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Censorship and Kormak

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Inexorable Username

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Now Angel is going to think that I actually reported him. Thanks for that.
i mean, you did?

you went out of your way to bring specifics of their behaviour to a moderator's attention.
No! I did NOT! I very specifically said again and again that I wouldn’t say someone like that should be censored - but Iq as making a point.

if you’re going to say their attack on me wasn’t a big deal - what gives you the right to then turn around and say that someone else’s response was?

ESPECIALLY when other people are giving you very good reasons against that frame of thought.
 

redbaron

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i have three members now who have complained about marbles' comment being well and truly beyond acceptable

which, for a forum as small as this one, is a pretty big response in such a short time

also inex, your arguments have been taken on board and as such i've also banned angel temporarily because you're right: it's not okay to attack people for who they are.

whatever productive discussion might come from these parties, it's not going to happen while tempers are so flared.
 

Rebis

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And what members are they? You, admin 2 and admin 3 perhaps?

Why did they not comment this on the thread itself, it's not like anonymity is a major concern.

It seems inorganic for people to be offended to not voice their opinion on the subject matter itself.
 

Inexorable Username

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Probably none of whom were actually involved in this conversation and read it from start to finish.
 

peoplesuck

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You banned my boi marbles for a JOKE.
???wot???
There are like 15 active members...I would consider not banning of of the 12 that arent mods...
 

Inexorable Username

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Yeah seriously.
Anyways. I’m not going to hang out here and be controlled and micropoliced by some power tripping person who wants to marginalize me.

I would be shocked at this point if they didn’t do something to Kormak and then just decide to play dumb like nothing happened.

I’ll message you Rebis.
I’m leaving. Screw this forum.
 

redbaron

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He said it wasn't supposed to be taken literally.
Then you proceeded to ban him after reading the message expressing clear intent.

Metaphors are a natural part of language, this is no exception.

Anyways why are you deciding intent? Did angel take offence? If angel did not take offence it should stand that a ban isn't committed on false grounds.
"i was only joking!" is not a defense for inappropriate behaviours.

nor is intent required for this to be an egregious statement.

whether or not angel took offence is not information that other people are privy to knowing. however, multiple people have taken offence and think the statement is absolutely not something they want to see on this forum - myself included (yes, i'm also a user on this forum).
 

redbaron

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And what members are they? You, admin 2 and admin 3 perhaps?

Why did they not comment this on the thread itself, it's not like anonymity is a major concern.

It seems inorganic for people to be offended to not voice their opinion on the subject matter itself.
Probably none of whom were actually involved in this conversation and read it from start to finish.
none of the other members were admins

none were involved in this discussion

@Happy even posted their disapproval publicly
 

Inexorable Username

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You banned my boi marbles for a JOKE.
???wot???
There are like 15 active members...I would consider not banning of of the 12 that arent mods...
Yeah he banned Marbles and Marbles was the guy trying to make peace here. Rebis and I think Kormak’s account was messed with by the mods because he had controversial views.
Red was saying that’s not the case, but then in a conversation between some weird guy Angel (who hasn’t been active for 10 years and showed up on this forum just to troll me and insult me for being American and use this as validation to say my beliefs don’t matter...), Marbles made an off cooor comment to this guy that was essentially “Go jump off a bridge”

and this moderator is saying that Angel’s treatment of me is like - ehn, no big deal - but telling someone to go jump off a bridge is SO NOT COOL so he banned marbles.

Then when I made a passionate argument about freedom of speech - he banned Angel to. Because he decided not to read my opinions or care about them, and instead just took this as a report - even though I never reported that person. So NOW they will think I did. And most unfortunately, I can’t send them a message to apologize for the turn of the conversation and explain to them that we welcome them in this community.
 

redbaron

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moreover: in the context of this discussion, Marbles had expressed their annoyance at Angel

they were not engaging in friendly banter or joking. joking intent occurred only after the fact, when someone told them that this is not an okay statement to make.

would you find it funny, if mid-argument somebody told you that you deserve to be mutilated? somehow, i really doubt it.
 

redbaron

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if you also think that "go jump off a bridge" is an okay statement to make and one that is defensible by "i was only joking" - again i can't help you there.
 

Inexorable Username

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Marbles had actually successfull unhinged the argument and everyone was pretty much in good spirits at that point and making comments about his profile pic.

Angel kept trying to antagonize, but after Marbles comment he said something easy-going and then said he had to go.

then this mod comes along and decides to police us all out of nowhere and say that it’s becaue of his own personal views on the situation and his personal feelings and personal experience, and if I don’t like it - I can talk till I’m blue in the face.

by the way - that’s an expression that suggests a person is suffocating. So it’s like saying I can go jump off a bridge. Nice.
 

Happy

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You banned my boi marbles for a JOKE.
???wot???
There are like 15 active members...I would consider not banning of of the 12 that arent mods...
Marbles made an off cooor comment to this guy that was essentially “Go jump off a bridge”

and this moderator is saying that Angel’s treatment of me is like - ehn, no big deal - but telling someone to go jump off a bridge is SO NOT COOL so he banned marbles.
Don't move the goalposts. That's not what was said.
 

redbaron

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Marbles had actually successfull unhinged the argument and everyone was pretty much in good spirits at that point and making comments about his profile pic.

Angel kept trying to antagonize, but after Marbles comment he said something easy-going and then said he had to go.

then this mod comes along and decides to police us all out of nowhere and say that it’s becaue of his own personal views on the situation and his personal feelings and personal experience, and if I don’t like it - I can talk till I’m blue in the face.

by the way - that’s an expression that suggests a person is suffocating. So it’s like saying I can go jump off a bridge. Nice.
this is an impressive piece of revisionism

and yet even if it were true, none of it would excuse telling someone that they should be mutilated

(and for the sake of clarity, no you can't tell people that they should jump off a bridge either)
 

Inexorable Username

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@peoplesuck

anyways - that’s what happened. We don’t really know this guy redbaron...he’s just kind of come out of nowhere to ban people for infractions we feel (A) violate our rights, and (B) nobody has really seemed to give a fig about until now.

So thats where we stand. Nobody knows what happened with Kormak. People we don’t know are coming out of the woodwork all of the sudden to cause drama like Happy and Angel.

and basically, you will get banned for saying something off color - so watch yourself, right?
 

peoplesuck

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Discord hayro#2298 for anyone wanting to keep in touch..got rebis and marbles
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HA DET FUCKING BRA bitchs
 

Inexorable Username

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Sorry. That’s not what i
also: the Cambridge dictionary definition of "blue in the face"

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/until-you-are-blue-in-the-face

If you say or shout something until you are blue in the face, you are wasting your efforts because you will get no results
Sorry, my personal experience and philosophy begs to differ.

Anyways, I’m done with this. You’re rude and inconsiderate. You don’t seem to care about justice - justice is in exceptions. To be just is to understand the context of a situation and make judgements accordingly.

You just cherry-picked something out of context and said that that one sentence is never allowed to be uttered. So there’s no justice here - just black and whites.

we’re done. Ban me if it pleases you.
 

redbaron

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i mean, happy has been a member since 2013 and has over 1,000 posts. i've been a member since 2012 and have over 7,000 posts. that you don't know us has little to do with us being unknowable, and more the fact that you and the small number of people who are currently actively posting (which chops and changes over the years) simply haven't been around for long.

happy's opinion as a member is as relevant to the discussion as yours. from his, and a number of other people, this is not a simple matter of an, 'off colour' remark.

it's a behaviour (suggesting that someone should be mutilated) that they think is not okay on a discussion forum, and that they don't want to see repeated.
 

Inexorable Username

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Discord hayro#2298 for anyone wanting to keep in touch..got rebis and marbles
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HA DET FUCKING BRA bitchs
Lol. They will delete that. Maybe we all need to copy and paste it until they ban us all for daring to communicate outside of their bubble of control!! :vampire:
 

Happy

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So thats where we stand. Nobody knows what happened with Kormak. People we don’t know are coming out of the woodwork all of the sudden to cause drama like Happy and Angel.
Um... what? I'm not coming out of the woodwork. I'm an active member of this forum. Not very active, but active nonetheless.
 

redbaron

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Sorry, my personal experience and philosophy begs to differ.

Anyways, I’m done with this. You’re rude and inconsiderate. You don’t seem to care about justice - justice is in exceptions. To be just is to understand the context of a situation and make judgements accordingly.

You just cherry-picked something out of context and said that that one sentence is never allowed to be uttered. So there’s no justice here - just black and whites.

we’re done. Ban me if it pleases you.
you're right, i don't care about justice.

i care about the forum being a place where people can simply enjoy posting, and unless some severe breach of the rules or discourse occurs they don't have to be policed either.

i don't consider a place where people suggest others deserve mutilation, and then pull the "lol jk" card, to be a place that any reasonable and sane person would enjoy posting in for any prolonged period of time.

if you do, the doors at 4chan are always open.
 

redbaron

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Discord hayro#2298 for anyone wanting to keep in touch..got rebis and marbles
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HA DET FUCKING BRA bitchs
Lol. They will delete that. Maybe we all need to copy and paste it until they ban us all for daring to communicate outside of their bubble of control!! :vampire:
mods never have and never would bother deleting it

the basis of this entire thread is people who have posted on this forum for months without any form of censorship...to complain about censorship - and somehow the delusion has taken hold that we somehow actually were censoring people

marbles is the first person to be banned since before you even joined the forum
 

Inexorable Username

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@peoplesuck
So thats where we stand. Nobody knows what happened with Kormak. People we don’t know are coming out of the woodwork all of the sudden to cause drama like Happy and Angel.
Um... what? I'm not coming out of the woodwork. I'm an active member of this forum. Not very active, but active nonetheless.
Sorry then. I don’t recognize you and I’ve been pretty active. I apologize if I was mistaken.

anyways...I’m going to go pick up dinner before I get banned for voicing anarchist opinions. Someone suggested to me that the mods might ban me just for stirring up trouble.

guess that’s how it is here. We only get to talk if someone else feels what we’re saying isn’t personally offensive to them. Talk about walking on eggshells.

what just blows my mind is the fact that things were actually winding down BECAUSE of marbles. Everything was settling in. Angel was still mouthing off a bit but then they left. There was literally no issue.

but seeing as how this entire topic was started because of our concerns about moderators treating us poorly because they feel like it, and violating freedom of speech, and then in the midsts of it a moderator goes and bans the person who was actually responsible for settling everything down a bit - well I’m sure you can see why that’s upsetting.
 

Serac

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i care about the forum being a place where people can simply enjoy posting
Is this a new epiphany you've had, 7000 posts into your shitposting career? lmao

now we're gonna get all sanctimonious about that circumcision comment

good stuff
 

Inexorable Username

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Discord hayro#2298 for anyone wanting to keep in touch..got rebis and marbles
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HA DET FUCKING BRA bitchs
Lol. They will delete that. Maybe we all need to copy and paste it until they ban us all for daring to communicate outside of their bubble of control!! :vampire:
mods never have and never would bother deleting it

the basis of this entire thread is people who have posted on this forum for months without any form of censorship...to complain about censorship - and somehow the delusion has taken hold that we somehow actually were censoring people

marbles is the first person to be banned since before you even joined the forum
For no reason. Aside from the fact that you happened to be here and feeling particularly energetic I guess.

anyways, I’d rather not continue talking to you. Marbles is my friend and he didn’t deserve to be treated the way you treated him. I don’t particularly like you at the moment. I feel very fond of Marbles. I’m loyal to him. He’s been kind to me. The moderators - not so much.
 

redbaron

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i care about the forum being a place where people can simply enjoy posting
Is this a new revalation you've had, 7000 posts into your shitposting career? lmao

now we're gonna get all sanctimonious about that circumcision comment

good stuff
excuse me i shitpost only 69% of the time

also: had a comment like this been made in another context, i'd have banned the person in response there too. those comments are simply few and far between
 

redbaron

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For no reason. Aside from the fact that you happened to be here and feeling particularly energetic I guess.

anyways, I’d rather not continue talking to you. Marbles is my friend and he didn’t deserve to be treated the way you treated him. I don’t particularly like you at the moment. I feel very fond of Marbles. I’m loyal to him. He’s been kind to me. The moderators - not so much.
this makes a lot of sense actually

you're not approaching this argument from any rational sense of what should or shouldn't be allowed on a discussion forum: just who you do and don't happen to like at the time
 

peoplesuck

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RUSTY he said rusty scissors, Literally everyone knows its a joke if you say rust-sharp object-
its absurd that the sharp object needs to be rusty, cmon...cm..cmon?
 

Serac

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i care about the forum being a place where people can simply enjoy posting
Is this a new revalation you've had, 7000 posts into your shitposting career? lmao

now we're gonna get all sanctimonious about that circumcision comment

good stuff
excuse me i shitpost only 69% of the time

also: had a comment like this been made in another context, i'd have banned the person in response there too. those comments are simply few and far between
dude we both know I cannot be banned. Because if I'm banned, who is going to provide all that yummy righteous indignation?
 

redbaron

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i was referring to marbles' comment, not yours

there's no righteous indignation to be had here. it's simply not the kind of comment that should be commonplace on a discussion forum.
 

Inexorable Username

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i was referring to marbles' comment, not yours

there's no righteous indignation to be had here. it's simply not the kind of comment that should be commonplace on a discussion forum.
Well people who regularly post here disagree with you. As Peoples said - it is understood that it is not a serious comment.

Now if someone said that and meant it, especially if they confirmed it after the fact - rather than saying they didn’t seriously mean it - or especially if they threatened to do it - even if it was an empty threat, you may have a point.

As it stands, you have no point. There’s a reason computers aren’t chosen to moderate. Humans can exercise w sense of justice. Computer don’t understand context and culture. They can’t exercise judgement and justice.

As you rightly said though - you don’t care about justice. You only care about power. It’s like that Star Trek episode where they want to shoot Wesley for playing games with the other kids and accidentally stepping on the grass he wasn’t supposed to step on. And captain what’s-his-face whose acting I adore who loves the earl grey tea, said that without exceptions there is no justice.

As a moderator, it should be your responsibility to exercise judgement unbiased.

An appropriate response would have been to warn Marbles, in the conversation “Hey, you can’t say things like that here.”
To which Marbles would have responded, worst case scenario “It’s not like I was serious. I was joking”. And then he would have not repeated the behavior.

Instead of throwing me under the bus by turning my arguments on Marble’s behalf into a “report” - despite the fact that I’ve made my stance on censorship abundantly clear - you could have simply messaged me or posted in this form “Do you want to report Angel?”
To which I would have responded No.

Even now, you could have chosen to listen to the community’s feelings on this issue - people who are active in this forum and therefore, to whom someone else’s poor behavior matters most - afterall, we would be the “victims” of the repeat incidence, no?

Instead, you chose to not only ignore us, but make it abundantly clear that our opinion means nothing to you.

You also made it abundantly clear that my beliefs mean nothing to you, and that my feelings about another users behavior mean nothing to you - that one incidence isn’t relevant to you, personally, but you feel like another incidence is. Therefore, I don’t really have any cause to be upset.

The thing is - the active users you’re offending right now make up the bulk of the people who are actually currently using this form. Myself, marbles, Rebis, and peoplesuck. We all disagree with you, and your stance is, pardon my French, but essentially...
 

Inexorable Username

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“Go fuck yourselves.”

Now you didn’t have to hang onto this stance tooth and nail. You could have heard us out and had a civil discussion about it as a moderator should.

or you can throw your weight around and make us feel dominated and marginalized by you - and like our freedom to express ourselves isn’t safe as long as you’re policing our speech. Which you have now successfully done.
 

Hadoblado

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This whole thread is a shitshow built from nothing

bored forum best forum
 

Inexorable Username

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We don’t have to speak here. We can go speak somewhere else. We speak here because we like this community and we feel connected by our MBTIs. It’s a quite little space where we can come and feel free to express our thoughts.

You’ve made that space unsafe. Yes - unsafe. Because you’ve made it so that if someone makes a joking comment that you don’t like, you can take away access to their friends. Luckily we have a way to get around you - but if a person had been unprepared for your random, extreme behavior, they could have lost a lot of friends today.

You also made this a space where you, as a moderator, get to judge how someone should feel about the way their treated. Rather than getting the information from the horse’s mouth and letting them tell you how they feel and what they feel would be appropriate justice - you just judge the “crimes” as you see fit based on your personal feelings and emotions. Not logic. Just your experiences - and how you think other people, like me, should feel about theirs.
 

redbaron

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i was referring to marbles' comment, not yours

there's no righteous indignation to be had here. it's simply not the kind of comment that should be commonplace on a discussion forum.
Well people who regularly post here disagree with you. As Peoples said - it is understood that it is not a serious comment.
and there are people who regularly post here that agree. more actually, than those who disagree. call it a case of vocal minority. just because people post in this particular thread, doesn't mean they're the only voices that exist. not everyone wants to be involved in drama or arguments on the forum.

not that it's a popularity contest. i'd be putting this to a moderator discussion and vote regardless of popular opinion.

i have no doubt that suggestions people deserve to be mutilated is something that most reasonable people can agree doesn't require a place in debate.
 

redbaron

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We don’t have to speak here. We can go speak somewhere else. We speak here because we like this community and we feel connected by our MBTIs. It’s a quite little space where we can come and feel free to express our thoughts.

You’ve made that space unsafe. Yes - unsafe. Because you’ve made it so that if someone makes a joking comment that you don’t like, you can take away access to their friends.
ever stop to wonder how people who get told they deserve to be mutilated might feel on a discussion forum?

a little unsafe, maybe?

marbles is temp banned from an internet forum, not locked in a gulag.
 

Inexorable Username

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except that most reasonable people agree that it was not a serious comment, obviously, was not received as such, and was immediately recanted.

So if you would take a moment to stop being so biased, you might realize that there are multiple reasonable points of view here - and then, rather than being black and white, you could have an honest discussion about it.
 

redbaron

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i've let you have the last word, and now i'll be locking the thread.

it's well and truly beyond any productive conversation.

takeaway: don't suggest people deserve to be mutilated.

if you do, "lol jk" is not a viable defense.
 
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