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The reason why INTP fail in social settings?

WALKYRIA

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Have you ever thought about what makes an interaction with someone or with a social group succesful?
I believe that that secret thing is : VALUE ADDITION.
When you can come up with extra value in a group setting or an interaction, you are viewed in a positive light(for a moment of course)... This works quasi all the time. Now the hard thing is to figure out what exactly you should do to add extra value to the group and that necessitates good instrospection...
Ideas?
I'll come to this later.


Now, what makes typical imature INTPs so lame in group settings? They don't care about adding any value to the group... they just bum around saying nothing at best(contrarely to ENTPs who may come up with jokes or INTJ who may come up with concrete solutions to a problem). If INTPs are anything like I was, they will even go as far as decreasing the overal value in the group(because they are nihilist afterall). If they are in a one on one interaction, people will go away and they would be still wondering why the sexy girl fled from them..


I believe that this is not only an INTP problem, but a general modern problem(especially in richer countries and capital cities) ... the cause? People are too self-absorbed and narcissitic(and also antagonistic) to dare :eek: adding value to someone's life or to another foreign group. The thing is it's really easy to add something valuable to someone's life, it doesn't cost anything( contrarily as we might believe) and the magical thing about it is that people give back twice or thrice more back.... they really do and consequently you feel good about your magical trick. I guess that's what NF love to praise as" positive things attract positive" , " positive energy yeaahh"and love to theorize it under "law of attraction". They knew it all before us NTs but thye couldn't put it in words. We found it out later.


Now ading value can be done in various manners and i different variation depending on the setting: A genuine smile, being relaxed( indicates that we enjoy being where we are to the other person), telling to the point stories and anecdotes, being energetic( indicates that we enjoy being there), being well mannered, helping out( clear way to add massive value), making other people laugh, taking the other people in high esteem, genuinely buying something for someone, ..Etc

I guess generosity is another word for this ritual.
Their are various ways to add value depending on the setting... some people can even go as far as becoming expert in adding value.


So tell me INTPs do you add any value to your closest friends, family and coworkers or even foreign peolpe ... or you add nothing or even decrease their value?
 

Brontosaurie

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I still don't get how you would be an INTP rather than an ENFP.

Do you see the relevance of this question?

I'm not trying to diss you or anything. Just sharing what comes to mind every time you post about being an INTP.
 

PaulMaster

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So tell me INTPs do you add any value to your closest friends, family and coworkers or even foreign peolpe ... or you add nothing or even decrease their value?
Value is subjective. So you'd have to ask them. But I believe I do. I'm a typical introvert in that I dont really like large group settings. But I've known for a long time that I thrive and genuinely enjoy small groups or one on one interactions where all parties are intelligent people. In those situations, if I have anything at all to say about it (which should be the case most of the time in small groups), we'll dive into depths and intellectual pursuits.

As valuable as these conversations are for me, I would imagine they offer at least some value for others as well.
 

Jennywocky

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I think the issues stated run regardless of type, it's more a matter of personal disposition + ability, not necessarily MBTI type. Either you're open to interacting with others or you close them out, regardless of your experience and personality; even when you suck at interacting, you can smile, not be an asshat, and be looking for ways to contribute / openings to share what you know or think with other people. (e5's -- spend and share that knowledge rather than hoarding it.)

there's a wide range of folks out there. I know very open people who probably interact too much without regard for others and how to connect, some people in the "middle ground," and then people who definitely put out vibes of "Get away from me" even when people engage them or come off as so negative that no one wants to talk to them.

I do worst in groups where I don't know people, although I'm open if someone engages me first and/or I can acclimatized well enough to start to engage. I can seem more extroverted in groups of close friends who I know well, where I stop 'screening' my words and actions and just be myself. I am good at either adding a twist to the conversation / bringing up something others haven't thought of, or at least in making people laugh a lot because of the directions my mind rockets off in. I like to laugh, I like to explore new angles, I like to see the humor in light or dark situations. One on one, where people have problems, I am told I'm a good listener and help them to feel calm and more positive/equipped since I will point out many options they haven't thought of yet, plus I don't seem judgmental even when they feel bad about themselves.

I think some of that is just practice + active listening; it's something that can be developed consciously. In fact, active listening is HUGELY helpful. Otherwise it's like driving with your eyes shut; if you want to navigate through something, why wouldn't you be examining the data flow -- what you're doing/saying and how people are responding, etc? -- and tweaking what you're doing to mesh with it?
 

Intolerable

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In a general sense people are more self absorbed than they have ever been. This is due to the nature of technology and how it works to circumvent 'wasteful' interactions. What I mean by this is that an evolving opinion is layered in such a way that human interpretation becomes valuable. A book really doesn't work well in that context. You could drop a note, pass it along to the next person but you can see the impracticality in that.

The blogs and forums are an entirely different animal. Human interaction is rampant. As soon as an opinion is published it is challenged. You no longer have the control on who you approach for a debate or discussion regarding your opinion. It is out there in the world for anybody to challenge.

How this affects the human psyche is pretty easy to follow. We're conditioned now to get a quick return on our investment ( the published opinion ). We've dispensed with the customs of meet, greet, dates and such to form social groups. All in favor of quick turnaround on our opinions and the validity of them among our peers.

This I think explains why you can be out in the world doing something and publish an opinion that will get ignored or at best vaguely explored. Wait bro! We're not behind our machines!

Also throw in Google and Wiki as well. It makes even more sense. So few people are willing to publish an opinion in person and even less willing to challenge one without the mighty Google and Wiki backing them up.


As for INTPs it works in our favor. We need so little and we treat Google and Wiki like a pica case treats toilet paper. We go ham on it.
 

Tannhauser

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I think there is too much focus on ass-kissing and people-pleasing in the world as it is. People should learn how to be cool, not how to kiss more ass.
 

Pyropyro

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I think there is too much focus on ass-kissing and people-pleasing in the world as it is. People should learn how to be cool, not how to kiss more ass.
I think it's one and the same. "Being cool" is simply people pleasing which addresses your needs/wants.
 

Architect

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Different types speak different social languages.

F dominants ('feelers") speak in the language of feeling in social contexts. "How are you doing?". "So good to see you!" and so forth.

S dominants have a unique patter that they all understand and you don't really. ES dominants focus on the quotidian - local news, light jokes and small talk. Si dominants are different, generally a more intense and focused version of the ES version just mentioned.

You (we), as NT's, and Ti dominants have a unique and rare communication entirely unlike the two previous, which dominate social situations. Taking any subject and discussing it intensely from an unusual perspective - or something along those lines is best. This is extremely off putting to the previous two communication style dominants. The good news is that when we try to be social we usually come off as quirky and interesting, the other types are usually happy to fit us in. From our perspective the situation usually seems like a disaster - living between two worlds as we do. It's not however, just relax and go with the flow.

I experience this myself, and am seeing it through the eyes (and from the outside) of my INTP teenager. People actually appreciate us more than we think usually.
 

Tannhauser

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I think it's one and the same. "Being cool" is simply people pleasing which addresses your needs/wants.
I'm afraid you haven't got a single clue about what being cool means.
 

Pyropyro

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I'm afraid you haven't got a single clue about what being cool means.
My bad, let's look at it from these perspectives:

Politician A caters to say the iNTP's. Politician A is "cool" according to the INTP's.

However, by catering to INTP, politician A forgot to address the problems of INTJ's. Naturally, INTJ's see the politician as just an "INTP pleaser".

The action "helping INTP's" is just one yet there are two ways to look at it.
 

Tannhauser

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My bad, let's look at it from these perspectives:

Politician A caters to say the iNTP's. Politician A is "cool" according to the INTP's.

However, by catering to INTP, politician A forgot to address the problems of INTJ's. Naturally, INTJ's see the politician as just an "INTP pleaser".

The action "helping INTP's" is just one yet there are two ways to look at it.
That's the thing. Being cool has nothing to do with anyone else's judgment of you. Being cool is not the same as being considered cool by others. Being cool is a state of mind.
 

Pyropyro

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That's the thing. Being cool has nothing to do with anyone else's judgment of you. Being cool is not the same as being considered cool by others. Being cool is a state of mind.
Oh now I get ya. So more like self-confidence?
 

Happy

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Perhaps a more appropriate word would be something along the lines of being 'aloof', not 'cool'. Or just 'giving zero fucks'.
 

Alias

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Oh now I get ya. So more like self-confidence?
A quote I like is "Cool doesn't come from other people; it comes from you."

That means it's personal to you. You don't have to be liked by everyone to be a chill person. Just float along and don't be a dick, and then you'll be cool.
 

onesteptwostep

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Being (most likely) an INTP and having to have to adjust to a multitude of social settings over the years, I would have to say that INTPs generally need time in order to adjust to the group. What this means generally is that the group needs time in order to adjust to you. I think this is aided when there's a prolonged absence after contact. Another way of looking at it is that you need an ENxx friend or wingman/woman to help you ease you into place. I've realized that most of my male friends are ENFP, while the females are xNFx. I don't think extroversion in social settings is how INTPs, or introverts in general, make friends. It's more common interest and being able to talk about that topic in a detached, theoretical way that allows for amiable relation.

Personally I'm pretty quiet in a multilateral setting, but I do well in one on ones. Any group that has over 4 people (me included) is a bit chaotic for me. I usually let others (the 'other' being 'the-most-likely-there-extrovert'), talk. My 'coolness' depends on whether the depth in the topic brought up is in my sphere of understanding. If it isn't then, I turn into a cat and put on my glasses.

(metaphorically of course)
 

Brontosaurie

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A quote I like is "Cool doesn't come from other people; it comes from you."

That means it's personal to you. You don't have to be liked by everyone to be a chill person. Just float along and don't be a dick, and then you'll be cool.
Oh damn for a second i thought this meant a license to be a floating dick. Now i'm disappointed.
 

Cherry Cola

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intps do add value in lots of ways, its just a lot of them s-types dont how to appreciate
 

deltamind106

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Have you ever thought about what makes an interaction with someone or with a social group succesful?
I believe that that secret thing is : VALUE ADDITION.
I would say the secret ingredient is that your presence/interaction must make the others in the group FEEL GOOD. I firmly believe all of human behavior can be boiled down to a single statement: "People tend to do what makes them feel good." This was true for Ted Bundy, Mother Theresa, and is true for everyone in this forum.
 

Pyropyro

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Being (most likely) an INTP and having to have to adjust to a multitude of social settings over the years, I would have to say that INTPs generally need time in order to adjust to the group. What this means generally is that the group needs time in order to adjust to you. I think this is aided when there's a prolonged absence after contact. Another way of looking at it is that you need an ENxx friend or wingman/woman to help you ease you into place. I've realized that most of my male friends are ENFP, while the females are xNFx. I don't think extroversion in social settings is how INTPs, or introverts in general, make friends. It's more common interest and being able to talk about that topic in a detached, theoretical way that allows for amiable relation.
I agree that INTP needs prep time whenever there's a social gathering. I use this strategy especially if I need to persuade someone with a higher rank than I do.

If pulled off correctly, the INTP is usually the "walking encyclopedia" of the group.

Personally I'm pretty quiet in a multilateral setting, but I do well in one on ones. Any group that has over 4 people (me included) is a bit chaotic for me. I usually let others (the 'other' being 'the-most-likely-there-extrovert'), talk.
Yup, 4 people is quite a comfortable number. More than that tends to overwhelm my senses.

My 'coolness' depends on whether the depth in the topic brought up is in my sphere of understanding. If it isn't then, I turn into a cat and put on my glasses.

(metaphorically of course)
Dude, turning to a cat is an INTJ power, you gotta use our spirit animal: Owl :p
 

Haim

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On a deep level, I just don't care, like a kid that hate math/history/other and don't pay attention to class but have more important things to do like to draw or think.Sure I can make myself listen, hell even have good grades, but I still don't care.I don't care what is socially happening.
 
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