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Old 6th-October-2008, 12:22 AM   Fedayeen's time 5th-October-2008, 04:22 PM    #1
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Default INTP vs INTJ

What are the main characteristic differences between the two? I know that INTJs tend to be more of the schemers, but what else?

I used to think with out a doubt I was INTP now I think I'm leaning more towards INTJ
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Old 6th-October-2008, 04:56 AM   Ermine's time 5th-October-2008, 09:56 PM    #2
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

Well, I've been on www.intjforum.com and it was very telling. You can go ahead and see for yourself. I think the biggest distinguishing characteristics are that they are very firm in what they believe, and that there must be a solution to every problem, while INTPs are more content to speculate. They also tend to be masterful in one or two fields rather than attempting to be some sort of renaissance man/woman like the INTP.
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Old 6th-October-2008, 05:56 AM   flow's time 5th-October-2008, 11:56 PM    #3
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

Exactly. I actually have an account on the INTJforum and sometimes post. They tend to be somewhat despairing with a lot of their judgments, almost like they take information in negatively, where as we seem to take it in positively. Hmmm..
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Old 6th-October-2008, 07:43 AM   zxc's time 6th-October-2008, 05:43 PM    #4
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

My father is an INTJ (according to an online test), and he agrees, althuogh I'm not sure. If he's anyone to go by, then INTJs are more practical, realistic, driven, rigid, and slightly more closed-minded (though much more open-minded than most people). He has less interests, though he is knowledgeable/good at everything he does (like INTPs). We have a similar sense of humour, and like to make fun of the irrationality of the people and events around us. He *seems* extraverted, but he says that he's introverted (and he would know better than myself...). We're very much alike, but with some major differences that I can't quite fully identify. Overall however, the biggest differences seem to be a greater emphasis on 'success' and pragmatism.

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Old 6th-October-2008, 03:15 PM   Agent Intellect's time 6th-October-2008, 10:15 AM    #5
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

my dad is INTJ. i think practical is a good word to describe how he is. he's definitely interested in logic the way an INTP is, but its more about practical, down to earth logic then the highly abstract theoretical logic, even though (unlike my ISFJ mom) he'll actually be interested if i talk about the more abstract things. but, like someone said, he's also quite set in his ways about things, being a staunch democrat/atheist, has a strong aversion to technology (still doesn't own a cell phone, rarely uses a computer) and always the skeptic, where INTP's seem to have a little more openness to at least explore new ideas, even if they don't accept them.
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Old 6th-October-2008, 08:20 PM   Decaf's time 6th-October-2008, 12:20 PM    #6
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

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Overall however, the biggest differences seem to be a greater emphasis on 'success' and pragmatism.
Well said. The most clear difference between INTPs and INTJs to me is definitely pragmatism (and by extension, success). INTPs are theoretical perfectionists wanting to understand every subject that interests them. INTJs are theoretical masterminds, using their understanding as a means to creatively solve every problem that interests them. If such a problem exists, the INTJ can focus on a subject long after the subject matter has been memorized. On the contrary, INTPs often find themselves giving up on problems because the approach to solving it has become boring. But on the flip side an INTP can roll with the punches when it comes to a problem who's dimensions are constantly changing as long as the fundmentals invigorate us.

On the flip side, when the problem is not easily visible, or too immense, an INTJ can feel discouraged and lack any motivation to develop the skills necessary. INTPs will attempt to solve the problem simply because they see value in the process of trying, at least until they determine that they are no longer growing from the effort. This is why INTJs are often better at achieving success and INTPs are often dreaming of reinventing a better world. They both want both of those things, but a lack of patience and motivation often prevents each type from fully exploring the other's domain.
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Old 6th-October-2008, 09:13 PM   Agent Intellect's time 6th-October-2008, 04:13 PM    #7
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

This seems like a decent description of INTJ.

these are some things that certainly ring true about my INTJ dad:

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However, their primary interest is not understanding a concept, but rather applying that concept in a useful way. Unlike the INTP, they do not follow an idea as far as they possibly can, seeking only to understand it fully. INTJs are driven to come to conclusions about ideas. Their need for closure and organization usually requires that they take some action.
Quote:
The INTJ's interest in dealing with the world is to make decisions, express judgments, and put everything that they encounter into an understandable and rational system. Consequently, they are quick to express judgments. Often they have very evolved intuitions, and are convinced that they are right about things. Unless they complement their intuitive understanding with a well-developed ability to express their insights, they may find themselves frequently misunderstood. In these cases, INTJs tend to blame misunderstandings on the limitations of the other party, rather than on their own difficulty in expressing themselves. This tendency may cause the INTJ to dismiss others input too quickly, and to become generally arrogant and elitist.
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INTJs have a tremendous amount of ability to accomplish great things. They have insight into the Big Picture, and are driven to synthesize their concepts into solid plans of action.
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Old 7th-October-2008, 12:00 AM   stercusaccidit's time 7th-October-2008, 12:00 AM    #8
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

Huh. My dad is an INTJ too. How odd. My mom always said we were really similar-- she's an INFP. We both hate sharing our feelings. We're both ultra-logical. But while I'm really disorganized and messy, he's a neat freak.

Other differences:

Quote:
Consequently, they are quick to express judgments. Often they have very evolved intuitions, and are convinced that they are right about things. Unless they complement their intuitive understanding with a well-developed ability to express their insights, they may find themselves frequently misunderstood. In these cases, INTJs tend to blame misunderstandings on the limitations of the other party, rather than on their own difficulty in expressing themselves. This tendency may cause the INTJ to dismiss others input too quickly, and to become generally arrogant and elitist.
Definitely true. When I argue, I rant. I go on and on and on, because I really want the other person to see their logical errors. That whole "provider of clarity" thing really rings true for me. But my dad... He states his opinion as fact, and that's it. If you disagree, you're mistaken, and there's no point in trying to argue with you. He just dismisses you. He also never apologizes. Why should he? He's always right.

Quote:
INTJs have a tremendous amount of ability to accomplish great things. They have insight into the Big Picture, and are driven to synthesize their concepts into solid plans of action.
Yeah... I know my flaws. I'm disorganized. I procrastinate and my mind tends to wander off to other things while I'm in the middle of a task. I'm supposed to be writing an essay on Crime and Punishment, and instead I'm reading Wikipedia articles on Autism or parrots (yes, parrots) or superhero powers, or I'm perusing their list of hobbies to see if there's anything there that I might like to try. I think I'm CONSIDERABLY more creative than my dad (don't know if that's an INTP trait, because I'm kind of borderline ENTP, and they are the "inventors") and I think I'm a bit more open-minded, but he's got one area of focus: physics. And he can actually focus on it, and not go off to write a short story inspired by magical realism and pre-Grimms fairy tales (in which Myers Briggs typing is cleverly used to determine character personalities) or get distracted by a book on Czech history.

We both like science fiction, though.
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Old 7th-October-2008, 12:22 AM   Fedayeen's time 6th-October-2008, 04:22 PM    #9
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

Thanks for all the responses. Below are things that someone posted that sounded very true to how I am with my own responses in bold.


They tend to be somewhat despairing with a lot of their judgments, almost like they take information in negatively,

like to make fun of the irrationality of the people and events around us.

when the problem is not easily visible, or too immense, an INTJ can feel discouraged and lack any motivation to develop the skills necessary

However, their primary interest is not understanding a concept, but rather applying that concept in a useful way. Unlike the INTP, they do not follow an idea as far as they possibly can, seeking only to understand it fully. INTJs are driven to come to conclusions about ideas. Their need for closure and organization usually requires that they take some action.

Unless they complement their intuitive understanding with a well-developed ability to express their insights, they may find themselves frequently misunderstood. In these cases, INTJs tend to blame misunderstandings on the limitations of the other party, rather than on their own difficulty in expressing themselves.
I do a combination. I blame myself for lack of being able to properly express myself, but I also blame others for not being able to see things they way I do.


INTJs have a tremendous amount of ability to accomplish great things. They have insight into the Big Picture, and are driven to synthesize their concepts into solid plans of action.




One question I have though. It seems the main difference is practical versus theoretical, so where do you draw the line between practical and theoretical? I often take concepts most people see as theoretical and apply them in a practical manner. Does that mean that since most people consider it theoretical that it is indeed that, or since it is being applied practically it is that.

I'm starting to think i'm much more of an INTJ then I did before.
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Old 7th-October-2008, 07:16 AM   Dazi's time 6th-October-2008, 11:16 PM    #10
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

I thought I was an INTJ until researching INTP. INTP suits me a lot more; I like thinking about logic more than using it to find quick ends, I love riddles and games, I doubt myself a lot, I over look details constantly...ect.
And yet, and yet... There are little things within the category of INTJ that fit really, really well.
Things like wanting to master skills and perfectionism rather than jumping through hoops, curiosity...
Can't people be INTP and INTJ?
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Old 7th-October-2008, 11:18 AM   stercusaccidit's time 7th-October-2008, 11:18 AM    #11
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

Yep. INTX. Best of both worlds.

I mostly relate to INTP, but there are also ENTP traits which seem to describe me. I don't think anyone is 100% one thing.
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Old 7th-October-2008, 03:03 PM   loveofreason's time 8th-October-2008, 01:03 AM    #12
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

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Originally Posted by stercusaccidit View Post
Yep. INTX. Best of both worlds.

I mostly relate to INTP, but there are also ENTP traits which seem to describe me. I don't think anyone is 100% one thing.
Before Decaf pounces on these comments, take a look at the XXXX thread.


I have had the curious experience of living in close quarters with an INTJ, in fact I still do. If 'live' can be so loosely applied.

The initial similarities between us revealed themselves as entirely superficial.

We cannot, and I doubt we ever will, understand one another. We are two of the world's worst communicators. Attempting to exchange information is like pulling teeth with no anaesthetic.

And from my perspective he approaches everything back to front; we can be given the same problem and same facts yet draw the opposite conclusions/solutions. Actually, I find he doesn't want to deal with nearly as many variables as I take into account. He's simply not interested in half my sources of information.

He stops thinking about something when he has the answer that suits his purposes, I keep thinking.

He is incredibly rigid, my opinions change like the weather.

He wants routine, I wish every day could be an adventure.

hmm. I can't believe I ever thought INTPs and INTJs were similar.
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Old 7th-October-2008, 06:10 PM   fullerene's time 7th-October-2008, 01:10 PM    #13
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

that's so very true... I really think most of the personality things that say INTP/INTJ are similar are written by people who aren't INTP (or INTPs with limited experience with them). When I was in middle school, I had a friend (who I was confident was INTJ the moment I took the test myself and read the profiles for both, and who actually tested INTJ too) who I thought saw things exactly how I did. I thought we were incredibly similar, except that he liked to have things a bit more clean-cut.

As we grew up in high school, though, a lot of the same types of problems developed. As long as our conversations stayed on science or sci-fi or technology or whatever, we were cool... but if they ever turned towards people or relationships or perceptions or motives (read: when I grew up a little), I felt like I was talking to a brick wall. "Not interested in half my sources of information" is a perfect description. I think that's Inuition's benefit over Thinking... the ability to see the connections that aren't immediately apparant. As our information-gathering function, I think we're more prone to pull in a wider spectrum of information than they are... like you said, to try to see all angles rather than stopping as soon as we have a solution.
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Old 7th-October-2008, 08:17 PM   Decaf's time 7th-October-2008, 12:17 PM    #14
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

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Do I really pounce? OK, I suppose I do. Anyway, well said
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Old 8th-October-2008, 12:14 AM   Wisp's time 7th-October-2008, 07:14 PM    #15
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

I love studying INTJs. They are, perhaps, the type I am most fascinated with. They are so like us, yet so different. That said, I would probably be able to come to an understanding with an INTJ, and not compromise my own inner integrity. If the INTJ wasn't rigid as a pole, as they sometimes are.
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Old 8th-October-2008, 06:17 AM   Kidege's time 8th-October-2008, 12:17 AM    #16
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

I like INTPness and I think the profile suits me pretty well, but Similarminds insists I'm a J. By just a few points, but still a J.

So I like having solutions and can appreciate practicality. I also like applying, to an extent, what I learn. But I still hate having everything set in stone and would be happy handling mostly theories.

Apparently Js can close themselves to facts once they've made up their mind. I don't like that trait. Plus, for some reason, I associate P ness with happiness.

This may sound silly, but can I simply choose to be a P?
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Old 20th-October-2008, 04:18 AM   Chronomar's time 20th-October-2008, 04:18 AM    #17
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I would say that INTJ and INTP are the two science types. One is a little too closed minded and the other is a little too "whimisical" in their thinking. I think that all INTJs have INTP moments and all INTPs have INTJ moments, but what you count as your personality is what you are most of the time. My dad is an INTJ (same as a few of you, I see..., kinda freaky), and he is pretty much like me, except I am more interested in a broad range of stuff and specialize in science, whereas he is more just one dimension, one field of science, and little else. He is more of a studier, though I study too, and I am more of a "what if..." person, more of a solution finder. So I would say that INTPs have a little more engineer in them.
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Old 20th-October-2008, 05:01 PM   Jordan~'s time 20th-October-2008, 05:01 PM    #18
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

I have no INTJs in the family (Dad's an ISTP); but I do have one as a close friend, though not one I know in person. Perhaps I've browbeaten him into compromise, or perhaps he's too logical to deny when I'm right, but I can seem to make him concede points to me. On the subject of god, for example, I can strip away his concept of god until it may as well be a force; but he still insists that there is a god. Or on morality, I can convince him that my statement of what constitutes a moral act is correct, but he'll always modify it so that it leaves room for killing to eat. Perhaps debating has broken down that INTJ rigidity somewhat. He is more oriented towards taking action and the practical application of knowledge, certainly, than I am. As to success... well, he sees success as helping people, I think.
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Old 21st-October-2008, 03:41 AM   Decaf's time 20th-October-2008, 07:41 PM    #19
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

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I would say that INTJ and INTP are the two science types. One is a little too closed minded and the other is a little too "whimisical" in their thinking. I think that all INTJs have INTP moments and all INTPs have INTJ moments, but what you count as your personality is what you are most of the time.
NOTE: This isn't directed at you, I'm just quoting you to raise some questions and provide some structure to my post.

That's spectrum thinking, which is par for the course in psychology today, but doesn't fit Type Theory. Your "INTJ" moments aren't INTJ moments. They're INTP moments that come from your non-dominant function.

Maybe it was just a bad choice of words, but I don't think INTPs are whimsical at all in their thinking. They can be whimsical in their approach to the outside world, but most of us take our mental constructs very seriously. Believe it or not, but we tend to take our constructs more seriously than INTJs. The difference is that due to our loyalty to the logical basis of our construct, it is flexible depending on what information is available.

I don't believe INTJs are necessarily close minded either, but that's a harder case to make. Part of the reason for that is that they extravert their thinking, which means when they're talking about their analysis, it sounds like they're speaking absolutes. I'm sure most INTJs are frustrated that others think they are unwilling to change their minds. They just need a reason. The other part that unfortunately adds to their reputation is that their dominant function is introverted intuition. That means that their information gathering function is turned inward, into the arena of connections and correlations. That is a wonderfully useful tool for a scientist to have, but because it is not open for the public, people don't see it unless they try to look past the noise in the system or ask the INTJ to describe what its like.

The P/J dichotomy brings up more hard feelings than any of the other dichotomys (though T/F surpasses it in controversy). Its very similar to the "people are stupid" political argument where anecdotal evidense in submitted as a means of proving the existense of "hard-nose Js" and "slacker Ps". Those are both stereotypes that we buy into even for ourselves often but describe very little about us. P without J is spineless, J without P is blind. We need both and we have both. Sometimes we get in a funk where our lives aren't giving us all the psychological nurishment we need, so we cope by belligerantly pursuing a specific form of control.

For example, school children living in a J-centric environment often become slackers or rebels because they are not otherwise allowed to exhibit their P function in a productive manner. So the question is, does this affect J children as well? Yes is does, though it does it in an introverted way instead of an extraverted way. It means the damage caused by rules and regulations burying people is only more visible with Ps.

I would continue but I feel like this may be a never ending subject.
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Old 7th-November-2008, 10:59 AM   Tiger's time 7th-November-2008, 08:59 PM    #20
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Originally Posted by loveofreason View Post

The initial similarities between us revealed themselves as entirely superficial.

We cannot, and I doubt we ever will, understand one another. We are two of the world's worst communicators. Attempting to exchange information is like pulling teeth with no anaesthetic.

And from my perspective he approaches everything back to front; we can be given the same problem and same facts yet draw the opposite conclusions/solutions. Actually, I find he doesn't want to deal with nearly as many variables as I take into account. He's simply not interested in half my sources of information.

He stops thinking about something when he has the answer that suits his purposes, I keep thinking.

He is incredibly rigid, my opinions change like the weather.

He wants routine, I wish every day could be an adventure.

hmm. I can't believe I ever thought INTPs and INTJs were similar.
that's bang on. my father is intj. intj and intp live in two different dimensions of the same universe.
i find that because he keeps drawing conclusions from everything, he's excluding important information and assuming too much hence he's acutally ussually wrong - dspite all his competence and confidence.
he's like sherlock holmes but he gets eveything wrong, lol, but don't get me wrong my envy of his intellect is cripling.

intps want the truth, intj want a conclusion.

i used to test as intj. thats the problem with the tests and why you have to investigate you mbti personality indepth. they ask you how you behave just chekc off i/e, s/n, t/f, p/j, and dont concider the effect the combination of letters will have. For example, an estj testing as an istj instead because (in my experience) estj is one of least open extraverts. true story.

here's a good question, are you a leader/controller or in the visionary and advisor? i once told my paretns when i was 14 that i had sidekick syndrome, together with a frontman (extraverted person) i would create a kind of unsymetrical friendship where the frontman would get all the glamour and reap the benefits of everything i had to offer... sigh...
my intj father (apparently) doesn't have any comprehension of shyness either, that or he just has no patients for it, from this i get that shyness in more of an intp than intj thing. funny that, when we're with people we know and are comfortable to be ourselves with, im the one that ends up being more fun to be with.

you may feel intj when your simply taking more responsibilty and/or chooisng to plan further ahead in the future. i used to always test as intj but it never really sat well with me and i kept testing myself, once comming up as infp. it wasn't until i read the description of the intp did i realise which one i was, since then ive tested as intp in every test which goes to show that your answers on the tests can be biased for many reasons. mbti isn't everything in measuring whats going on in a persons head, its probably very little although i wish psycoligcal models took each other into account, i used to think i a had personality disorders until i learned i was just another intp, and only registered as a misfit in society because i im not common enough. its impossible for someone to live their life by someone else's criteria and be happy.
gee that brings me to another intp/intj point, im lacking against my fathers critera (probably only a B- ,i'm just missing the point, while he's given himself an A) and he's lacking against mine (visa versa, its him who misses the point), he's just the one to take initiative and try and 'fix me' or point out my 'problems'. he cant comphrend any reason for my spontenousness or my scatter brained garble, he brushes it off with disdain. he only wants facts.

i think having qualities of another preference is only an advantage. my intp pride gets in the way when i try to help myself sometimes... just stick with intx to avoid that... although i really do believe every person is only one type but there are too many other things that can dtermine how someone will behave and unless they're all known and understood, one's mbti personality could be a mystery. there's also the difficulty at trying to look at your own mind, as freuds? saying goes - when writing a autobiography the truth is unaccesable.
it also ahrd to tell the difference between two types with only one letter difference, i feel i'm close to istp,infp,entp and intj but of course im intp.

*slaps self 'you were meant to stop writing ages ago, shut up'*

ok

*slaps self again*
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Old 7th-November-2008, 11:33 AM   zxc's time 7th-November-2008, 09:33 PM    #21
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

Wow, a lot of us have INTJ fathers!
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Old 7th-November-2008, 12:21 PM   loveofreason's time 7th-November-2008, 10:22 PM    #22
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

Perhaps the quintessential distant father figure is INTJ in tone?

A lot of what Tiger said sounds familiar to me, though I do have a little trouble reading your posts Tiger!

Perhaps it's the self-certainty of INTJness that crosses me wrong. I like to think that most everything is open to question, most especially the self. Perhaps it is our inner chaos of self coupled with exacting mind that is so confusing to the INTJ, for whom the mind is intuitive yet trusted 'chaos' while the self is exacting and precise.
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Old 7th-November-2008, 07:32 PM   EloquentBohemian's time 7th-November-2008, 02:32 PM    #23
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

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I have had the curious experience of living in close quarters with an INTJ, in fact I still do. If 'live' can be so loosely applied.
I missed this the first time I read this thread.
I am involved with an INTJ presently (almost 4 years) and have noticed curious changes. The relationship has transitioned from one of intimacy to one of more semi-detached companionship.

Quote:
The initial similarities between us revealed themselves as entirely superficial.
The more I reflect upon the beginnings of the relationship, the more I agree with this. What initially drew us together was the ability to communicate and discuss various topics of mutual interest. Over time, as these topics were exhausted, discussions grew further apart and were replaced by more mundane subjects. My explorations grew more varied and information about these explorations, though interesting in themselves to her, were, for the most part, never pursued.
Not that she never explored, rather there were logical extentions from where she was which required exploration. I, on the other hand, would wander down some dark alley because it had attracted my attention.

Quote:
We cannot, and I doubt we ever will, understand one another. We are two of the world's worst communicators. Attempting to exchange information is like pulling teeth with no anaesthetic.
Again, I see this occuring with greater frequency. Where I will return to a subject with additional information to augment the current status of the subject, she has already defined it to her satisfaction and logged it somewhere. She has acquired a relatively set amount of subjects and anything outside those parameters is inconsequential.

Our libraries differ. Where hers contains books on a set of subjects which interest her and she adds primarily to this set with little deviance, mine contains a wide variety of subject matter to which I am continually adding different, yet related subjects which in turn suggest other subjects. I have no problem relating two or more of these subjects to each other in multiple combinations, whereas, at times, she ses no connnection or relevance between some to others.

Also, I am at the public library constantly (how many of us know librarians by first name and know what section to find what subject in?), borrowing books on various subjects, some to read, some to merely peruse, yet she prefers to purchase books at bookstores and invariably haunts only particular sections.

Quote:
And from my perspective he approaches everything back to front; we can be given the same problem and same facts yet draw the opposite conclusions/solutions.
Ditto, in many cases. Where I see a problem from multiple angles and can conjure various avenues regarding solution, she considers one, and possibly one other, which is optimal and rejects all other possibilities and facts leading to other solutions.

Quote:
Actually, I find he doesn't want to deal with nearly as many variables as I take into account. He's simply not interested in half my sources of information.
Driving somewhere is an apt analogy. If it is a re-occuring destination, she will usually follow the same route and contend with whatever traffic conditions are present. I will have mentally mapped out several alternate routes which I can choose from depending on multiple variables such as time of day, etc. and can adapt to another route if there are inhibitions to the chosen route.

Quote:
He stops thinking about something when he has the answer that suits his purposes, I keep thinking.
She has stated on more than one occasion that I "tend to think things to death" and rarely take action unless pressed.
I see the differences as I being much more interested in the theoretical and whatever anomalies arise, where she seeks a solution and implements that solution without hesitation. Additional facts/info rarely deter her resolve.

Though, in contrast, when she becomes stalemated in something, I can view the problem and discover other solutions which circumvent the stalemate.

Quote:
He is incredibly rigid, my opinions change like the weather.
A rolling stone in contrast to a leaf in the wind.

Quote:
He wants routine, I wish every day could be an adventure.
Heh Don Quixote and Sancho Panza. Calvin and Hobbes.
This is probably one of the greater alterations in our relationship. Mutual exploration was evident at first, but now my explorations are more solitary.

Quote:
hmm. I can't believe I ever thought INTPs and INTJs were similar.
Being relatively new to the investigation of MBTI, though I have read about it and took a couple of tests before, I am comparing the defintions and qualities only now. A few of the differences which seem to hold little significance when in print, are becoming obvious. Some of these differences are becoming barriers.

The one aspect INTP and INTJ share, the need for solitude, also seems to be a dividing factor. We each have 'offices' with copious amounts of computer equipment (who woulda guessed). She focuses on one or possibly two themes and has multiple windows or tabs concerning them on both screens. In contrast, I have multiple tabs/windows which may initiate at one subject, but carry off into branches and streams into multiple subjects which have piqued my interest and may relate to something I hve explored at some other time in the past which I bring up and relate to that which I am exploring presently.
She will be intensely focused on what is present and concerns her to the point where any distraction is an invasion and an annoyance. Though for me, a distraction may also be an invasion, I must explore that distraction to discover its source.

I think there may be compatabilities on intellectual levels and possibly a few others, but from personal experience, this combination of INTP/INTJ has inherent difficulties which may lead to a reduction in quality of the relationship.
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Old 7th-November-2008, 09:55 PM   Agent Intellect's time 7th-November-2008, 04:55 PM    #24
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

besides the part about wanting adventure, i completely agree (i enjoy mental adventure, anyway, if thats what was meant). my girlfriend is INFJ, and some of these points seem to be the same with her. when we first started talking, we'd stay up all night talking about all sorts of interesting and philosophical subjects, but as time has gone on, we both kind of withdrew back into ourselves (both being introverts) and now conversation is usually pretty superficial (although it doesn't help that she's a middle school teacher and always incredibly busy/worn out).
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Old 8th-November-2008, 10:43 AM   Tiger's time 8th-November-2008, 08:43 PM    #25
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[quote=loveofreason;24747]
A lot of what Tiger said sounds familiar to me, though I do have a little trouble reading your posts Tiger!
quote]

ah, sorry. sleep deprived.
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Old 8th-November-2008, 04:47 PM   Jesin's time 8th-November-2008, 11:47 AM    #26
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Wow, a lot of us have INTJ fathers!
Ooh! Me too!
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Old 8th-November-2008, 06:38 PM   Gorgrim's time 8th-November-2008, 07:38 PM    #27
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Yeah, me too i think though Ididnt test it it seems likely
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Old 8th-November-2008, 09:40 PM   Jesin's time 8th-November-2008, 04:40 PM    #28
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Yeah, me too i think though Ididnt test it it seems likely
Actually, neither did I. While I'm not entirely sure he's an INTJ, all signs point that way.
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Old 8th-November-2008, 10:23 PM   Agent Intellect's time 8th-November-2008, 05:23 PM    #29
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i'm almost certain my dad is INTJ, but i also wouldn't be surprised if he was ISTJ.
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Old 8th-November-2008, 10:39 PM   Auburn's time 8th-November-2008, 02:40 PM    #30
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could there be a nature-vs-nurture correlation here?
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Old 8th-November-2008, 10:56 PM   Agent Intellect's time 8th-November-2008, 05:56 PM    #31
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if thats the case, i'd probably put my money on nature. because of my dad being INTJ, he's always been very aloof and "hands-off" with his parenting. both of us have always respected each others space. my mom, on the other hand, is ISFJ (and she actually took the test) and was always trying to get me to be more "feeling". she takes any lack of emotion on my part personally and has always tried to be her types namesake, a guardian. i can still remember when i was like 8 years old i watched my first rated R movie with a friend, my dad came in the room and says "oh cool, did they get to the part where...." and when my mom found out, she freaked out lol. thats a good example of the differences between my parents styles of "parenting".
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Old 8th-November-2008, 11:19 PM   nihilen.'s time 9th-November-2008, 01:19 AM    #32
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Damn, my dad is INTJ too. That can't be a coincidence now.

Everything I thought of have been said practically, similar in the essence, but the opposites in details.
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Old 9th-November-2008, 01:45 AM   Decaf's time 8th-November-2008, 05:45 PM    #33
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I'm the progeny of an ISTP dad and an ENTJ mom. Sorry to buck the trend.
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Old 9th-November-2008, 02:31 AM   Jesin's time 8th-November-2008, 09:31 PM    #34
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Look, everybody, it's a counterexample! Yay!
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Old 9th-November-2008, 03:27 AM   EloquentBohemian's time 8th-November-2008, 10:27 PM    #35
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I'm almost certain that me mum was a hamster and me papa smelt of elderberries, though me mum, she could have been a witch 'cause she weighed about the same as a duck and was made of wood and before I was born me mum and me dad moved to a swamp and everyone said me dad was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but he built one all the same, just to show them, but it sank into the swamp, so he built a second one, but that sank into the swamp, so, me dad, he built a third, and that burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp, but the fourth one stayed up and then I was born, though I don't think me dad was an INTJ.

(...another random M.P. interjection)
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Old 9th-November-2008, 04:51 AM   Decaf's time 8th-November-2008, 08:51 PM    #36
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But then of course INTJs are not migratory.
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Old 9th-November-2008, 10:32 PM   Kumori's time 9th-November-2008, 10:32 PM    #37
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

My dad is INTJ and my mum is ESFJ >.<. Opposites attract, much?
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Old 10th-November-2008, 04:47 AM   flow's time 9th-November-2008, 10:47 PM    #38
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my dad is an INTP, and my mom is an ESFJ... INTJs could be carried! But no, I'm not suggesting a 5 ounce bird could carry an INTJ.
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Old 10th-November-2008, 08:49 AM   EloquentBohemian's time 10th-November-2008, 03:49 AM    #39
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INTJ: You are all individuals!

Mob: Yes, we are all individuals!

INTP: I'm not.


...this morning, shortly after 11 o’clock, comedy struck this little INTP forum in Dibbley road. Sudden, violent comedy.


:(<------------ I think this guy escaped from the Loser thread


<------------ and now the CIA are after him
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Old 10th-November-2008, 10:00 AM   Tiger's time 10th-November-2008, 08:00 PM    #40
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[quote=Agent Intellect;24955]dad being INTJ ... my mom, on the other hand, is ISFJ[quote]
JIMMINY-JILIKERS! , i guess those two must really attract.

"Perhaps the quintessential distant father figure is INTJ in tone?"
You're suggsting that we're forgiving our a**hole fathers as simple intj. hmm, interesting thought.
intj is the quinessential distant father, that's certain.

you can have a**hole without intj but not intj without a**hole. a**hole has the same impact on me whoever and whereever it comes from. but thats a little besides the point that im never going to get around too.

maybe there's something genetic - just to bust you all 'its nurture' people - because personally i think that the way you're brain is wired is determined in the womb including premature births (the wiring wasn't finished, haha). anything else is just psycological. OOOH, so some of us only 'think' we're intp but really we're esfp who were conditioned to the intj criteria of how we should be. ureika!
just kidding but my dad would seriously do that if he could.
anyone here estranged from the father from birth to later find him and realise he's intj? nope? oh well, mystery remains.

and eloquent bohemian, that rolling stone, leaf in the wind thing is quite accurate.
sigh, i love being a leaf in the wind. i wouldn't be anyother way.

and if anyone's thinking my posts are crazy i think its because im dsylexic, i revise them 50 times but instead of fixing errors i only swithc them with new ones and that while my head is swimming. i cant really differentiate what written with whats in ym head so it may make sense to me but not to anyone else.
aplolgies if this is the case.
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Old 26th-November-2008, 11:42 PM   Chimera's time 26th-November-2008, 06:43 PM    #41
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Default Re: INTP vs INTJ

_________
____________

My father is IXTJ, My mother is INFX.

Also, the one person in the world I'm closest to is INTJ. I read somewhere that INTPs can have an almost naive affection towards a select few people, and that's certainly true in this case. We have a friendship so close it scares me sometimes. He's very protective and nurturing toward me. Apparently we act differently toward each other than we do around other people...from what I've heard from others, he can be a huge jerk, and I definitely know I'm not vulnerable around everyone else. He's even told me before that he treats me differently than other people, but he doesn't know why. We've only known each other for a year, and there was a period when he had to go away (his absence devastated me...), but we're incredibly close.

Sorry to throw a wrench into the whole "INTP and INTJ don't mix" thing. Maybe we're just an anomaly, I don't know. I got him to take a typing test yesterday, and he did get INTJ, though the N/S was less than 20% apart, if I remember correctly.
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Old 27th-November-2008, 06:05 AM   Fedayeen's time 26th-November-2008, 10:06 PM    #42
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_________
____________

My father is IXTJ, My mother is INFX.

Also, the one person in the world I'm closest to is INTJ. I read somewhere that INTPs can have an almost naive affection towards a select few people, and that's certainly true in this case. We have a friendship so close it scares me sometimes. He's very protective and nurturing toward me. Apparently we act differently toward each other than we do around other people...from what I've heard from others, he can be a huge jerk, and I definitely know I'm not vulnerable around everyone else. He's even told me before that he treats me differently than other people, but he doesn't know why. We've only known each other for a year, and there was a period when he had to go away (his absence devastated me...), but we're incredibly close.

Sorry to throw a wrench into the whole "INTP and INTJ don't mix" thing. Maybe we're just an anomaly, I don't know. I got him to take a typing test yesterday, and he did get INTJ, though the N/S was less than 20% apart, if I remember correctly.
____________
_________

my closest friend is an intj.
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Old 27th-November-2008, 10:05 AM   Gorgrim's time 27th-November-2008, 11:05 AM    #43
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i cant get into contact with them for some reason...
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Old 30th-November-2008, 01:46 PM   del's time 30th-November-2008, 05:47 AM    #44
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All of the INTJs I've known in real life has been through work and school, and the difference in styles when working on projects is pretty apparent.

The INTJs have been very focused on keeping a project on track and developing and following a plan of action. Despite that, they're never very keen on actually implementing the plan and seem to be more comfortable working behind the scenes.

The INTPs are much more focused on the process rather than the result, and are way more accepting and accomodating of new, and sometimes irrelevant, information. They never really adhere to a strict goal, but, if left to their own devices, would just follow whatever is interesting about the project and might end up doing something entirely different.

This is mostly in the context of my experience in a mathematics department at a university.

I always think of the two in terms of what I'd want as a team member. Both INTJs and INTPs are the same in that they don't seem to really want to bother themselves with being in control and managing people and would rather do their own thing researching.

But if I wanted something specific done, I'd give it to a bunch of INTJs and say "Here, see if you can get _____ as a result."

With a group of INTPs, I wouldn't give them an end point to reach, but would just give them a starting point and say something more nebulous, like "Here, consider _____ and see if you can produce something interesting."

There's also huge differences between the Ni/Te dynamic and Ti/Ne.

Ni essentially intuits new meaning from pre-existing information by shifting conceptual perspective. Te then comes in as an objective standard to judge whether or not that perspective is legitimate or not.

Ti, by itself, is much more discerning and reasons from first postulates without thinking outside the context of said postulates. This can produce some wacky but interesting results -- one example I can think of is non-Euclidean geometry, which historically was developed by simply rejecting the parallel postulate and logically deducing the consequences; in that case, the "correctness" of rejecting the postulate wasn't judged outside of the system of axioms. To be grounded in reality, INTPs use Ne to give them new information about the "correctness" of their axioms.

But the main feature of Ti/Ne is that things are logically deduced from within a system (Ti) after the postulates have been established or conjectured by integrating new information outside the person (Ne).

Ni/Te gets new information from information they already have by shifting their conceptual viewpoint (Ni), and then rigorously judging it against a procedure or standard test (Te).

Both have their strengths and weaknesses. With a weak Ne, you'll find INTPs who take silly questions like how many angels can dance on the head of a needle seriously; and with a weak Te, you'll find INTJs who will believe anything that they can't disprove.
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Old 27th-December-2008, 03:18 AM   Anticitizen's time 26th-December-2008, 09:18 PM    #45
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I'm pretty sure my father is an INTJ too, so scratch another line on the chalkboard. Weird.
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Old 27th-December-2008, 03:36 AM   Kidege's time 26th-December-2008, 09:36 PM    #46
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My best friend in school was INTJ (I think). She led in all the games and I was happy to let her. Many times we'd just sit quietly solving a puzzle or watching paintings.

The few times she was too judgmental for my tastes I pretended I didn't care about the friendship and she did the same, but we'd end up hanging out again. We were never mushy or emotional. When she lost her temper I just stared at her and waited till she calmed down. She was never supportive of my emotions but she was very supportive of my mind.

So yeah, it can work.
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Old 30th-December-2008, 10:04 PM   EditorOne's time 30th-December-2008, 05:04 PM    #47
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INTJs make excellent editorial writers for newspapers. (The place where the newspaper as a community institution essays on what course to follow to address whatever issue is under discussion.) ((I find it necessary to explain "editorials" more and more these days.))(((I am probably overthinking this.))) In any event, our editorial page editor is a very smart INTJ, and it's one of the reasons I lobbied hard for her to get the job. Bird-dogs each issue until she sees an appropriate pronouncement to make in connection with it. Kind of hard doing that seven times a week, but it seems to work out.


I do editorials sometimes when she's on vacation, but as you can imagine they run to the "isn't this interesting?" kind of observations even when the topic is serial murder....
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Old 30th-December-2008, 11:52 PM   Jesin's time 30th-December-2008, 06:52 PM    #48
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Do I really pounce? OK, I suppose I do.
Or sometimes I pounce on a comment and then hold it down for you until you arrive.

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I do editorials sometimes when she's on vacation, but as you can imagine they run to the "isn't this interesting?" kind of observations even when the topic is serial murder....
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Old 31st-December-2008, 12:21 AM   Da Blob's time 30th-December-2008, 06:21 PM    #49
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Well, I've been on www.intjforum.com and it was very telling. You can go ahead and see for yourself. I think the biggest distinguishing characteristics are that they are very firm in what they believe, and that there must be a solution to every problem, while INTPs are more content to speculate. They also tend to be masterful in one or two fields rather than attempting to be some sort of renaissance man/woman like the INTP.
Yes, I ran into a bandwidth error message for the past few days, so I visited the INTJ forum. They seem to o be rather snobby and lack both imagination and a sense of humor etc...

This forum appears to be highly superior to theirs..
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Old 31st-December-2008, 01:12 AM   Jesin's time 30th-December-2008, 08:12 PM    #50
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Yes, I ran into a bandwidth error message for the past few days, so I visited the INTJ forum. They seem to o be rather snobby and lack both imagination and a sense of humor etc...
That could just be the people on the INTJ forum, rather than INTJs in general. I mean, have you seen INTP Central? I like this place so much better.
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