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Are INTPs and ENTPs Cerebral Narcissists?

kvothe27

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I don't know. There's some overlap. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. The cerebral narcissist could be mistyped as an INTP, and the INTP could mistakenly view himself as a cerebral narcissist. And, of course, many INTPs could very well be both. What do you think?

I don't know how dominant this particular viewpoint is and its consensus in the psychological community. Perhaps someone else can provide his or her wisdom on the matter to enlighten me, preferably with links or names of books as sources so that I might explore this further.

Also, I did a quick search on this on this forum, but nothing turned up, so I apologize if this has already been discussed.


http://samvak.tripod.com/journal21.html

Dr. Jackal and Mr. Hide: Cerebral vs. Somatic Narcissist

Narcissists are either cerebral or somatic. In other words, they either generate their Narcissistic Supply by applying their bodies or by applying their minds.
The somatic narcissist flaunts his sexual conquests, parades his possessions, exhibits his muscles, brags about his physical aesthetics, youthfulness, sexual prowess or exploits, and is often a health freak and a hypochondriac. The somatic narcissist regards his body as an object to be sculpted and honed (via extreme diets, multiple cosmetic surgeries, bodybuilding, or weightlifting). When coupled with psychopathic tendencies, the somatic appropriates other people’s bodies and treats these as “raw materials” to be dismembered, tampered with, altered, invaded, or otherwise abused.
Somatic narcissists are often portrayed as sex addicts or histrionic. But really they derive their narcissistic supply not so much from the sex act as from the process of securing it: the conspiracies and assignations, the chase and conquest, the subjugation and habituation of their targets, and even from dumping and discarding their prey, once having extracted the attention and admiration they had sought. These extracurricular activities endow them with a sense of omnipotence and all-pervasive control. Their sway over their paramours and would-be lovers proves to them (and to others) their uniqueness, desirability and irresistibility.

The cerebral narcissist is a know-it-all, haughty and intelligent "computer". He uses his awesome intellect, or knowledge (real or pretended) to secure adoration, adulation and admiration. To him, his body and its maintenance are a burden and a distraction.
Both types are auto-erotic (psychosexually in love with themselves, with their bodies and with their brain). Both types prefer masturbation to adult, mature, interactive, multi-dimensional and emotion-laden sex.
The cerebral narcissist is often celibate (even when he has a girlfriend or a spouse). He prefers pornography and sexual auto-stimulation to the real thing. The cerebral narcissist is sometimes a latent (hidden, not yet outed) homosexual.
The somatic narcissist uses other people's bodies to masturbate. Sex with him - pyrotechnics and acrobatics aside - is likely to be an impersonal and emotionally alienating and draining experience. The partner is often treated as an object, an extension of the somatic narcissist, a toy, a warm and pulsating vibrator.
It is a mistake to assume type-constancy. In other words, all narcissists are BOTH cerebral and somatic. In each narcissist, one of the types is dominant. So, the narcissist is either OVERWHELMINGLY cerebral - or DOMINANTLY somatic. But the other type, the recessive (manifested less frequently) type, is there. It is lurking, waiting to erupt.
The narcissist swings between his dominant type and his recessive type. The latter is expressed mainly as a result of a major narcissistic injury or life crisis.
I can give you hundreds of examples from my correspondence but, instead, let's talk about me (of course...:o))




I am a cerebral narcissist. I brandish my brainpower, exhibit my intellectual achievements, bask in the attention given to my mind and its products. I hate my body and neglect it. It is a nuisance, a burden, a derided appendix, an inconvenience, a punishment. Needless to add that I rarely have sex (often years apart). I masturbate regularly, very mechanically, as one would change water in an aquarium. I stay away from women because I perceive them to be ruthless predators who are out to consume me and mine.
I have had quite a few major life crises. I got divorced, lost millions a few times, did time in one of the worst prisons in the world, fled countries as a political refugee, was threatened, harassed and stalked by powerful people and groups. I have been devalued, betrayed, denigrated and insulted.
Invariably, following every life crisis, the somatic narcissist in me took over. I became a lascivious lecher. When this happened, I had a few relationships - replete with abundant and addictive sex - going simultaneously. I participated in and initiated group sex and mass orgies. I exercised, lost weight and honed my body into an irresistible proposition.
This outburst of unrestrained, primordial lust waned in a few months and I settled back into my cerebral ways. No sex, no women, no body.
These total reversals of character stun my mates. My girlfriends and spouse found it impossible to digest this eerie transformation from the gregarious, darkly handsome, well-built and sexually insatiable person that swept them off their feet - to the bodiless, bookwormish hermit with not an inkling of interest in either sex or other carnal pleasures.
I miss my somatic half. I wish I could find a balance, but I know it is a doomed quest. This sexual beast of mine will forever be trapped in the intellectual cage that is I, Sam Vaknin, the Brain.
 

redbaron

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Considering the guy's a self-admitted narcissist I wonder how much the things he says are even reliable in the first place. The piece struck me as a veiled attempt at analyzing what constitutes a narcissist, for the express purpose of telling the audience about his own (assumed) exploits.

Still if we take these definitions seriously, I'd say that XNTP's might be slightly more predisposed towards cerebral narcissism than somatic - possibly. Not sure if they'd be more narcissistic in general though.
 

dark+matters

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Ahhh, Sam Vaknin- my favorite "psychopath." I remember the first time I picked up his $50 book at Barnes and Noble. I have so many opinions! Soooooooooooooo many. I loved that book. It's beautifully written, his videos are engaging, and his musings have saved me a lot of pain in life by helping to steer me out of danger. But I have qualms. So many qualms. I keep telling myself I'm going to do a blog post about this subject because I used to love it, but now I think the subject, which is rightly and wholly influenced by Vaknin, has now spread too far, been taken too dogmatically, and has spiraled completely and totally out of control in our culture. There's so much I have to say... I don't even know how to begin. LOL So let me condense my opinion by saying, "No, I don't believe so," to the original question. :D
 

onesteptwostep

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This guy really needs to go to the army and get his male alpha side running and learn how to bond with other people o_O

I think the guy just really lacks perspective.. or has just adopted shamelessness as a philosophy or something.
 

Yellow

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I think this is where we vary within the personality type. I am sometimes baffled with the stubbornness, unearned arrogance, and obsessiveness apparent among some INTPs, while others are calm, easy-going, and insightful.
 

TBerg

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I think it depends on your upbringing, Yellow, and how dysfunctional your influences were in warping your proclivities. I was always praised and denigrated pretty sharply. This should never be done to a child unless their behavior is extreme. One must never believe they are the devil and Jesus at the same time.
 

wadlez

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It's really annoying that narcissism is accepted as the basis for explanation of behavior without any further explanation. In the quoted usage, it seems to me a definition without substance, and categorizes people into narcissistic or not (With not being the ideal normal person).

Psychoanalytic theorists have asserted that the narcissism is the only form of love, we love others only because they love us, and confirm a positive view of ourselves. This is a good use of the concept of narcissism (regardless of if you agree with it). Simply saying someone is narcissistic and then launching into the categories of such is completely lacking of insight.
 

Architect

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This guy really needs to go to the army and get his male alpha side running and learn how to bond with other people.
He was in the Israeli Army for three years.

To the original post; he has a psychological condition that is outside and beyond type. He claims to be a sterling sex magnet but his pictures show a ordinary looking guy, that kind of thinking isn't type related. Further his writings on the subject are about how the narcissist complex can displace the actual sense of self, indicating personality and not type.

However certainly all NT's can be prone to a bit of mild intellectual narcissism. In my experience the INTJ's the most. However this is very different from what he experiences which is a psychological complex.
 

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I think Sam Vaknin is an ENTJ.
XNTP won't appreciate power like an xNTJ would. We get attached to ideas and theories which we could put above others. In a way it is funny but prestige is not our goal. I know that I'm even capable of degrading myself if I think it is the truth.
 

Pyropyro

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Cerebral Narcissists: because good old narcissism just won't cut it for xNTP's.

I do believe that cerebral narcissists may type themselves as "NT's". However, I think they would probably gravitate to the more influential types such as ENTJ and INTJ. Although xNTP's may enjoy a similar intellectual prestige with their Judging brothers, they are less seen as powerful types and more as carefree ones.

As for INTP's who think that they are cerebral narcissists, I think that realization can only happen if they actually took an honest view of themselves. Perhaps they saw some of the signs which was stated in the article that you qouted and then took a better look at themselves afterwards.

On the other hand, people who are truly narcissistic may not even bother checking if they are.
 

ZenRaiden

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I dont really care much for narcissism. Anyway there isnt much to do about it. When you meet one you can not help him. When you are one you can not change much about it. And over all I dont really care if people are narcissistic, because even if they are not many and I mean majority of people like to think of themselves as smart people. I meet these people all the time. Its annoying to point out there mistakes and its annoying telling them that they are wrong and its annoying dealing with them in most situations. Narcissistic or not. Once you stop being honest and start believing that you have the patent to the absolut truth you are a loser in any case. You are out of touch with reality and have no chance of fixing things. Its better to be humble and real and aknowledge that knowing everything is impossible and be critical of oneself.

Also I believe that most likely there would be correlation with INTJs.
Being sort of schizoid and always self assured all knowing omnipotent creature of intellectual cerebral habits telling people how wrong they are and how easy it is to do everything.

I dont see many INTPs saying stuff is easy. If anything INTPs are the types that understand that nothing is easy. They dig deep and struggle all the time just to make the world organized and understood in principal. Thats some hard work no matter what you do. True INTPs know that there is no way to satisfy natural curiosity. There is just too much unknowns out there to be explored and too little time.

But meet an average INTJ and what will he tell you. Its easy. He knows it all. Hes done it long time ago. Hes a natural perfectionist. He does everything faster and better than anyone else. There is nothing he doesnt know something about. These INTJs are truely one of kind, each one of them. They know no limits. They are above scientist and above everyone. There is nothing they cannot achive.
 

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I don't really have "cognitive empathy" for it. I think NTJs have far superior CE or at least they gravitate towards it. I'm good at others cognitive thinking patterns not feelings.

I can not manipulate internal feelings at all or maybe I could but (by saying inappropriate things) not for anyone's benefit.
 

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You asked for Narc stuff so here:

INTJ scientist is bit of misnomer. Te+Fi.. come on you can not be wired optimally with that in rock hard science. Sure there are INTJ scientists but NTP is way above that and the flip side is that we are not built for achieving so called real things. Yay! We hold keys to the universe in our hands already so we can slack off.
INTJs are much more likely useless humanists where they try hard to understand human condition with weak Fi (we just try to be funny with Fe). Like it should actually matter in big picture.

Yeah! Look at that I used some Se
**shows his non existent muscles**
 

RandomGeneratedName

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Attempt 4... wow this is frustrating...

OP: Yes... there are cause and effects of Narcissism, which are seen more often in INTP/J...
BUT I wouldn't actually say the there is a lot more narcissistic persons in those 2 types, it's just that they are noticed more, because of behaviour/introversion. It's much more difficult to pick up from someone who is extrovert and manipulative using other emotions to cover it up, because the latter is disarming, the former cold, distant, aloof can put people on edge (a lot of people can't handle silence as well, which only adds to such a moment)

This is part of it.

Won't go into any more right now, 3 fails is enough, and ZenRaiden seems like they would probably jump on me :P because I can get carried away sometimes and speak like my words are the absolute truth (I read that's an INTP thing... lol)

I don't think links are the answer on this one :)
 

Hadoblado

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Seems to me like he's trying to get his name on something.

He takes what he knows about himself and generalises it into a condition connecting all the things he can say about himself into a a universal explanation.

- lapses in body care
- intellectualisation
- masturbation
- fluctuations in sex activity
- narcissism
- sometimes a homosexual? really? sounds like that applies to almost any selected sample...

I'm sure that there's patterns to be found, but connecting all these dots? I wanna see a study.

Also, following up on what Archie said about him being a very average looking guy:



This is the most flattering picture I could find of him. I dunno why it's relevant but the way he writes (expectedly) painted a very different picture.
 
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