Why Must Stories Have Conflict?

[Duxwing]

Why must stories have conflict? I seek proof--even of the rote response "to be interesting"--that no story lacking conflict can interest anyone.

I seek proof because each year I have attended school I have been assigned only stories more horrible than the ones I had been assigned the previous year--except the first year because no year preceded it--and the teacher assigning them has always praised them more than the previous teacher praised the previous stories, leading me to two dubious and mutually-exclusive conclusions:

• The propostion whose proof I seek. If this conclusion is true, then I have blundered and my understanding of my previous reasoning and therefore my self-understanding is fundamentally flawed.
• Some stories lacking conflict can interest someone. If it is true, then everyone who has claimed otherwise has erred and my childish intellect bested them; furthermore, my understanding of human value-judgment would be fundamentally flawed and the academic praise of each story could boundlessly increase with the horror of the story unto hysterical exultation.

-Duxwing

 

[Pyropyro]

Here you go Dux, for fun

Basically no conflict equals no story.

If I'm looking at a conflict less piece then I'm probably either reading a non-fiction book or unsorted ramblings.

 

[Duxwing]

Here you go Dux, for fun

Basically no conflict equals no story.

If I'm looking at a conflict less piece then I'm probably either reading a non-fiction book or unsorted ramblings.

I already read that article, which gives me that same rote answer: I want proof! >_<

-Duxwing

 

[Absurdity]

What constitutes proof? What would a story without conflict look like?

Poems certainly can be without conflict, although you get into tricky territory with that conclusion without having defined "conflict."

Personally I enjoy stories from a primarily a-rational perspective. Don't care to prove this or that about what makes them good or not, it's intuitive.

 

[Pyropyro]

I already read that article, which gives me that same rote answer: I want proof! >_<

-Duxwing

Dux, why don't you write one? Post it here and I'll judge. How's that for proof? You're basically asking people that 1=0 yet you don't show your own proof.

 

[Pyropyro]

What constitutes proof? What would a story without conflict look like?

Poems certainly can be without conflict, although you get into tricky territory with that conclusion without having defined "conflict."

Personally I enjoy stories from a primarily a-rational perspective. Don't care to prove this or that about what makes them good or not, it's intuitive.

I'll hazard the guess that while poetry may not inherently tell a story, they invoke their readers to make a story about them. It's like artworks, they don't tell you their story but you sometimes make a story about them internally.

 

[redbaron]

Find an interesting story that doesn't involve some kind of conflict then.

Conflict is a pretty broad concept. It could be internal, external, emotional, physical, mental, subtle, obvious, dangerous, benign or any combination or number of other things.

The point of conflict in stories is to allow characters to grow. If there's literally no conflict, how would they evolve? A story where all the characters are one-dimensional and unchanging would be pretty boring.

 

[Hawkeye]

Stories don't have to have conflict; however, they are boring as fuck.

They are about as interesting as "I've just had a lovely cooked breakfast this morning, like I always have every morning ".

 

[redbaron]

They are about as interesting as "I've just had a lovely cooked breakfast this morning, like I always have every morning ".

That was riveting! What happens next?

 

[Polaris]

They are about as interesting as "I've just had a lovely cooked breakfast this morning, like I always have every morning ".

I actually found that quite soothing...

More to the point; sometimes I find stories that sort of just amble around in a meditating fashion to be some of the greatest reads. For this reason, I sometimes pick up some eastern literature like the Tibetan Book of the Dead, or read some Chinese zen poetry.

I can read the most graphic crime-horror stories, however, after a while they all become kind of samey, so authors like Haruki Murakami who interweaves the seemingly mundane with the starkly violent has found a style of writing which perfectly balances the two, in my view. I think his style of story writing is far more realistic in that respect; it is often the most trivial that represents the most shattering of human experience. The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle is a great read.

Edit: Another point: I think subtlety is important. Avoiding obvious personal moral bias through the narrative leaves judgement open to the reader. So, one could describe conflicts in non-dramatic and subtle ways which avoids forcing morals; the reader is thus not treated as some bottle that needs to be filled, but rather an autonomous entity capable of making judgements based on the data supplied and their own subsequent reasoning. The difference is whether one wishes to merely entertain or to challenge the reader.

 

[BigApplePi]

What stories would have no conflict? How about travel? In the story the reader is like a passenger in a vehicle looking out the window. No decisions. Just description of passing scenery. What other examples? I can't think of any offhand. (Witnessing is like travel except you aren't moving.)

On the other hand if a story has decision making that automatically brings in conflict. The conflict is about the decision. Which way to go? What to do? Active-ity. Passive-ity is like the passenger in the vehicle.

One doesn't HAVE to have conflict but for the story to sell, the passenger must enjoy the scenery.

Later: Another possibility is the story itself is without conflict but it is arousing. In this case the conflict is in the witnesser ... outside the story.

 

[Jennywocky]

He lifted up the paper. "What an interesting day," he said to her. "The weather is supposed to be nice, Netflix prices are rising but no one is upset about it because it is good quality programming, they have canceled football this year and made it exercise class instead (to positive acclaim), and there is a supermart opening on Bieneventos Avenue."

"That's lovely, dear," she said, flipping his breakfast onto a plate for him -- the savory smell of bacon and eggs wafting through the kitchen. There was a click as the toast finished and sprang up in the toaster, perfectly browned. There was even real butter on the table.

"hi Mom, hi Dad!" said Susie, walking through the kitchen and grabbing a Pop Tart out of the box -- just her fair share, nothing more, nothing less. They used to argue about her eating too many Pop Tarts, but since she ate a healthy lunch of vegetables and yogurt, they were fine with her choosing her own breakfast.

"I gotta go, I don't want to miss the bus." She was always up on time and never missed the bus. She was utterly responsible and perfectly competent at fulfilling parental expectation. She gave her mother a big hug and kissed her father before walking out the door in her entirely tasteful top and pair of perfectly pressed purple pants.

"She's a wonderful girl, isn't she?" he said, folding the paper back to read page three.

"Hmmm?" his wife replied.

"She's wonderful," he repeated. She paused a moment. "Oh. Oh, yes, Stanley, she is," she said while scrubbing at something in the sink. "Just like her father."

"And just like her mother," Stanley Horofutz said, staring at his wife's back.

But now he wondered why she had paused.





... my question for you is, when did the story become interesting?

 

[BigApplePi]

... my question for you is, when did the story become interesting?

There is the implied assumption this story is interesting ... and I say it is.

Answer: When a sufficient picture was painted enough to wonder what would happen next. Typically such a story is leading up to something: what?

Added: The little drama at the end adds interest as to if this is leading to something more ...

 

[OrLevitate]

Why must stories have conflict? I seek proof--even of the rote response "to be interesting"--that no story lacking conflict can interest anyone.

I seek proof because each year I have attended school I have been assigned only stories more horrible than the ones I had been assigned the previous year--except the first year because no year preceded it--and the teacher assigning them has always praised them more than the previous teacher praised the previous stories, leading me to two dubious and mutually-exclusive conclusions:

• The propostion whose proof I seek. If this conclusion is true, then I have blundered and my understanding of my previous reasoning and therefore my self-understanding is fundamentally flawed.
• Some stories lacking conflict can interest someone. If it is true, then everyone who has claimed otherwise has erred and my childish intellect bested them; furthermore, my understanding of human value-judgment would be fundamentally flawed and the academic praise of each story could boundlessly increase with the horror of the story unto hysterical exultation.

-Duxwing

just an easy, or just obvious, method to make interesting story, it's not a requirement, not a "must". Oh, proof. Uhh.

Sheila is in the Congolese jungle. She has no reason to be there other than her fleeting interest in a species of monkey called bonobos, also known as pan paniscus. Ever since she won the lottery, she has had -zero- conflict in her life. Sheila saunters around the Congo as if it were her living room. Even though she won the lottery, she didn't buy any new clothes. In fact, she's not currently wearing any. She's stark naked, wandering around the Congo, looking for monkeys, because she wants to. Shelia simply doesn't give a ****.


-Maybe anyone can see a conflict in anything, but the converse is true too.

-also people hold the insights or things brought to light by stories revolving around conflict in high esteem, getting those books more praise, because it resonates with something the reader feels very strongly about, and you're usually gonna feel strongly about stuff that is attached with strong emotions like conflict usually is. Lots more people know sadness, anger, + other negative emotions more than they know love or positive emotions, or at least think they do. Por exampleh, When you have a normal, good day, but at the end of it you run out of toilet paper when you're wiping, you remember that conflict much more than the countless moments of no conflict that envelope it. Negative stuff is often what people use to define themselves. we start off more happy than not as far back as you can remember (youngest years), so happy is 'normal', unhappy, or conflict, is the less frequent one, and therefore more intriguing. something like that.




Much more research has been done on chimpanzees than bonobos (chimpanzee is accepted by spell check, bonobo has a red line under it), because they're louder, some conflict is always going on, while bonobos have like no conflict and chill.

 

[Duxwing]

Dux, why don't you write one? Post it here and I'll judge. How's that for proof? You're basically asking people that 1=0 yet you don't show your own proof.

I'm asking for proof of the assertion. Nevertheless, my conflict-free story: some School of Combat: The Second Team written ad-hoc.

The waves crashed and roared beneath the quiet, dusky bluffs whereupon Andy, Barry and Daniela sit. The warm summer wind blows through their clothes, and the setting sun shines on Barry's dark scalp. Andy reclines

just an easy, or just obvious, method to make interesting story, it's not a requirement, not a "must". Oh, proof. Uhh.

Oh. I thought it was some such ancient theorem as 2+2=4.

Sheila is in the Congolese jungle. She has no reason to be there other than her fleeting interest in a species of monkey called bonobos, also known as pan paniscus. Ever since she won the lottery, she has had -zero- conflict in her life. Sheila saunters around the Congo as if it were her living room. Even though she won the lottery, she didn't buy any new clothes. In fact, she's not currently wearing any. She's stark naked, wandering around the Congo, looking for monkeys, because she wants to. Shelia simply doesn't give a ****.

I like that story: it was funny!

-Maybe anyone can see a conflict in anything, but the converse is true too.

-also people hold the insights or things brought to light by stories revolving around conflict in high esteem, getting those books more praise, because it resonates with something the reader feels very strongly about, and you're usually gonna feel strongly about stuff that is attached with strong emotions like conflict usually is. Lots more people know sadness, anger, + other negative emotions more than they know love or positive emotions, or at least think they do. Por exampleh, When you have a normal, good day, but at the end of it you run out of toilet paper when you're wiping, you remember that conflict much more than the countless moments of no conflict that envelope it. Negative stuff is often what people use to define themselves. we start off more happy than not as far back as you can remember (youngest years), so happy is 'normal', unhappy, or conflict, is the less frequent one, and therefore more intriguing. something like that.

Rant

Spoiler

I just feel pain... pain... and more pain. When I first encountered stories with conflict, I felt something in myself twist, bend, and break, and I felt I had to read about suffering to seem reasonably tough. I think I always liked happy stories and never wanted to leave that happy, beautiful world into darkness and strangeness.

I cannot sympathize with characters in conflict-ridden stories lest their emotions should overwhelm me; whereas in stories lacking conflict I can. After so much pain, any good moment I see in stories just leaves me anxious and even more detached than regular conflict scenes because throughout the former I worry about the latter's unexpected arrival.

Worse, I have begun detaching from all literature because my present literary education has also left me worried that all art contains themes, motifs, symbols, and coded messages that will hijack my brain unless I find, analyze, and write papers about them. Worst, I never entirely enjoyed the fictional enterprise, always wondering why I should pretend.

I feel like something inside me has been trampled, beaten, and broken and is rising. I don't want dark and strange stories. I don't want allusions, metaphor, similie, or other logic-breaking things. Maybe I just don't want stories, which seem to be exercises in pain and madness foisted unto me by social forces.

And this want extends to the real world. I sometimes, feeling duty-bound, let my friends tell me about experiences so horrible I want to hear not of them. I feel like my feelings are being trampled and bent and broken when they talk about it. No! No! Stop! I think, and they just keep going! Or worse, I force it from them because I feel like they must tell someone of it. Yes, person, tell me more! Tell me how your mother fed your screaming father through a wood-chipper! Tell me how it got stuck on her fat! I'm such a great friend I'll listen with the correct! facial! expression!

Maybe I'm just narcissistic, caring only for myself and denying whatever I dislike. Or maybe I'm sick and tired of fiction's only getting worse for me. It was perfect at the beginning! They shouldn't have changed it! I want my blankie and bedtime stories--no weird rape trauma and heroin overdoses. And if you think that not reading all the horror is cowardly, then consider the following story:

Johnny revved-up his Ultra Hyper Super Killtacular Death Mower 5000 and sauntered down to the geriatrics home with a grin and a spring in his step. The old people screamed and ran, fat, saggy butts swinging under their coats. But Johnny was too quick! He slammed his spinning blades on...

And the following Critical Reviews:

1. Johnny's Deathmower obviously represents the inherently repressed sexual desires in Man, represented by the obviously menstrual blood and long, hard blades and references to "butts".
2. From a Marxist perspective, Johnny represents the bourgeoisie at its worst, literally mowing down the proletariat, whom the geriatrics represent.
3. Etc.

And don't get me started on the fiction we read. School shooting? Check. Child rape? Bah, we have children murder other children--over pride! Hitler? Plenty. Totalitarianism? Taken to its logical extreme over and over again! And the style, oh good grief INFJs wrote all of it without first having learned how to read because every frikking story is the same: quiet, feely person watches horrifying events unfold and sometimes participates, usually losing. And I haven't even started on what we read in High School.

---

@Absurdity

What constitutes proof? What would a story without conflict look like?

I cannot answer your first question because I have never seen anyone assert to have proof, which, for example, might be neuropsychological. A story without conflict is what we read before the adults told us we should read grown-up stories; e.g.,

Billy ate Boston Cream Pie. It was delicious. The cake was moist and soft, the filling sweet and creamy, and the chocolate rich and gooey. Billy chewed and chewed, smiling at his table.

Don't detach from the story like I presume everyone does for emotional safety: this story really is just happy, and you can just enjoy it without worrying that you're lazy or cowardly. Let go and feel!

Furthermore, whoever believes that stories must have conflict must, unless mad, believe they know what conflict is and why stories must have it. So many people thus believe that I asked here, where people seem to want

-Duxwing

 

[ApostateAbe]

I think it is a good question. If you say, "a story without conflict is boring," then you must answer, "Why is conflict interesting?" I think I have an answer. Attention to conflict is instinctive.

Humans are authoritarian. That means there is someone (typically one) person who has the most power, and he has a hierarchy of underlings below him. At times, one or more of those underlings will try to claim that seat of power. If you are in power, then you have rights to all the women, and, the longer you maintain power, the more you reproduce. It is vitally important for your genes that you be attentive to conflict and potential conflict, so you can maintain such power.

It is likewise in the interest of underlings to pay attention to conflict. It is a matter of life and death. If you take the wrong side, then you may die!

Stories are imaginings of events that stimulate such instincts, so the stories stimulate such instincts by extension.

 

[Pyropyro]

I'm asking for proof of the assertion. Nevertheless, my conflict-free story: some School of Combat: The Second Team written ad-hoc.

That's kind of goes over my head. For example, if the Wright brothers simply asked the world why are there no heavier than air aircraft? People would simply tell them they're mad. The right way to do this is to prove them wrong by making the aircraft. If everyone just looked for proof of assertions then we'll still be in the Dung Ages right now.

The waves crashed and roared beneath the quiet, dusky bluffs whereupon Andy, Barry and Daniela sit. The warm summer wind blows through their clothes, and the setting sun shines on Barry's dark scalp. Andy reclines

That's a good setup for a background/hook but not a story. What's next Dux?

 

[Pyropyro]

Spoiler

He lifted up the paper. "What an interesting day," he said to her. "The weather is supposed to be nice, Netflix prices are rising but no one is upset about it because it is good quality programming, they have canceled football this year and made it exercise class instead (to positive acclaim), and there is a supermart opening on Bieneventos Avenue."

"That's lovely, dear," she said, flipping his breakfast onto a plate for him -- the savory smell of bacon and eggs wafting through the kitchen. There was a click as the toast finished and sprang up in the toaster, perfectly browned. There was even real butter on the table.

"hi Mom, hi Dad!" said Susie, walking through the kitchen and grabbing a Pop Tart out of the box -- just her fair share, nothing more, nothing less. They used to argue about her eating too many Pop Tarts, but since she ate a healthy lunch of vegetables and yogurt, they were fine with her choosing her own breakfast.

"I gotta go, I don't want to miss the bus." She was always up on time and never missed the bus. She was utterly responsible and perfectly competent at fulfilling parental expectation. She gave her mother a big hug and kissed her father before walking out the door in her entirely tasteful top and pair of perfectly pressed purple pants.

"She's a wonderful girl, isn't she?" he said, folding the paper back to read page three.

"Hmmm?" his wife replied.

"She's wonderful," he repeated. She paused a moment. "Oh. Oh, yes, Stanley, she is," she said while scrubbing at something in the sink. "Just like her father."

"And just like her mother," Stanley Horofutz said, staring at his wife's back.

But now he wondered why she had paused.

... my question for you is, when did the story become interesting?

You had me at the second paragraph. This is an interesting beginning. I want to hear the rest of the story.

 

[Jennywocky]

That's a good setup for a background/hook but not a story. What's next Dux?

That's the issue. It's just a collection of details, with no connecting thread among any of them. Without a plot, they're just description. You might as well look at a static photograph.

 

[Pyropyro]

I'll try to finish Dux's story if they don't mind

The waves crashed and roared beneath the quiet, dusky bluffs whereupon Andy, Barry and Daniela sit. The warm summer wind blows through their clothes, and the setting sun shines on Barry's dark scalp. Andy reclines

and reaches for Daniela's hand. Daniela sensed his touch. She looked into his smiling face with a puzzled look at first but her features softened as the waves continued to lash at the sandy beach.

Barry stood up and excused himself from the two as he was craving for some ice cream. As he walked away, Barry wondered why that even in this clear and lovely summer evening salty raindrops seem to trickle down his sun-burnt cheeks.

 

[Duxwing]

I'll try to finish Dux's story if they don't mind

and reaches for Daniela's hand. Daniela sensed his touch. She looked into his smiling face with a puzzled look at first but her features softened as the waves continued to lash at the sandy beach.

Barry stood up and excused himself from the two as he was craving for some ice cream. As he walked away, Barry wondered why that even in this clear and lovely summer evening salty raindrops seem to trickle down his sun-burnt cheeks.

Oh my gosh, you wrote a ship-fic! Write on: it makes me melt!

If you want a conflict-free story, then you would generally not want School of Combat, which would thus follow from where I left off:

Spoiler

Andy yawns, "Barry, Daniela, is the helicopter ready?"

Daniela yawns, too, "I not know. Ask Barry. He inspect every day."

Andy turns to the great, dark doctor, "Barry, how is the old bird?"

Barry answers, staring at distant rocks, "She seems to have a nest and some eggs. And there's the dad," he nods sideways.

Andy rolls his eyes and grunts, "Helicopters don't lay eggs, idiot!"

Barry answers, stare unbroken "I was talking about the seagull."

Daniela laughs, her blond locks flowing in the breeze, "I see that vahn come a while off! Always am right!"

Andy glares at both of them, "Be quiet!"

"Now now, guys, let's not fight," warmly calls Sloan, who ambles toward them across the drifting grasses with a tall, stainless-steel pitcher wherefrom dangled cups.

Six glaring eyeballs turns to her at once, burning with annoyance.

"I promise I won't 'hose the drink of madness down your throats,' or whatever Noah calls it," she answers, smiling at them and sitting beside Andy, to whom she whispers, "It's alright. You can be wrong sometimes and still be a good leader."

Andy turns to her with a look of disgust. Sloan stares at him, shaking her head, arms crossed, right pointer finger tapping her left bicep. Andy grunts, turns, and sighs, "Barry, I'm sorry for calling you an idiot."

Barry laughed and answered, "It's alright. We all know who the idiot is around here."

"Barry..." Sloan nodded, a look of disapproval on her face.

"I ain't sayin' who," he grinned, staring at the distant gulls.

Essentially:
-Andy leads (ENTJ) - No Andy, no mission. Action Guy, The Leader, and Commander Cool
-Barry heals (ISTJ) - No Barry, no logistics. Action Guy, Combat Medic, and Sargent Rock
-Noah thinks (INTP) - No Noah, no logic. - Action Guy, Absent-Minded Professor, Smart Guy
-Daniela invents (INTJ) - No Daniela, no gear. - Action Girl, Wrench Wench, Team Benefactor
-Sloan civilizes (INFJ) - No Sloan, no harmony. - Action Girl, Team Mom, and Cloud Cuckoolander

Some of my favorite scenes are comedies of manners wherein Ne and Te take cheap shots while Fe checks them.

-Duxwing

 

[EditorOne]

"Conflict is a pretty broad concept."

That.
It can include "change" and doesn't have to involve other people, just to add one more little thing.

Conflict is ubiquitous to human nature, therefore it is a natural, common focus of interest, a magnet for our attention. Managing conflict of various types is what we spend all our time doing, is it not? Right down to filling basic human needs like eating? All the way up to and beyond dealing with our own shortcomings as INTP?

A creative writing course might help pin all this down. You'll never again read a story without examining the writer's mechanics, of course, but you'll get insight.

 

[BigApplePi]

@Duxwing. No one else must dare to read this.

Why must stories have conflict? I seek proof--even of the rote response "to be interesting"--that no story lacking conflict can interest anyone.

Rather than define proof, define "conflict." Any story written by a human ... and they all are, with a reader will have conflict. This is because the story presented to the reader will say something to the reader who is alive. Life means conflict because we don't just exist, we sooner or later enter a state of stress which must be relieved.

I seek proof because each year I have attended school I have been assigned only stories more horrible than the ones I had been assigned the previous year--except the first year because no year preceded it--and the teacher assigning them has always praised them more than the previous teacher praised the previous stories, leading me to two dubious and mutually-exclusive conclusions:

So you have been assigned horror stories? They aren't horrible enuf to induce conflict? Tsk. Tsk.

• The propostion whose proof I seek. If this conclusion is true, then I have blundered and my understanding of my previous reasoning and therefore my self-understanding is fundamentally flawed.

  You have accidently stumbled upon the truth. That deserves some praise. Now if only I could phrase some praise.

Some stories lacking conflict can interest someone.
If it is true, then everyone who has claimed otherwise has erred and my childish intellect bested them; furthermore, my understanding of human value-judgment would be fundamentally flawed and the academic praise of each story could boundlessly increase with the horror of the story unto hysterical exultation.

So you HAVE found stories without conflict. That is very stressful to me.

 

[Brontosaurie]

conflict is perhaps needed to propel storytelling, as some kind of framework, but it's seldom what keeps me interested. i'm more into the overall style of delivery and latent speculative content, which of course may boil down to some kind of metaphysical polarity, resembling conflict at another level of abstraction, nevertheless being incomparable with the surface dramaturgical conflict. thus i've toyed with the idea of a "pure" literature which doesn't need a conflict resolution framework to create the tension necessary to maintain the author's routine and the audience's interest. maybe this also means abandoning narrative altogether.

seems like it would be about entertaining a subconscious flow that zooms out from intricacies to overarching structure. or the other way. or neither. or sideways.

now i'm too lazy and dumb to write anyway.

 

[Base groove]

seems like it would be about entertaining a subconscious flow that zooms out from intricacies to overarching structure.

If the argument were to be made that conflict is so integral to a story that there is no story without conflict, couldn't that be identified as overarching structure?

 

[Hawkeye]

It depends how the word conflict is being used.

If conflict is being used to represent some form of violence, or war then no... a story does not require conflict.

On-the-other-hand, if you are using conflict to mean contrast, you'd be hard pushed to find an interesting story without conflict.




There is a reason opposites attract is an idiom. Some people argue that the idiom birds of a feather flock together contradicts it, but it doesn't.

 

[Jennywocky]

I agree that "wars or violence" is unnecessary for a story. However, typically stories revolve around someone desiring something that they don't yet have; this is a "conflict," and the person must move past obstacles in order to reach the goal.

This is how we even live our daily lives; we have goals and then the day's events revolve around our working towards the goals. when such a day is uneventful, we don't even care to talk much about it, ironically; we spend more time naturally talking about day's events that posed more difficulty.

Stories reflect this reality.

You had me at the second paragraph. This is an interesting beginning. I want to hear the rest of the story.

That was the wrong answer, lol!!!

Was it interesting because it wasn't realistic, so you were trying to figure out where I was going with it, or....?

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Stories don't have to have conflict; however, they are boring as fuck.

They are about as interesting as "I've just had a lovely cooked breakfast this morning, like I always have every morning ".

This is fucking interesting as fuck.

I want to know the details. Why, when (time setting, not event time), it has to make sense in the end.

 

[TimeAsylums]

cells...viruses...bacteria...all in the struggle to survive and/or dominate

tis the story of life m8

 

[Base groove]

Today I went to the park and had a nice day.

Is that a story?
Is there conflict?

 

[Pyropyro]

I agree that "wars or violence" is unnecessary for a story. However, typically stories revolve around someone desiring something that they don't yet have; this is a "conflict," and the person must move past obstacles in order to reach the goal.

This is how we even live our daily lives; we have goals and then the day's events revolve around our working towards the goals. when such a day is uneventful, we don't even care to talk much about it, ironically; we spend more time naturally talking about day's events that posed more difficulty.

Stories reflect this reality.



That was the wrong answer, lol!!!

Was it interesting because it wasn't realistic, so you were trying to figure out where I was going with it, or....?

I was wondering what was their substitute to butter before

 

[Duxwing]

To return the discussion to its course:

What is conflict, and has anyone ever proved that stories must contain it?

I want not a long-winded article that first assumes stories must and thereafter expatiates the assumption but some proof using first principles, clear definitions, and, where necessary, data.

-Duxwing

 

[Hawkeye]

To return the discussion to its course:

What is conflict, and has anyone ever proved that stories must contain it?

I want not a long-winded article that first assumes stories must and thereafter expatiates the assumption but some proof using first principles, clear definitions, and, where necessary, data.

-Duxwing

It is down to you to display your definition of conflict so that others can validate your question. Conflict has many meanings.

So, what do you mean by conflict?

 

[Jennywocky]

^^ What Hawkeye said (which has been raised multiple times already).

 

[Duxwing]

@Jennywocky and Hawkeye

I feel frustrated because you seem to misunderstand what I am saying. When I requested a definition of conflict, you requested one, seemingly unaware that anyone requesting a definition necessarily lacks it. And when I requested proof of conflict's narrative necessity, you requested disproof thereof, seemingly assuming the proposition whose proof I sought.

I know not what conflict is, and whatever it is, I know not whether stories must have it; instead, I have seen many sources baldly claim that stories must have some undefined thing called "conflict". I am not debating but ignorant, confused, and seeking help. Please therefore read the post Hawkeye quoted again and answer my questions, and if you cannot, then please so tell me why that I can know who can.

-Duxwing

 

[Hawkeye]

@Jennywocky and Hawkeye

I feel frustrated because you seem to misunderstand what I am saying. When I requested a definition of conflict, you requested one, seemingly unaware that anyone requesting a definition necessarily lacks it. And when I requested proof of conflict's narrative necessity, you requested disproof thereof, seemingly assuming the proposition whose proof I sought.

I know not what conflict is, and whatever it is, I know not whether stories must have it; instead, I have seen many sources baldly claim that stories must have some undefined thing called "conflict". I am not debating but ignorant, confused, and seeking help. Please therefore read the post Hawkeye quoted again and answer my questions, and if you cannot, then please so tell me why that I can know who can.

-Duxwing

Look at the title of this thread and hopefully you will see the derp you have made.
hint:

Spoiler

How can you ask a question regarding the necessity of conflict if you do not know what the word means?

Also, I (and others) gave brief definitions of conflict which you seem to have glanced over.

 

[Cherry Cola]

A conflict is there because something is wrong from someones perspective. When something is wrong it needs to be righted and so action follows. It is enough that something is wrong in order to tell a story, a conflict is just one example of something being wrong. The point is that there needs to be something which needs to be done in a story, else nothing would happen; there would be no beginning or end because between them nothing would happen and so they would be one dot and not two separated by a line.

 

[Duxwing]

Look at the title of this thread and hopefully you will see the derp you have made.

Yeah. I know now. >_<

Also, I (and others) gave brief definitions of conflict which you seem to have glanced over.

The assertion "Stories must have conflict" has been so forcefully asserted to me that I began wondering whether some grand committee decided that they must.

@Cherry What about such purely pleasant actions as cuddling?

-Duxwing

 

[Cherry Cola]

@Cherry What about such purely pleasant actions as cuddling?

-Duxwing

There what is wrong is that the cuddling has not taken place, or has not been fulfilled. Or the cuddling fulfills some purpose in a greater scheme. Who knows, but if everything was just right there would be no need to cuddle.

 

[Duxwing]

There what is wrong is that the cuddling has not taken place, or has not been fulfilled. Or the cuddling fulfills some purpose in a greater scheme. Who knows, but if everything was just right there would be no need to cuddle.

What if the potential reward of cuddling is infinite?

-Duxwing

 

[Pyropyro]

I thought we're on the same page. Hmm... Dux, would the Wikipedia article be a good enough working definition for conflict?

We cannot have and ending to this tale if we can't establish the conflict

 

[Duxwing]

I thought we're on the same page. Hmm... Dux, would the Wikipedia article be a good enough working definition for conflict?

Are we agreed that no academic consensus supports the literary necessity of conflict?

We cannot have and ending to this tale if we can't establish the conflict

The scene needs no conflict because it can be entirely enjoyable; e.g., depicting the aforementioned cuddling.

-Duxwing

 

[Pyropyro]

Are we agreed that no academic consensus supports the literary necessity of conflict.

Ah no, we can't even decide what conflict is so we can't get to that agreement in the first place. For all we know we could define conflict as a hamburger.

The scene needs no conflict because it can be entirely enjoyable; e.g., depicting the aforementioned cuddling.

-Duxwing

But we're already in conflict: We don't know the meaning of conflict (man against man). Oh when, by Jove, can we end this ordeal?

Even cuddling can be a conflict. What if you cuddle person A but there's a person B in the background that hesitates to cuddle you or person A? What if person A doesn't want to cuddle?

 

[BigApplePi]

@Duxwing.

Why must stories have conflict? I seek proof--even of the rote response "to be interesting"--that no story lacking conflict can interest anyone.

I propose that ALL stories have conflict. Conflict = the reader or the story itself contain two different directions. This means such directions tear at each other, be they internal to the story or external within the reader.

For example,

1. Cuddling will arouse in the reader potential suffering as reading about cuddling the reader knows it must transit into non-cuddling or else the reader knows he has past experienced painful non-cuddling. Same with a nice day in the park. My day may not have been so nice. What made it nice in the story tells a story.

2. A story about gruesome fighting between warring generations of parties has conflict but the reader may not identify. Then the story is a poor one as the only conflict the reader experiences is one of boredom.

This had me thinking defining conflict within a story is no good by itself. One must tell a story in such a manner that it arouses conflict within the reader. Conflict within the mind of the writer is inadequate. One cannot objectify conflict. Conflict is within you.

 

[Jennywocky]

Why must all threads have conflict?




... if no one had argued, this thread would be about three posts long by now.

 

[BigApplePi]

All we do is argue. This conflict is driving me nuts. Can't we have a little peace?

 

[Pyropyro]

All we do is argue. This conflict is driving me nuts. Can't we have a little peace?

Well if I want to get peace then I'll just turn the computer off and have a relaxing walk outside.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

Because humans love problem-solving,
even more so they love the problem being solved by someone or something else,
e.g. a deus ex machina.

 

[Duxwing]

Ah no, we can't even decide what conflict is so we can't get to that agreement in the first place. For all we know we could define conflict as a hamburger.

I'm not talking about agreement among us but about whether academics have defined "conflict" and demonstrated its narrative necessity and, if they have, where I can find their definition and demonstration.

But we're already in conflict: We don't know the meaning of conflict (man against man). Oh when, by Jove, can we end this ordeal?

Your repeatedly demanding that I define conflict confuses me because I have equally-repeatedly told you I lack and therefore seek one: would you please stop demanding a definition I cannot provide?

Even cuddling can be a conflict. What if you cuddle person A but there's a person B in the background that hesitates to cuddle you or person A? What if person A doesn't want to cuddle?

Cuddling is not necessarily conflict.

-Duxwing

 

[Pyropyro]

I'm not talking about agreement among us but about whether academics have defined "conflict" and demonstrated its narrative necessity and, if they have, where I can find their definition and demonstration.

This is much like art, there's no set definition. Had we been talking about a scientific term then I could simply tell you it's definition right here right now. I remembered spending one college source discussing the question "What is art?" and we still can't agree until now.

As for necessity I think we should look how it was been used since time immemorial. According to that wiki article that I cited, the earliest storytellers like the Greek already use agon as an integral part of a story and the conflict that they entail. The only way for you to disprove history is to make your own conflict-less story.

Your repeatedly demanding that I define conflict confuses me because I have equally-repeatedly told you I lack and therefore seek one: would you please stop demanding a definition I cannot provide?

I was being dramatic but oh well. If you want to do that then we really can't provide closure to your query. That's the cost of not asking for your definition.

Cuddling is not necessarily conflict.

-Duxwing

Well I could argue that war isn't conflict as well since it's just a term if separated from other story elements.