The Inferior, other things, and my sort of OktoberFEst

[Alias]

It has been quite a while since I've ever made a thread myself. So here we are. Let me first establish that I'm semi-skeptical about functions perfectly correlating with MBTI. However, I find Dominant and Inferior functions to make a ton of sense, as opposed to the shakier Auxiliary and Tertiary.

What I have been thinking about was the influence of the inferior function. You see, recently my INTJ brother has been getting sucked into Se. He swears a ton, he tries to just be funny, and he purposefully gives off a bad impression to people he doesn't think he'll meet again or care about. He deals with his shortcomings (literally shortcomings; he's a bit shorter and I, as his younger brother, am significantly taller) by fitting himself into the role of funny midget.

And this gets me onto inferiors. For me, I feel different from INTPs and other NTs. I've lately gotten a bit more spiritual, and I can relate well with people as if I'm good at Fe. I get of well with strangers now. I think I've finally gotten a grip on my Fe. Am I secretly ENFJ? Also, I feel generally more optimistic, and I don't seem much like a gloomy, pessimistic INTP anymore. Also, my mother confirmed that out of my three brothers, I'm the one who best connects to people. I have an INFP twin. Shouldn't he be a bit better at that type of thing?

With my friends, I'm mostly more affluent with strangers and/or people we know but aren't familiar with (e.g. co-workers). The majority of my friends are Introverts, and so far, I've had the most success with females. While the others don't care about the impression they make, I'm seen well with females, be they co workers or not. I was able to befriend an ENFJ, and now she's my friend (or something. Not really sure in the romance area. She could be interested in me, I could be interested in her. A tale for another thread.). While she's popular, social, and very expressive, I'm pretty

I'm not complaining. I like where I am with myself. I just thought this would be interesting to you guys. Tell me what you think. Am I ENFJ? Did I successfully handle my inferior? What are your experiences with Inferiors and Dominants? Anything you have to say about ENFJ relationships?

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

recently my INTJ brother has been getting sucked into Se. He swears a ton, he tries to just be funny, and he purposefully gives off a bad impression to people he doesn't think he'll meet again or care about

Is this Se? I feel like there are probably several functions that could motivate behavior like that.

While she's popular, social, and very expressive, I'm pretty

Damn right, you are

Am I ENFJ? Did I successfully handle my inferior? What are your experiences with Inferiors and Dominants? Anything you have to say about ENFJ relationships?

Probably not. Sure, why not? No notable experiences, here. Nothing to say, other than treat her like a person, not a type.

 

[Russ]

Do you mind giving me a quick explanation of inferiors and dominants?
I have an idea, but i am interested in you telling it.

 

[Inquisitor]

What I have been thinking about was the influence of the inferior function. You see, recently my INTJ brother has been getting sucked into Se. He swears a ton, he tries to just be funny, and he purposefully gives off a bad impression to people he doesn't think he'll meet again or care about. He deals with his shortcomings (literally shortcomings; he's a bit shorter and I, as his younger brother, am significantly taller) by fitting himself into the role of funny midget.

I think this is just your brother being himself and not the inferior. INTJs can be very dismissive and kind of dweeby in my experience. If he is an INTJ, here's what Jung says to look for:

Instinctuality and intemperance are the hallmarks of this sensation combined with an extraordinary dependence on sense-impressions...But if, through a forced exaggeration of the conscious attitude, there should be a complete subordination to inner perceptions, the unconscious goes over to the opposition, giving rise to compulsive sensations whose excessive dependence on the object directly contradicts the conscious attitude. The form of neurosis is a compulsion neurosis with hypochondriacal symptoms, hypersensitivity of the sense organs, and compulsive ties to particular persons or objects.

I have an INTJ cousin (He took the test and typed himself as such, and I agree with his assessment) and for many years as an adolescent, he spent his time binge-eating, watching porn, and playing video games for hours on end. He rarely showered, dressed in unwashed sweatpants and hoodies, his hair grew out to shoulder-length, and he was obese. Then he made a 100% turnaround in college (undergraduate business program at a decent private, wealthy university) and rebranded himself as the "finance" guy. You know, loafers, khakis, pink lacoste shirts, that kind of thing. Now he obsesses over looking good. He lost all the weight. Goes to the gym regularly. He's well-coiffed and showered at all times, and he pays close attention to his haircut and wardrobe. He's gone from one extreme to the other. But you can see how inferior Se manifested there and it fits Jung's description almost exactly. Incidentally, Jung himself lived in a little castle he had built. The design speaks to his type (probable INFJ or INTJ).

When reading Jung, it's important to keep in mind he dealt with some very sick people, and the repression of the inferior almost never goes so far as to result in those "neuroses" that are described above. Usually people turn back before it gets to that stage.

And this gets me onto inferiors. For me, I feel different from INTPs and other NTs. I've lately gotten a bit more spiritual, and I can relate well with people as if I'm good at Fe. I get of well with strangers now. I think I've finally gotten a grip on my Fe. Am I secretly ENFJ? Also, I feel generally more optimistic, and I don't seem much like a gloomy, pessimistic INTP anymore. Also, my mother confirmed that out of my three brothers, I'm the one who best connects to people. I have an INFP twin. Shouldn't he be a bit better at that type of thing?

Fe doesn't rule out the possibility of relating well with people, it just makes you less aware of social norms and social etiquette. Jung labeled INTPs as "socially gauche." Also, there's nothing in the literature that suggests INTPs are by nature gloomy and pessimistic. I was in college and in my twenties, but I'm not now. I can't say if you're ENFJ or not.

With my friends, I'm mostly more affluent with strangers and/or people we know but aren't familiar with (e.g. co-workers). The majority of my friends are Introverts, and so far, I've had the most success with females. While the others don't care about the impression they make, I'm seen well with females, be they co workers or not. I was able to befriend an ENFJ, and now she's my friend (or something. Not really sure in the romance area. She could be interested in me, I could be interested in her. A tale for another thread.). While she's popular, social, and very expressive, I'm pretty

I'm not complaining. I like where I am with myself. I just thought this would be interesting to you guys. Tell me what you think. Am I ENFJ? Did I successfully handle my inferior? What are your experiences with Inferiors and Dominants? Anything you have to say about ENFJ relationships?

I'll just say that if you feel like an ENFJ, this may be a sign that you are actually being led along by Fe. Whatever you got on the MBTI, I would stick to that for the time being. Also, the most obvious sign of introversion is feeling somewhat drained of energy after 2-3 hours of social interaction in my opinion. But if you can interact with people all day long and then don't feel like retreating into your cave (or in front of your computer) at the end, extraversion is very likely.

 

[Alias]

Damn right, you are

Thanks, but that would imply she isn't pretty.

 

[Alias]

Do you mind giving me a quick explanation of inferiors and dominants?
I have an idea, but i am interested in you telling it.

No problem. With Jung's Cognitive functions, he assigns each type a set. There are 8 functions. Fe, Fi, Te, Ti, Ne, Ni, Se, Si. A type's inferior is the last of the four they use. A type's dominant is the first. INTPs and ISTPs use Ti. ENFJs and ESFJs use Fe. INFJs and INTJs use Ni. And so on.

People sometimes end up caught in their own inferior, so that they flip themselves as a defense mechanism. Others reconcile with their inferior, and it ends happily. This thread is wondering if I've handled my Inferior right and/or if my brother handled his wrong.

 

[Alias]

No notable experiences, here. Nothing to say, other than treat her like a person, not a type.

I do, I do. Unlike an ISTP she dated who went on a dating binge to record a ton of info for his friends. He actually hates all the drama that comes with EXFXs and stuff. He can give relationship advice like a pro. I commend him for the strategy, but it's kind of exploitive.

Thanks for all the replies, guys. MY INTJ brother will probably get out of it soon. He's working himself through psychiatry and medical school, and there's no chance he'll stay like this, so things should be fine.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Thanks, but that would imply she isn't pretty.

Prettiest post i've ever seen

 

[DrSketchpad]

When reading Jung, it's important to keep in mind he dealt with some very sick people, and the repression of the inferior almost never goes so far as to result in those "neuroses" that are described above. Usually people turn back before it gets to that stage.

This is a comment with mixed/unclear intentions:

You'd think, right? This happened to me for a long time. It still happens sometimes, mostly when I'm really furious. I have a theory for this. Under the assumptions that functions have some sort of psychic link (that came out way more mystic than I intended, but think Jung, not crystal ball) like intuition and thinking are usually paired in an NT or SF, then maybe one function being repressed will repress it's functional partner (if you don't care about this or want something more relevant, skip further down).

personal anecdote/pattern: When I get really angry, with my type most likely being NiFe, my Fe basically holds onto the anger and empathy is out of the window. Only flaming justice remains. Basically as this happens I start paying attention to my surroundings and find them stressful as well.

Imagine it like this:

*brothers/ family members do something that I find inexcusable (at the moment)*

*I build up anger and repress any empathy to keep anger justified*

Me(exaggerated):"WHY THE FLIPPING SHIT AM I FEELING DIRT ON MY FEET AGGHHH"

"THAT DESIGN IS TOO COMPLICATED, WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY THINKING?"

I also start analyzing everything that's happening around me socially so that I can use it to justify my anger.

This went on longer than I thought.

Anyways... back to my main point/anecdote/whatever.

Basically when I payed too little actual attention to my surroundings I start some negative conspiracy theory that I try to employ Ti to fix. This never goes well. I start paying attention to my body's signals and then all of the sudden I have cancer or schizophrenia, etc. Normal experiences like driving become hellish as I think ahead to cars that are suddenly driving way too close and erratically. I can't do anything without thinking it has deadly consequences.

 

[Alias]

I'm back, and I have a bit more information. My brother re-took MBTI and got ENTJ. I think it makes a bit more sense, because he uses Te much more than Ni. And that means the inferior screwing with him is Fi and not Se, which better represents what insecurities might be going on.

 

[Inquisitor]

I'm back, and I have a bit more information. My brother re-took MBTI and got ENTJ. I think it makes a bit more sense, because he uses Te much more than Ni. And that means the inferior screwing with him is Fi and not Se, which better represents what insecurities might be going on.

Hmm. How old's your brother?

 

[Alias]

Hmm. How old's your brother?

I'd rather not say. I'm wary of giving out much information online. Will 3 years older than me help?

 

[Inquisitor]

I'd rather not say. I'm wary of giving out much information online. Will 3 years older than me help?

I'm just curious why you posted about him in the first place...is he having trouble in school/work?

 

[Alias]

I posted because it concerned my thoughts on inferior functions. I guess it is hurting his reputation with strangers. Other than that it's not much of a problem.

 

[Inquisitor]

Yeah...I would have been surprised if you had told me he was being a delinquent given the ENTJ result.

 

[sdm]

I have felt similar to you when considering dominant and inferior functions. How can extraverted feeling be my inferior function when I truly feel I empathize with so many. I have met with many INTP's that feel a little uncomfortable with identifying with the thinking preference when they feel some pull to the feeling preference.

What I've started to notice when I am familiar with someone's personality type that I can see behaviours that are reflective of the inferior (but do not show as 'inferior'). What I have begun to wonder is if someone is aware of their strengths and weaknesses (whether they know type or not) do they try and compensate. For example, as INTP's we may go straight to the solution but want to empathize with everyone. I have an INFP friend who is constantly sending out bits of information to show her knowledge.

What's most important is to know where you go first. I go to solutions first and then think geez I guess I better let the person know I care. The INFP is thinking I want to help people, hey maybe I can show how logical I am by giving them a good resource.

 

[Alias]

Great insight, sdm! I don't like having a perception of myself as purely-logic based. I try to empathize and maintain an acceptable moral code.

 

[Inquisitor]

I have felt similar to you when considering dominant and inferior functions. How can extraverted feeling be my inferior function when I truly feel I empathize with so many. I have met with many INTP's that feel a little uncomfortable with identifying with the thinking preference when they feel some pull to the feeling preference.

What I've started to notice when I am familiar with someone's personality type that I can see behaviours that are reflective of the inferior (but do not show as 'inferior'). What I have begun to wonder is if someone is aware of their strengths and weaknesses (whether they know type or not) do they try and compensate. For example, as INTP's we may go straight to the solution but want to empathize with everyone. I have an INFP friend who is constantly sending out bits of information to show her knowledge.

What's most important is to know where you go first. I go to solutions first and then think geez I guess I better let the person know I care. The INFP is thinking I want to help people, hey maybe I can show how logical I am by giving them a good resource.

Exactly right. Good way to put it.

Here's Marie-Louise Von Franz (probable INTP) on this topic:

...the inferior function feels itself the most important; most genuine attitude. So, a thinking type, because he knows that everything in his life matters from the feeling aspect, will assure you that he is a feeling type. It does no good, therefore, to think of what matters most when tyring to discover one's type; rather ask: "What do I habitually do most?" An extrovert can be constantly extroverting but will assure you, and will mean it, that he is deeply introverted and only concerned with the inner thing. That is not a swindle; it is how he feels, for he knows that though it may be only a minute a day, that minute when he introverts is the real thing, there is close to himself, there he is real.

In the realm of the inferior function, too, one is overwhelmed, one is unhappy, one has one's great problem, one is constantly impressed by things, and therefore, in a way, the intensity of life is very often much greater there...

Basically it's the same deal for INTPs. We introvert the whole f*cking day, but we feel most alive and most "real" only when we are engaging Fe in some way. I have observed this manifest either through love of music (playing and listening), desire to help humanity, and craving validation/praise from others.

 

[DrSketchpad]

@Inquisitor

Was that from Man and His Symbols?

If not, do you know where it's from?

If so, I'll have to finish it.

 

[Pisi]

I think it could depend on you confidence in your social skills.
If I look at my own experience, I can certainly say that in the past I was far more able to socialize, now I'm closed in my very shell because I'm afraid of strangers. That happens because I was usually mocked as a child. Even though it happened quite rarely, I think this created a sort of "wall" between me and the people that is invalicable for almost everyone, and If I see a strange person along the road, or worse, a group of laughing and screaming guys, I feel like I am mocked again.
But, if I am with close friends, I'm not myself anymore. I feel like I'm protected and I'm able to do everything, also the strangest of things. It could be that you've spent a large amount of time socialising and now you are quite good at it. Or maybe you don't care that much about others' judgement anymore

For what concerns ENFJs... they are good partners for INTPs since they like to wander with their minds. I know a bunch of them and I held some interesting conversation with them. The amazing part is, while we think about a bit of everything, they actually talk with the world about the same things and can bring your interests in the conversations. Thus definitely they can be good chatting partners for intellectuals.

I'm still learning English, so if you find some errors please, don't kill me

 

[Inquisitor]

@Inquisitor

Was that from Man and His Symbols?

If not, do you know where it's from?

If so, I'll have to finish it.

Lectures on Jung's Typology by Marie Louise Von Franz and James Hillman. She's brilliant.