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Induldge yourself with some Kantian Liberation!

SpaceYeti

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Tell me, how does one prove the state of being that one is in?
That depends entirely on the state we're discussing, but relevant evidence works in any case. If there is no evidence, then there's no way to prove it, and there's no reason to go around making bold claims instead of simply being in that state.

If you want to prove it, then define it, and then provide evidence.
 

Milo

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The state of enlightenment is a state when one accepts all the facts. One does not even think because he/she is not afraid of the truth and knows there is nothing more that he/she can know. Thinking is a way of dealing with the truth to manipulate it in some why for one's self or to protect one's identity or emotions or some other psychological thing that one is attached to.

One can calm one's mind by finding out what knowledge is and the limits of it. If one realizes that thinking brings nothing but pain (yes even on the journey to the truth) then one may finally justify quieting the voice in one's head.

You do not think, you just react.

Even the words I write now do not have to be thought about. They just occur naturally to me.
 

SpaceYeti

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Ah, I see! Do not critically examine your beliefs! Okay, you can keep your enlightenment. I'll take my unlightenment over it any day of the week.
 

Milo

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What if I told you I no longer rely on a belief system?
 

redbaron

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What if I told you I no longer rely on a belief system?
Neither do I. What's significant about this? It's nothing special.
 

Milo

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A lot of people do once they've thought deep into their own psyche. Some people don't get deep enough to discover how their own mind works to the point that it becomes unstable where any belief you take in can change you, so they must put back together what they have taken apart.

At least that is what I have been doing for a few years. Trying to put the pieces back together. Learning more and more to build the ideal me. I guess now that I'm out of there, I don't know if I've actually been changed by what I've done. Did the pieces put themselves back together or did I actually change my personality?

Interesting questions, though irrelevant to my life now.
 

SpaceYeti

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What if I told you I no longer rely on a belief system?
Then I'd know you're lying. No matter what you do, you have beliefs. If you didn't, I'd be unable to communicate with you, and you me, because you'd have no beliefs about the meaning behind the written word. Beliefs are a necessary part of life. The trick is to eliminate the harmful (irrational) ones.
 

redbaron

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Then I'd know you're lying. No matter what you do, you have beliefs. If you didn't, I'd be unable to communicate with you, and you me, because you'd have no beliefs about the meaning behind the written word. Beliefs are a necessary part of life. The trick is to eliminate the harmful (irrational) ones.
If you're taking it to the extreme, maybe. Going by what I think is the most common definition of rely which is, 'being dependent on' I don't really agree.

There's no belief system that I'm dependent on, and I'm not so sure you can classify literary comprehension as, 'belief'. Though maybe you could in some roundabout way? Can't say I'm concerned either way really.
 

SpaceYeti

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If you're taking it to the extreme, maybe. Going by what I think is the most common definition of rely which is, 'being dependent on' I don't really agree.

There's no belief system that I'm dependent on, and I'm not so sure you can classify literary comprehension as, 'belief'. Though maybe you could in some roundabout way? Can't say I'm concerned either way really.
A belief is a thing you think is true. There are degrees of certainty and broadness and narrowness of range, but that's the aspect of an idea or concept which makes it a belief instead of just a thought.
 

redbaron

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A belief is a thing you think is true. There are degrees of certainty and broadness and narrowness of range, but that's the aspect of an idea or concept which makes it a belief instead of just a thought.
Agreed.

Though simply having a belief doesn't constitute being dependent (relying) on one - is my point.
 

SpaceYeti

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Agreed.

Though simply having a belief doesn't constitute being dependent (relying) on one - is my point.
I disagree. Modern society could not exist except due to the basic beliefs necessary for adequately communicating ideas, as just an example. At any time a matter of fact is relevant, then what you believe about it is utterly relevant. Sure, having beliefs having nothing to do with anything relevant would make those beliefs useless until they do become relevant, but all situations are resolved exclusively due to a person's understanding of (beliefs about) the situation.

I believe cups are useful for drinking from (and, in fact, are tools specifically created to aid in drinking). If I did not believe that, I would not drink out of cups. If I did not believe I were thirsty, I would not drink anything at all. Etc.

Beliefs are requisites for action, for remaining alive, for taking part in society, etc. Beliefs are the very foundation of everything you ever (consciously) do.

If the point was only that the guy doesn't rely on simplistic, preformulated religionesque systems of beliefs specifically, then I appologize for misunderstanding and presuming that he meant he discarded beliefs entirely. I'm not sure if that was my fault or his, assuming it's the case, but at the very least his wording was ambiguous on that point. I have a very large system of beliefs; A system which I use to form further beliefs and to inform my decisions, incorporating a very wide array of smaller beliefs or belief systems. Because it's a system composed of beliefs, I consider it a belief system, and I doubt anyone would disagree, and I know nobody could exist in a meaningful manner without one. So... yeah, that explains why I mistook his statement the way I did, if that's the case.
 

snafupants

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If I did not believe I were thirsty, I would not drink anything at all.
That's taking it too far. Animals perform acts instinctually without much or any awareness. They might just intuit that rubbing a penis feels pleasant without appreciating procreation or Will. Also, male clownfish can change their sex without really knowing the underlying mechanics or goal of reproduction.

Clownfish live in the shelter of an anemone, and they never stray very far from their homes. Compared to other fish that travel far and wide, the limited mobility of the clownfish could put a damper on mating. But because clownfish can change sex, they're able to keep their species going. When a male clownfish pairs with another male clownfish (all clownfish are born male), one of them will simply turn female so that the two can spawn. When the female dies, the largest male in the area will take her place by turning into a female. Then, one of the more dominant nonmating males will begin mating with her. This subset of sequential hermaphrodites is known as protandrous hermaphrodites; ones that shift from female to male are known as protogynous hermaphrodites.
 

SpaceYeti

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That's taking it too far. Animals perform acts instinctually without much or any awareness. They might just intuit that rubbing a penis feels pleasant without appreciating procreation or Will. Also, male clownfish can change their sex without really knowing the underlying mechanics or goal of reproduction.
Yet it is a conscious decision for me to drink. Were we mindless instead of mindful, beliefs would probably not factor into it, as belief requires thought... but we are thoughtful as opposed to thoughtless, and our conscious actions are the results of our beliefs.

I also never said anything about someone having unerring, perfectly accurate beliefs. The drinking man doesn't necessarily know every bio-mechanical use of water within his body, but he does know that drinking makes him less thirsty. The ability to think, too, is not a simple boolean aspect of creatures. The thought processes of humans are not untied from their base needs and desires such that rubbing one out is an action we cannot control when or where we do it. We know we have the desire for something, and past experience makes us believe a certain action will relieve us. Further beliefs allow us to choose appropriate times and places.

The thirsty man believes he needs a drink based on his experience with the sensation of thirst. I won't walk you through the steps. My point is simple; We are thinking things, and our actions are the results of our beliefs.
 

snafupants

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I also never said anything about someone having unerring, perfectly accurate beliefs. The drinking man doesn't necessarily know every bio-mechanical use of water within his body, but he does know that drinking makes him less thirsty. The ability to think, too, is not a simple boolean aspect of creatures. The thought processes of humans are not untied from their base needs and desires such that rubbing one out is an action we cannot control when or where we do it. We know we have the desire for something, and past experience makes us believe a certain action will relieve us. Further beliefs allow us to choose appropriate times and places.
I find the sexual example workable. I suggest this, however; the first time, say, a thirteen year old boy felt that nebulous urge, he may have been totally unschooled on the mechanics of sexual release. He wasn't personally conditioned to find sex rewarding. It was the species, collective memory or instinct that steered (pardon the pun) his hand. More directly, the titanic release of hormones was the species' most immediate instrument for dictating its own agenda - namely, the perpetuation of the human race.
 

redbaron

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This is being taken way out of context. The initial premise was that there's no reliance on, not whether the reason we fulfil basic needs is because we 'believe' in something.

Belief System
Definition:
faith based on a series of beliefs but not formalized into a religion; also, a fixed coherent set of beliefs prevalent in a community or society

I only post this because this argument is going to in circles if it keeps getting taken this far out of context. It's not about whether modern society could exist, it's about whether people, as individuals, can live without dependence on a belief system.

And Milo did specifically say, 'belief system' and offered that he, personally doesn't rely on one. Taking the concept of living without reliance on a belief system by comparing it simply to, 'belief' (belief systems and belief are two different things) on both far broader (entire societies) and far narrower (basic impulses, like hunger and thirst) scales is well, missing the entire context and point of the statement.

We're debating not only in different contexts, but two separate things.
 

snafupants

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This is being taken way out of context.
Haha, definitely. Even as I was writing I thought that.

It's not about whether modern society could exist, it's about whether people, as individuals, can live without dependence on a belief system.
It depends how you define belief system. With help, even Stephen Hawking and retards alike are alive, though.

Right now, most people need most people (and certain optimistic beliefs) to keep on.

I recommend the Peter Zapffe "Last Messiah" essay for anyone wondering why you're still here. The four mechanisms and instinct explain it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Messiah
 

Milo

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No belief system. Beliefs? Sometimes. I spontaneously put together information from my memory and/or sight to believe some sort of relevant thing, but once that moment has past I no longer have that belief. I can remember it though. But, I do not rely on it to be true. In fact, when I am in the midst of believing it, I recognize that I am merely guessing.

A belief system to me is a large collection of ideas and how they associate together in one's mind. Recognize that belief systems are only made up of Forms (ideas of things) and can have no correspondence in reality as knowledge. Only as true beliefs.

No beliefs (being held) = no mind tricks = freedom from all the things your mind has associated with death.

Though even in holding beliefs for short moments, one can be tricked by one's mind I suppose. It's way less likely because you aren't thinking long enough to associate with all the bad things deep in your psyche.
 

SpaceYeti

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This is being taken way out of context. The initial premise was that there's no reliance on, not whether the reason we fulfil basic needs is because we 'believe' in something.

Belief System
Definition:
faith based on a series of beliefs but not formalized into a religion; also, a fixed coherent set of beliefs prevalent in a community or society

I only post this because this argument is going to in circles if it keeps getting taken this far out of context. It's not about whether modern society could exist, it's about whether people, as individuals, can live without dependence on a belief system.

And Milo did specifically say, 'belief system' and offered that he, personally doesn't rely on one. Taking the concept of living without reliance on a belief system by comparing it simply to, 'belief' (belief systems and belief are two different things) on both far broader (entire societies) and far narrower (basic impulses, like hunger and thirst) scales is well, missing the entire context and point of the statement.

We're debating not only in different contexts, but two separate things.
Then it was my fault. Sorry. I hadn't realized a "belief system" was not merely a system of beliefs. It seems kind of silly to mean something else, but whatever, this is English!
 

kantor1003

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Haha, definitely. Even as I was writing I thought that.



It depends how you define belief system. With help, even Stephen Hawking and retards alike are alive, though.

Right now, most people need most people (and certain optimistic beliefs) to keep on.

I recommend the Peter Zapffe "Last Messiah" essay for anyone wondering why you're still here. The four mechanisms and instinct explain it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Messiah
Just glimpsed through it. According to him, it seems like having a belief system is necessary. And not just any old belief system, but one that is deliberately compressed, narrowed, or limited from that which is within human potential. How else does he envision anchoring, if not through a belief system, or conceptual scheme of the kind just described?
Any ideas of how one would go about this in practice? Or if it's even possible in principle?
 

Milo

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Just glimpsed through it. According to him, it seems like having a belief system is necessary. And not just any old belief system, but one that is deliberately compressed, narrowed, or limited from that which is within human potential. How else does he envision anchoring, if not through a belief system, or conceptual scheme of the kind just described?
Any ideas of how one would go about this in practice? Or if it's even possible in principle?
One's belief system does not appear unless one is being argued against or is reevaluating his/her values or just thinking deeply.

Interesting. I guess you could say that I have compacted my belief system all way down to a single understanding then which is intuitively understood instead of having to actually think about it.

Or it could be just that I've conditioned myself to not think unless necessary because of the "rewards" I've gotten from not thinking.

But, perhaps the former is necessary for the latter.
 

kantor1003

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Interesting. I guess you could say that I have compacted my belief system all way down to a single understanding then which is intuitively understood instead of having to actually think about it.
Isn't the idea of an infinitely expandable, or if not, the complete lack of a belief system more in tune with the notion of enlightenment than a belief system that is reduced from some earlier state to something that bears closer resemblance to an unarticulated sentiment?
What you just wrote, doesn't that emerge from a belief system? If not, didn't you just create one for yourself by such an analysis? You now have the belief that your belief system is reduced to a single understanding, and from this belief you will generate more beliefs that will eventually make up your belief system (even though I don't think it to be true that you don't have one now) which will, hopefully, constantly readjust itself in an ever changing internal climate, and by being bombarded by a constant flow of new data (sense datum, thoughts, ideas, concepts) - perhaps striving for internal consistency with all the suffering that seem to follow.
 

SpaceYeti

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No belief system. Beliefs? Sometimes. I spontaneously put together information from my memory and/or sight to believe some sort of relevant thing, but once that moment has past I no longer have that belief. I can remember it though. But, I do not rely on it to be true. In fact, when I am in the midst of believing it, I recognize that I am merely guessing.

A belief system to me is a large collection of ideas and how they associate together in one's mind. Recognize that belief systems are only made up of Forms (ideas of things) and can have no correspondence in reality as knowledge. Only as true beliefs.

No beliefs (being held) = no mind tricks = freedom from all the things your mind has associated with death.

Though even in holding beliefs for short moments, one can be tricked by one's mind I suppose. It's way less likely because you aren't thinking long enough to associate with all the bad things deep in your psyche.
... Okay. You and I obviously operate on a different definition of "belief". That, or you're insane.
 

Milo

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@kantor1003

It does not. I have my idea of what the words you speak mean. This does not mean I use the words to create my own understanding of the world. In order to associate things in reality and come to conclusions I must associate the ideas of these things through means of using words together in order create another idea and perhaps create a word for that idea, or I could just leave it in association form. I do not rely on my ideas of what reality is because I know that would be allowing my brain to fool me.

Only through meaning can I communicate to you though. Either I must use words, symbols, or behavior to make you understand what I understand. You must understand that the words and meanings are not something you should rest your beliefs on or should you identify with these beliefs. They are highly unstable because reality is constantly changing in front of you.

You must look at reality to understand it because by the time you've thought about it, it's already changed. Other people's thoughts even more so. When you have a belief system that includes things about the external world, you are identifying with it and your psyche is vulnerable.

I'm just spitting out things that reside in my mind. They come into my consciousness as a response and as a chain that naturally forms itself without actively thinking. I only react to stimuli, we all do. But some of us try to use our thoughts to cope with unpleasant stimuli which only creates more stimuli that confuses our instinct which is just reacting.
 

kantor1003

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Are you saying that there can be no true belief (knowledge) about reality?

Also, I think we must remember that belief isn't limited to objects existing in time/space, so that not every object of belief is subject to change/variance/particularity/relativity etc. Why do you think Kant, who you linked to, was so obsessed with pure reason, or in grounding a metaphysics of morals in the a priori, or Plato with his theory of forms?

If you only observe, refusing to form a belief or articulate any opinion about reality because of a time lag between the observed moment of which you form a true belief and the moment you articulate said belief so that it no longer holds true, one can always, as science does, try to locate the principles of change, or the laws, so that you can formulate propositions that holds true not only at the moment of it being expressed, but through time. Besides, isn't, and mustn't the exploration/discovery of our marvelous universe be a collective effort?
Not only must we as individuals make use of beliefs to have any foundation for the exchange of information, but it is also necessary if we are to do any kind of experiment what so ever - after all, what is experiment if not a testing of nature to see whether she agrees with our beliefs?


On a side note, it can be said that I make use of this forum to test my beliefs, and to get insight into the beliefs of others. What are your reasons for being here?
 

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You can have true beliefs about reality but not knowledge of reality. You made it sound as if true beliefs are in fact knowledge. Not the case.

Plato's reasoning and Theory of Forms shows us that one can not know reality. He used pure reason to prove it and with that proved the limits of reasoning.

You're reasoning for me not knowing reality is not the reason we don't know. You can't know the speed of an atom and it's position at the same time is what you are saying. Which is also true. But, I am saying that by the definition of knowledge, we can not know anything about reality whatsoever. Even trusting the present moment is what you are experiencing is a leap of faith, but much less of a leap than trusting that your beliefs can help you predict the future by thinking of all the possible outcomes and preparing for each scenario. Waste of time and bad for your health and overall appreciation of life.

Solve problems as you actually are aware of them. Don't create problems or goals to accomplish because of want or pride. Just do it naturally when your body and/or conscience tells you to. Deep inside of every person is someone who wants to help other people. That is the altruistic nature of your DNA. Your mind is battling against it and causing you to suffer because it has tricked itself into thinking it will be happy if it directs you instead of your instinct.

Everything I do is automatic now. In response to the world without my thoughts holding me back.
 

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You jackass. That's exactly the sort of solipsist garbage that I personaly hate. Trusting the only input you have about your environment is not a kind of faith, it's a practical necessity. Insofar as you can tell, a steal beam falling on you will probably harm you, and you will attempt to evade it. It has nothing to do with faith. Faith is believing something without reason. You had every reason to suppose a beam was about to clobber you, and you acted on that information.
 

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Faith is believing something is true even if it is possibly untrue. This could be the matrix. Is a beam really falling on you? You should probably get out of the way just in case it is true though.
 

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I bet you didn't know that pretty much everyone's reasoning is flawed, if not everyone's.

EDIT: Or could I know that? What if I am the only one that exists and you are all holograms?

DOUBLE EDIT: My point is that you don't and can't know enough about reality to rule out even a single possibility.
 

SpaceYeti

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Faith is believing something is true even if it is possibly untrue. This could be the matrix. Is a beam really falling on you? You should probably get out of the way just in case it is true though.
The dictionary disagrees with your definition. Knowledge is a belief which you have good reason to suppose is true. It does not require absolute certainty, or else it could almost never be used.
 

Milo

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knowl·edge
/ˈnälij/
Noun
Information and skills acquired through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.

faith
/fāTH/
Noun
Complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
 

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Why you are suffering.

We are conscious.

We have memory.

We have access to that memory and that memory can be a part of our consciousness.

That memory allows us to know things that we have experienced and/or can conceptualize based off of those experiences.

Knowledge gives us choices because of the various results we can see happening from the knowledge (our ability to see cause and effect).

This same memory influences our choices of what we have perceived as good and bad from our experiences.

We ultimately wish to get more of the perceived good, so we always try to get more of it. We don't like the bad, so less of the perceived bad.

The more we know, the more choices we have. The more "good" and "bad" we must weigh in every decision.

We then become afraid to make a "bad" or "not good" choice, so we worry. This causes anxiety which causes stress.

This perpetuates fear which causes us to become caged in our thinking towards deciding the best possible answer.

We then act out of fear (fear of "bad" results, fear of not getting "good" results) based on what we deem to be good and bad.

Whenever we make a decision that is good, or that does not end up being bad, we then feel the reward of relief that we made a "good" decision which is perceived as good in itself. We then associate good and bad with our decision which we associate to ourselves.

We associate things to the concepts of good and bad based on our experience and what we have mentally associated through thinking or from other people influencing us. This causes more things to be considered bad, and more to be considered good. More things to consider when we make choices. More anxiety.

We then become our own judge -- telling ourselves that we are bad for making a bad decision, and that we are only good if we make a good decision because we remembered that we made the decision. We criticize ourselves and this causes us to feel guilt and shame (to feel bad).

This same judgement then gets used on others because we assume that they have the same choices and we use our values of good and bad as the basis for them to be judged against. We make fun of them (or mentally judge them), tell them they are bad, ugly, wrong, or immoral. We talk behind their back -- behind everyone's back based on our perceptions of right and wrong.

People become even more concerned of their choices and reputation.

Guilt and shame take a hold on society and throughout the world creates diversified cultures based on what is socially agreed upon in regards to good and bad.

Truth is that there is no "good" and "bad." There is only pain and pleasure at the basis which we've associated with good and bad.

So stop judging yourself and everyone else. Your mind is only fooling you.

We are all suffering different variations of this. Some of us have identified with our accomplishments to make us feel good about ourselves or have coped in other ways. Many more are struggling to accept their past. Everyone is fighting their own battle with or without your judgement. If you understand this, help them. Once you have won your own battle, you will become unafraid and become true to your nature -- tending to your most basic needs and showing compassion towards others.
 

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Okay. I have proved the same point from a psychological point of view instead of a philosophical one. On to the next thread to learn more if you so choose. I mean, what else do you have to do? Lol


EDIT: Well, The thread has been moved here I guess. Lol
 

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Re: Why you are suffering.

What is good to some is bad to others and vice versa. The perspective is subjective to the mind of the beholder. The mind is the greatest illusionist there is. And we are all trapped within it.
 

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Re: Why you are suffering.

It is this understanding of yourself that will allow you to free yourself from your mind.

Live in the moment with little to no analysis of your choices. They aren't as important as your mind makes them seem.

Do not want more than is needed and you will be free from the emptiness of selfishness.

Live in the moment and be free.
 

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Re: Why you are suffering.

I was shipped to Korea for a year's tour four days before my daughter was born. She's six months old and I haven't even met her (Though my leave is only 16 days away). I also miss the wife who had her, and my awesome mini-me of a son.

Oh, also, the company the army hired to move my stuff lost some of it, I got flagged because of a stupid battalion policy and cannot get promoted, go to schools, etc, even though I did everything right. It's just a stupid, bad battalion policy to flag anyone involved in any kind of investigation. Why? Because fuck the soldiers! How this policy was ever put into place I sincerely do not know. It doesn't even make sense. I'm not about to pay the $3,000 because somebody else lost something, but it's looking like I'm gonna call GI, here, soon.

Oh, also, I went from living in a house, with my family and two cars, to living in a two-man barracks room, I have to sign out every time I go outside, I can't be out past 1AM, we're currently on General Order 1, so I can't even have a drink with my dinner, etc.

This place, this battalion, sucks balls.

Also, about your advice about not being selfish; fuck off.
 

Milo

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The more your mind sinks into the pain of its own illusions of "good" and "bad", the more likely it will try to seek its way out. I have a feeling that this is what people tend to cope with during a mid-life crisis.

Realize it is only the present that exists. The past, which resides only in your memory, has no hold on the present. Guilt, shame, and pride come from identifying with the past. They are false senses. Let them go and keep on with the present moment. If you must identify, identify with the fact that you survived your past in general and that you are still here today.

Once full realization occurs, selfishness becomes minimal, but in a seemingly paradoxical way, True liberation emerges.
 

Turniphead

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If I'm thinking about the past during this moment, how am I not in the moment?

Basically, how is it possible to not be in the moment... everything currently happening, is currently happening.

Why is sensory perception considered "in the moment", and memory not.
If I'm perceiving my memory, is that not as real as my sensory perception?

Good and bad do not exist... how can memory be bad?
 

Kuu

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Milo

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If I'm thinking about the past during this moment, how am I not in the moment?
It's the difference between putting all of your conscious awareness in your senses instead of channeling most of it into your thoughts.

Why is sensory perception considered "in the moment", and memory not.
If I'm perceiving my memory, is that not as real as my sensory perception?

Good and bad do not exist... how can memory be bad?
Your memory associate with the concepts of good and bad and your memory has the choices you have made which you then judge as good or bad which then causes you to judge yourself as good or bad. You are not your past.

Relating memory to one's own self is ultimately pointless. Using the memory to perform in the moment is all one should use it for. Your life becomes a flow of tasks to accomplish, and when you have no tasks you will look for various projects to do automatically. Your energy will skyrocket due to the stress relief and your body not having to heal what the stress damages.
 

Turniphead

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It's the difference between putting all of your conscious awareness in your senses instead of channeling most of it into your thoughts.
Why are senses better than thoughts?
Isn't that a value judgement?
Can you speak without memory?
How do you speak without living in the past?

Your memory associate with the concepts of good and bad and your memory has the choices you have made which you then judge as good or bad which then causes you to judge yourself as good or bad. You are not your past.
What are we?
What if we have memory, but don't make judgements about it?

Relating memory to one's own self is ultimately pointless. Using the memory to perform in the moment is all one should use it for. Your life becomes a flow of tasks to accomplish, and when you have no tasks you will look for various projects to do automatically. Your energy will skyrocket due to the stress relief and your body not having to heal what the stress damages.
What is the point of being?
Why would I do anything If I have no memory of anything?
How would I do projects if can't remember what a project is?
Wouldn't I forget what I was doing after I started the project, If I have no memory of how it started?

How long is the present?

How is being only in the present different than being dead?
 

Etheri

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I like it. It is philosophically possible.
NEW AVATAR PLEASE.
You can give credits whereever they're due in your signature ;D
 

Milo

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Why are senses better than thoughts?
Isn't that a value judgement?
Can you speak without memory?
How do you speak without living in the past?


What are we?
What if we have memory, but don't make judgements about it?


What is the point of being?
Why would I do anything If I have no memory of anything?
How would I do projects if can't remember what a project is?
Wouldn't I forget what I was doing after I started the project, If I have no memory of how it started?

How long is the present?

How is being only in the present different than being dead?
You experience more pain and suffering when you identify yourself with your past. You can decide you own values of pain vs. pleasure.

The answer to the rest of your questions: They do not further -- as the Buddha would say. :)
 

Turniphead

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Pain, suffering and pleasure...
are all words that only mean something when compared to something else.

How can you make a comparison without memory?

In order to decide whether you are suffering, is memory not required?
 
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