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Any female INTPs here?

scorpiomover

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I don't have any close friends who are INTP. In fact, I don't have any close friends at all, lol.
Awwww. Just remember, you always have squirrels to be your friends.
 

scorpiomover

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In "real life" social situations I'm the girl in the corner who doesn't talk to anyone unless approached, or I force myself to talk to others if someone else looks like they could use company -only- if its a networking event where you're expected to talk to someone. But I will 99% not initiate conversation in real life unless drunk. Actually, even if drunk with others, I'll be on my phone writing notes to myself about realizations/abstract thoughts, and will need to take bathroom breaks to simply extrapolate.

In group conversations I will be awkwardly quiet and then suddenly jump in with a question or answer the second I have a chance to say something that will be intriguing and unconventional. I try to avoid group conversations as much as possible because it just feels odd.

It was kind of awkward like that in school too - The professor would be talking and following the agenda, and I'll have the urge to say something and it unleashes some controversy or a new train of thought to the point where students would turn to each other as if either questioning it or wanting to talk about it yet the professor would need to address it quickly or move along for the sake of time. In some instances the professor would be elated and compliment me, and then I'd get some sense of validation from injecting refreshing insights into an ultra-boring lecture.

In many cases I forced myself to lead larger groups of people and felt more of an ENTP in an INTP's body.

I've also extensively studied INTP "weaknesses", one of which is, I believe, emotional/social aptitude, which I conditioned myself to try and become accustomed to over the years.
Wow. You sound like you're shy, but also like you've been to university already. How old are you?
 

scorpiomover

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Some men are very thirsty and will message anything that seems female and single.
It sounds like you perceive all men as vampires. Have you been watching a lot of vampire films lately?
 

scorpiomover

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I didn’t send her anything, but to me that sounds a bit nutty.
Sure, if you're not used to a life were people seek you out or hit on you just because of looks or gender. Believe me, if you're not a skeptic as a woman, you'll end up with some creep that takes advantage of you. Just #womanthings

Men might get away easier on that point (?), they don't have to adapt to a life of having to avoid stalkers and other creepy guys who're in it for the abuse. Having to constantly question whether this guy is obsessive and will kill you, or whether he's just nice and loyal.
Yes, men don't need to adapt to such a life.
From the day men are born, they have it rammed down their throats every single second that other people will do all that and much, much worse to a man, any chance they get.
Many men get beaten by their father or older brother every single day, to toughen them up, so that when someone does try to kill them or rape them, they'll be able to withstand the onslaught and fight off their attacker.
Yes, men don't need to adapt to such a life. We're forced to, whether we like it or not. Usually, we don't even get a choice.
 

Minuend

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There is good reason to be skeptical of anyone approaching you seeking an intimate relationship. Probably especially so on the internet. There are also plenty sympathetic reasons to approach someone on the internet in the hopes of finding a mate. Let's not make this black and white.

I don't think Minuend overestimates people's predatory tendencies, but I think (s)he underestimates benevolent tendencies. Loads of people find happy relationships online, and a forum gathering like-minded people seems the place to do it.

Seems like a healthy warning, though, Minuend. I wish more people would talk openly about how shitty humans often are. Then maybe there wouldn't be so many victims, and we could build a society better incentivising moral and empathetic behavior. Long term that could even steer evolution towards a kinder species.
Obviously people will get a certain impression from posts made on a forum vs impression when meeting me RL.

I actually met my bf online, I don't have this idea all opposite gender contact online is a bad thing. It's all situational. My comment had an element of a joke in it, but it's also somewhat real how some will contact anyone revealing themselves to be a woman.

That being said, there's a lot of naivity regarding how some use and manipulate others. A lot of people tend to think the men or women in question are well intended or are otherwise good people. That's how they get you, son

It sounds like you perceive all men as vampires. Have you been watching a lot of vampire films lately?
[/QUOTE]

I didn't' realize how saying "some" came across as meaning EVERY SINGLE ONE. My bad.
 

Marbles

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That being said, there's a lot of naivity regarding how some use and manipulate others. A lot of people tend to think the men or women in question are well intended or are otherwise good people. That's how they get you, son
That is how they get you. Why are good people so eager to fascilitate evil (and before all the good INTPs here have the kneejerk reaction: "there is no absolute good and evil", let's just agree they are practical terms here)? If good people were just more adept at recognising each other, kindness would be a much more effective survival strategy, and humanity might actually evolve into a decent species. Instead kind people tend to squander their time, energy and resources on predators. I think a lot of "good" is just fear mascerading as sympathy. It can be tough to swallow the red pill, see humanity for what it is. Easier to be submissive in the face of evil, and pretend we live on Sesame Street.
 

moody

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If good people were just more adept at recognising each other, kindness would be a much more effective survival strategy, and humanity might actually evolve into a decent species.
I recognize Marbles sound advice!
Just not marbles because that would just be too efficient and decent.
 

ZenRaiden

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Makes me really wonder how different are INTP males and INTP females.
I guess Ill never know. Truth be I admit it would be odd pairing.
What would it be like..... procrastination dating, shared psychosis over social obligation, book and source exchange program, brainstorming sessions trying to figure out who has more complicated relationship with reality.
 

Serac

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Men being scared? Really? You think the world should stop because some people are scared when taking risks? Men and women take risks approaching people, that does not mean you should never be skeptical or question the very basic lack of social norms.

You're asking too much, you're asking for tolerance beyond what is reasonable. You're asking to be tolerant of very obvious red flags, or bad behavior. You're asking to be tolerant of people who have traits highly correlated with a shitty personality.
I guess I realize at this point how meaningless such a conversation is between a male and a female, considering that the issues each of the groups face are completely different, and that these differences will be invisible to the initiated – i.e. about 99% of the population. I've understood for a long time the sort of risks women face with men, and I know that to most men these worries will mean nothing. At the same time, there's practically no women who understand that men cannot have the same passive and risk-averse mindset in these things, because in that case most men's chances of reproduction would drop to about zero.
 

moody

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Makes me really wonder how different are INTP males and INTP females.
I guess Ill never know. Truth be I admit it would be odd pairing.
What would it be like..... procrastination dating, shared psychosis over social obligation, book and source exchange program, brainstorming sessions trying to figure out who has more complicated relationship with reality.
I know a married couple who are both INTPs. I think they've been married over 30 years, met in college and have one kid. They run an inn. They seem pretty happy together whenever I've seen them, but of course I woudn't know all the personal details.
 

scorpiomover

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I didn't' realize how saying "some" came across as meaning EVERY SINGLE ONE. My bad.
It didn't.
Something else you said did:
Pretty much. Some men are very thirsty and will message anything that seems female and single. They also come with a lot of issues.
If the men who are very thirsty will message anything that seems female and single, surely it must be because they drink liquids from vulnerable females, such as their blood, and so seem like vampires.

If the men who are very thirsty will message anything that seems female and single,then the men who are not very thirsty will not message anything that seems female and single (but might message some of them). But since they only differ on being thirsty, and the thirsty ones are vampires, then the non-thirsty ones must also be vampires.

Hence, your words suggests that you think all men are vampires that want to suck women dry of their life energy. The ones who are currently messaging every single female they can on the internet, are the ones who are very thirsty. The other ones are not very thirsty now. But it won't be long until they get thirsty again.

So you seem to have a perception of men as if men either prey on vulnerable women now, or will do soon.

Well, all except for your b/f or crush, who is of course perfect.

I was trying to light-heartedly and subtly point this out to you.
But it seems like you didn't pick up on the reasoning.
 

Adaire

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Scorpio & Minuend

If you want yet another angry gender politics thread go make one and fight over there. Enough derailing.

Also Scorpio... you really need to drop the vampire metaphor friend. It's not doing your point any favors.
 

Animekitty

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I wonder if INTP females and INFJ males get along? I was aware that the pairings for INTP males and INFJ females was compatible. But I do not really know how that compatibility is expressed. Can someone tell me the viewpoint INTP females have of INFJ males? Auburn once classified me as NiFe. He is an expert typologist.
 

ZenRaiden

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I know a married couple who are both INTPs. I think they've been married over 30 years, met in college and have one kid. They run an inn. They seem pretty happy together whenever I've seen them, but of course I woudn't know all the personal details.
If its true I would not be suprised at all. Life is a lot more than MBTI. MBTI is nothing compared to life complexity. Tempo, rythm of life, outlook on life, attitudes, sexual predispositions, ability to adujst and ability to share and ideals or culture are completely disregarded in MBTI. Those things make the other 99 percent that MBTI doesnt care to put into neat boxes or even consider. I was making light of MBTI stereotypes. If two people meet and happen to share a moment you can already classify that as form of relationship. Depending on individual needs if those people happen to share things the prefer they end up in functioning relationship more or less.

I think if you read my threads on MBTI you probably already know what I think about MBTI and its not much of a good opinion. It was interesting at the start. The fun lasted only so long and now I am off to studying more interesting things. I know MBTI has something to say about relationships and even Jung had to say a lot about relationships, but I am pretty sure Jung had biased view of typology namely because he was practicing psychiatrist and he knew about people a lot more than can be summarized in typology. Clearly that extra bit of experience made his typology relevant, but typology alone without that extra bit has no meaning in my opinion.
 

redbaron

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dating world isn't actually that hard for men

the problems they face are super exaggerated imo
 

rlnb

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I believe a former colleague of mine(female) is a INTP. We worked on the same team for about 8 months. She was super smart (one of the smartest I have ever worked with).
Generalising from this one data point :
Male INTPs and female INTPs can be great co-workers and friends (The friendship may be difficult to sustain for long though as neither will make an effort and they may drift apart).
Female INTPs are probably more emotionally and socially mature that their male counterparts, partly genetics and partly upbringing.
 

moody

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Those things make the other 99 percent that MBTI doesnt care to put into neat boxes or even consider. I was making light of MBTI stereotypes.
No worries, I wasn't implying anything. I was only sharing a real-life example I've encountered.

but I am pretty sure Jung had biased view of typology namely because he was practicing psychiatrist and he knew about people a lot more than can be summarized in typology.
Eh, cut Jung some slack;
The MBTI was not drawn up by Jung, but two students (as I'm sure you know). I don't imagine Jung would be very pleased with the impression MBTI gives...

I've read a few of Jung's lectures, and he noticed a lot of things without having the advantage of pre-existing research that we have.
In his time, there was a lot less knowledge out there about psychology, and the idea/ study of "mental health" was still in infancy. In the lectures I've read, it's clear he noticed sociological influences on humans, along with certain patters of thinking. Sociology wasn't yet recognized (still largely isn't other than as a subject), so Jung's research often muddles it with psychology. It makes it a tad convoluted.

It's clear Jung knows there's a lot that he's missing; he constantly refutes himself with different variables. He was afraid to put labels onto things because he knew there was more he didn't know. Not like Freud at all!
 

moody

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I wonder if INTP females and INFJ males get along? I was aware that the pairings for INTP males and INFJ females was compatible. But I do not really know how that compatibility is expressed. Can someone tell me the viewpoint INTP females have of INFJ males? Auburn once classified me as NiFe. He is an expert typologist.
It depends how well adjusted both INTP and INFJ are, but I think it's complimenting. Both types are a bit more attentive to people they care about, since they're not primed to have boat-loads of friends. (As can be a problem with Introvert and extroverts).

Ideally, the "J" would probably make the INFJ more likely to speak up when they're upset/not okay with something. INTPs are (ideally) not likely to take such "confrontations" as criticisms, and the P makes them more likely to at least hear out whatever the INFJ has to say.
 

Minuend

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I guess I realize at this point how meaningless such a conversation is between a male and a female, considering that the issues each of the groups face are completely different, and that these differences will be invisible to the initiated – i.e. about 99% of the population. I've understood for a long time the sort of risks women face with men, and I know that to most men these worries will mean nothing. At the same time, there's practically no women who understand that men cannot have the same passive and risk-averse mindset in these things, because in that case most men's chances of reproduction would drop to about zero.
Oh god, get the fuck over yourself. Oh, you are disagreeing with a person that is female, obviously that means women everywhere in any time and form will never understand you. Obviously that's the problem here. Could you be wrong? Or have some slight flaw in your logic? Never, you're just experiencing every single woman on the entire planet can't understand you. What the fuck. Tell me how to reach that level of ignorance and thinking you don't have any flaws, because that sounds like a nice existence.
 

Tenacity

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I don't have any close friends who are INTP. In fact, I don't have any close friends at all, lol.
Awwww. Just remember, you always have squirrels to be your friends.
Well, the last squirrel I saw at the park did make most eye contact with me compared to than any human being so far in the last week or so... * shrug...smile *

__

This thread seems to have escalated a bit.

I'm open minded to understanding men's concerns and viewpoints. Generalizations of people that are especially criticizing are not really healthy to do but if it ends up being representative of all social encounters of any category of people, women or not, that were had, I would question how socialized a person actually is given that there are typically rules and manners to be had, in order to earn or maintain respect in reputation, conversation, etc. That is, if you know how to have a conversation... which can be strikingly hard these days and may require practice or being with the "right" people to be good at.

I once spoke to an INT(P/J) who talked to me in real life like he talked to the people he met online in video games. It was, unfortunately, extremely laughable how disrespectful he came off as without realizing it. It was bad conditioning for the real world. I straight up told him he needs to talk to more women to be able to even have a conversation with me.

After this, he seemed to have changed himself (a few months later) and had noticeably made efforts to talk about little things when relevant.

This was an adult man more than several years older than I.

What comes to mind now is Bill Gates - I'm amidst watching the documentary on him so I sense most INTPs and INTJs can relate to the desire to prioritize the righteousness of their inner mind over socializing.

However, his sister mentioned in the documentary that his parents played a part in his success as they intentionally set up times for large competitive family events and his father got him to be socially involved at his work events doing stereotypically extraverted activities, and that helped him become as successful as he was today due to the ability to know how to interact socially -without- coming off as rude, offensive, abrupt, or many of the things some socially underdeveloped INTPs and INTJs may do.

I am still working on this myself. I fear the day where I will have to talk to a journalist on live television and speak "normally". The only way to get over this fear is to put myself out there, and I'll soon re-realize navigating environments of people often isn't that hard, after all. Seems there are a set of common emotional needs to be satisfied in the external world.

Manners, people. It is important to have manners when it matters, and directness when necessary. In times when the time is not a crazy emergency situation, what is the point of communication without adequate empathy and consideration? It is less of a gender thing than a thing of learning social manners and politeness if you expect the same in return. If you project the connotation of negativity into the world around you, would it not make sense that some of that will deflect back into you?

Some things require practice as much as actually thinking. You also need thoughts and ideas to challenge your own to succeed in life.

Feel free to say what you wish, though I would urge you to consider how the information is received by the other party/parties.

If you'd like to direct message me, feel free - I'll appreciate that you reached out. Weirdness is always fine or even cool - just please don't be a creep, and we're good.

Happy Saturday, all :)
 

Tenacity

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I should mention that if you're an NT or NF that I'll still have more in common with you on a personality type level than most of the women (well, people) I encounter, so if you're interested in the opinion of a female INTP (with fluctuating I and P) then you're in the right place until more INTP females pop in, lol.

We can pivot this thread into something else for now - Here are some of my thoughts for starters :) You're welcome to answer one of these questions directly or just add a random or related spin-off comment.
  • What is your first impression of an INTP female?
  • What do you like or dislike about INTP females?
  • Are you able to "type" an INTP when you see one?
  • What is it like to talk to an INTP female versus other types?
  • Is it possible that the literature on INTPs (eBooks, etc.) is heavily skewed toward men? Does an "INTP female" book exist?
You're also welcome to ask me and (the few, but still ever-existing) other INTP women questions on being an INTP female. :) And if you're not NT or NF but are curious about INTP females feel free to ask questions too or chime in.
 

Serac

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I guess I realize at this point how meaningless such a conversation is between a male and a female, considering that the issues each of the groups face are completely different, and that these differences will be invisible to the initiated – i.e. about 99% of the population. I've understood for a long time the sort of risks women face with men, and I know that to most men these worries will mean nothing. At the same time, there's practically no women who understand that men cannot have the same passive and risk-averse mindset in these things, because in that case most men's chances of reproduction would drop to about zero.
Oh god, get the fuck over yourself. Oh, you are disagreeing with a person that is female, obviously that means women everywhere in any time and form will never understand you. Obviously that's the problem here. Could you be wrong? Or have some slight flaw in your logic? Never, you're just experiencing every single woman on the entire planet can't understand you. What the fuck. Tell me how to reach that level of ignorance and thinking you don't have any flaws, because that sounds like a nice existence.
I see you're trying really hard to not understand anything I write. Suit yourself.
 

Tenacity

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In "real life" social situations I'm the girl in the corner who doesn't talk to anyone unless approached, or I force myself to talk to others if someone else looks like they could use company -only- if its a networking event where you're expected to talk to someone. But I will 99% not initiate conversation in real life unless drunk. Actually, even if drunk with others, I'll be on my phone writing notes to myself about realizations/abstract thoughts, and will need to take bathroom breaks to simply extrapolate.

In group conversations I will be awkwardly quiet and then suddenly jump in with a question or answer the second I have a chance to say something that will be intriguing and unconventional. I try to avoid group conversations as much as possible because it just feels odd.

It was kind of awkward like that in school too - The professor would be talking and following the agenda, and I'll have the urge to say something and it unleashes some controversy or a new train of thought to the point where students would turn to each other as if either questioning it or wanting to talk about it yet the professor would need to address it quickly or move along for the sake of time. In some instances the professor would be elated and compliment me, and then I'd get some sense of validation from injecting refreshing insights into an ultra-boring lecture.

In many cases I forced myself to lead larger groups of people and felt more of an ENTP in an INTP's body.

I've also extensively studied INTP "weaknesses", one of which is, I believe, emotional/social aptitude, which I conditioned myself to try and become accustomed to over the years.
Wow. You sound like you're shy, but also like you've been to university already. How old are you?
25
I probably am shy, yet people have thought of me as extraverted. I think what happens is that I feel shy internally, but act / talk / conversate / attempt to emote, despite my emotions.
 

Tenacity

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Makes me really wonder how different are INTP males and INTP females.
I guess Ill never know. Truth be I admit it would be odd pairing.
What would it be like..... procrastination dating, shared psychosis over social obligation, book and source exchange program, brainstorming sessions trying to figure out who has more complicated relationship with reality.
I know a married couple who are both INTPs. I think they've been married over 30 years, met in college and have one kid. They run an inn. They seem pretty happy together whenever I've seen them, but of course I woudn't know all the personal details.
Re: ZenRaiden: I have dated INTPs - Yes, procrastination dating is right... Psychosis over social obligation haha yeah that is accurate. Book name exchanges also. I basically had to initiate / lead conversation and whether or not things "advance". This was sometimes draining, but ended up being fun anyways. At some points it felt like dating myself in a completely different body from another dimension in time.

Re: moody: Wow, I'm actually surprised they had a kid, since it seemed like every INTP I'd ever interacted with was against having children and having to take care of them. But that seems awesome especially since they have been together for so, so long. And I imagine their child will be a very unique and thoughtful bookworm, if I may begin stereotyping out of nowhere.
 

Animekitty

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You're also welcome to ask me and (the few, but still ever-existing) other INTP women questions on being an INTP female. :)
Thinking is folding inward
Intuition is folding outward

I get the first but not the second.
I do not know if women use them differently from men.

How do you use them Tenacity as a female? TiNe
 

redbaron

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there's practically no women who understand that men cannot have the same passive and risk-averse mindset in these things, because in that case most men's chances of reproduction would drop to about zero.
i still can't wrap my head around this one

just don't be a dickhead and you'll have a surplus of opportunities to reproduce if you really want to
 

Polaris

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I should mention that if you're an NT or NF that I'll still have more in common with you on a personality type level than most of the women (well, people) I encounter, so if you're interested in the opinion of a female INTP (with fluctuating I and P) then you're in the right place until more INTP females pop in, lol.
Hmmm, I'm definitely NT, but not sure in which constellation. I seem to get the INTJ badge (read:badgering) a bit and tested INTJ when I was first introduced to the concept, but I have an aversion to other INTJs and these INFJs that I'm supposed to love so much just rub me up the wrong way...then again, I don't even know if I have typed these correctly - I mean while typology can be fun it's still extremely subject to confirmation bias and a worrying assortment of other biases.

I find the better I get to know someone the harder it is to type them because their stand out preferences suddenly become drowned-out preferences...

The whole typology thing has therefore lost its sparkle for me, and I frequently find myself sniggering/facepalming/eyerolling (or a combination of all of the above) when I read typology threads.

....therefore, when posed with questions such as the following, I find myself overcome with an intense urge to start trolling, but I will resist because you are nice and we would be extremely stupid to scare you away from this dried-up husk of a defunct dinosaurian forum:

Ten said:
We can pivot this thread into something else for now - Here are some of my thoughts for starters :) You're welcome to answer one of these questions directly or just add a random or related spin-off comment.

What is your first impression of an INTP female?
I don't know if I've ever met one! They're elusive as fuck!

What do you like or dislike about INTP females?
I don't know because I don't even know if I have ever met one?They sound like....uh, fun...? I mean, I don't really get along with most women (or most men for that matter) but perhaps an INTP would be cool(er)...? I know that sounds shit, but it's kinda true.

Are you able to "type" an INTP when you see one?
Eh, no...the more I learn about typology, the more I doubt my own ability to "type". Then again, I second guess everything.

What is it like to talk to an INTP female versus other types?
See above reply. I have a friend I don't see very often, and I have sometimes wondered if she is INTP. She doesn't flinch at taboo/unconventional topics, and in fact, encourages it. So maybe....

She is also highly reclusive, like me :o

Somewhat unrelated, but I may have run into a couple of INTJs and they were a bit scary, but perhaps that's just me feeling intimidated for various reasons. However, I am pretty certain my best friend is ENTJ and she is awesome. Extremely unhealthy school principal and science teacher/motorbike nerd. Her hubby is INFP and stay-at-home dad...and he loves it, heh.

Is it possible that the literature on INTPs (eBooks, etc.) is heavily skewed toward men? Does an "INTP female" book exist?
Yes....?
And maybe no....? I haven't checked?

I mean, this appears to be a similar problem to the female autism thing. For years, there's been this misconception that women need to conform to the same autism traits as men, such as hyperfocus on singular topics such as numbers or....whatever. So, if a girl is obsessed with makeup, for example, she's just being a girl. Even if she's locked in her room all day, organising her bloody makeup by colours, or baking cakes obsessively....she's still just being a girl. However, when boys get obsessed, they are suddenly autistic.

What people seem to forget, however, is that men and women have different interests -- as a very general non-pc rule, before anyone jumps down my throat -- so why the f*k should an autistic woman be like a man....???

Uh, you don't count aeroplanes, and you have social skills so you're not autistic.

It's kind of amusing. The result is that many autistic women are misdiagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder or Bipolar disorder instead...I mean, stuff like that makes me want to stab my eyeballs out.

So yes, the whole idea that a woman cannot be INTP because "she's too good at social stuff", or because she applies Ti to her knitting recipe instead of coding is just - ridiculous.

Women build systems too - they just tend to apply it differently, and more subtly.

And of course women INTPs would be better at social stuff - it's literally rammed down their throats from the day they are born.

Doesn't mean we love it!

Yikes, the above rationale makes it seem as if I'm comparing INTP to autism...

Hahahahahahaha :ahh:

Ten said:
You're also welcome to ask me and (the few, but still ever-existing) other INTP women questions on being an INTP female. :) And if you're not NT or NF but are curious about INTP females feel free to ask questions too or chime in.
What were your thought processes as a child/teen? How did you get along with other girls/women?
 

Tenacity

More than methods to the madness
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You're also welcome to ask me and (the few, but still ever-existing) other INTP women questions on being an INTP female. :)
Thinking is folding inward
Intuition is folding outward

I get the first but not the second.
I do not know if women use them differently from men.

How do you use them Tenacity as a female? TiNe
What is hard, I think, is being in the midst of putting two and two together, so to speak, and having a sensor interrupt me because of my appearance. There are multiple instances but I'll give one. So, I am physically attractive because I have to be, not fully because I want to be. My attractiveness seems to be a disadvantage to my ability to think deeply about anything. Just yesterday I had went on my normal walk. A man in front of me intentionally slowed down just to wait for me to catch up to his speed, then stopped completely, smiling the biggest grin I'd ever seen, forcing me to stop -everything- I was thinking about and force a smile back, walking past him while he just stood there, admiring me in a too close for comfort way. I had been thinking about the state of the world, how music was so great at unifying people beyond political agendas, beyond the threat of hate and war.

And then, suddenly, perhaps, a sensor interrupts me, yet pays the most attention to me just for being who I am on the outside, without knowing anything about me. It was awkward, refreshing, yet moreso creepy, and majorly analysis-derailing at the same time.

Then, I thought, well, a smile is another example of a language that is essentially language-less.

I guess, beauty kind of is too, in general.

My mind keeps doing feedback loops and updates like, "What did I learn? What insight did I get from that?"

It seems I am discovering as I am writing and communicating, while simultaneously processing sets of chains of ideas that need to either extend further into thought, or end being some sort of statement. Kind of like...a brain tree that keeps growing, and I try to keep trimming but it keeps expanding because the trimming itself reveals new extensions of possibilities.

I would think that I have certain rules I have to follow in part due to social conditioning, and in part due to the fact that, while I am competitive in nature, I don't naturally like to cause conflict, nor do I get pleasure from other's pain. Seeing that man smile made me feel appreciated and almost sad that something as simple as my presence could make him grin like that, when I personally haven't smiled that big a smile in weeks, if not months, or years. A genuine smile of delight, not one of those "I just saw a meme" smiling-laughs.

I'm not sure how I use Ne differently from men. I am curious to know as well. I suspect that everything has slightly more consideration for the end goal of having an aesthetic presentation of ideas that fits what society rewards in female socialization. I wonder what would happen if I could challenge myself to break away from the mold of what society thinks I should be. That is probably the biggest thing holding me back in life: Societal expectations.

And, since the world is 75% comprised of sensors, it is possible that things that people taught me should matter to me as an individual really need not matter to me at all for me to be the best version of myself. Or, that since I am bound by the confines of the majority, I have to adapt or risk a compromised existence.

there's practically no women who understand that men cannot have the same passive and risk-averse mindset in these things, because in that case most men's chances of reproduction would drop to about zero.
i still can't wrap my head around this one

just don't be a dickhead and you'll have a surplus of opportunities to reproduce if you really want to
Okay, so, I think I get it, and I tend to see both sides of every argument. Would you care to elaborate if I'm willing to listen?

When you say "These things", are those things initiation of conversation, or what else? I've lost track of the thread and I'm not able to re-summarize what you mean, though I actually did try to write things out and understand.

Speaking ultra generally, do men truly initiate conversation with a woman who is a stranger only with the end goal of reproduction? And, is this end goal conscious or mostly unconscious?

Do women generally do this? I'm not sure that I do. I don't know what it is. I've interacted with many people / strangers I have absolutely no intention of reproducing with LOL. I don't want children, either, so I'm not sure what the desire for reproduction really means to me.

Conversation is intrinsically rewarding for me. So, I'd like to grasp the concept from your perspective if I can.
 

Serac

A menacing post slithers
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Okay, so, I think I get it, and I tend to see both sides of every argument. Would you care to elaborate if I'm willing to listen?

When you say "These things", are those things initiation of conversation, or what else? I've lost track of the thread and I'm not able to re-summarize what you mean, though I actually did try to write things out and understand.

Speaking ultra generally, do men truly initiate conversation with a woman who is a stranger only with the end goal of reproduction? And, is this end goal conscious or mostly unconscious?

Do women generally do this? I'm not sure that I do. I don't know what it is. I've interacted with many people / strangers I have absolutely no intention of reproducing with LOL. I don't want children, either, so I'm not sure what the desire for reproduction really means to me.

Conversation is intrinsically rewarding for me. So, I'd like to grasp the concept from your perspective if I can.
Initiating conversation, actively seeking out the opposite sex, escalating things sexually and romantically. Hey, I would have loved if things were perfectly equal, but certain biological and cultural facts prevent that. A biological fact is that the supply of dick is usually larger than then demand. Cultural facts are things like slut shaming (something I find disagreeable btw). I've met exactly 2 women in my life who took the initiative in these things, while the majority took the more usual passive approach – i.e. waiting for the counterparty to take the lead. There's nothing wrong with that, and I am of the opinion that this is how things should be, but the problem arises when women start judging male behavior in these things. One cannot have it both ways – i.e. both shaming men for taking initiative and simultaneously not taking initiative oneself.
 

Polaris

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My awkward dating history.

I've actually asked guys out twice, and both times I was rejected, lol. Actually, counting a boy I asked out when I was 10 years old, that makes three.

The first was my geology lab instructor (yeah, I know, wtf was I thinking). He was short (well, just under my height), somewhat overweight, and had brigth blue eyes behind a pair of funky glasses. He also had a wicked sense of humour. He used to look at me when he was talking during class, and I was always responding to questions, being the typical geek that I am.

I was getting ideas...how wrong could I be....

I asked him out after class and he got so befuddled/overwhelmed that he said yes - poor guy.

Then I think he thought about it and realised I wasn't just asking to have a drink...so he came running back to me and apologised - he said that he had misunderstood, and explained he already had a girlfriend, ghah.

He was literally tomato-coloured.

After that it just became really awkward because I was of course a bit (quite) disappointed and tried to avoid him - but every time I went to the library I had to go past his office, urgh -- and he would always spot me and smile and wave :ahh:

I think he was kind of flattered that a student had asked him out, so at least I was happy for him. I don't think he was used to that...

However, I was so embarrassed I strongly wished for a sink hole to open up beneath me. I felt like such a creep...

Another time I asked the barista working at the university cafe out - yeah, I'm not exactly shy, am I! But the thing is - I'm actually terribly shy - so this is quite a brave/unusual thing for me to do. Anyway, he got my number, and then because I was heading off to math exam and I was nervous as fuck (yeah, I know - asking some guy out on my way to math exam...what the hell was I thinking), so of course I ended up going to the wrong room and had to run back to the other side of campus. While I was running the phone suddenly rang but I was so stressed I ignored it - only realising afterwards it was probably him. But I had no way of calling back because I was late for my exam.

Because I had not called back straight away, I felt too embarrassed to call, and the more I procrastinated, the more time passed...I didn't hear anything after that, and therefore avoided the cafe - which I also had to walk past every day. Of course he was always standing there, and he would give me weird looks as I walked past. It was so awkward because I was never sure if it was actually him that had called, or if he just wasn't interested, or one million other possibilities that I went over and over in my head.

Lesson one: Don't ask someone out without finding out if they have a girlfriend first (in the ideal world).

Lesson two: Don't ask someone out just before you're about to have a maths exam- induced panic attack.

But generally, I don't feel as if I have ever just played a passive part in dating or whatever you want to call it. I have always made it very obvious that I'm interested, because when I was younger, I was the opposite. I would avoid the guy at any cost, and that doesn't exactly give results, does it now.

But yeah, I've had guys asking me out of the blue, and that's pretty confronting. Because I haven't had a chance to think, I have said no. I mean, if I don't even know anything about them, why would I say yes?

But I have somewhat regretted it afterwards, when I found out more about them.

So it may be that when a guy asks some random girl out - this is what actually happens. She feels overwhelmed or slightly ambushed - so the first reaction is rejection, because it's the safest option. It may not necessarily be due to her not being interested. She just needs some thinking time. Or she might just be really confused (depending on the context - if it's in a bar, it's usually not that difficult to guess motives). Not all girls (I would actually guess very few) are so full of themselves they immediately assume that this is what is happening.

I think the trick is to make sure she is actually sure you are interested - at a safe distance - before approaching. If she's getting used to the idea that someone is interested, she'll be better prepared, and feel less ambushed. Most women are actually highly insecure about this stuff - even though they may not appear that way. It obviously depends on where you seek them out. But yeah, women have huge appearance/attraction issues, just like men.

I mean, every time I suspect that a guy might be interested, I am actually unsure if he really is interested. So I get really paranoid and start to act all proper (because I don't want to seem like a creep), which might be off-putting for them. Self-fulfilling prophecy. I have honestly never gotten the hang of this dating business because I'm terrible at reading people, and thus have an equally terrible track-record. I mean, I get confused - even in a bar. When I was younger, I thought guys talked to me in bars because they wanted to have a chat. Seriously - that's how clueless I am.

And sometimes, people simply don't find you attractive! Some guys don't find me attractive - woah, I will now go kill myself.
 

Jennywocky

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25 I probably am shy, yet people have thought of me as extraverted. I think what happens is that I feel shy internally, but act / talk / conversate / attempt to emote, despite my emotions.
Yeah, there's a lot of faking it until you make it. I've been told too that I seem like an extravert, but fuck no. I used to think I had social skills (and I guess I do, after all this time) but I feel most of the time like I'm just trying to emulate something I read out of a book and don't really know how to relate to people at all anymore. I also become very isolated IRL because I don't know how to engage nearby people in daily conversations they don't initiate. I was chronically shy as a child.

The thing is, get me on an idea or topic I know something about and like to discuss, or if you are someone I know decently and/or click with, then I seem far more chatty and confident. And sometimes when I get really nervous, I'll talk more because I don't know what to do. I also know enough to just listen and ask questions if the other person is more talkative, because they'll give me enough information to ask something about. But... eh.

I think it comes down to the individual -- there are those who WANT to relate even when they don't know how (so they try), and there are those who are indifferent or don't care much to relate and are perfectly content to not engage. I'm one of the former, I realized, but you'll meet the other as well.
 

redbaron

irony based lifeform
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minuend ensuring all men stay hydrated, regardless of their misconduct

a true pillar of generosity and empathy
 

Animekitty

Anime Christmas kitty
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I've met exactly 2 women in my life who took the initiative in these things, while the majority took the more usual passive approach – i.e. waiting for the counterparty to take the lead.
I am not that great at initiative. I'm a passive male. I only ask when I know the kind of girl is the right type. I take rejection harshly so she has to be passive also so that we have common ground. Not all girls are passive at least not in being the silent type is passive. Passive is not the same as slow to put yourself out there. Or waiting for the other party. It's hard to describe but it's not playing hard to get. I am talking about the passive personality temperament, not the hate the game not the player type passive.

The passive temperament / silent type usually will not be all flirtatious about me asking them out. I feel safer around them. Flirting is just something horrible I do not do because it puts me in the moment all embarrassed. It's a hard to get thing not a passive thing. Sure flirting can be passive but that is more submissive. Substitute passive with submissive and everything I said will make sense.

A submissive type girl one asked me on a date once. From interacting with her is how I know in relative comparison whether It is safe to interact with females my type. I can detect their personality. So I know if it will be embarrassing or not get to know them. I am simply looking for smoothness of interaction, I am not afraid to be wrong once n a while. I am just a highly sensitive person.

The whole passive-active dichotomy isn't that helpful in my case.
It is more the ability to detect your own kind that is useful.
 

Montalbanov

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I don't have any close friends who are INTP. In fact, I don't have any close friends at all, lol.

One of my closest friends from middle school, I found out, was INTP. But we live in different states now and I haven't reached out to her in years. We're both different but share the commonality of being intelligent and introspective, and we appreciate systems involving complexity and discovery.

It would be awesome to connect and chat, or if you're in your whole mental vortex thing and can't actually chat/put effort into the post, feel free to say something random or something along the lines of "me!".

I'm happy to follow you too, especially since I'm new here :)
Hi.

Have you felt problems in your life as INTPS in terms of meeting people, expectations, taste in music/lifestyle or interaction with other girls?
 
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