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Do animals know we're more "intelligent/advanced"?

Synthetix

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If humans witnessed a species from another planet arrive with flying saucers for instance and a plethora of other technology that we didn't have, I believe most humans would consider that species more intelligent or advanced. So when certain animals, for insurance a dog or cat, see us and our gadgets, do they consider us more advanced than them?



How can you compare how much more advanced one species is from another? When chimpanzees use rocks to break something is that not very far from going to the moon? Would a species elsewhere in the universe consider us primitive for having only put one of our own on our moon as if it were a feat an adolescent in their society could accomplish?
 

Synthetix

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ProxyAmenRa

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I've witnessed the same behavior in humans.

true-story-neil-patrick-harris.png
 

Architect

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Interesting question. I guess it boils down to dominance for them. They probably don't recognize intelligence but they do mostly recognize that this hairless ape is more powerful.

Most of them do. Lions, tigers and bears (and the like) don't seem to feel the same way.
 

Synthetix

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Lions, tigers and bears could easily find out that they are physically more powerful, however they've been tamed and put into a position of submission by humans before. Would they recognize dominance even if not expressed by physical might? In chimpanzee groups the dominant male isn't always the strongest or biggest but usually the most cunning and manipulative.
 

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Lions, tigers and bears could easily find out that they are physically more powerful, however they've been tamed and put into a position of submission by humans before. Would they recognize dominance even if not expressed by physical might? In chimpanzee groups the dominant male isn't always the strongest or biggest but usually the most cunning and manipulative.

No I used that example because those animals are known for not being fully domesticated. Consider the Sigfriend and Roy tigers. One of them - Sigfried maybe, got his head torn off by one of the tigers. These are two experts on the animals who had worked with them for decades. For no apparent reason the tiger tore him apart and went on like nothing happened. He survived, mostly, and the show was permanently canceled. Another example of some guy working with bears in the wilderness who got killed by them.

Likewise sharks don't seem to consider us stronger/better, but they don't have a mammalian frontal cortex either.
 

Synthetix

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Apparently the tiger tried dragging him to safety after he fell, the way a mother would bite the neck area of her cubs to carry them off, thus the tiger didn't intentionally harm him. However, that doesn't discount the numerous times that animals from non-domesticated species have violently turned on their captors.

But another question, would a certain level of intelligence be required to identify intelligence? As you said, a shark's brain isn't mammalian and would be considered of inferior intelligence, so I guess that's why a shark wouldn't give a flying fuck about what a hairless ape is trying to do, they'd just attack.
 

Hayyel

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I don't think animals care about anything but surviving. Sure, they can recognize dominance, but they would probably do that as if you were a part of their pack. At least that's what I think.
 

Synthetix

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I don't think animals care about anything but surviving. Sure, they can recognize dominance, but they would probably do that as if you were a part of their pack. At least that's what I think.

Which animals though? Most humans only care about surviving, those not in a first world country, who would be the majority. Only very recently in human history have we had the luxury of not worrying about it that much.
 

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An intelligent adult dog and a young child work out to about the same intelligence level and from experience taking a dog to the vet can require some subterfuge, they don't seem to understand sentences but they can pick up what you're talking about by indervidual words and your overall tone. I once tried to interview a dog, a German/Belgium Shepard cross, a small bear of a dog, wonderful temperament, so I sat down with him and explained what I was doing and asked if he understood and if he did he should bark.

He didn't bark, but by the way he looked at me I could tell he knew I was talking to him, he knew I wanted him to do something, listening intently, studying my eyes, it's rare for a human to speak to a dog like this and he was unusually focused, but he didn't bark, he only reacted to key words and tone, so I think he might have been intelligent enough to understand me but a dog's brain just isn't wired that way, it would be like if someone was speaking to me in Japanese, I'm not fluent in the language but from key words and facial expressions I can deduce the gist of what's going on.

Do animals know we're more "intelligent/advanced"?
I don't think they think about it that way, there's this Australian newspaper comic called Footrot Flats and in it there's "The Dog" our protagonist and Wal who is his owner, at one point Wal is out in a paddock, catches a ewe and has to tie her up so he can go get his truck and take her off to market, but he's out in the middle of the paddock and has nothing on hand to tie her up with, a predicament the dog realises and finds amusing. So to Dog's surprise he takes off his belt and ties her up with that and as he ambles off to get the truck Dog follows along, mightily impressed by Wal's apparent foresight, while Wal is struggling to walk and keep his pants up.

I don't think cats & dogs think they're smarter than they are because I doubt they have a conceptual understanding of intelligence, when a dog sees a man fixing a fence he doesn't know why he's doing it, the dog doesn't know what the fence is for, but the dog doesn't care, to a dog a fence is just scenery, at most an obstacle.

But if a man is carrying fence fixing tools a dog will understand that he's a out to go fix a fence, it may even know where he's going if it knows of a section of fence that's obviously broken, but it won't guard that broken section to prevent animals getting through, or if it does you've got an excellent dog and you should make damn sure it breeds.

Cat's on the other hand, I used to live with a jet black Persian called Ebony and she was wonderful, if we were all sitting out on the deck playing UNO she would sit in an empty chair and we would take turns playing her hand. Of course she didn't understand what was going on but it was social and she wanted to be a part of it, not as a pet but as a person, mind you she was raised around people and rarely if ever interacted with other cats so she might have thought this was perfectly normal.
 

Montresor

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No I used that example because those animals are known for not being fully domesticated. Consider the Sigfriend and Roy tigers. One of them - Sigfried maybe, got his head torn off by one of the tigers. These are two experts on the animals who had worked with them for decades. For no apparent reason the tiger tore him apart and went on like nothing happened. He survived, mostly, and the show was permanently canceled. Another example of some guy working with bears in the wilderness who got killed by them.

Likewise sharks don't seem to consider us stronger/better, but they don't have a mammalian frontal cortex either.


oh my god.

A tiger tore his head off and he survived.


Look out Chuck Norris.
 

Duxwing

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oh my god.

A tiger tore his head off and he survived.


Look out Chuck Norris.

While waiting for the sun to come up (Chuck Norris doesn't sleep) Chuck Norris keeps his head by his bedside to terrify would-be assassins.

-Duxwing
 

Cherry Cola

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No they don't because they are too stupid, in whatever form some kind concept for intelligence may be part of their cognition it's just not fleshed out enough for them to be able to consider us more intelligent or advanced. My bet is that they have fewer but bigger and more generalized abstract concepts to orient themselves with. What their brain picks up as intelligent qualities in other beings is something that'll just be lumped into general prestige along with similar qualities. Animals aren't known for their precise abstract thinking, and it actually takes a lot of it to form a concept like intelligence, thus it gets lumped together with generally prestigious stuff.
 
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The bulk of the animal kingdom lacks the mental hardware and thought processes to do so. Consider that we're the only species to value intelligence to the degree that we do as opposed to brute force and/or fear.

Perhaps domestic animals do. Dogs, sheep, pigs. Prairie dogs...:
http://www.treehugger.com/natural-s...discovers-theyve-been-calling-people-fat.html

The key to identifying a higher power lies in identification/differentiation, right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1kXCh496U0&feature=player_embedded
"Fat guy in blue. On the left. Short and bald. Over."
 

Cognisant

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Playing back the prairie dog alarm calls, reminds me of some SCPs :phear:

Interestingly their "speech" is very efficient, an entire sentence of information being relayed in those short little bursts, that said the efficiency comes at the price of complexity, our language has thousands of words, hundreds of them commonly used, many of which have contextually changed meaning or can be changed by the tone in which it's spoken.

So it's no surprising that animals can't understand our abstract conversations, though we have the ability to deduce and reverse engineer their languages.
 

Vrecknidj

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Dogs, unlike many other animals, have developed, from wolves, over a relatively short period of time (say, geologically speaking). During the course of human evolution, in many places, dogs have lived with people, learning from them, learning how to associate with them, etc. There are many interesting attributes which they've developed because they've evolved via humanity. As a consequence, dogs have learned to "read" humans very well. They're better at understanding quite a few human behaviors than even chimps (and chimps are regularly understood to be more "intelligent" than dogs).

I think that the question deserves some attention, but, I think that we have to make distinctions between kinds of animals. There are huge differences between, for instance, a trout and a black bear. There are huge differences between a raven and a mosquito.

Some animals, particularly some domesticated animals (by which I recognize there is huge variety, from chickens to reindeer to cattle to dogs), probably are aware that they're not quite as mentally skillful as some of the humans they're with.

For instance, the dogs that are trained for military, police and rescue service probably recognize that their human trainers are smarter than they are. They probably also recognize that they're better at many tasks (detecting things by scent, etc.) than the humans are.

Dave
 

walfin

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Animals which are more intelligent know that we're more intelligent.

It takes intelligence to acknowledge one's lack of it.
 
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