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intp/istp

durd141

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At first, all personality tests that i took said i was INTP, but the other day i took one and it said i was ISTP. So i started looking into istp stuff and i seem to be like half ISTP half INTP, is this possible ?

Also, are there any personality tests that have questions that are more detailed/specific ? i struggle answering a lot of questions on all the tests i find, because i feel like my answer can greatly vary depending on certain circumstances that can apply to the question.
 

Grayman

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At first, all personality tests that i took said i was INTP, but the other day i took one and it said i was ISTP. So i started looking into istp stuff and i seem to be like half ISTP half INTP, is this possible ?

Also, are there any personality tests that have questions that are more detailed/specific ? i struggle answering a lot of questions on all the tests i find, because i feel like my answer can greatly vary depending on certain circumstances that can apply to the question.
Taking the test more increases the chance that it would be inaccurate because you start to think too much about the answers. You cannot be both. It is one or the other.

The last statement is an Ne response; everything becomes too relative to come to any conclusions.
 

crippli

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Teoretically it is possible to be equal(everyone have all functions). IRL not so much. There will be a preference. Will you be able to measure it? Would equality create a blue screen?

If the preferences are close enough, does it make sense to make the separation? Why not just add one more quality to ones resume?



"ISTPs are optimistic, full of good cheer, loyal to their equals, uncomplicated in their desires, generous, trusting and receptive people who want no part in confining commitments. "

"The INTP is at his best when he can work on his theories independently. When given an environment which supports his creative genius and possible eccentricity, the INTP can accomplish truly remarkable things. These are the pioneers of new thoughts in our society. "

http://www.personalitypage.com/html/portraits.html
 

Idunno

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Do you go outside often and do things?
If yes you are istp (jk)

Istp
physical mechanics (cars, bikes etc.), They are good with outside things, things they can see, when they try visualizing something in their head they use hand motions to picture what it is, think concrete(what is)
Intp
like the inside, like the theoretical, play with ideas for fun, think abstract (what could be).

I think that istp are simply doers they just do, they trust 5 senses in literal fashion. Intps have this inner voice.
istps enjoy talking in direct fashion
intps enjoy talking figuratively

I dunno just my 2 posts.
 

Architect

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At first, all personality tests that i took said i was INTP, but the other day i took one and it said i was ISTP. So i started looking into istp stuff and i seem to be like half ISTP half INTP, is this possible ?
No, all serious practitioners and MBTI authors agree that you only have one type, but you easily may mistype or identify with others. The best way is to get a deep understanding of MBTI, particularly the functions.

In absence of that if you identify as both an INTP and ISTP you more than likely are an ISTP. S types typically misidentify themselves as N types, but the reverse rarely happens.
 

durd141

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Do you go outside often and do things?
If yes you are istp (jk)

Istp
physical mechanics (cars, bikes etc.), They are good with outside things, things they can see, when they try visualizing something in their head they use hand motions to picture what it is, think concrete(what is)
Intp
like the inside, like the theoretical, play with ideas for fun, think abstract (what could be).

I think that istp are simply doers they just do, they trust 5 senses in literal fashion. Intps have this inner voice.
istps enjoy talking in direct fashion
intps enjoy talking figuratively

I dunno just my 2 posts.

That's where all the confusion starts for me, i have a lot of both INTP and ISTP traits:

First of all i like being outside doing "extreme" activities and practical stuff (currently studying marine engineering), but at the same time i enjoy being at home by myself playing games or doing random stuff on the internet like watching the most random documentaries and articles that i find atleast a little bit interesting. And i like to play with ideas but not way over top as ive read a lot of intp's do. I also think of stuff that could happen, think abstract.

I do have some kind of "inner voice" and i enjoy talking in a direct fashion but not so much figuratively.

Its really weird for me. I've read a lot of stereotypes and traits of both INTP and ISTP, and its asif around 70-80% of the intp ones apply to me and around 90% ISTP. But from what ive read you can only be one personality and have a few characteristics of another similar personality....


Off topic question: Does anyone ever type a long paragraph or so, but always feel as if nothing they type make sense then spend a long time going over and over it to make sure it doesnt seem "weird" to others ? lol
 

Armature_Sally

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durd141, I also initially questioned whether I was INTP, because although I definitely identified with the general descriptors of how an INTP thinks, I also really like 'doing' things, for example running, surfing, waterskiing, skating etc. , which didn't seem to fit the typical INTP profile.

After a bit of research I decided that these hobbies aren't necessarily incompatible with an INTP type, and actually that some of the reasons that I enjoy these things is because of my INTP-ness: for example while running or surfing, I often find myself with a clearer mindset and in a good place to think about complex things. Another example is that I spend so much time inside my head, rationalising and tying my mind in knots, that sometimes it's really nice to do something purely physical, to lose yourself in the adrenaline of a downhill line or the pure hedonism of a live gig.

Not sure if this is similar to your dilemma! I also realised that none of the other MTBI types resonated with me like INTP, and that if you took away these atypical hobbies then I'd still be the same person, but if you took away the way that I think I would not be.
 

Idunno

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That's where all the confusion starts for me, i have a lot of both INTP and ISTP traits:

First of all i like being outside doing "extreme" activities and practical stuff (currently studying marine engineering), but at the same time i enjoy being at home by myself playing games or doing random stuff on the internet like watching the most random documentaries and articles that i find atleast a little bit interesting. And i like to play with ideas but not way over top as ive read a lot of intp's do. I also think of stuff that could happen, think abstract.

I do have some kind of "inner voice" and i enjoy talking in a direct fashion but not so much figuratively.

Its really weird for me. I've read a lot of stereotypes and traits of both INTP and ISTP, and its asif around 70-80% of the intp ones apply to me and around 90% ISTP. But from what ive read you can only be one personality and have a few characteristics of another similar personality....


Off topic question: Does anyone ever type a long paragraph or so, but always feel as if nothing they type make sense then spend a long time going over and over it to make sure it doesnt seem "weird" to others ? lol
This can happen because from istp and intp, its just the 2nd and 3rd functions that switch the auxillary and tertiary istp: t s n f intp: t n s f. Maybe thats why its hard to distinguish.

Two other things to note that should really be clarified when starting to learn MBTI.
1. You only have 1 type and most likely going to stay that type.
2. A type is just a preference of which cognitive functions you like to use.

From your last post you seem to value directness and doing extraverted things hence the Extraverted Sensing? Something i notice is that aux intp: Ne, its more what goes on in your head you cant really extravert intuition by skating or doing much physical activities, it comes more useful in games like chess. While extraverted sensing is better for actual sporty activities that you listed.

If you really want to know what you are between these two types try understanding Ne/Ni and Se/Si. If you are intp you will have Ne Si, istp Se Ni. Four totally different and distguishable functions. This can possibly further clarify your dilemma.
 

Idunno

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"ISTPs are optimistic, full of good cheer, loyal to their equals, uncomplicated in their desires, generous, trusting and receptive people who want no part in confining commitments. "

"The INTP is at his best when he can work on his theories independently. When given an environment which supports his creative genius and possible eccentricity, the INTP can accomplish truly remarkable things. These are the pioneers of new thoughts in our society. "

Taken from crippli's sig.

I like this, it proves a valid point but seems to optimistic for it all to be true.

ISTP's are doers, they dont need as much reasoning as the INTP do they just do it and do a heck of a good job at it, better than all other types when they are passionate. Very laid back uncomplicated people.

INTP's on the other hand need more reasoning and believe their reasoning. This can be a problem to the INTP because they really value their reasons and it can lead to self-destructive behavior they cant just do (well they can but its much harder for them). They look for new theories because they dont spend time thinking on whats here (sensing) but with what they have (Si), they try to connect different things together (Ti), using their Intuition (Ne). Also living costs can be minimal for an intp but they can be extremely complicated in the head.
 

durd141

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"ISTPs are optimistic, full of good cheer, loyal to their equals, uncomplicated in their desires, generous, trusting and receptive people who want no part in confining commitments. "

"The INTP is at his best when he can work on his theories independently. When given an environment which supports his creative genius and possible eccentricity, the INTP can accomplish truly remarkable things. These are the pioneers of new thoughts in our society. "
Yeah both of these statements apply to me...
Im sure im istp. I'm just confused as to why i have so many intp characteristics.
 

Nick

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you can just be an IxTP.

There are many muddled people in this world that fall in the shallows when testing for their types, neither adherent to the polarity of a specific function. Think of yourself as well balanced.

I'd also put some money down that you're a bit older than 18 and have had time to sufficiently develop yourself.
 

Teax

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i struggle answering a lot of questions on all the tests i find
durd141 said:
That's where all the confusion starts for me, i have a lot of both INTP and ISTP traits
"ISTPs are optimistic, full of good cheer, loyal to their equals, uncomplicated in their desires, generous, trusting and receptive people who want no part in confining commitments. "

"The INTP is at his best when he can work on his theories independently. When given an environment which supports his creative genius and possible eccentricity, the INTP can accomplish truly remarkable things. These are the pioneers of new thoughts in our society. "
questions can only point you in the right direction. the usefulness of MBTI tests and generic-stereotypical-behavioural profiles at your point is zero. MBTI is not about behaviour, more about motivation/priorities. The only way to go is Cognitive functions.

INTP: Ti-Ne-Si-Fe
ISTP: Ti-Se-Ni-Fe

jumpstart:
http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=16324
http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=8671
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwHFjtBoxEI
have fun
 

scorpiomover

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No, all serious practitioners and MBTI authors agree that you only have one type, but you easily may mistype or identify with others. The best way is to get a deep understanding of MBTI, particularly the functions.

In absence of that if you identify as both an INTP and ISTP you more than likely are an ISTP. S types typically misidentify themselves as N types, but the reverse rarely happens.
I see it quite a lot. People think that being interested in science means that you're intuitive.

When you've had science rammed down your throat right through school, being interested in science simply means that you like to stick with what you know, which means "Sensor".

Likewise, when you keep getting rammed by multiple sources how stupid religion is, being an atheist or an agnostic is just sticking to what you know, which again means "Sensor".

Introverts are the weirdos who disagree with their peers. As a consequence, ISxx types are the types who disagree with their peers, because of science and rationality.

As Jung pointed out in his story about the S man and his N wife who were guessing where jumping fish would jump out of the water, a hallmark of intuition is regularly knowing things that you have no possible way of figuring out with your scientific and rational skills or emotional and empathic skills and knowledge.

INxx types are the weirdos who disagree with their peers, because they have some kind of certainty that the answer is something that the scientific rationalists thinks is crazy, because there just doesn't seem to be any proven scientific evidence to justify it, but that their crazy and weird ideas keep turning out to be right on the money, even though their weird and crazy ideas should be consistently wrong.
 

durd141

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you can just be an IxTP.

There are many muddled people in this world that fall in the shallows when testing for their types, neither adherent to the polarity of a specific function. Think of yourself as well balanced.

I'd also put some money down that you're a bit older than 18 and have had time to sufficiently develop yourself.

Mentally i feel older than 18 yes, id say over 25ish. I think its because i never had a proper childhood, since birth i have lived in 3 countries and moved house around 10 times.. so yeah.
 

Brontosaurie

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In absence of that if you identify as both an INTP and ISTP you more than likely are an ISTP. S types typically misidentify themselves as N types, but the reverse rarely happens.
S type people are frequently sure they're an N type. humble and less intellectually self-conscious/confident/aware N type people are more likely to hesitate, imagining both possibilities and noting the bias in favour of N.

just my experience though.
 

crippli

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Taken from crippli's sig.
That was not my "sig". It pas part of the post.
I like this, it proves a valid point but seems to optimistic for it all to be true.
Yes. When one look at the functions as the tests are based on, one get into some problems.

An INTP/ISTP would score something like this;

Ti IIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Ne IIIIIIIIIII
Se IIIIIIIIIII
Ni IIIIIII
Si IIIIIII
Fe IIIIIII

The primary is fine. But there are already problems with the auxiliary process, as they are double. The tertiary process even more problematic as it's triple. And there isn't an inferior function. Maybe that would be Te and Fi.

So one get a composition where a person uses all functions. The dual and triples would each be only working at 1/2 and 1/3 (if we assume all humans more or less have similar capabilities).Or if one uses only the first 4. That would be a rather odd person.Sort of suspended mode. The extroverted aspects would overshadow the Ti. And it would no longer be a INTP/ISTP. But an extrovert of sorts.

So a hybrid creates problems with the theory.


ISTP's are doers, they dont need as much reasoning as the INTP
Not sure I agree with this. This description fits better on an extrovert. ISTPs are introverted thinkers. They lack Te. The doer function for me, and Fe.

"Introverted Thinkers develop complex systems and models in their heads. These models explain how things work. Whenever a dominant Ti comes across new information, they test it against their internal models to see if it fits. If it does, they store the new information in the correct category. If it does not fit, but they think it still might be correct information, they will completely re-evaluate their mental model to understand why it does not accommodate the new information."

The main difference should be how one come across information. Strictly speaking everyone will get through their senses. A stone will be a stone to Se. While for the Ne, the stone may look like a huge penis.
 

Idunno

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An INTP/ISTP would score something like this;

Ti IIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Ne IIIIIIIIIII
Se IIIIIIIIIII
Ni IIIIIII
Si IIIIIII
Fe IIIIIII

The primary is fine. But there are already problems with the auxiliary process, as they are double. The tertiary process even more problematic as it's triple. And there isn't an inferior function. Maybe that would be Te and Fi.

So one get a composition where a person uses all functions. The dual and triples would each be only working at 1/2 and 1/3 (if we assume all humans more or less have similar capabilities).Or if one uses only the first 4. That would be a rather odd person.Sort of suspended mode. The extroverted aspects would overshadow the Ti. And it would no longer be a INTP/ISTP. But an extrovert of sorts.

So a hybrid creates problems with the theory.
Yeah i can see this happening, when i test i always score

Ti IIIIIIIIII
Fi IIIIIIII

Then the rest fits into category Ne,Si,Fe.

I think its because i've been living around ENFP's my whole life to condition my Fi but thats just my theory, who knows whats really going on.

I dont think you can score high on all 4 processes, isnt the test designed to adhere with one function each question?

MBTI isnt perfect i agree.

Not sure I agree with this. This description fits better on an extrovert. ISTPs are introverted thinkers. They lack Te. The doer function for me.

"Introverted Thinkers develop complex systems and models in their heads. These models explain how things work. Whenever a dominant Ti comes across new information, they test it against their internal models to see if it fits. If it does, they store the new information in the correct category. If it does not fit, but they think it still might be correct information, they will completely re-evaluate their mental model to understand why it does not accommodate the new information."

The difference should be how one come across information. Strictly speaking everyone will get through their senses. A stone will be a stone to Se. While for the Ne, the stone may look like a huge penis.
Right, i was relating the ISTP to the INTP, extraverts are the true doers. But comparing ISTP to INTP, using your analogy, both are analytic in their minds. But the information that former process is what is directly seen while the latter operates in forming hidden ideas and meanings on what they see. So referring back to the istp intp comparision the istp will rely back on direct information while the intp will rely on hidden meanings (essentially a step further) to formulate their own beliefs. This could be a reason why intps may be more complicated in their reasoning than an istp.
 

Analyzer

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I see it quite a lot. People think that being interested in science means that you're intuitive.

When you've had science rammed down your throat right through school, being interested in science simply means that you like to stick with what you know, which means "Sensor".

Likewise, when you keep getting rammed by multiple sources how stupid religion is, being an atheist or an agnostic is just sticking to what you know, which again means "Sensor".

Introverts are the weirdos who disagree with their peers. As a consequence, ISxx types are the types who disagree with their peers, because of science and rationality.

As Jung pointed out in his story about the S man and his N wife who were guessing where jumping fish would jump out of the water, a hallmark of intuition is regularly knowing things that you have no possible way of figuring out with your scientific and rational skills or emotional and empathic skills and knowledge.

INxx types are the weirdos who disagree with their peers, because they have some kind of certainty that the answer is something that the scientific rationalists thinks is crazy, because there just doesn't seem to be any proven scientific evidence to justify it, but that their crazy and weird ideas keep turning out to be right on the money, even though their weird and crazy ideas should be consistently wrong.
Great description between the differences of N and S, especially the introverts.

I have always felt that science was more sensor based. Intuitives like exploring unexplored realms, so when something becomes established it becomes a sensor specialty. Cliche example is Einstein who saw physics in a completely different way, but needed to use the scientific method to prove his theories to the majority who are mostly made up of sensors.
 

durd141

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So referring back to the istp intp comparision the istp will rely back on direct information while the intp will rely on hidden meanings (essentially a step further) to formulate their own beliefs. This could be a reason why intps may be more complicated in their reasoning than an istp.

What if you do both...
 

Teax

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What if you do both...
you must realize you are looking from your own limited inner experience. here's an analogy if high were "intuitive":

a squirrel is sitting in the tree, looking down, thinking "I'm so high...".
an eagle is flying, looking down, thinking "I'm sooo high...".

when self-analyzing your type, you have to compensate for your own skewed perspective. ofcourse "you have intuition", the stereotypes only apply relative to the general population, not one individual. That's why it's easier to analyze someone else once you know your own type.

one way of getting perspective: try to look for the negative sides. what is it you struggle with or plain don't like? for example - If you feel irritated by a messy room, you're a Se -> ISTP. If you don't notice details, untill someone points them out to you, you are not Se -> INTP.

this reminds me of this funny site http://zombiesintelligently.com/non-fiction/myers-briggs/, but don't take what's in there too seriously, this is more meant as a joke
 

durd141

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Yeah here is another weird part, you said:

If you feel irritated by a messy room, you're a Se -> ISTP. If you don't notice details, untill someone points them out to you, you are not Se -> INTP.

Well im sure im istp, but i have a messy room and it does not bother me at all.
 

durd141

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Yeah i know, but there are a lot of those type of pointers for Intp's and Im just confused as to if i am ISTP then why is there a LOT of intp pointers/characteristscs that apply to me ?
 

Teax

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Yeah i know, but there are a lot of those type of pointers for Intp's and Im just confused as to if i am ISTP then why is there a LOT of intp pointers/characteristscs that apply to me ?
there's a lot of misunderstood misinformation out there.

here's your chance to lay them out, and get rid of any remaining doubt as to whether those pointers actually point to INTP.
 

durd141

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I dont think you understand my problem. I feel like I'm a big mixture between ISTP and INTP. I'm too theoretical and analytical to be ISTP, but too hands-on to be INTP. And then there are other "pointers" that apply to either INTP or ISTP. I dont have any doubt as to whether they are correct or not, its just that if one pointer applies to an INTP but to the ISTP it would be the opposite, then why do both sides apply to me if that makes any sense ?



I found the following on personalitycafe.com ;

ONE:ISTPs are much more focused on the "here and now" while INTPs are more focused on possible futures and whatever ideas are bouncing off their heads.

TWO:ISTPs usually enjoy more physical things (sports, outdoors, building things with their hands, nonverbal communication) while INTPs are typically wrapped up in thoughts.

THREE:ISTPs like taking things apart and putting them back together, figuring out what makes things function. INTPs like analyzing details, solving puzzles and figuring out new possible solutions.

FOUR:ISTPs are usually not motivated by things like recognition or rules; they have to be the one to choose to do something. INTPs are the chameleons, and will often fit into a group by pretending to have similar interests or mimicking abilities.



Okay, so for the first point you could say im inbetween: im both focused on the here and now but at the same time i like to explore possible futures.

For point two, I enjoy both being outside, doing physical activities etc etc. But i also like to get "wrapped" up in thoughts, sometimes i can spend long periods of times just sitting about thinking about stuff.

Point three, i love taking things apart and putting them back together, figuring out what makes things function, but, i like to do it via analysing details and figuring out new possible solutions.

For point four; i am not motivated by things like recognition or rules, im really stubborn and rebellious you could say. But just like the intp i can fit into a group by pretending to have similar interests or mimicking abilities, as long as it is necessary and i see a point/ something i can gain from it.





Also some intp pointers that i am not sure if they are true or not are:

-The long and complicated words thing, and also the need to have everything absolutely correct, like a sentence can not have any mistakes etc..

-That intp's dont really like human contact.

-When you just have to correct every mistake you see or hear
 

Teax

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I dont think you understand my problem.
I feel like I'm a big mixture between ISTP and INTP.
Took me ages to pin down my own type, I get it as well as your frustration.

I'm too theoretical and analytical to be ISTP, but too hands-on to be INTP.
"analytical" and "hands-on" are behaviours/stereotypes, it's hard to correctly deduce your own type based on this due to confirmation bias and what I called "skewed perspective". every person will claim to be analytical and hands-on unless you're a head-in-a-jar or a steering-wheel. :D

screenshot from "futurama"

for example: how do you know how much planning you need to be a J? Is not making plans the only thing you need to be a P? is planning just a symptom of a deeper problem? how do you know how well your plans are compared to all others? stereotypes like "J plan ahead while Ps dont" are unhelpful unless you're an extreme clinical case, and few people are.....

And then there are other "pointers" that apply to either INTP or ISTP. I dont have any doubt as to whether they are correct or not, its just that if one pointer applies to an INTP but to the ISTP it would be the opposite, then why do both sides apply to me if that makes any sense ?
that's the thing: all pointers I've seen were always one sided.

for example: if you have mud on your boots, you probably walked through dirt.
but the opposite is not true: if you have no mud on your boots, you still could have walked through dirt, since you could have cleaned your boots after walking through dirt.... You cannot take every pointer, and turn it around.

maybe I should call them "clues"...

ONE:ISTPs are much more focused on the "here and now" while INTPs are more focused on possible futures and whatever ideas are bouncing off their heads.

TWO:ISTPs usually enjoy more physical things (sports, outdoors, building things with their hands, nonverbal communication) while INTPs are typically wrapped up in thoughts.

THREE:ISTPs like taking things apart and putting them back together, figuring out what makes things function. INTPs like analyzing details, solving puzzles and figuring out new possible solutions.

FOUR:ISTPs are usually not motivated by things like recognition or rules; they have to be the one to choose to do something. INTPs are the chameleons, and will often fit into a group by pretending to have similar interests or mimicking abilities.
this completely explains why you're so confused. It's all stereotypes without exception.... all critique is directed at the source, not at you:

ONE:yeah most popular one.... I mean what exactly is "focused on here and now"? haha
focused.... on here and NOW
ridiculously unhelpful stereotype don't you agree?

They're trying to hint at Se vs Ne, but those are deeper than could be put in 1 short sentence.

TWO:some INTPs enjoy too, just for different reasons (Se vs Ne/Si). and the 'in thoughts part' applies equally to both ISTP and INTP (both are Ti dom).

THREE: these are bad stereotypes. The first thing both types do in this technologically driven world, and the second thing is the same for ISTPs except for a slight difference in motivation in "figuring out new possible solutions".

FOUR: the first thing applies to both ISTPs and INTPs in exactly the same way (Ti dom). And I heared most INTPs are not even doing the second thing consciously(the chameleon trait), so typing yourself by an unconscious behaviour is obviously not a good idea.

Also some intp pointers that i am not sure if they are true or not are:

-The long and complicated words thing, and also the need to have everything absolutely correct, like a sentence can not have any mistakes etc..

-That intp's dont really like human contact.

-When you just have to correct every mistake you see or hear
I can't pin these down to MBTI.... better let others answer that. always wondered about the "correcting mistakes" myself though. it's definetly not true for me, as you can (probably) see I don't even notice over half of my own grammar or spelling mistakes, only logical ones.
 
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