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Google images paedophilic results

higs

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I'm sorry I don't even know where to put this but I'm horribly disturbed and I don't want to go back, but I at least kind of want to talk about it a bit and anonymous forum is the only thing I can think of. I typed in "teen porn" on google images to see what it would bring up and I didn't stay long but I think I can say with some certainty it churns out paedophilic images on the first page results, i don't want to make anyone go and check themselves but is there something one can do, i know they probably have some policy against this but Jesus Christ, how would they even check? I feel sick even posting this, if mods want to delete this thread and conversation can be moved to PM with anyone interested i get it, or move to a different section. Sorry, I just feel sick like I'm faced with the ugliest side of the world possible and I want to faze it out but then again I want to help somehow idk what the fuck man Jesus even if it's not paedophilic but made to look like it it humanity is fucking sick. I guess I just don't want to feel alone right now or something i should talk to someone irl or on the internet
 

Animekitty

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google always tells me to report child abuse.
supposedly google has a secret archive to scan for child porn and remove it from search results.
 

higs

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ur not helping by making crap jokes moron (@TMb)

@kitty I read they had that for emails, but if first page results seem to be innapropriate clearly it's not doing it's job, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have noticed.

Thing is I feel too sick to go back and report or analyze, I actually just burst into tears (which is not something I do much)
 

Reluctantly

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I'm pretty sure you can report stuff, but chances are whatever you are seeing is legal and they just look young. I've seen a guy marry a 20 year old that looked around 14. Everybody would ask him if she was even 18 and it would get awkward. I remember asking him if he got her parents permission to marry him, lol.

I don't know
 

higs

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I'm pretty sure you can report stuff, but chances are whatever you are seeing is legal and they just look young. I've seen a guy marry a 20 year old that looked around 14. Everybody would ask him if she was even 18 and it would get awkward. I remember asking him if he got her parents permission to marry him, lol.

I don't know
Yeah ofc that crossed my mind, but the thing is there were really quite a few images of the sort, and how would they even check ? Also the set up of the images was deliberately to make it look like they were under age which is sick in itself, i don't know there's definitely something ethical to discuss with porn and prostitution in general of course but more particularly with this.

I can't report anything right now I can't go back to it
 

Rixus

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I agree with Reluctantly that first page results are very unlikely to have anything illegal. There are teams picked with police forces who spend there time searching for illegal sites in order to catch them. Phys, those sites exist within the dark web - areas not linked to search engines that cannot be found except by invitation or those who really know how to look for them.

If I remember correctly (it's been a long time since I was teenager and porn interested me), then "teen porn" covers the 18-25 age range. Which kind of makes sense when you think that research shows the majority of users are younger men. That said, your are correct that it is severely fucked up that they chose women who look younger than they are and that they dress up as school girls and in pig tails. It doesn't make any sense, really. If simulated rape is illegal, and in this country it's illegal to show any graphic scene with a character under age even if the actress is over, then surely that should be. It can't be primarily because that's what users want - because I saw some statistics earlier in the year that showed that "teen" was far from the most common Search term for such viewing.

I have wondered where other INTP's fall on the moral spectrum, but never thought it a good subject to bring up. Extending it to prostitution (a bit strange that these subjects are kept separate as it's basically the same thing), I could never sleep with someone and know they were only the because they'd been paid and in no way enjoyed the experience.
 

Rixus

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God, I just ran the same search. I see exactly what you mean.
It might be that I'm 32 now and see someone who's 18-20 as still basically a child. But that was highly disturbing. Just set search filters to moderate. I have parental control filters set on all the Kurds equipment anyway, so I've never bothered checking what searches turn up.
 

higs

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Thank you so much for running the search and double checking, no, some of them look (or are chosen because they look) about 12 13 it seems. I wouldn't have freaked out if it didn't go that young. I just don't see how google can check the age. Maybe I'll report it, can't hurt to. Somehow it's gotten me out of my sickness to know that someone else has checked and agreed with me on some level. so really, thanks Rixus.

I know teen porn is meant to be "18/25", like you said it's the most researched type which is why I ran the search in the first place, in order to analyze the kind of image that came up.


I used to watch, but I'm basically anti prostitution (and by extension porn) for lots of reasons nowadays, including the reason you state, and I don't consume it, or at least I dislike the normalization it has nowadays, and most of the ways it is presented. Just saying this so people understand my reaction is generally not shock like it was for this when I come across it...whole other level of shit.
 

Rixus

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Since I think you're in Australia and I'm in the UK, there's no guarantee we would see the same results. But I just thought I couldn't really comment if I hadn't seen what you were commenting on. I don't want to take a second look - but they looked to be later teens at least and from what I know of online security, that sort of thing wouldn't be easily found.

My own experience of consuming is that I did so as a teenager, but had the odd experience of meeting a porn star when I was about 19. I seem to remember she was 30 or so and was doing an interview and I happened to be serving drinks at the venue. Not a show, just an interview. Anyway, while she was all confident on stage I happened to see her backstage and off guard. As such, the look in her eyes was quite haunting and prevented me from enjoying such things again because it led me on a train of thought about what leads a person to do this for a living, and I felt like I'd seen the truth. And some things can't be unseen.
 

higs

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I'm in France actually. The photos I was referring to definitely represented girls who at least looked in very early teens, that is 12,13 and 14. though it was not the majority, and this is excluding the ones who seemed later teens and dressed up to look like schoolgirls or whatever. Personally I was sexualized and hit on by random men on the street from the age of 12 about, not that it has much to do with this. Edit : actually I do, I wonder how much of that was due to material playing up to paedophilic fantasies (chicken and egg kind of thing).

Statistics show that a history of sexual abuse, drug abuse and PTSD is much more common within the sex industry than in the general population, and there's something quite fucked up about the commercialisation of sex. I guess I'd be alright with it if it was just people having sex and posting it because they got off on it, but the whole industry thing is screwed up as hell and I have no way of knowing if what I'm viewing is ethical or not, and I have absolutely no need of desire for it so I just stay away. I don't understand why the question of ethical porn is not as mainstream as discussions on prostitution, people have a way more blaze attitude of one and not the other (in general).
 

Jennywocky

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... I don't understand why the question of ethical porn is not as mainstream as discussions on prostitution, people have a way more blaze attitude of one and not the other (in general).
i don't know about that; where I grew up the two were seen as basically equivalent. (Heck, in the social area I was in, they're the folks who are like our VP Mike Pence and suggest you could be opening yourself to adultery if you eat a meal with a member of the opposite sex.) People were picketing adult bookstores in the area all the time, no porn was considered ethical.

There's definitely a "contact" difference and you can keep porn under wraps. But it falls into all the other areas where you're talking about adult freedom vs sex restrictions, and then you have people who abuse what privileges they do have, and the prostitution and porn industries are not operating in "idealized" fashion (where it's just a matter of "choice") but often involve people being exploited because they can be. So there is the "idealistic rationales" and then the hard realities that play into things...
 

higs

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Well, your background doesn't sound very mainstream when you consider how much of the internet is porn and how many people have consumed it or do on a regular basis. It's basically considered the norm to do so. Personally my stance is just to not to contribute to demand, I wouldn't advocate censorship, maybe regulation, workers rights, groups that can help people who are stuck in it reintegrate etc...eventually some kind of licence to be able to do it or something (not like training, more a psychological evaluation of some kind).
 

EyeSeeCold

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I'm not sure if ethical porn is possible. Even between consenting adults, the performers are seeking to satiate a vice for monetary or narcissistic gain and the watchers never satiate their vice due to addiction and/or a lack such intimate physical relations with other people. Perhaps you could have an educational show that discusses sex techniques, health issues and emotional matters, of course some would still find it offensive. What's twisted is that America readily displays all kinds of physical violence and moral depravity but really, a nipple is too much.

Anyway yeah what you're saying applies to strippers as well. Everyone just looks the other way as long as they get what they came for. I think it's fair to say half of the problem is the desperation for income to sustain oneself, and the other is abuse from a young age.

I'm in France actually. The photos I was referring to definitely represented girls who at least looked in very early teens, that is 12,13 and 14. though it was not the majority, and this is excluding the ones who seemed later teens and dressed up to look like schoolgirls or whatever. Personally I was sexualized and hit on by random men on the street from the age of 12 about, not that it has much to do with this. Edit : actually I do, I wonder how much of that was due to material playing up to paedophilic fantasies (chicken and egg kind of thing).
9 out of 10 raunch films with sex in them is either targeted at hormonal teens, or glorifies the barely legal status of 18 year old females. As you mentioned there is a fetishizing of schoolgirls which is pretty bizarre when you think about it, it's like the #1 search term for porn. Clearly there is a market for all of this, but we hardly address why it exists or why there is such a difference in society between males and females.


p.s. I was conditioned to think that France was more liberal in respect to romance and sex, do you think that has shaped your experiences in any way?
 

Adaire

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Well, that was even more nauseating than I expected higs.

Pornography makes me uncomfortable as well, especially in regards to its connections with human sex trafficking. Honestly, it's seems there's little hope. I've talked with multiple men that went to prostitutes regularly and it never occurred to any of them that there was a high likelihood of coercion or trafficking involved. They considered it harmless.
 

Rixus

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Yeah, I read a study that showed that 80% of sex industry workers had experienced childhood abuse, though the researcher noted that he had some evidence that the others interviewed had undergone some. Which is frightening, but when you think about it but then when you think about it, what would actually lead someone to seek this as a form of income? Most normal people couldn't stand this and I've never met a woman who could, so you have to think that something must be wrong on some level. This particular subject has interested me because by that logic I should be a lot more messed up than I actually am, but perhaps my experience wasn't as traumatic for me as it is for others. I think also I'm able to rationalise and understand the past a little better than most. People I've talked to don't understand why I don't feel rage about it, but understanding why dissipated that long ago. This is also why I happen to know a fair bit about the subject - I had to understand it to satisfy my own need for closure.

How could pron be ethical? Even in the case of consenting couples filming and posting their escapades, how could you guarantee that one party wasn't forcing the other? I've heard from many women how they became more sexualised when they were barely even teenagers, and this really worries me because I have two daughters. And if some man tried sexualising them at 12, I'm not sure if I could react calmly. I may view it as a serious threat.

Jenny, I agree that your experience isn't very representative of the modern world. In my world, it's fairly normal when your a teenager. Teenage boys all share with each other how where the good free sites are and they used to hand around DVD's with movies on them. This still happened when I was working on a factory floor for a short while, but I don't see any of it nowadays. Maybe because my office are predominantly more grown up now. But my experience of society is that it's fairly normal.
 

higs

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I'm not sure if ethical porn is possible. Even between consenting adults, the performers are seeking to satiate a vice for monetary or narcissistic gain and the watchers never satiate their vice due to addiction and/or a lack such intimate physical relations with other people.

p.s. I was conditioned to think that France was more liberal in respect to romance and sex, do you think that has shaped your experiences in any way?

Well, I think it could be possible to argue it can be ethical, I mean if it's just a couple who get off on having people watch thym or whatever, but the whole point is that you can never really know, and it's more likely that most people would rather not do something like that, and with the state of the industry and the world as it is, it's clearly a hotbed for abusive and dehumanizing behavior, plus some Kantian impulse inside me says that it shouldn't be morally acceptable to just use people for sexual pleasure and that it's a mechanism put in place in us for bonding (i'm not saying everyone should only fuck when in love or anything, just that it is some kind of intimate and personal experience, and buying it just seems like the culmination of quantifying capitalistic perversion.) But all that part is kind of personal. Maybe some people truly would like to make a living off selling sex, and how could I judge them for choosing to do so if it makes them fulfilled somehow ? It is conceivable...All the while, it is painfully obvious that they are a minority, and that the reasons for doing this are not generally benign. Anyway, I mostly agree with you. The fact that you call it a "Vice" is a strange catholic use of language (but we all have our language).

As for the French thing, I wouldn't know, it's a conception of France I've heard before, I'm not sure what it means tbh, it might just be an old cliché from times when there was rivalry between European countries, saying they're all lazy pleasure loving sluts or something haha. If i had to compare from my own limited experience, I thought the English adolescents I knew (I went to school in England for a bit) had a more unhealthy objectifying view of sex. I stayed away from all that culture and sex with any of those people, it instinctively repelled me. The way girls viewed and obsessed over their bodies or the way some guys would rate girls or talk about them like pieces of meat, saying they were stupid but fuckable, that if you ignored the face it would be nice or whatever, i remember a table of guys yelling out scores as we walked out of the dining hall, if only I had said something, I would now but I was too introverted/shy at the time. Now I have a good temper I know how to use in public in effective ways. But all this kind of behavior is cross cultural I am sure and it was that particular niche/class of person in England. And obviously there were some people who were absolutely fine as well, don't want to make it sound like everyone was a moron. Pretty sure it's age more than anything else, and it's just that I hit the school age where people get like that when I got to England. Culture is globalized, we all have the same music videos, tv shows, internet and porn.

@Adaire, yeah it takes massive amounts of effort, I've succeed somewhat with some people but it was a fight over long periods of time. Funny thing is I see a load of stuff about people worrying if it's good or bad for them (as clients or consumers) but very rarely taking into account whether it's good for the sellers (or products, whatever) which sort of blows my mind, total dehumanization somehow, very alien to me.

I find this all very hard to undestand, i think people who grew up before the 80's haven't seen to what extent all this has been driven into people's minds.

Why does this "barely legal" fetish exist is a good question, I'll be thinking about it.
 

redbaron

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reported
 

higs

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Thnx brother
 

Reluctantly

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So umm...on a potentially lighter note (or not), what were you doing looking up teen porn you sick pervert? hmmhmm :D
 

TheManBeyond

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This discussion dies from the very beggingin cuz porn is a performance by artists who have signed a contract.
All the consecuences derived from their professional relations in such burnt skin area are perfectly known by them.
The other day i read the pornstar Stoya (<3) accused his bf, the also pornstar James Deen, of rape, so did many other girl pornstars.
How is court supposedly gonna attack that problem?
Imagine a relationship between two porn stars when "love" doesn't get well with freedom, no matter how "open minded" you are.
About child porn, well it's bad, there are many wrong things in porn, like a extremely beautiful russian girl crying with 12 guys grabbing her like meat. But as i said before, it was their decission.
Gangs inside porn industry? more than obvious, but not much to do about it.

Btw, i don't know that much about pornstars or anything, i was reading about Marilyn Manson and i found he had a relationship with this girl.
One thing leads to another.
but yeah i watch porn. big deal.
 

QuickTwist

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I am scared to even try to search for "teen porn" in a web browser.
 

Reluctantly

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About porn being ethical though, I think it can be. There are women that get into porn for fun when they have master's degrees in a science and could make good money doing something else (they are rare though). Or people that make funny videos, like a guy in a bear suit having sex with someone. I mean I think it's funny. My friend used to find these kinds of things for a laugh. I guess it could be a fetish for some people, but that wasn't their target audience. Then there was a girl I worked with that would find porn outtakes because they were funny; I won't get into detail because meh. But I actually like seeing the behind the scene stuff like that because it's real.

But porn is weird. They make all these weird moaning noises that people don't make and do all this gross shit and it has zero romance and is just plainly fake. Then there's the whole male dominance thing. Honestly, I don't know why people like that sort of thing. Seeing people that are actually in love go at it is actually pretty erotic. But most people are pretty shy about sex and only have one partner, so eh oh well. Most people think I'm weird for wanting to watch...heh. Maybe it is, I don't know.
 

Jennywocky

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...But porn is weird. They make all these weird moaning noises that people don't make and do all this gross shit and it has zero romance and is just plainly fake. Then there's the whole male dominance thing. Honestly, I don't know why people like that sort of thing. Seeing people that are actually in love go at it is actually pretty erotic. But most people are pretty shy about sex and only have one partner, so eh oh well. Most people think I'm weird for wanting to watch...heh. Maybe it is, I don't know.
A lot of it is shit, like you've said -- it's fake and forced, like an alien's idea of what "hot sex" should be like. Unreal stuff. It's like listening to people with no musical ability singing karaoke and not realizing they can't sing.

I'll watch clips on occasion, but typically only if it's like two people who are really into each other and it feels authentic rather than staged. I notice too for me that -- out of the two of the following options -- I get far more turned on by an audio track without a picture, versus a picture without audio. I think the authenticity (or lack of it) comes more through the sound for me, that's where the "life" and connection is...
 

EyeSeeCold

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This discussion dies from the very beggingin cuz porn is a performance by artists who have signed a contract.
All the consecuences derived from their professional relations in such burnt skin area are perfectly known by them.
The other day i read the pornstar Stoya (<3) accused his bf, the also pornstar James Deen, of rape, so did many other girl pornstars.
How is court supposedly gonna attack that problem?
Imagine a relationship between two porn stars when "love" doesn't get well with freedom, no matter how "open minded" you are.
About child porn, well it's bad, there are many wrong things in porn, like a extremely beautiful russian girl crying with 12 guys grabbing her like meat. But as i said before, it was their decission.
Gangs inside porn industry? more than obvious, but not much to do about it.

Btw, i don't know that much about pornstars or anything, i was reading about Marilyn Manson and i found he had a relationship with this girl.
One thing leads to another.
but yeah i watch porn. big deal.

Company GDP is currently being sued by several women who claim that GDP lied to them about the nature of contract, in that they're told the video will only be sold on DVD to private buyers in Australia. According to the plaintiffs, once the women were persuaded to agree and rushed to sign, some while cornered by several men in a hotel, the performer would not stop even after they mentioned the sex hurting and the shoot would last hours in the hotel room. GDP uses a front company called bubblegum modeling which they use to prove that they're legit and even get the bubblegum models to assuage the doubts of the GDP women. The case is made problematic by the fact that GDP utilizes about a dozen single purpose LLCs to obfuscate ownership and liability.

"Oops looks like they signed a contract, case closed" is a terrible excuse for giving up on society that only helps to reveal why the current mode of capitalism is such a shitty system to live in. Yeah so the women agreed to porn, did they agree to worldwide distribution? I mean that is literally fraud if GDP lies. As a music artist there are tons of cases you might know of where artists get screwed over by record label contracts.

Like the earlier discussions it's pretty crazy that you could be recruited for porn or stripping while still in highschool just because you turned 18. As if people don't remember how invincible they felt and shortsighted they were at that age.
 

higs

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So umm...on a potentially lighter note (or not), what were you doing looking up teen porn you sick pervert? hmmhmm :D
Pure detached curiosity :) I don't consume it, I'm not confortable with the commercialization of sex, like I said higher up. I wanted to see the kind of ages and images a first page google search churned up.

I will let you all decide for yourself whether it's ethical or not, like I said, I think it can conceivably be. I think mostly it's not. I'll leave you with this, covers all perspectives with more nuance than anything any of us could say probably, I can't discuss this stuff anymore it drives me fucking mental @all.


https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminist-sex-markets/
 

EyeSeeCold

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I am scared to even try to search for "teen porn" in a web browser.
It's too late, your web history already includes "Google images paedophilic results". Heh, I wonder what that is doing for intpf's SEO results.
 

TheManBeyond

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Company GDP is currently being sued by several women who claim that GDP lied to them about the nature of contract, in that they're told the video will only be sold on DVD to private buyers in Australia. According to the plaintiffs, once the women were persuaded to agree and rushed to sign, some while cornered by several men in a hotel, the performer would not stop even after they mentioned the sex hurting and the shoot would last hours in the hotel room. GDP uses a front company called bubblegum modeling which they use to prove that they're legit and even get the bubblegum models to assuage the doubts of the GDP women. The case is made problematic by the fact that GDP utilizes about a dozen single purpose LLCs to obfuscate ownership and liability.

"Oops looks like they signed a contract, case closed" is a terrible excuse for giving up on society that only helps to reveal why the current mode of capitalism is such a shitty system to live in. Yeah so the women agreed to porn, did they agree to worldwide distribution? I mean that is literally fraud if GDP lies. As a music artist there are tons of cases you might know of where artists get screwed over by record label contracts.

Like the earlier discussions it's pretty crazy that you could be recruited for porn or stripping while still in highschool just because you turned 18. As if people don't remember how invincible they felt and shortsighted they were at that age.
I don't know exactly every case in which these people of porn industry are involved and i didn't say they don't have the right to denounce. I said that as a general rule, they at least know about the risks they are taking. We are talking about porn industry not record labels, there's a huge gap of risk between them.
I do know a band which used to rehearsal next to our room which signed a contract with a German underground label, they paid the trip to record the album there, they gave them the studio and a producer, after that they didn't recieved more than about 20 copies of the album and no promotion, no support or marketing whatsoever. That's why i don't want to have anything to do with labels. Everyone is a fucking vulture.
Also i really wish i could understand what's the need of doing something like this when you are a small band. Marketing is important but first shit, you need to get in a band and play everywhere, get at least 20.000 likes on your Facebook website, Instagram and such, make some noise, wait for someone to call you to play in some festival because they need you even if they wouldn't really mind and or they wouldn't call, you can sense if there's a feeling in the air. Then sure, perhaps a contract is useful. But as i heard from them it was something that they always dreamt about doing.
Well there you have a piece of reality.
I'm always told by people, have you sent demos to labels? i'm like, we are no one. Why should i? why should they care?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O-6bEziQlE
 

Hadoblado

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I'm fairly certain at least some of those girls are underage.

I actually looked it up, saw mostly adult women dressed young, and wrote a post telling you off for being so hyperbolic. Then someone agreed with you and I went and checked again... I must have written the search term poorly the first time because the second results were far worse.

I don't really know where I stand on this issue, I'm admittedly somewhat naive.
1 - If non-practicing paedophiles were denied child or child-like porn, would they be driven to offend more?
2 - Is it possible to regulate the porn industry in such a way that it is verifiably consensual?
3 - If most porn actresses have been molested as a child, does that actually mean they should not be in porn? It's certainly a frightening statistic, but are they actually more vulnerable than someone who has not been molested? I guess what I'm asking is, if molestation causes vulnerability, why do these people then end up in porn supposedly voluntarily? What's the mechanism?

@TMB
You seem to have very strange opinions in this area.
About child porn, well it's bad, there are many wrong things in porn, like a extremely beautiful russian girl crying with 12 guys grabbing her like meat. But as i said before, it was their decission.
A child gave their consent to 12 men gangfucking her? But she was extremely beautiful and it was her decision so it's okay? I'm a little confused as to how you think this would be alright. Would you let any child you know 'decide' to do this?
 

TheManBeyond

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oh my god hold your sticks and flames, i'm not doing any witchery

i wasn't talking about a teenager, i was talking about Katerina Hartlova

and i wasn't saying it is ok that girls sign contracts and end up as sexual slaves and ruin their lifes
i was refering to the problem about Stoya and James Deen i mentioned
and how hard it is to deal with this things
WHEN THE FUCK DID I SAY IT TEENAGE PORN IS COOL?
and i don't watch any fucking teenage porn wtf
fuck off you and others putting words on me
 

QuickTwist

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It's too late, your web history already includes "Google images paedophilic results". Heh, I wonder what that is doing for intpf's SEO results.
Yes, curious indeed.
 

QuickTwist

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Just realized this was under Science and Technology... OK... :confused:
 

Kuu

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Oh you think that's bad? You do not want to learn about The Dutroux Affair then...
 

EyeSeeCold

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I don't know exactly every case in which these people of porn industry are involved and i didn't say they don't have the right to denounce. I said that as a general rule, they at least know about the risks they are taking. We are talking about porn industry not record labels, there's a huge gap of risk between them.
I do know a band which used to rehearsal next to our room which signed a contract with a German underground label, they paid the trip to record the album there, they gave them the studio and a producer, after that they didn't recieved more than about 20 copies of the album and no promotion, no support or marketing whatsoever. That's why i don't want to have anything to do with labels. Everyone is a fucking vulture.
Also i really wish i could understand what's the need of doing something like this when you are a small band. Marketing is important but first shit, you need to get in a band and play everywhere, get at least 20.000 likes on your Facebook website, Instagram and such, make some noise, wait for someone to call you to play in some festival because they need you even if they wouldn't really mind and or they wouldn't call, you can sense if there's a feeling in the air. Then sure, perhaps a contract is useful. But as i heard from them it was something that they always dreamt about doing.
Well there you have a piece of reality.
I'm always told by people, have you sent demos to labels? i'm like, we are no one. Why should i? why should they care?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O-6bEziQlE
I don't think many 18 year olds tend to fully appreciate the consequences of anything though(and this is aside from being lied to). You have a good mind towards labels, not everyone does though. Some will take what you said about social media and think that's why a label is the only way to go and that they better take whatever they can get. Either way I didn't intend to put anything in your mouth (:angel:), I was just commenting on what you wrote.
 

Hadoblado

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oh my god hold your sticks and flames, i'm not doing any witchery

i wasn't talking about a teenager, i was talking about Katerina Hartlova

and i wasn't saying it is ok that girls sign contracts and end up as sexual slaves and ruin their lifes
i was refering to the problem about Stoya and James Deen i mentioned
and how hard it is to deal with this things
WHEN THE FUCK DID I SAY IT TEENAGE PORN IS COOL?
and i don't watch any fucking teenage porn wtf
fuck off you and others putting words on me
Calm down. I'm referring specifically to the end bit:
But as i said before, it was their decission.
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. You say that it's bad and wrong, but then say it's their decision which I was taking to imply that at some level you think that makes it okay.

I mean:

This discussion dies from the very beggingin cuz porn is a performance by artists who have signed a contract.
All the consecuences derived from their professional relations in such burnt skin area are perfectly known by them.
Am I misinterpreting you? Because if I am, I think it's reasonable for me to have drawn the conclusions I did from the things that you have said, but I'm open to you setting me straight. No need for caps-lock.
 

The Gopher

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Hmm. When I type in Teen Porn I only get males....

I remember hearing somewhere that for most major sites you need some kinda of ID for age verification but you could totally fake that. It's probably more the user powered sites you need to watch out for.
 

higs

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I'm fairly certain at least some of those girls are underage.

I actually looked it up, saw mostly adult women dressed young, and wrote a post telling you off for being so hyperbolic. Then someone agreed with you and I went and checked again... I must have written the search term poorly the first time because the second results were far worse.

I don't really know where I stand on this issue, I'm admittedly somewhat naive.
1 - If non-practicing paedophiles were denied child or child-like porn, would they be driven to offend more?
2 - Is it possible to regulate the porn industry in such a way that it is verifiably consensual?
3 - If most porn actresses have been molested as a child, does that actually mean they should not be in porn? It's certainly a frightening statistic, but are they actually more vulnerable than someone who has not been molested? I guess what I'm asking is, if molestation causes vulnerability, why do these people then end up in porn supposedly voluntarily? What's the mechanism?

@TMB
You seem to have very strange opinions in this area.

A child gave their consent to 12 men gangfucking her? But she was extremely beautiful and it was her decision so it's okay? I'm a little confused as to how you think this would be alright. Would you let any child you know 'decide' to do this?
Yeah honestly I wouldn't have freaked out otherwise, I'm used to regular pornography images they don't shock me, although after this the whole dressed up as school girls thing has taken on a whole new dimension of fucking creepy and fucked up, I didn't even think about it before.

1-I don't know, you could theorize that stimulating the desire with images would make them offend more. Plus if the images are real then they exist because of demand so demand for images directly creates the abuse. I don't know where I would stand on cgi child porn or sex robots. I would have to think about it. In my experience I am practically 100% sure porn generally does affect desire itself and actually creates specific demands and fantasies, people are introduced to things they wouldn't have thought of and then want more, what do you think ? How would you test this ? I will look for studies.


2-You would have to have a good social system in place that effectively eliminates poverty, so kind of utopia, then you should have psychological tests or licences to acquire or something, and very strict penalties for people who make it without conforming to standards.

3-It simply shows that it is damaged behavior. Psychological studies show that child abuse leads sometimes to a complete rejection of sex, but more frequently a kind of hypersexual behavior, ptsd and most of all dissociation from the body and sex. However, even knowing this, I might not necessarily declare it unethical because I can conceive of someone dealing with the trauma by taking back power over their sex life, if they had such a conception...I'm not sure...I'm not going to judge someone who says they really chose it amongst several options and it makes them feel good basically.
Again, my knowledge is limited.


Just realized this was under Science and Technology... OK... :confused:
Well it concerns Google which is a technology and the filtering of its search results, i thought about posting directly in the oubliette, the lounge seemed too...chill for the state I was in... where would u have put it ?
 

The Gopher

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Well it concerns Google which is a technology and the filtering of its search results, i thought about posting directly in the oubliette, the lounge seemed too...chill for the state I was in... where would u have put it ?
Tech works fine but we also have human relationships/psychology and even philosophy depending on how you want it to go. Honestly it works in most if not all of those categories.
 

Rixus

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I don't really know where I stand on this issue, I'm admittedly somewhat naive.
1 - If non-practicing paedophiles were denied child or child-like porn, would they be driven to offend more?
2 - Is it possible to regulate the porn industry in such a way that it is verifiably consensual?
3 - If most porn actresses have been molested as a child, does that actually mean they should not be in porn? It's certainly a frightening statistic, but are they actually more vulnerable than someone who has not been molested? I guess what I'm asking is, if molestation causes vulnerability, why do these people then end up in porn supposedly voluntarily? What's the mechanism?
1 - According to what I've read on the subject - no. It normalises the urges they are apparently feeling and leads to escalation, plus usually connecting with other such people which again normalises it and makes them more likely to engage in predatory actions. Personally, I think people who feel such urges should be encouraged to come forward and seek psychological help. From what I understand, these people have usually been found to have been victims themselves and are repeating the cycle for reasons I don't fully understand. I believe it has to do with regaining lost power or normalisation and an a very warped belief that this is how they should show love to children. But apparently, only a small proportion of victims will do this. At the pre-action stage psychological can help; and since this protects them from harming children entirely I think it a good approach, so long as they have never engaged in any harmful acts.

2 - I'm not sure. I haven't worked out a way that would work in the real world. And I think realistically, it's going to exist and maybe it's better in that way that it be legal so that it can be policed and monitored. Otherwise it would just go underground. I have read of underground areas of porn on the internet where, for example,
someone would have to perform in order to pay for the arrangements of their illegal immigration; I think this shows that regulation of the industry is necessary.

3 - I'm not sure vulnerability is the right word. If the statistics are to be believed, then one must ask why this is true. And also what exactly are people watching? Theoretically, there's nothing wrong with watching someone enjoying a consensual act if it gives them a thrill to be watched. And maybe this is so, but not from what I have read or been told of the subject. In perfectly legal and properly regulated performances, no one is forcing them to to do it. They had to search out the industry themselves and apply, and I would assume this takes at least some effort. What you have to ask is "why?" Why would they? I've never met a woman who would want to or could stand to have a stranger(s) screw their brains out in front of a camera for money. Maybe some do it for thrills or to quickly pay off their student loans.

But the ones that were abused as children (which are statistically the majority), they are doing it because someone who was meant to take care of them as a child wanted to take that from them, and they came to the belief that it is all anyone wants from them. Which everyone consistently reinforces by masturbating over it. But there's a power aspect - they believe they're taking the power back by controlling it to an extent. But it never works that way, it only reinforces the belief that they are not worth anything more. I've only been told this - and I can't say for certain it's true. I know that childhood abuse can severely warp a persons thinking, but I guess my Fe isn't strong enough to fully put myself in that position and understand it. But it is strong enough that I can't in good conscience risk contributing to that.
 

higs

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Honestly you people might find this quite weird but I think all this has something to do with some neotenic traits in females and sexual selection mechanism gone wrong coupled with a long time culture of female objectification, leading to reinforcement of fantasies that are socially deemed inappropriate and therefore pushed away from the public eye to niches like porn websites where people pre disposed to this neothenic attraction gone haywire can feed stimulate and develop their fantasies as they please, also get to feel like it's normal. This is a jumbled post in a rush.

Neoteny is very interesting.
 

TheManBeyond

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yeah neoteny also explains people hiring assasins to kill people, record the process and then sell it to someone via deep web.
thanks, neoteny explains a lot.
 

higs

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Is there a joke somewhere in there I'm missing xplain more plz
 

TheManBeyond

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i'm saying that neoteny doesn't have anything to do with this
"man are stadistically more attracted to younger women faces who are also less intimidating and such."
damn i was so blind. makes a lot of sense.
plain bullshit.

side note
i'm actually attracted to Marine Le Pen, she looks visceral as fuck.
 

higs

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Re: Google images paedophilic result

So how else would you explain the existence of paedophilia apart from some neotenic impulse? If there is something in the brain wired to make us find some neotenic features attractive, there is no reason you can't conceive of some pathology issued from it going a bit wrong or too far or something. Most pasdophiles are men statistically, however, females can have it too. Obviously most of society reviles paedophilia, not saying we are all latent paedophiles, neoteny is distinct from paedophilia, it's the conservation of SOME young characteristics into adulthood, not total childlike appearance.

Sorry but it's true, women do have neotenic features, probably because our youth is fertility and shit like that.

I get that some guys have a preference for LePen, particularly the ones who think trump is "cool af" :-D. I get what u mean tho there's something about her, especially her voice. I'm not talking bout you I'm talking about General evolutionary tendencies.

But, i am willing to say that all this is complete bullshit if I am provided with an explanation, tell me why is there a little girl barely legal school girl fetish when the same cannot be said for adult women liking schoolboys ? Why have men been hitting on me since age 12 and many females I know whereas my male friends do not report the same experiences. Funnily enough one does but he had long hair and was rather "pretty" in his own words. Am I pissing you off or do you just not understand ? Am I making up sick shit in my head ? Does what I say bother you ? Maybe I am mad, I'm sure I am.
 

Kuu

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I suspect pedophilia has a heavy "power tripping" component to it more than a simple neotenic attraction. Some sick people abuse children way, way younger than early teens...

why is there a little girl barely legal school girl fetish when the same cannot be said for adult women liking schoolboys ?.
Perhaps because female fertility declines considerably with age, while male fertility declines to a much lesser degree? So males seek females for mating at their best reproductive age?
 

TheManBeyond

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Re: Google images paedophilic result

So how else would you explain the existence of paedophilia apart from some neotenic impulse? If there is something in the brain wired to make us find some neotenic features attractive, there is no reason you can't conceive of some pathology issued from it going a bit wrong or too far or something. Most pasdophiles are men statistically, however, females can have it too. Obviously most of society reviles paedophilia, not saying we are all latent paedophiles, neoteny is distinct from paedophilia, it's the conservation of SOME young characteristics into adulthood, not total childlike appearance.

Sorry but it's true, women do have neotenic features, probably because our youth is fertility and shit like that.

I get that some guys have a preference for LePen, particularly the ones who think trump is "cool af" :-D. I get what u mean tho there's something about her, especially her voice. I'm not talking bout you I'm talking about General evolutionary tendencies.

But, i am willing to say that all this is complete bullshit if I am provided with an explanation, tell me why is there a little girl barely legal school girl fetish when the same cannot be said for adult women liking schoolboys ? Why have men been hitting on me since age 12 and many females I know whereas my male friends do not report the same experiences. Funnily enough one does but he had long hair and was rather "pretty" in his own words. Am I pissing you off or do you just not understand ? Am I making up sick shit in my head ? Does what I say bother you ? Maybe I am mad, I'm sure I am.
sorry i was at job couldn't think of anything interesting as a reply there
i fail to see how a theory/evidence, call it as u wish in the evolution field could explain paedophilia, i might relate it to fantasies because of some trauma, parent-son relationship? wanting to have control over some old you? i have no clue, really
since i'm not an expert on the case here's what Wikipedia says:

Although what causes pedophilia is not yet known, researchers began reporting a series of findings linking pedophilia with brain structure and function, beginning in 2002. Testing individuals from a variety of referral sources inside and outside the criminal justice system as well as controls, these studies found associations between pedophilia and lower IQs,[46][47][48] poorer scores on memory tests,[47] greater rates of non-right-handedness,[46][47][49][50] greater rates of school grade failure over and above the IQ differences,[51] lesser physical height,[52] greater probability of having suffered childhood head injuries resulting in unconsciousness,[53][54] and several differences in MRI-detected brain structures.[55][56][57] They report that their findings suggest that there are one or more neurological characteristics present at birth that cause or increase the likelihood of being pedophilic. Some studies have found that pedophiles are less cognitively impaired than non-pedophilic child molesters.[58] A 2011 study reported that pedophilic child molesters had deficits in response inhibition, but no deficits in memory or cognitive flexibility.[59] Evidence of familial transmittability "suggests, but does not prove that genetic factors are responsible" for the development of pedophilia.[60] A 2015 study indicated that pedophilic offenders have a normal IQ.[61]

Another study, using structural MRI, indicated that male pedophiles have a lower volume of white matter than a control group.[55] Functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) has indicated that child molesters diagnosed with pedophilia have reduced activation of the hypothalamus as compared with non-pedophilic persons when viewing sexually arousing pictures of adults.[62] A 2008 functional neuroimaging study notes that central processing of sexual stimuli in heterosexual "paedophile forensic inpatients" may be altered by a disturbance in the prefrontal networks, which "may be associated with stimulus-controlled behaviours, such as sexual compulsive behaviours". The findings may also suggest "a dysfunction at the cognitive stage of sexual arousal processing".[63]

Blanchard, Cantor, and Robichaud (2006) reviewed the research that attempted to identify hormonal aspects of pedophiles.[64] They concluded that there is some evidence that pedophilic men have less testosterone than controls, but that the research is of poor quality and that it is difficult to draw any firm conclusion from it.

While not causes of pedophilia themselves, childhood abuse by adults or comorbid psychiatric illnesses—such as personality disorders and substance abuse—are risk factors for acting on pedophilic urges.[6] Blanchard, Cantor, and Robichaud addressed comorbid psychiatric illnesses that, "The theoretical implications are not so clear. Do particular genes or noxious factors in the prenatal environment predispose a male to develop both affective disorders and pedophilia, or do the frustration, danger, and isolation engendered by unacceptable sexual desires—or their occasional furtive satisfaction—lead to anxiety and despair?"[64] They indicated that, because they previously found mothers of pedophiles to be more likely to have undergone psychiatric treatment,[53] the genetic possibility is more likely.

A study analyzing the sexual fantasies of 200 heterosexual men by using the Wilson Sex Fantasy Questionnaire exam determined that males with a pronounced degree of paraphilic interest (including pedophilia) had a greater number of older brothers, a high 2D:4D digit ratio (which would indicate low prenatal androgen exposure), and an elevated probability of being left-handed, suggesting that disturbed hemispheric brain lateralization may play a role in deviant attractions.[65]

about marine le pen and trump, i like both of them, their personalities and their drive and push, and for Trump, i find him extremely funny, i don't really know about their ideas, some i like some i don't
Le Pen is sexy, same for May :D i have a tendency to be attracted by hard women

i'm sorry about acting a bit like an asshole, i am just sick of job and haven't slept more than 5 hours per day the last 2 weeks
 

Reluctantly

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Re: Google images paedophilic result

...
A study analyzing the sexual fantasies of 200 heterosexual men by using the Wilson Sex Fantasy Questionnaire exam determined that males with a pronounced degree of paraphilic interest (including pedophilia) had a greater number of older brothers, a high 2D:4D digit ratio (which would indicate low prenatal androgen exposure), and an elevated probability of being left-handed, suggesting that disturbed hemispheric brain lateralization may play a role in deviant attractions.[65]
I've heard same thing for MTF transgenders (minus the brother thing); it's true for me anyway. I guess I'm lucky I'm not a pedophile, thank god. I think if I was, I'd just castrate myself or something, so I wouldn't have to deal with it.
 

higs

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Re: Google images paedophilic result

sorry i was at job couldn't think of anything interesting as a reply there
i fail to see how a theory/evidence, call it as u wish in the evolution field could explain paedophilia, i might relate it to fantasies because of some trauma, parent-son relationship?



about marine le pen and trump, i like both of them, their personalities and their drive and push, and for Trump, i find him extremely funny, i don't really know about their ideas, some i like some i don't
Le Pen is sexy, same for May :D i have a tendency to be attracted by hard women

i'm sorry about acting a bit like an asshole, i am just sick of job and haven't slept more than 5 hours per day the last 2 weeks
Oh my god someone actually said "I'm sorry about acting a bit like an asshole" on this forum to someone else, this is a historic day. (it's fine TMB ur comment did not offend me though my post perhaps suggests it did, I understand TMB is just being TMB and I accept the TMBness.) also I have been really focused on the sexiness of Marine LePen since u wrote ur comment, and I have made several people realize they find her attractive now so thanks for opening my eyes on racist far right sexiness :D my boyfriend when he sees posters of her now says "she visceral as fuck" haha

Trump is pretty funny, awful as well, but funny.


Take it this way though, there's no persistent pathology of attraction to leaves or rocks (at least I don't think so) paedophilic elements are quite common (such as this barely legal school girl thing) even if it's mostly not pure paedophilia, which is rarer. But the fact that it's a fairly common deviance means it could very well stem from evolutionary elements and mechanisms, otherwise it just wouldn't be there at all (like attraction to birds specifically or whatever). I suspect it may be far more common than gerontophilia for example (though I might be wrong).

I think it's a persistent pathology and so legitimate to look at it from an evolutionary perspective. It means that our sexual attraction may not rigidly be implemented on sight of signals of adulthood (I mean, obviously they mostly are otherwise we would be out as a species) or that adulthood and childhood features may be mixed in some ways in what triggers sexual attraction for various reasons, which is neotenic theory. This would argue that sexual selection in females was for youth and fertility as I noted and Kuu felt the need to specify a second time in his post, which means they conserved SOME childlike physical features such as flatter faces, less hair, larger eyes, smaller noses, rounder faces which must now on some level have become a signal of femaleness to males. So, men will tend to find these features attractive (combined with the classic fertility stuff of boobs and wide hips :D), which explains that if you're hard wired kind of wrong in some way (I'm not a neuroscientist) or socially conditioned then you focus on these child like qualities more than the usual sexual maturity thing of boobs, large shoulders or whatever it is that makes adult humans look like adults. (Just like females can be attracted to males and females they can also implement these mechanisms, because neoteny affects both sexes eventually, men have developed some neotenia because they inherit some appearance from females as well, and females could also TO some extent implement this preference. I read somewhere that the "ideal" female face was large eyes flat nose small jawline (which are more childlike features) combined with fuller lips and higher cheekbones (which are adult like features), which actually just immediately made me think of kate moss and Brigitte Bardot, and I have to say, my own facial features to some extent (i'm not complimenting myself, I'm saying I observe feminine features on my face) Anyway, thank god we actually do care about charisma and personality and develop cultural individual preferences (hence LePen being sexy to you and me).

Anyway there is a cross over between what are feminine and child like features which actually might explain some of our cultural tendencies in the past or present to infantilise women.

@Reluctantly oh are you trans ? I've always wondered what that was like in first person, how the dysphoria manifests, to feel phenomenologically like ur the other sex or not in the correct body, it must be strange.
 

Reluctantly

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Re: Google images paedophilic result

@Reluctantly oh are you trans ? I've always wondered what that was like in first person, how the dysphoria manifests, to feel phenomenologically like ur the other sex or not in the correct body, it must be strange.
Well...I mean I don't know what most people say, but for me it's a combination of things ranging from

*having to dress and act like a man - it's unnatural and I don't like having to dress masculine; it feels bad, like I'm lying to people and have to play the role, which I don't even want to. And even somethibg like getting a compliment is depressing, because it reminds you how you aren't being yourself.

*Physical attraction - a straight girl or gay guy doesn't want to hear that you have disphoria; it's like lying to them and it's shitty feeling not being able to present your actual self. Makes being intimate with someone anxiety-filled

*Sex - it's frustrating to subconsciously see myself as the other gender. Like imagine a guy always having gotten off on the thought of being penetrated, yet you have the equipment for penetration, if that makes sense. And it's something that was always there, since puberty (well actually before that too...)

*Emotions - a guy expects other guys to have a common masculine relatedness. Could be anything from having a certain callousness of emotions to a ridicule or indifference of emotional sensitivity and nuance. It's a kind of bonding thing to have something in common like this. Cept I had to learn those things. Part of the reason why I considered I might be Aspergers, but I pretty much doubt that now in light of realizing I'm trans.

*relating with women - basically I pretty much only relate emotionally with women and never with men. A lot of the stereotypes for men never fit, yet the feminine ones did. Bit of a mindfuck. At one point I considered calling myself a "male lesbian" in seriousness, not the joking way that guys say they are lesbian.

I don't know. It's just all very anxiety-filled, like you have to live a life that isn't natural to you.
 
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