Becoming a Commander, not the archetype but the function

[Rebis]

Currently dating an ENTJ, I've becoming more assertive with my perspectives and people are complying. In the past I was the one who created the nexus between disparate personalities who I liked and they've all been friends for multiple years, irrespective of their different personalities and interests. Has anyone adapted a commanding personality, not by virtue of wanting to command, but more so an absence of a natural and effective leader in a group?

I've been class representative again and again, as a product of me stepping up for the role in the absence of what I identify as an effective person for the task.

 

[Cognisant]

I'm not a leader, I'm independent and bull-headed so I tend to just do what I think needs doing, for example if I'm with a group of people and the group is lost but I know the way rather than trying to convince everyone to listen to me I just start going and let my willingness to leave them behind speak for itself.

The friend I hang out with most irl is the charismatic leader type, a couple of months ago he talked me into climbing a mountain with him (small mountain, this is Australia after all) which was awful and dangerous and I swore at him the entire way up and back down, but he still got me to follow him.

Next month I'm going to Japan with him for no other reason than he talked me into it, see we have this dynamic where he gets us into trouble and I get us out of it and oddly I appreciate it because otherwise I'd never have such experiences.

 

[Kormak]

Next month I'm going to Japan with him for no other reason than he talked me into it, see we have this dynamic where he gets us into trouble and I get us out of it and oddly I appreciate it because otherwise I'd never have such experiences.

<.< damn, I'm jelly you got adopted by an extrovert.

On topic.

I can be assertive, mostly if angry or I need to get personal shit done... e_e and have led groups of ppl... but it happened because I'm not a good follower, tend to be stubborn and skirt rules / I do what I want anyway & there was nobody better / plus ppl usually like me for some reason, so I accepted.

Leadership style is more along the lines of set the goal, give direction and allow ppl free rein to accomplish by the deadline any way they wish.

I'm not good at being commanding, suck balls at administration and due to inferior Fe I hate conflict & lack of harmony / its unnatural for me to step on ppl's toes. When I upset ppl :P it's usually unintentional. I need to really be pissed to behave like my ESTJ boss, she can be commanding and an abrasive tactless bitch who cries every week cus she failed yet another relationship..^^ (I hate that woman) ... I have never met anyone less self-aware lmao.

Idk I have always aspired to be independent. I hate the very fact that I depend on my employer for income and seek to multiply income sources to avoid it, because I hate being controlled or told what I can and can't do. Being a commander was never important, being free to follow my whims is.

 

[Rebis]

I was initially adopted by extraverts, but I have a "legacy" if you will of when I became incredibly extraverted when I had a period of drinking at the time, so I still hold those remnants when people see me at a club, I think that gives me the property of a pseudo commanding position in the social hierarchy.

I always go my own way, If I want to go somewhere I will, trying to convince others to follow me withdraws from my ability to act independently. Freedom is found with the individual not the group.

 

[Rebis]

The friend I hang out with most irl is the charismatic leader type, a couple of months ago he talked me into climbing a mountain with him (small mountain, this is Australia after all) which was awful and dangerous and I swore at him the entire way up and back down, but he still got me to follow him.

Next month I'm going to Japan with him for no other reason than he talked me into it, see we have this dynamic where he gets us into trouble and I get us out of it and oddly I appreciate it because otherwise I'd never have such experiences.

Like the duality of nature, you learn from your opposite. I think extraverts often get attached to introverts because they're usually energised by large groups of people, which requires attention directed towards them and what's rarer than an introvert attention? It is usually one at a time.

I'm sure you thought about that, but I'm just confirming your thought from another place in the world.

 

[Polaris]

I don't know why but I seem to thrive the most when everyone else is stressed to the max. I have never understood the point of becoming stressed about stupid insignificant shit and when I'm calm the client is calm so I joke around and behave like a clown and everyone's suddenly happy. My managers have all expressed how much they appreciate working with me because I just get my job done, avoid chatting to other staff, stay calm and therefore have a calming effect on others when shit hits the fan (which it does quite often because the place I work is stupidly disorganised/mismanaged). But I dislike any kind of responsibility, and would rather "work behind the scenes". Of course, if I was able to somehow take charge I know exactly how I would optimise efficiency at work - it's quite simple, but everyone just assumes they know better so who is going to ask a quiet mouse like me?

I have been in many situations where I've had to get us/people out of a shitty situation because everyone else flipped out. I think having been faced with several near-death/traumatic experiences has put everything else into perspective. There's another person at my work who lost everything in one of Australia's worst bushfires and they are similarly inclined - I never see them getting stressed about anything.

So I think perspective is important, and if we are to talk about it in cognitive/typology terms (which I tend to avoid unless there's some obvious pattern), then perhaps Ne/Ni and global thinking is somehow correlated, but of course, these don't operate in a vacuum which is why I would rather avoid going down that rabbit hole. Dichotomies irk me as much as they are useful for systemising because people tend to go all baah-baah (probably an insult to sheep) about dichotomies. It also really depends on what the context is. Any situation that would demand some sort of emotional supportive role is a definite weak point for me. I can be supportive in pragmatic ways, but I find nurturing doesn't come naturally to me, and the harder I try, the worse it comes off. So I leave that to other people.

 

[Kormak]

I explain here, why this should theoretically be impossible for INTP:

PoLR and why you might be INTJ

e_e where do I start? I saw this terrible thread here where ppl were refering to Fe as PoLR.. which has annoyed me deeply.. Disclaimer: I have looked into both typology systems for over a decade, analized both systems, so I know my shit and won't accept any criticism on this matter, just so we...

www.intpforum.com

The type is fundamentally incapable of being like this from internal resource pov. and responds negatively to it coming from the outside as well.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

From what I have seen, the de facto leaders (as opposed to nominal leaders) are those who have the clearest vision, who have the competence in the given circumstances to tell what the exact next steps are, and who voice their opinion and clearly justify the opinions with facts. “Charisma”, sociability and extroversion is all just fluff that only works when nothing real is at stake.

 

[Kormak]

From what I have seen, the de facto leaders (as opposed to nominal leaders) are those who have the clearest vision, who have the competence in the given circumstances to tell what the exact next steps are, and who voice their opinion and clearly justify the opinions with facts. “Charisma”, sociability and extroversion is all just fluff that only works when nothing real is at stake.

Too bad we suck at both. Clear vision, hard to come by with Ne-Ti.

...................................................habe u seen a alien pls

 

[ZenRaiden]

Sure INTPs can lead. There are simply better people at being the captains of the ship.

That being said INTPs seem they can learn and thus if they are put into situation where they have to do something they probably will figure out how to do it. Its just that they wont be naturally good at it from the start.

Leadership is kind of position where you have to make decisions. Lot of decisions and snap judgments. You will be forced into situations where you might have to think on your feet, lie, be confident even if there is no reason to be confident, have charisma, manipulate people so they get along even if they dont want to. Learn to understand hierarchy and how to not offend people who are on your side. Learn to read peoples intentions. Figure out how to deal with people who disagree with you and figure out how to get them on your side. Know when people are lying to you etc..............

But leadership positions are many and differ depending on what number of people you are working with. Depending on what type of hierarchy and work enviroment is there. What reasources you have as leader, and how well you understand the work you are doing. Its also important depending on what consequences there are for bad decisions and how the work load is spread over the group.

There are variables and I dont see a problem with INTPs stepping up to leadership. I just think the typical high stakes leadership roles are difficult for INTPs.

 

[Tenacity]

Currently dating an ENTJ, I've becoming more assertive with my perspectives and people are complying. In the past I was the one who created the nexus between disparate personalities who I liked and they've all been friends for multiple years, irrespective of their different personalities and interests. Has anyone adapted a commanding personality, not by virtue of wanting to command, but more so an absence of a natural and effective leader in a group?

I've been class representative again and again, as a product of me stepping up for the role in the absence of what I identify as an effective person for the task.

I'm INTP and tend to be surrounded by ENTJs in phases of my life, have often have become their confidante. Also used to be a student rep when I was in college - I didn't really enjoy it entirely because I didn't get to pick my "team", but I still did a good job and was re-elected. In essence, I made the school look good, but I was simply caring about advancing the goals I really believed in.

So, yes, I have adapted this personality in times of need. I find INTP leadership to be natural if you can create a balance and your circumstances enable you to have time to yourself, else you are subject to not letting your own ideas be truly heard. Yet, it is fulfilling when your ideas are truly heard and you get the moment of applause after things like presentations or at the end of the day can acknowledge to yourself that you had impact and influence. And, it becomes empowering to realize that you do in fact have perspectives people appreciate and find refreshing.

 

[Rebis]

Very Succint Tenacity. I think people adapt to the environment they are apart of but personality is more a core tenant of who they are: if your job is to care for others, you will probably become more empathetic, but if you left that job you would probably revert to your core self.

Working in fast food I certainly became really fast with processing orders, I became obsessed with time. It was a maladaptation though, because I denied my usual thought process of thinking about everything prior to action, and just wrapping burgers and serving orders mindlessly. I took a few months out over the summer and it's back to natural, contemplative self but the obsession with time has stuck by.

 

[Tenacity]

Very Succint Tenacity. I think people adapt to the environment they are apart of but personality is more a core tenant of who they are: if your job is to care for others, you will probably become more empathetic, but if you left that job you would probably revert to your core self.

Working in fast food I certainly became really fast with processing orders, I became obsessed with time. It was a maladaptation though, because I denied my usual thought process of thinking about everything prior to action, and just wrapping burgers and serving orders mindlessly. I took a few months out over the summer and it's back to natural, contemplative self but the obsession with time has stuck by.

Thanks. Exactly. I think it is important not to get too caught up in MBTI or archetypes - the bias can be crippling. Leaders adapt and serve those around them - It doesn't matter what your type is. It matters how strongly you have that desire.

I view your "maladaption" as a strength. If we are talking about INTP leadership, it is beneficial to have those moments in your memory wheelhouse where you have done things that were time sensitive, and now it seems you're adapting to a more preferable type of function that is more mentally stimulating. It is much better that you had done that than nothing at all. Time is important - Don't lose the habit of time sensitivity if you have it. As you know, it becomes far more important when you need to constantly engage with people.

 

[Rebis]

Thanks. Exactly. I think it is important not to get too caught up in MBTI or archetypes - the bias can be crippling. Leaders adapt and serve those around them - It doesn't matter what your type is. It matters how strongly you have that desire.

I view your "maladaption" as a strength. If we are talking about INTP leadership, it is beneficial to have those moments in your memory wheelhouse where you have done things that were time sensitive, and now it seems you're adapting to a more preferable type of function that is more mentally stimulating. It is much better that you had done that than nothing at all. Time is important - Don't lose the habit of time sensitivity if you have it. As you know, it becomes far more important when you need to constantly engage with people.

Love reacted this.