Catcher in the rye

[Holy shit this makes sens]

Catcher in the rye?

Amazing book anyone agree?

[Words]

Meh. It's ok. Gave some thoughts on "phoniness" but I doubt a captured any greater idea, if any.

[Holy shit this makes sens]

Are you kidding? Holden?? hes seen as christ like in many eyes, he's fed up with much of the world and its "phoniness" But in many ways he has given everything away and is just looking for a reason in life, much like alot of people. he sees goodness in children un changed by how the world is evolving into place far away from natraul order. what makes some one happy and stuff. i unno.

[Words]

Originally Posted by Holy shit this makes sens

Are you kidding? Holden?? hes seen as christ like in many eyes, he's fed up with much of the world and its "phoniness" But in many ways he has given everything away and is just looking for a reason in life, much like alot of people. he sees goodness in children un changed by how the world is evolving into place far away from natraul order. what makes some one happy and stuff. i unno.

Ok. But I don't understand the relevancy of this.

[Holy shit this makes sens]

Whats the revilence of any fictional book? its just a storie that never happens. but you get to see they authors view on the world. and different views and opinions broaden your insight into things.

[Bird]

No. I disagree. I loathed it.

[Words]

Originally Posted by Holy shit this makes sens

Whats the revilence of any fictional book? its just a storie that never happens. but you get to see they authors view on the world. and different views and opinions broaden your insight into things.

I don't really care about views. I might care about a person's views if I wanted to understand them or some other utility, but I see no use if for it if I'm never going to deal with the same individual again.

Besides, this is one view out of how many? How many views are there?

If there was a fixed amount of views, then I'd appreciate it since it would give me patterns I can continuously rely on. But how many are there?

There's only one true perception.

[OrionzRevenge]

Originally Posted by Holy shit this makes sens

Are you kidding? Holden?? hes seen as christ like in many eyes, he's fed up with much of the world and its "phoniness" But in many ways he has given everything away and is just looking for a reason in life, much like alot of people. he sees goodness in children un changed by how the world is evolving into place far away from natraul order. what makes some one happy and stuff. i unno.

I think it's important to know that J.D. Salinger wants you to see that Holden sees himself as Christ.

In the 60 years since publication, the Hall of Infamy is replete with guys that identify with Holden's personality... or rather pathology.

With the cheeky name of 'Holden' and Salinger's use of the title to direct our attention to the teen boy's self-fantasy, we are being clearly informed that Holden is a Guy with a God Complex.

The kind of guy that is doomed to a melt-down when his divine powers fail him.

The kind of guy that looses his job and feels suicidal but offs the entire family first. Because they couldn't possibly survive this world without him.

It's a reminder that a close identification with Holden might warrant prudently seeking out council.

[ProxyAmenRa]

I thought the book was pretty damn crap. I do not need to read about a person continuously complaining.

[Holy shit this makes sens]

Holy Shit WHAT THE ))(( People's opinions dont matter???? their views dont count? Do you not live in a democracy? Is that not the basis of it? You are by far the most ignorant conceded person i have yet met.

And are you saying there are no variables in life? no chances? opinions make up they chances and variables. people see in such detail. why?

[Words]

Originally Posted by Holy shit this makes sens

Holy Shit WHAT THE ))(( People's opinions dont matter???? their views dont count? Do you not live in a democracy? Is that not the basis of it? You are by far the most ignorant conceded person i have yet met.

Well, thank you holy shit. Why should opinions automatically matter? The multitude is often illogical. Truths are more important.

And are you saying there are no variables in life? no chances? opinions make up they chances and variables. people see in such detail. why?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[ProxyAmenRa]

Perhaps my opinion offended him.

My english teacher recommended it to me because she thought I would identify with the main character. There was one pivotal difference between the main character and I. He was a wimp with no perception of self identity and I am not. The english teacher's comparison between holden and I was an offence.

I finished the book in one afternoon. At the end of the novel I failed to actually determine whether or not the book had any conclusions or profound messages. I treat novels as having no conclusion or profound messages unless explicitly stated. I think of 1000 different things it could have meant but that is I using my cognitive faculties not the author. I know I am a nihilist but damn, a book with no coherent ending is just a waste of time.

[Mush]

Agree. It's in my top 5 at least. Franny&Zooey is awesome too.

[Hammond]

I liked the book, and it certainly was a quick read.

Holden complains a lot, but it helped a 22 year old me put into perspective the mind of a 16-year old me in some ways. Often pointing out the "faults" of others, he often misses out on his own faults. It was interesting to see someone's thoughts and opinions go back and forth like a flag in the wind; it's an interesting look into how unstable the mind can be.

But of course Quagmire points out how much he complains in his rant to Brian on Family Guy, and it made me laugh.

[Deridaburi]

My signature should give some indication.

[ckm]

I couldn't engage with most of it, but I rarely know whether to blame that on the book or my whimsical reading habits.

[Holy shit this makes sens]

I guess it took to me because it took me a month to read. and i only read it when on the bus.

Holden's adventure was not ment to be full of great feats and over coming all odds to produce an amazing ending.

I think it was a book of self reflection.

[Mowgli]

Yes I liked it.
Its a story about a psychologically unstable INFP running around New York City for almost no reason.
How is this not interesting?!

[aaaw]

I love reading good fiction, but this is one supposed classic that I don't like at all. To me it was simply boring. To enjoy the book I think it is necessary to like or identify with the protagonist. I found him irritating and boring.

[MissQuote]

I just read The Catcher in the Rye for the first time at the end of last year and I deeply enjoyed it and even related to it, though I am twice the age of Holden.

I suspect part of the reason it went over so well with me was the ambiance of my situation when I read it, if I had read it at some other point or in some other place I may have felt completely different.

My situation was that I was on a 8 day trip with my grandma to Montreal, just me and her, which is nearly 3000 miles from my home, and in a different country, where everyone speaks a different language than me, and nearly everything written (signs, books in stores etc.) is also in a language I do not read, my cell phone had ceased to work when I crossed the border so I had pretty much no contact with my family at home, we were staying pretty much in the center of downtown and I spent most of the days, and a couple evenings, we were there wandering the city on foot, with no map and no aim, all by myself, talking to nearly no one and just taking in the strangness and beauty of the opportunity to be so far detatched from my life or the need to communicate with anyone I encountered.

And, by chance, I read that book in a couple of evenings back at the hotel.

[aaaw]

I suspect part of the reason it went over so well with me was the ambiance of my situation when I read it, if I had read it at some other point or in some other place I may have felt completely different.

True. I think the reader's personal circumstances and frame of mind are very important in how a book is interpreted and appreciated.

With this in mind I tried to read Catcher in the Rye again more recently, but gave up after a few pages. It just seems pointless and dull to me.

[Offbeat]

It's an overrated book, but I quite liked it. I think that the point is that Holden is supposed to be difficult to relate to. He's unpredictable, which kept my interest and moved the story on, and he's a caricature of a particular kind of teenager; as idealistic as he is hypocritical.

Also -- it makes no sense to think that a piece of fiction can only have merit if it has a protagonist that's easy to relate to.

[aaaw]

Also -- it makes no sense to think that a piece of fiction can only have merit if it has a protagonist that's easy to relate to.

I didn't say it didn't have merit. I just said I didn't like it. Perhaps I worded it too strongly, but for me it was hard to enjoy the book because I didn't find the main character interesting. If I felt that I could relate to the main character more I might have enjoyed it. I realise I'm in a minority on this, but it is a book that simply bored me.

[Offbeat]

Originally Posted by aaaw

I didn't say it didn't have merit. I just said I didn't like it. Perhaps I worded it too strongly, but for me it was hard to enjoy the book because I didn't find the main character interesting. If I felt that I could relate to the main character more I might have enjoyed it. I realise I'm in a minority on this, but it is a book that simply bored me.

This wasn't necessarily aimed at you, it just seems to be the most common criticism of the book. I can never really tell whether people mean to say that Holden is an unrealistic, two-dimensional character, or whether they just don't like or understand him themselves.

I've read discussions of whether Holden has a personality disorder or mental illness, and I guess it's easier to just conclude that he's a poorly drawn character. Either way, I like the fact that he's somewhat of a caricature and I'm just looking to see whether it's this aspect of the book that makes it so hated, or whether people genuinely prefer less eccentric protagonists.

[MissQuote]

Originally Posted by aaaw

True. I think the reader's personal circumstances and frame of mind are very important in how a book is interpreted and appreciated.

With this in mind I tried to read Catcher in the Rye again more recently, but gave up after a few pages. It just seems pointless and dull to me.

With many books, in fact probably most, a huge indicator for over whether I like it or not is whether I feel like it is something I could have written, had I thought of it of course. I want to get into the mind of the author far more than the mind of the characters, I guess sort of looking at the underlying stuff and course of the story more than what anyone in the story is like.

I have found many books others rave about to be complete bores, or too much of a forced complication on the surface with nothing below it or whatever.

[nihilen.]

I liked it because it was a good book. and of course it's overrated, almost every very well known book is. but I don't really mind good books that happen to be overrated.

[MissQuote]

Your avatar is one of my favorite Van Gogh's.

[nihilen.]

well, I like your Dali.
hah, btw I read it on a little trip to Montreal as well, that's about 5000 miles from home.

[introverted_thinker]

I really liked it; I could relate to Holden a lot, especially his cynicism.

[skip]

I hate it. It's the least of Salinger's works and whenever someone reads it, they think they're done with Salinger. A pity.

[Chronomar]

I read it in 6th grade and I liked it overall. That I remember it is a good indication of that. The writing was like an immersion into someone's world. I do think that other of Salinger's works are better, and it is true that Holden isn't exactly the very model of a mentally stable "normal kid", but there were sides to the narrative that I related to, even if they were not always my best sides.

Sometimes, cynicism is justified. I make no apologies for my feeling disconnected from others. It's not my fault, not their fault, it has no "fault", it just is. What I do regret is sometimes treating others as "things" with no intelligence instead of "people".

Additionally, back to the book, it was psychologically interesting to read.

It reminds me of another book I read later..."A Separate Piece" I think it was called?

[LateNightSnack]

Everyone I know who has read it has hated it. I haven't read it, it doesn't seem interesting. The cover with the fire-horse-thing looks cool though

[vault]

as a teenager 13-15 i became obsessed with it and read it about 7 times. someone reliable told me that this experience is sometimes considered typical of a very particular rite of passage which progresses to an absolute rejection of the novel: "everyone" is supposed to come to hate catcher. i no longer hate it. the vernacular is spectacularly managed and the character profile is monumentally virtuosic - very very complete, cohesive, coherent, convincing, and unique. is it necessary for an individual to require a justified "meaning" in order to be important and worthy, say of literary exploration - or is it more fair to say that every human individual is important and worthy, that the richness of individuality, variation of human personhood, justifies itself?

what is so good about salinger's other works? i thought i was done with him after catcher.

has anyone seen igby goes down or that good girl film with jennifer aniston and jake gyllenhaal? i wonder whether a true film adaptation will be made now that salinger has passed away. i feel like as though i would be inevitably disappointed by any casting of holden. unless he was played by kristen stewart maybe.

[Mantush]

Catcher in the Rye is a novel about a teenager struggling with grief after losing his brother Allie to leukemia. There's a reason why Allie is mentioned a countless number of times because he's still very much a real consideration in Holden's thought process. He was never able to properly mourn or accept his brother's death. His mind, while never explicitly stated, is left pondering the great tragedy. By Holden's own admission, Allie was a much better person. It stands to reason he'd be unconsciously asking himself, "Why was it Allie and not me that died?" The aforementioned grief and unconscious questioning is dogging everything that he does. The entire world has lost its purpose; nothing makes sense anymore.

When you read Catcher after having loss someone close to you or having become the victim of some horrific tragedy that you haven't completely reconciled with, the novel takes on a life of its own and Holden becomes that true friend, the one that understands what you are dealing with, that you probably didn't realize you needed in the first place.

Just my two cents.

[higs]

I was completely obsessed with the book and used to carry a copy with me everywhere. (no jokes)

Obviously I identified heavily with Holden as a teenager, as i got older (which is quite recently I'm only 18 ) I was able to understand it from a more objective point of view. It's about growing up and wanting to remain a child, Holden loves children because they aren't "phony" they do and say whatever they feel. The reason the book resonates so deeply with teenagers is because they're all having to come to terms with becoming an adult and entering society with all it's pointless rules and responsibilities. The funny/sad thing is that you can see Holden struggling against doing all the phony things he hates so much yet unable to not do them (he still shakes hands and says "glad to have met you" to that guy in the bar, he doesn't accuse the guy of stealing his gloves when he did, he only wears his cap the wrong way round when no one is looking amongst some examples)

To be honest, I think I will always carry the same angst/existential crisis stuff that Holden displays, because that's the kind of person I am, but as an adult you sort of learn to forget about it and just "get on with stuff"

The funny thing is, and I think it's what the book is saying as well, is that this state of angst is somehow better or more "noble" than just forgetting about it? Like Holden, I hate the idea of just becoming another "phony", I hate the idea of losing this angst, even if it's a crappy feeling.

Hmmm... *re-reads post* maybe I am still a teenager


Anyway, agreed it's awsome on so many levels, it's funny as well, i love the scene with the taxi driver when he asks "where do the ducks go?"

You should read Salinger's other stuff, he's got a bunch of short stories with the same vibe to them as Catcher which are awesome

[higs]

Originally Posted by higs

I was completely obsessed with the book and used to carry a copy with me everywhere. (no jokes)

I never tried to kill John Lennon though, I swear

[mastermind23]

One of the worst books hailed 'amazing' and 'a classic' that I've ever read. I found it pointless, superficial, boring and trivial.

[eagor]

i didn't like it...it just wasn't interesting

[higs]

[MENTION=6100]eagor[/MENTION] Wrong. and wtf leave my mother's cookies you bastard

[Distant]

Spoiler alert! Though I assume there are plenty of spoilers in this thread all ready.

Spoiler:

Cather in the Rye is about a young boy who sees everyone around himself as fakes, phonies who act different than what they are, for practical purposes or for social manipulation. Holden doesn't realize that he himself is a phony, when he deceives the stubborn women in the bar and when he fails to confront the girl he is fond of, rationalizing to himself that "you have to be in the right mood for these things.

However, what Mark Chapman unfortunately missed, was the symbolism behind when in the end of the book Holden takes off his red hat and gives it to his sister. He realizes that he is as fake as everyone else and grows up, leaving his job of complaining about falseness to his sister. That bastard.

[TheHanarchy]

I agree, it is good.


A lot of books are written with characters merely meant to drive a well-designed plot.

J.D Salinger's characters are written to be more important than the plot.
It's easier to love his characters if you have felt what they feel. Disenchantment with the world and society. Confusion with religion. Deep depression, and mental breakdowns. Loss of innocence. These are things I believe J.D. Salinger went through himself, and if you've gone through these, the books tend to touch a deeper nerve.

It's comforting to know that you aren't alone in intellectual and existential crisis, and that's part of the appeal of these books.

[-H-]

What is your opinion of catcher in the rye?

[LarsMac]

I wasn't overly impressed with it when I read it. That was a long time ago.
I thought Caulfield was a Whiny Preppy Boy who should have spent some time on the farm with us.

[Trebuchet]

I had to read it in high school and didn't like it at all. I also thought Holden was whiny and I couldn't relate to him or even bring myself to care about him. But then, I generally don't enjoy angsty stuff.

Lots of people love it, though. Different things speak to different people.

A book I did like, that might appeal to fans of Salinger, was Magic by William Goldman (author of the Princess Bride). It isn't exactly a coming of age story, but it is about a young man with a lot of angst trying to sort out his troubled life.

[yogurtexpress]

INFJ?

[Duxwing]

Originally Posted by yogurtexpress

INFJ?

No, INFP+bipolar disorder: He has massive mood swings (bipolar) and his ideals are constantly disappointed (INFP).

-Duxwing

[yogurtexpress]

ya but the INFJ is a protector and he wants to be the catcher in the rye. INFJs have ideals too, they're just known as practical idealists (which is shown in his attempt to wipe off the "fuck you"s, an INFP would just cry about it)

[Duxwing]

Originally Posted by yogurtexpress

ya but the INFJ is a protector and he wants to be the catcher in the rye. INFJs have ideals too, they're just known as practical idealists (which is shown in his attempt to wipe off the "fuck you"s, an INFP would just cry about it)

Hmm, interesting. I never thought of it that way.

-Duxwing