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The Reason Why We Exist...

Epic Leather

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More of a pole to see if this keeps my fellow INTPs up at night...

The question of Why? Why do we exist, to what purpose are we given such status? Why was the universe created?

I understand this is why religion is still around and it is questions like these that lead to the birth of philosophy and science. But these questions never bother me, in fact I find myself never asking "Why" but "How?" I am in the middle of Lawrence Krauss's book A Universe from Nothing and he made a statement that science asks how, not why, and when the question why is postulated, its real intent is to ask how.

I understand the Evolutionary process for life, and through that I can grasp the evolution of the cosmos. To me we exist because we were fortunate to be on a planet capable of starting the spark of life and sustaining it. We are alive to continue living and passing our genes on, to continue life. It is built into us. The universe exists because it does, and I don’t need a reason, a higher purpose to give my life purpose. Knowing this my brain never asks "why" are we here, at least from a philosophical stand point. It is just an irrelevant question and statement as far as I am concerned; it never keeps me up at night. I am more interested in the process, in figuring out what happened and where we will go and how far our quest for knowledge will take us. The aspect of death also doesn't terrify me, I don’t long for it, but I am perfectly at peace with the notion that this is probably it and there is nothing but, well nothing after we die.

This may also be because I was raised in an extremely fundamental religious household. I spent a lot of my childhood being taught to fear death and perhaps I've just grown numb to the idea. But I'm curious if it’s also an INTP thing, the not worrying about what most of the human race does: To what purpose are we here and why? I know humans are curious creatures and this can really hinder someone's personal growth if they worry about it... but I don't.

I just don’t care about why, I want to understand how. But then again, I may just be a robot.

Thoughts?
 

TheScornedReflex

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Are you trying to bring about mass existential despair? If so, kudos to you.


I believe the how and why are one and the same when it comes to the question of existing.
 

SpaceYeti

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I basically agree with everything you've said. Everyone's so concerned about questions that are, ultimately, nonsense. It's difficult to retain respect for people who call these thoughts "deep", when they're actually just scared of being dead. I certainly can't claim I look forward to being dead, or anything. In fact, I want to avoid it as long as possible, since everything I like to do requires that I be alive.

Dying, on the other hand, is pretty scary. It's bound to hurt a whole lot. Yet people are more concerned with making sure terminally ill people stay alive than are relieved of their pain. I mean, being relieved of pain is something attempted, but if they're dying slowly and nothing can be done, why not allow them to do something about it? What's the point in forcing them to suffer just because you think death is worse than a painful life? Do those suffering agree with you?

I guess I kind of went off on a tangent, but laws based on ignorance and deep fear are bad laws. I've had family members suffer from strokes and other such problems, become essentially bags of meat who are just waiting until they die, and then die. When they died, I was happy for them. They were no longer trapped in a such a miserable condition.

One of my uncles suffered a stroke. He tried to get his gun, because he knew what was happening, and the medics wrestled it away from him... to "save his life". Good work. He's been in a home for five years, miserable, unable to speak, doped up, barely conscious, and he hates it. He wants to be dead, unambiguously. Thanks for your help, medics.
 

Nezaros

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Science asks how, philosophy addresses why. "Why?" is a good question to ask, and it may lead to some theories, but in the end it's completely impossible to prove or disprove any of those theories, which is why we still have religious sects running about. I don't think refraining from "why" is an INTP trait; it's more for people who're fed up with not having anything to go on and preferring to ask "how" instead. I constantly think about "why", but, knowing that it's fruitless, don't spend much energy on it. It's fairly liberating, not needing to have that question answered, but I know many, if not most people, can't survive without it.
 

SpaceYeti

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Are you trying to bring about mass existential despair? If so, kudos to you.


I believe the how and why are one and the same when it comes to the question of existing.
I believe the "why" is silly. Asking why we exist is tantamount to asking why a rock rolled down a hill. It didn't consider it's options, it just got loose and fell. "Why" implies intent. You can live for things you decide to value, sure. I live for my children, and to do fun things I enjoy, but that's more like a metaphorical why than the actual reason I was conceived and then born.
 

TheScornedReflex

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I believe the "why" is silly. Asking why we exist is tantamount to asking why a rock rolled down a hill. It didn't consider it's options, it just got loose and fell. "Why" implies intent. You can live for things you decide to value, sure. I live for my children, and to do fun things I enjoy, but that's more like a metaphorical why than the actual reason I was conceived and then born.
I apologize for being to vague. What I meant is:

The how, when finally understood (by science and maybe some people), will become the why. As we can then explain why something happens or has happened..


Or something :confused:.
 

EyeSeeCold

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"Why" implies intent.
Causation does not imply intent. 'Why' searches for explicit causative factors. Which can include an intentional desired outcome / purpose but doesn't have to.

Why an apple can fall off a tree and hit someone on the head is because of gravity and a weakened stem. There is no intent, unless you consider the intent to be the apple reaching equilibrium.

Why water falls from the sky is because of evaporation and precipitation. Why a door creaks is because of friction at the hinges.



How - The process
Why - The cause, and if applicable, the desired result or purpose.


'Why' is the philosophical bridge towards the 'how' of science, the driving force behind many scientific inquiries.
 

snafupants

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What makes you think why applies here? Humans create meaning.
 

SpaceYeti

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Causation does not imply intent. 'Why' searches for explicit causative factors. Which can include an intentional desired outcome / purpose but doesn't have to.

Why an apple can fall off a tree and hit someone on the head is because of gravity and a weakened stem. There is no intent, unless you consider the intent to be the apple reaching equilibrium.

Why water falls from the sky is because of evaporation and precipitation. Why a door creaks is because of friction at the hinges.



How - The process
Why - The cause, and if applicable, the desired result or purpose.


'Why' is the philosophical bridge towards the 'how' of science, the driving force behind many scientific inquiries.
Right. The thing is, though, that the effective difference between the two words is that one includes intent. That is, the cause of something is essentially the same thing as the process. Or, rather, once we break things down as far as we can, we have a list of causes and effects, and it answers both "how" and "why"... so that the only difference between using either word, that is, the reason to use one instead of the other, is for the differences in the words, which is the intent thing. If you ask "How did the rock fall" or "Why did the rock fall", you're essentially asking the same question. If you ask "How did you fix the car" or "Why did you fix the car", the difference is obvious, though. All because of "why" involving intent.

Thus, "Why am I alive" is a different question from "How am I alive". Using it metaphorically, "why" can be what you find valuable in your life. Using it in an objective manner, it's the same thing as "how", except there are those who presume some "greater meaning" (whatever that even means) to their life, which is an utterly nonsensical, existential question that has no answer, because "greater purpose/meaning" doesn't make sense. Either you value it, or you don't. Even if there is some deity or whatever who made you for whatever purpose, that's something it values. You might, you might not, and it answers the "why", but it's useless. You still either value it, or you don't, and act accordingly.
 

GodOfOrder

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I would have to say that the reason for my existence is that I was born, a special thing in and of itself, as the probability was incredibly small.

But as for the why, I would have to say that everything in this universe exists for the same purpose, that purpose is simply to exist, and play out whatever we play out in actuality.

To act within the bounds of what is possible, and interact with other objects and agents, thus bringing out new outcomes in an endless cycle of cause and effect.

I also like the multiverse theory in which every possible outcome, for every action, is played out somewhere. Because every possibility exists somewhere, some universes are imperceptibly different, and others differ radically.

In the end all things that are possible exist, not just in theory but exist somewhere in physical space. The thing that brought about your existence may even differ, but all that matters is your existence.

But in the end all we have in a given universe is probability, but when we look at the entire multiverse we actually have 100% certainty of an event taking place.

So in the end, whatever you do, it was bound to happen anyway, and your role was simply to be the agent that carried out an action, thus leading to a new chain of causality, and a new continuity. This is your purpose in life, influence actuality as you may. It can look like whatever you want but regardless of you choice, any action you take will accomplish this purpose, which is to exist and to act.
 

EyeSeeCold

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Right. The thing is, though, that the effective difference between the two words is that one includes intent. That is, the cause of something is essentially the same thing as the process. Or, rather, once we break things down as far as we can, we have a list of causes and effects, and it answers both "how" and "why"... so that the only difference between using either word, that is, the reason to use one instead of the other, is for the differences in the words, which is the intent thing. If you ask "How did the rock fall" or "Why did the rock fall", you're essentially asking the same question. If you ask "How did you fix the car" or "Why did you fix the car", the difference is obvious, though. All because of "why" involving intent.

Thus, "Why am I alive" is a different question from "How am I alive". Using it metaphorically, "why" can be what you find valuable in your life. Using it in an objective manner, it's the same thing as "how", except there are those who presume some "greater meaning" (whatever that even means) to their life, which is an utterly nonsensical, existential question that has no answer, because "greater purpose/meaning" doesn't make sense. Either you value it, or you don't. Even if there is some deity or whatever who made you for whatever purpose, that's something it values. You might, you might not, and it answers the "why", but it's useless. You still either value it, or you don't, and act accordingly.
They can overlap, but if you're looking for the cause of something('what' and 'who') you don't have to get into the specific process(how) of it. Intent is an extra step of inquiry that depends on the person asking.
 

SpaceYeti

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They can overlap, but if you're looking for the cause of something('what' and 'who') you don't have to get into the specific process(how) of it. Intent is an extra step of inquiry that depends on the person asking.
Yes, but "how" is more specific. It answers exactly the same question "why" does (you don't know how something happened if you don't know how the process initiated). "Why" is a more ambiguous way to ask a question about objective processes due to including intent, which means if someone's using "why" instead of "how", there might be a reason they worded it that way.
 

EyeSeeCold

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'Why does water fall from the sky', 'why does a door creak', and 'why does an apple fall from a tree' are not ambiguous.

They only overlap when the understanding of a process includes the initiative factor, which is not always the case.
 

Hawkeye

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Why are we here?
Because we're here...
Roll the bones.
Why does it happen?
Because it happens...
Roll the bones
:pigs:
 

BigApplePi

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... but if they're dying slowly and nothing can be done, why not allow them to do something about it? What's the point in forcing them to suffer just because you think death is worse than a painful life?

One of my uncles suffered a stroke. He tried to get his gun, because he knew what was happening, and the medics wrestled it away from him... to "save his life". Good work. He's been in a home for five years, miserable, unable to speak, doped up, barely conscious, and he hates it. He wants to be dead, unambiguously. Thanks for your help, medics.
I recently saw a movie about the partisans in Denmark. They went around killing Nazi's. When they closed in on one partisan he knew if they caught him he wouldn't die pleasantly. He was ready ... the pill lay on the table.

Does your story teach us a lesson? Should we be ready?
 

BigApplePi

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I also like the multiverse theory in which every possible outcome, for every action, is played out somewhere. Because every possibility exists somewhere, some universes are imperceptibly different, and others differ radically.

In the end all things that are possible exist, not just in theory but exist somewhere in physical space.
Another multi-verse possibility is things occur at random meaning every possibility doesn't have to exist, just other combinations will exist ... like when you throw the dice.
 

SpaceYeti

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I recently saw a movie about the partisans in Denmark. They went around killing Nazi's. When they closed in on one partisan he knew if they caught him he wouldn't die pleasantly. He was ready ... the pill lay on the table.

Does your story teach us a lesson? Should we be ready?
I'm going to be ready when I'm an eighty year old man. Whether I actually do it, I dunno if I'll have the balls. I tried to cut myself before, just to see if I had the nards for it. I don't. I have an aversion to hurting myself I cannot seem to overcome. I was also using a serrated knife, and I was super worried I'd go too far and need stitches. I suppose it's good for now. But when I'm an old man, with my family's history of stroke? Fuck, a bullet in the head is a far superior way to go than five years of being bedridden and unable to communicate effectively, in pain, doped up... that's not living.
 

Nezaros

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I also like the multiverse theory in which every possible outcome, for every action, is played out somewhere. Because every possibility exists somewhere, some universes are imperceptibly different, and others differ radically.
Multiverse theory to me sounds like a lousy attempt at violating causality. "Why do things happen?" Because first this happened, and as a result, this happened, then this, then this, and so on. Multiverse theory implies that a single cause can possibly result in several contradictory effects, which is nonsense.
 

GodOfOrder

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Multiverse theory to me sounds like a lousy attempt at violating causality. "Why do things happen?" Because first this happened, and as a result, this happened, then this, then this, and so on. Multiverse theory implies that a single cause can possibly result in several contradictory effects, which is nonsense.
Not at all, think of anything you have done or experienced and I am certain you can conceive of more than one possible consequence. And Considering we are consciously acting agents, it is entirely possible that if even all spacial activity stays almost identical, it is still conceivable that human activity would differ. Even the slightest difference in events makes a difference to the multiverse.
 

Hawkeye

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I think the multi-verse theory is only useful at indulging the mind in the numerous (not infinite) possibilities that can occur at any given moment.

For if multi-verses exist, there is no such thing as free-will because every possibility will have already been mapped out. Unless one is implying that a new universe is created every time a "choice" occurs :rolleyes:
 

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I think the multi-verse theory is only useful at indulging the mind in the numerous (not infinite) possibilities that can occur at any given moment.

For if multi-verses exist, there is no such thing as free-will because every possibility will have already been mapped out. Unless one is implying that a new universe is created every time a "choice" occurs :rolleyes:
I am implying that, but that doesn't mean I have answered the question of freewill. In regards to that, I really don't know.
 

SpaceYeti

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If another entire universe springs into existence every time someone makes a decision, where's the energy which composes the ne universe come from? No, this theory is obviously bogus. Universes can't just magically spring into existence just because we made a decision.
 

John_Mann

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The appearing and disappearing of quantum particles maybe is the solution to multi universe. Same way the phone lines works.
 

BigApplePi

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@SpaceYeti
I'm going to be ready when I'm an eighty year old man. Whether I actually do it, I dunno if I'll have the balls. I tried to cut myself before, just to see if I had the nards for it. I don't. I have an aversion to hurting myself I cannot seem to overcome. I was also using a serrated knife, and I was super worried I'd go too far and need stitches. I suppose it's good for now. But when I'm an old man, with my family's history of stroke? Fuck, a bullet in the head is a far superior way to go than five years of being bedridden and unable to communicate effectively, in pain, doped up... that's not living.
I don't get why deliberation is so difficult for all of us. If we decide to lose consciousness by going to sleep ... no problem. We get plenty of practice every night. So what's the big deal doing the same and not waking up?
 

SpaceYeti

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The appearing and disappearing of quantum particles maybe is the solution to multi universe. Same way the phone lines works.
Um... What?
 

Hawkeye

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Um... What?
The idea is that the particles "disappear" into an alternate universe briefly before returning back to ours.

The phone line was a crazy metaphor however :phear:
 

Cognisant

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Multiverse theory to me sounds like a lousy attempt at violating causality. "Why do things happen?" Because first this happened, and as a result, this happened, then this, then this, and so on. Multiverse theory implies that a single cause can possibly result in several contradictory effects, which is nonsense.
Another believer in the clockwork universe! :D (like myself)

If another entire universe springs into existence every time someone makes a decision, where's the energy which composes the ne universe come from?
Not when someone makes a decision, you're confusing multiverse theory with subjectivist free will nonsense, in actual multiverse theory it's not that new universes are "created" rather everything that could possibly occur, right down to every single subatomic event and perhaps further, exists simultaneously, or rather just exists and our perception of time is an illusionary thing like a story occurring spontaneously in an infinite database, which of course if it's infinite then every possible story will exist in it.

Sorry it's hard to talk about things outside of time, but you know what I mean right?
 

SpaceYeti

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Another believer in the clockwork universe! :D (like myself)


Not when someone makes a decision, you're confusing multiverse theory with subjectivist free will nonsense, in actual multiverse theory it's not that new universes are "created" rather everything that could possibly occur, right down to every single subatomic event and perhaps further, exists simultaneously, or rather just exists and our perception of time is an illusionary thing like a story occurring spontaneously in an infinite database, which of course if it's infinite then every possible story will exist in it.

Sorry it's hard to talk about things outside of time, but you know what I mean right?
We have no reason to presume an event exists which causes any parallel universe to have similar layout or occurrence as ours. That is, why would the particles which compose an alternate universe just happen to be layed out in almost exactly the same pattern as the ones in this universe, and why would they be different only during quantum occurrences?
 

GodOfOrder

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Another believer in the clockwork universe! :D (like myself)


Not when someone makes a decision, you're confusing multiverse theory with subjectivist free will nonsense, in actual multiverse theory it's not that new universes are "created" rather everything that could possibly occur, right down to every single subatomic event and perhaps further, exists simultaneously, or rather just exists and our perception of time is an illusionary thing like a story occurring spontaneously in an infinite database, which of course if it's infinite then every possible story will exist in it.

Sorry it's hard to talk about things outside of time, but you know what I mean right?
This makes far more sense, thank you for clarifying it for me.
 

scorpiomover

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This may also be because I was raised in an extremely fundamental religious household. I spent a lot of my childhood being taught to fear death and perhaps I've just grown numb to the idea. But I'm curious if it’s also an INTP thing, the not worrying about what most of the human race does: To what purpose are we here and why? I know humans are curious creatures and this can really hinder someone's personal growth if they worry about it... but I don't.

I just don’t care about why, I want to understand how. But then again, I may just be a robot.

Thoughts?
I was raised in an extremely educated religious community. Asking questions was not just encouraged. Asking questions was considered MANDATORY. Understanding things was seen as a goal in itself, not just the why, but the how, and the "everything else". Any answer was checked for consistency against everything else. Thus, asking why was as useful as asking how, in such a culture, and both were required to follow reason, logic and evidence, to an extremely high degree.
 

BigApplePi

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Answer 2 Our Existence

If you will allow me, I will offer an answer to this question, The Reason Why We Exist... It's an answer coming from my intuition so you might say that isn't saying much. It won't work very well if your intuition doesn't buy it as well****.

First let me define, "answer." By "answer" I mean an awareness of possibilities which contain THE answer. We may not know which, but that's okay because we don't know anything for sure anyway. No sense in chasing windmills.

There are only two possibilties: (1) Nothing exists, (2) Something exists. If you are in the first camp, be my guest. I can't speak for you. If you are in the second camp, there are only two possibilities: (1) You & I exist*, (2) Something other than us exists**. If we accept one or the other of those, there are two possibilities: (1) Local existence has a finite environment and*** when broken down reaches inviolate atomistic entities, (2) Local existence is part of infinite surroundings and also can be broken down without limit.

I now proceed with more intuition. I don't care for #1 and who says there is any such thing as inviolate entities? What gives them the right not to be parsed? In addition, a finite environment gives special attributes to existence as it means this existence exists while other existences don't.

I like #2. It means existence goes on forever and without definition. For example if we exist at a certain level within a hierarchy, so what? Pick any point in this hierarchy and that point is arbitrary. If we go lower, it doesn't matter as we can go higher or lower to any degree. If we go higher, say to a galaxy, we can also go higher or lower to any degree, especially if we allow for multiverses. An analogy is the number line: ... -2, -1, 0, 1, 2 ... . Doesn't matter which number you pick. It's infinite either way.

Summary: We exist because we exist. There is no questioning where, when or why this is so because no matter where one starts to answer, both the causes and the ramifications are infinite. "342" exists because 341 exists and there is no stopping what went before.

Note that there are two more possibilities: (1) The above is good thinking, (2) the above is sloppy thinking. Doesn't matter. I never said this was right.:D
__________________________________
*I'm not parsing that.:mad:
**I won't address what that is.:confused:
***I refuse to parse the "and" condition.:D
****I don't care to be alone in the Universe. Need to share.:phear:
 

Hawkeye

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Urrgh, the use of infinity still makes me feel funny BAP - ever since our first conversation on it 3 years ago. I'll only accept that pseudo-infinities exist where the illusion of infinity is achieved - Möbius loops for example. :p



I don't think will ever discover the objective why (if there even is one). However, this does not stop us from generating many, many subjective whys.

Honestly, I prefer it this way because the chances are that man made whys will be far more interesting and thought provoking.

A more important question is "what does it matter?"

Learning why we are here could have a seriously negative effect on one's reasons for getting out of bed in the morning.
 

SpaceYeti

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I find it amusing that there isn't enough evidence to suggest we are not living in a simulation similar to the Matrix.
Exactly what sort of evidence could there possibly be for that in the first place?
 

BigApplePi

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Infinity is a No-no

Hi Hawkeye
Urrgh, the use of infinity still makes me feel funny BAP - ever since our first conversation on it 3 years ago. I'll only accept that pseudo-infinities exist where the illusion of infinity is achieved - Möbius loops for example. :p
I don't recall our conversation of 3 years ago but it would be interesting to see what it was. I think you are correct I jumped ahead and misused that word. An unfortunate shortcut. Infinity is something seen from the outside and we have no right to assume we can be there outside. I've avoided any reference to religion so far, but we could say, if one were religious, that only God can see anything infinite.

Even that Mobius loop you referred to carries the notion of infinity as it assumes one can go around and around forever meaning infinite time. Actually we don't even need a Mobius to do that as any loop will do in two dimensions.

Let me see if I can fix the problem.
... I will offer an answer to this question, The Reason Why We Exist... ... there are two possibilities: (1) Local existence has a finite environment and when broken down reaches inviolate atomistic entities, (2) Local existence is part of infinite surroundings and also can be broken down without limit.

I now proceed with more intuition. I don't care for #1 ...
I like #2. It means existence goes on forever and without definition. For example if we exist at a certain level within a hierarchy, so what? Pick any point in this hierarchy and that point is arbitrary. If we go lower, it doesn't matter as we can go higher or lower to any degree. If we go higher, say to a galaxy, we can also go higher or lower to any degree, especially if we allow for multiverses. An analogy is the number line: ... -2, -1, 0, 1, 2 ... . Doesn't matter which number you pick. It's infinite either way.

Summary: We exist because we exist. There is no questioning where, when or why this is so because no matter where one starts to answer, both the causes and the ramifications are infinite. "342" exists because 341 exists and there is no stopping what went before.
... I will offer an answer to this question, The Reason Why We Exist... ... there are two possibilities: (1) Local existence has a finite environment and when broken down reaches inviolate atomistic entities, (2) Local existence is inside surroundings as one shell within another which keep going on and also can be broken down further and further until we get tired.

Proceeding with more intuition. #1 is a possibility. It means we have a special place in the order of things. Take note we have been fooled before ... once thinking the heavens revolved around the Earth. It is part of man's conceit that we think we are special. When we say that, we have to ask, "Compared to what?" Perhaps we are special because we are while all the rest knows nothing of the kind ... as far as we know.

I like #2. It means existence goes on until we get tired of looking. For example if we exist at a certain level within a hierarchy, so what? Pick any other arbitrary point in this hierarchy. If we go lower or higher, it doesn't matter as we can keep going higher or lower. If we go higher, say to a galaxy, we can still go higher, especially if we allow for multiverses. We need not have a stopping point. If we go lower, say to the strings of String Theory, we still have to ask, what kind of strings? Is each different from the other and what properties does it have? That means we can continue going lower.

An analogy is the number line: ... -2, -1, 0, 1, 2 ... . Doesn't matter which number you start with. We can keeping adding or subtracting one indefinitely in either direction.

Summary: We exist because we exist. There is no questioning where, when or why this is so because no matter where one starts to answer, both the causes and the ramifications go on as far and as long as we like. "342" exists because 341 exists and there is no stopping what went before as long as we don't get tired or run out of room. Similarly with 343.

I don't think will ever discover the objective why (if there even is one). However, this does not stop us from generating many, many subjective whys.
Honestly, I prefer it this way because the chances are that man made whys will be far more interesting and thought provoking.

A more important question is "what does it matter?"

Learning why we are here could have a seriously negative effect on one's reasons for getting out of bed in the morning.
Why = cause, does it not? My answer is we are here because we are here. The alternative is discarded. It matters not at all which place in the hierarchy of existence we pick. It's still existence. Now we can get out of bed after all.
 

scorpiomover

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I find it amusing that there isn't enough evidence to suggest we are not living in a simulation similar to the Matrix.
Even if we ARE living in a real universe, the way we perceive, is by our nerves sending electrical signals to our brains, which our brains use to make an interpretation of reality. Replace the nerves with electrical cables giving electrical inputs, and the interpretation as our own personal digital simulation, and there really isn't any difference between the way our brains perceive reality and the Matrix, except that in the film, everyone is part of the same Matrix, while the way our brains perceive, we are each living in our own individual personal Matrices.
 

kvothe27

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Perhaps the question "Why" has such staying power because, psychologically, on some level, we feel the need to anthropomorphize. In animism, the world is a place of subjects. As anthropomorphism becomes increasingly limited in explanation ( note that animism was replaced by polytheism, which was replaced by monotheism, and monotheism's explanatory power is becoming increasingly limited), perhaps we will suffer psychologically for it. Objective explanations might not be as emotionally satisfying for us on some level. And, perhaps, many of us have to suffer for it in the pursuit of scientific explanation. As to how much suffering will be endured, it may depend on individual dispositions. I don't really know. I'm just Ne'ing up the place.
 

Sorlaize

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Even if we ARE living in a real universe, the way we perceive, is by our nerves sending electrical signals to our brains, which our brains use to make an interpretation of reality. Replace the nerves with electrical cables giving electrical inputs, and the interpretation as our own personal digital simulation, and there really isn't any difference between the way our brains perceive reality and the Matrix, except that in the film, everyone is part of the same Matrix, while the way our brains perceive, we are each living in our own individual personal Matrices.
As I'm finding out increasingly, the matrix represents all the wildly inappropriate falsities, delusions and fantasies we have created as to who and what we are, in the context of society [media & distractive advertising; idol worship; modern living comforts far removed in appearance from the cost of their production] & modern industrialized life just as much as our perceptions of existence itself.

In particular I know that our physical world is the only thing that can be said to truly exist, in its entirety, in every moment that we pass through-- our brains, perceiving images 80ms behind & creating their own sense of colours and meanings of, what is really truly there, are fully immersed in, technically, a sensory dream or fake environment. What we feel and taste and touch is, ultimately, the brain connecting up existing maps of information to that of the input. And this dovetails with the systemic nature of the matrix; the programming symbols in the final 'vision' scene. Infact there's loads to be written about, particularly spiritually, what the 'vision' scene symbolizes;- the breaking down of what was previously perceived to be a meaningful reality; now, a system with individual people as the tiny cogs that shape its flow. But, more than that: the matrix highlights how we are so attached to our fake reality that we will all gladly individually die rather than face the truth; we have paralyzed ourselves to the truth of existence and, cowardly, despite our cliche hero videogame and movie plots we create for ourselves, we wish to remain ignorant of what existence is and to not have to confront it.

When it applies to all of us, we are overwhelmed and defeated. This global collective subconscious cultural feeling of looming danger is manifested in the zombie apocalypse fiction; in the reactions to the economic crisis; in the all-too-hasty responses to war propaganda. The matrix engulfs us whether we like to deny it and claim race or nation superiority of not; it is there nevertheless holding us and everything we are; and we would be foolish not to learn from history & the scientific nature of our reality, which lie well beyond and outside the realms of human meaning, in truth. Existence must be confronted, we must all (or at least those of us that would survive the increasingly likely crises all converging onto each other) swallow the red pill and with it the systems that we still do not recognize to threaten all of us most gravely and more than any other threat in history. We still do not understand what we are, and that alone with daily threats of extinction should be enough to horrify and humble us all. We are trading the entire future of human existence for the life we have today, and this is not even a conscious decision.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgBViHeiSKM

We should be aware that, for example, it is only 'visiting' people who suffer while the non-human system of the industrialized world trudges on, for the mere sake of tradition and boredom. We should be aware that greatness is not about how many people you can have working and pulling down trees for you, but how many people can live in peaceful and non-taxing living conditions for as long a time as possible, continuing to contribute and produce the kinds of objects and events a civilization can be proud of, and happy to continue fostering for the next 100 million years [a mere half-second if we scale the current universe's age to 1 minute] and beyond. It was never a matter of employee vs. employee; race vs. race; rich vs. poor; hardcore Christians vs. homosexuals or atheists; government vs. people ..it was human beings vs. the scientific nature of reality on the only planet we will ever have. Will we pull the plug on our minds? (safely)? There doesn't seem to be much time left, if any. The matrix holds almost every single human being alive in its grasp, most of all those in power.
 
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