, and offers tons of opportunities to model and problem solve and refine, (and it's decent for me financially) I don't feel like I'm pursuing any underlying truth's to improve the world. So at some point I feel I will have to shift gears. But the skillset I'm building now I feel will become handy in the future for other endeavors.
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Old 27th-May-2013, 07:26 AM   walfin's time 27th-May-2013, 03:26 PM    #36
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

Roboticise the world one invention at a time. Unfortunately, nobody is interested in producing my patented stuff. But I believe I'll strike paydirt one day.

Then of course there are the political goals for my country/region, but those are generally more NF-type (not all though).
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Old 28th-May-2013, 12:24 AM   Pyropyro's time 28th-May-2013, 08:24 AM    #37
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

to evolve and help others evolve.
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Old 10th-July-2013, 10:31 AM   DelusiveNinja's time 10th-July-2013, 05:31 AM    #38
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Yes!!!! Finally the answer.
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Old 12th-July-2013, 09:35 PM   timber's time 12th-July-2013, 04:35 PM    #39
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

I think in the end, INTPs will break things down to their elements and form strategies to make them better. I don't think you need to expand across fields however - although you certainly can.

But maybe the ultimate purpose of the INTP is to prove the hypothesis to himself that he/she is as smart as he/she thinks they are. Because INTPs start off life appearing slow and are open minded enough to understand that they may not be that smart, they often believe that they are not smart. Its take a lifetime of success to prove to themselves that they are pretty bright.
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Old 13th-July-2013, 02:01 AM   Beat Mango's time 13th-July-2013, 12:01 PM    #40
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

Start off slow? I was a kid genius.
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Old 1st-August-2013, 06:15 PM   DrGregoryHouse's time 1st-August-2013, 06:15 PM    #41
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

"You exist for whats interesting...puzzles, ideas, analysis.."

"The only thing that mattered...that really mattered...was the puzzle...it makes you happy...and why would you need more than that?"


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Old 2nd-August-2013, 04:27 AM   Deckard's time 2nd-August-2013, 02:27 PM    #42
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by Architect View Post
No smart ass answers please.

Looking at my life it seems that the activity that I enjoy the most and draw the greatest strength from is learning new systems, building and problem solving in them. Computers, music, physics, economics, photography ... each one has been an adventure and source of pure pleasure. Computers have the greatest longevity, music and science eventually panned out. Photography is a source of pleasure, only computing keeps expanding and offering new vistas.

Going forward I'm looking to extend and expand this in the future, looking for critique of this hypothesis.
I'd say our evolutionary purpose (presuming our personality type is an evolved trait to fill a niche for selective advantage) is to build good internal models & understand & apply them. I think that underlies almost all of our thinking and our approach to problem solving: our superior capacity to build good internal models.

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I think INTPs are the best advisors about (personal) problems
I think yes, absolutely -- best advisors, maybe not best therapists. Although we are probably best at delivering wake-up calls when people need them. INTPs' value is in their perceptiveness and ability to handle complex problems & solutions, and give a blunt assessment without regard for feelings. Often people fail to perceive & confront their own problems because those around them are too "nice" to be blunt. Although having said all that, it's entirely conditional on the emotional intelligence of the INTP, hence the dichotomy of opinions here. To avoid projecting one's personal traits onto the group, better to simply recognise there is a spectrum of diversity amongst INTPs.
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Old 2nd-August-2013, 05:26 AM   Jennywocky's time 2nd-August-2013, 12:26 AM    #43
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Default Re: INTP Ultimate Purpose/Greatest strength

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I think yes, absolutely -- best advisors, maybe not best therapists. Although we are probably best at delivering wake-up calls when people need them. INTPs' value is in their perceptiveness and ability to handle complex problems & solutions, and give a blunt assessment without regard for feelings. Often people fail to perceive & confront their own problems because those around them are too "nice" to be blunt. Although having said all that, it's entirely conditional on the emotional intelligence of the INTP, hence the dichotomy of opinions here. To avoid projecting one's personal traits onto the group, better to simply recognise there is a spectrum of diversity amongst INTPs.
Great post. And I agree there is an additional dimension in therapy that isn't necessarily needed for "advising," so it rather depends on the unique qualities of the INTP (and also the particular inclinations of the patient) whether that particular application of skills is plausible.

Another word similar to advisor is consultant.
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