• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • See https://www.intpforum.com/threads/upgrade-at-10-am-gmt.27631/

ADD vs. INTP

Curlijessi

Redshirt
Local time
Today, 07:34
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
11
I was diagnosed with ADHD (mostly by myself. Im a physician assistant). But I also was tested and found to have mild ADD. But I got through high school, undergrad, and Medical school I guess by adapting or intelligence or both. I only qent to a psychiatrist after having difficulty with my first job as a PA because I couldnt remeber the details of what patients were saying and I would get overwhelmed and was inefficient in seeing patients. I ended up getting fired from my first job because i couldnt meet the eficiency requirements that they wanted. In retrospect I think that was pretty harsh because I had a major injury and was on crutches the whole time i worked there plus I was pumping (i was breastfeeding at the time).
I started medication around that time and was able to meet and exceed the patient quota towards the end but they still fired me. I was only there 3 months.
My second job, similar situation except I still work here 4 years later. I have been counceled several times for beong too "slow" with seeing patients (their standards are pretty high, I work on urgent care).
But more recenly, I stopped taking my medication because Im working on healing some other health issues and it hasnt made a major difference on my work efficiency.
Im starting to think either my mild ADD has proved or I never had ADD.
Most of my symptoms can also be explained by my personality tyoe and how I process information. For example, I used to lose things ALL the time. Like keys or my phone or useful items. Most of the time the object was either right in front of me or in an obscure location.
I cant remeber the details of what patients say because they dont matter. I can see the patterns of diesase and am very accurate on diagnosis. But i forget the details as soon as they were done woth the story.
This has to do with how the Ne works. Or so I have come to understand.
So now I just write down the details of what they say so I can use them when I dictate the note. I cant do a note without that.
Anyone else forget what people said but remember what they were taling about? Also if someone is boring, or takes forever to get to the point, I remember nothing of what they said.
Anyone else lose things like I do? Or forgetful? Im starting to think it is all just INTP traits. Im much like the "absent minded professor" who is forgetful about the daily practical things because their head is full of thoughts. This is why I thought I had ADD. But Im no longer sure.
 

Hadoblado

think again losers
Local time
Today, 21:04
Joined
Mar 17, 2011
Messages
5,461
Don't fall into the trap of explaining away a diagnosis with MBTI. Diagnoses are far from a perfect science, but MBTI isn't at all a science and will leave you without answers for the rest of your days.

I share all the same attributes you do, being unable to process unengaging information. But if it's for your job, a normal person should be able to get to the point where they're able to do it because it is important even if it doesn't feel like it.

My advice is, if you're going to keep believing in MBTI, hold it as a separate explanation that is not mutually exclusive. Problems come when people start replacing other explanations with personality jargon. Stay flexible.
 

CatGoddess

Active Member
Local time
Today, 06:34
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
301

To provide something of a summary: yes, there are commonalities between ADD and typical xNxP behavior. This might lead to misdiagnosis (or mistyping, in fact). The line between personality difference and personality disorder can be somewhat thin, but it's generally agreed that it can be drawn where it significantly hampers the person in question's life.

In other words, if you can individually solve or deal with your ADD/INTP related scatterbrained-ness to the point that you are happy with your own functioning in that aspect, then, sure, it's just a personality divergence. But, if you can't succeed in resolving your issues in that realm, don't turn your back on professional help (medication, for instance) because you're convinced it's just MBTI type.
 

HDINTP

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today, 13:34
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
571
Location
In my own world
Obviously I do not know you but from what you said I would say you don't. I also have all these "symptoms". Psychologist once wrote in my report that I "see complexity in simple things" and I would add "sees simplicity in complex systems". I also remember reading article somewehre that said people like this have difficulties of that kind because their brains are "wired" for complexity. For me in practice that means if I park a car I will not remember where it was... Are you same in that regard?
 

Curlijessi

Redshirt
Local time
Today, 07:34
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
11
I forget where I parked only when its in a huge parking lot like a theme park or mall. I miss little details that cause problems at work but its bmgwrting much better. I havent made any mistakes in a while. Thats why I think im either adapting or ADD is improving. I just cant tell if ADD has influenced when I did the personality tests or not. I guess it doesnt matter but I have been thinking about this a lot lately and I really keep going back and forth about it and wanted some outside input from people who are INTP so I can separate the two. Im pretty sure I dont need medication because even when I dis did testing, he said it was very mild ADD. I have clearly been pretty functional so I adapt well.
I think my problems with efficiency come from me trying to analyze something that is supposed to be simple. I try to figuew out the patterns of disease and treat the underlying cause and not just throw medicines at people like a bandaid. So i look at it differenly and it slows me down but I dont think that part is ADD.
 

Serac

A menacing post slithers
Local time
Today, 12:34
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
2,210
Location
Stockholm
I have unbelievably bad memory when it comes to stuff that isn't a part of some logical structure. For example people's names. Earlier today, actually, I was going to send an email to a colleague, and was sitting there thinking "what the fuck was this guy's name". I have worked with him for a year and interact with him on a daily basis.
 

crippli

disturbed
Local time
Today, 13:34
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
1,667
I tell people that to stay calm is more efficient. With great patience comes great reward. If they still don't get it. I can go into detail how complex minds work. But some people will still keep complaining. Short term solutions of long term problem is inefficiency. If they still don't get it, I might tell them to keep quiet, as they are disturbing me and will be the second worst thing they can do to induce inefficiency.

So you see. I wouldn't take their accusations of inefficiency at face value. When reviewed a year or 5 later. First then what solutions where more efficient is more clear.

Operating with concepts is really something else then in the moment. Efficiency isn't readily apparent. Sometimes it takes years to manifest. But what manifests, even a 1000 people of their immediate need for reward way of doing things wouldn't even come close the result that was achieved.

Do you follow up your patients? Maybe you can document that your way is more efficient then theirs. And thereby changing the whole system you are in. Wouldn't that be great?
 

Happy

ENTP
Local time
Today, 21:34
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
1,273
Location
Shallow grave
Don't fall into the trap of explaining away a diagnosis with MBTI. Diagnoses are far from a perfect science, but MBTI isn't at all a science and will leave you without answers for the rest of your days.

[...]

My advice is, if you're going to keep believing in MBTI, hold it as a separate explanation that is not mutually exclusive. Problems come when people start replacing other explanations with personality jargon. Stay flexible.
OMG yes this!
@Curlijessi
@Curlijessi
@Curlijessi

(I have full-blown ADDs, diagnosed. Fell into the trap of explaining it away with MBTI for years. Properly began to deal with it a few years ago, and it was the best thing I could do. Don’t look for something to blame it on, just work on improving yourself. Future-you will thank current-you...)
 

Curlijessi

Redshirt
Local time
Today, 07:34
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
11
Happy,
Thanks for your input. I have been qorking on my ADD though nurtition and also helping other things heal. So I think my ADD is better because of that. My conclusion is that I have almost healed my ADD through inproving my diet (Autoimmune Paelo) and yoga, meditation, and supplements (especially iodine). So now the ADD is way less bothersome and I feel more like a better functioning self.
 

Brawndo

The Thirst Mutilator
Local time
Today, 04:34
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
2
Location
United States
So I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult as well. I was forgetting everything, I was bored, restless, and couldn’t turn my mind off. I was always anxious, trying to please everyone, and always felt like I was falling short. It’s difficult to live like that in a professional environment, which is what prompted me to talk to my doctor. The doctor did a thorough work up, including looking at my elementary school report cards before his diagnosis and prescription.

The short story is this. I latched onto my ADD and my MBTI as the reasons for my forgetfulness and anxiety. This is me...This is who I am. It turns out I am none of those things.

After an especially bad personality conflict at work, I got home and objectively contemplated my self, and my inability to get along with my co workers. It was a brutally honest account of things. I have spent the past two years since then stripping away who I am not. No prescriptions anymore. I have jumped all in on nourishing my soul. Meditation and mindfulness. Honesty with self and others. Strip away the things we do to ourselves that burden our minds. No more ADHD symptoms.

I also have a high stress, life/death job that requires quick thinking, a good memory, and people skills. By being present, I can quickly handle whatever needs handling by consciously choosing my response rather than reacting emotionally to something.
I haven’t felt anxious for over a year now. I know where my car and my keys are.

I’ll finish with this Curlijessi..look at the MBTI as a tool that reminds you how complex and wonderful you are, then breathe and be still for a while.
 

moody

Active Member
Local time
Today, 04:34
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Messages
108
There are a lot of problems with the diagnosis of ADD and ADHD.

I was also told by a psychiatrist that I had ADD/ADHD, and they wanted to put me on medication. Something about her reasoning didn't consolidate to me, so I didn't take her up on it. Turns out I had an un-diagnosed medical condition that manifested to look to other people as though I had ADD/ADHD.

I am an INTP as well, and I've always had quirks that resembled ADHD, though it never inhibited my performance inter-personally or in school to merit any sort of intervention. I think the added stress of an undiagnosed medical condition brought out these tendencies and made me struggle with managing them. Do I actually have ADHD? No, because that wasn't/isn't the cause of the symptoms I have.

I strongly believe that there and many other people who've had the same sort of thing happen to them, due to effects of emotions and/or physical stress of separate problems. I'm glad I knew myself better than to completely listen to that psychiatrist, but most people either: 1. distrust all medical advice, or 2. trust all medical advice.

My opinion? ADD/ADHD is a great way to get medicine sold, so a lot of kids who exhibit symptoms just get diagnosed without further investigation. It's just convenient that there is not any known constant physical measures of diagnosing ADD/ADHD, just professional opinion.
 

higs

Omg wow imo
Local time
Today, 12:34
Joined
Apr 3, 2012
Messages
1,974
Location
Armchair
Yeah I think the ADD ADHD thing looks kind of shoddy. I think maybe some people just aren't so suited to certain tasks etc. But I wouldn't say I have all that much info on the issue, just a personal opinion type thing. Some of my friends were turbulent children put on ritalin. I think it's scandalous to give a child drugs of this kind because they can't sit still through a bloody grammar lesson. Hell the only reason I was able to sit through them without going crazy was by being extremely good at day dreaming. I was naturally spaced out throughout most of my schooling, to the complaint of my teachers, though I wasn't rowdy so it didn't matter that much to them either. I am quite sure if I had been failing all my lessons they would have diagnosed me with ADD. As it happens I was passable, despite lacking any discipline or rigor and only showing rare bursts of enthusiasm and engagement. I don't really know whether it's my fault or theirs to be honest.

One of my best friends was put on these treatments very young by rubbish parents and teachers overcome by his energy. Recently he has started taking this stuff again. It is exceedingly clear to me that he has 0 problems concentrating on things. He was put on this stuff because he wasn't concentrating on the things people wanted him to concentrate on.

I think it's suspicious that it's a diagnosis pushed by american pharmaceutical companies, their health sector is crazy and corrupted in all kinds of ways by people trying to run profits all the time. Even in other countries drug companies are constantly trying to nudge doctors into prescribing their products. You need a tight rein on this stuff.

On the whole it is probably much less shoddy than mbti though, like Hado said. I tried some concerta once, and it definitely helped me "focus", in that it was like very light cocaine that gave me a buzz so that I didn't feel unhappy sitting through something dull. That's my take away from it. What I'm saying I guess is that I would try and find a state of affairs that fitted my mind before forcing my mind to adapt to the state of affairs. I find it shocking that you were outright fired ? How below the standard were you for this job ? And more importantly, was the standard attainable by anyone not on drugs of some kind :D ?

Disclaimer : I have only a surface understanding of this stuff and what it takes to diagnose someone etc.
 

Animekitty

I am all of my perception (Sally 666)
Local time
Today, 05:34
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
6,195
Location
subjective
They told my brother he was actually hyper-focused not attention deficit. He did not need the drugs or treatments they gave him. Ritilian has two side effects, increase activity and decreased activity. This happens to some of the population. Making kids more hyper. And. And others into zombies. I preference not everyone but some do.
 

moody

Active Member
Local time
Today, 04:34
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Messages
108
Hell the only reason I was able to sit through them without going crazy was by being extremely good at day dreaming.
This is exactly what I did in elementary, middle, and to a lesser degree, high school. I can never stop thinking, but daydreaming helps me shut up about it.

I am quite sure if I had been failing all my lessons they would have diagnosed me with ADD.
Ditto.

And more importantly, was the standard attainable by anyone not on drugs of some kind :D ?
Probably not...! I can't speak for other countries, but the climate in the workplace is that work should be the focal point of your life. I didn't know that was weird until a friend from Germany pointed it out to me. There really aren't any breaks in a lot of positions, since the work load or extra activities you are required to do take up that time. Prioritizing sleep it looked at as weak, and not many bosses are understanding about personal or health related issues. No one cares.

So many suicides at major universities are shoved under the rug, and it's normal for college kids at the more prestigious schools take adderall to get through testing periods.

They told my brother he was actually hyper-focused not attention deficit. He did not need the drugs or treatments they gave him. Ritilian has two side effects, increase activity and decreased activity. This happens to some of the population. Making kids more hyper. And. And others into zombies. I preference not everyone but some do.
I've taken ritalin before, and I wouldn't say that it necessarily does either for me; it can make me very clear headed, and allows me to articulate and zero-in on things in a way that would usually be harder. But that doesn't mean I can't get distracted, as I've accidentally gotten zeroed-in on something unproductive, such as trying to go into deep research on gene expression in drowsyndrome when I really had something else to be doing....
 

ANAXEL

I always get invited to parties
Local time
Today, 06:34
Joined
May 31, 2019
Messages
7
I tell people that to stay calm is more efficient. With great patience comes great reward. If they still don't get it. I can go into detail how complex minds work. But some people will still keep complaining. Short term solutions of long term problem is inefficiency. If they still don't get it, I might tell them to keep quiet, as they are disturbing me and will be the second worst thing they can do to induce inefficiency.

So you see. I wouldn't take their accusations of inefficiency at face value. When reviewed a year or 5 later. First then what solutions where more efficient is more clear.

Operating with concepts is really something else then in the moment. Efficiency isn't readily apparent. Sometimes it takes years to manifest. But what manifests, even a 1000 people of their immediate need for reward way of doing things wouldn't even come close the result that was achieved.

Do you follow up your patients? Maybe you can document that your way is more efficient then theirs. And thereby changing the whole system you are in. Wouldn't that be great?
Man, I really appreciated this post.
Self evaluation based on end results needs to be evaluated in and of itself.
If we judge ourselves based on the arbitrary standards the world imposes, especially for NP’s, we’ll always consider ourselves less.

I have suffered from “ADHD” all my life, but my battle against it is being focused more for my own merit. As it’s been brought up, future me is who I think about, not every figure of relative authority who has told me “what’s wrong with you?”, “why won’t you?”, “don’t you care about-?”.
Well, my understanding of it, instead of simply calling it “ADHD” and leaving at that, facilitates me to take apart what constitutes as the diagnosed syndrome.
Need to work on self discipline. Get my goals accomplished, give myself a break from myself every once in a while, etc. Working on individual componentes has been much more beneficial for me.
So yeah, some times you won’t be immediately efficient like a Te user (though about half of them display so many ADHD traits just in a different area I swear to god omg), but it’s true, the Ti efficiency and the overall quirks of “ADHD” grant other results of it’s intentionally monitored.

Honestly, it’s like being criticized by other drivers for driving a F1 car in regular civilian traffic.
For most ADHD folks, once we are set in an environment that benefits from our ich of constant change we allow our self approval, but this can happen earlier.
In taming ADHD and using your incredibly high-acceleration low-fuel-efficiency engine, just never give up, please.
We are the kings of relapses and crashes. But a relapse does not equate regresión. It’s just a stumbling in the learning to walk while you’re trying to run.
 

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
Local time
Today, 12:34
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
495
Location
Between concrete walls
There is no such thing as ADD or ADHD or whathe fuck......

Brain is complex organ and there many reasons why a person cant focus. Its important to figure out the root cause. Ability to focus is major and most important thing in life. If you cant focus its a huge deal, because it makes you basically incapable of doing things.

Now there is always some slight variation. Everybrain is different, much like figer prints brain wiring is unique to person.

The label it self is just bureaucracy at work in psychiatric industry. They need some official word for some way to tell people something is wrong with them and then pill them for life. Its not really a meaningful term for most though.

Practical I think vigorous regular exercise and maybe some long term fasting could do the trick. Both done separately of course.
 

pjoa09

dopaminergic
Local time
Today, 18:34
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
1,849
Location
th
I was diagnosed with ADHD (mostly by myself. Im a physician assistant). But I also was tested and found to have mild ADD. But I got through high school, undergrad, and Medical school I guess by adapting or intelligence or both. I only qent to a psychiatrist after having difficulty with my first job as a PA because I couldnt remeber the details of what patients were saying and I would get overwhelmed and was inefficient in seeing patients. I ended up getting fired from my first job because i couldnt meet the eficiency requirements that they wanted. In retrospect I think that was pretty harsh because I had a major injury and was on crutches the whole time i worked there plus I was pumping (i was breastfeeding at the time).
I started medication around that time and was able to meet and exceed the patient quota towards the end but they still fired me. I was only there 3 months.
My second job, similar situation except I still work here 4 years later. I have been counceled several times for beong too "slow" with seeing patients (their standards are pretty high, I work on urgent care).
But more recenly, I stopped taking my medication because Im working on healing some other health issues and it hasnt made a major difference on my work efficiency.
Im starting to think either my mild ADD has proved or I never had ADD.
Most of my symptoms can also be explained by my personality tyoe and how I process information. For example, I used to lose things ALL the time. Like keys or my phone or useful items. Most of the time the object was either right in front of me or in an obscure location.
I cant remeber the details of what patients say because they dont matter. I can see the patterns of diesase and am very accurate on diagnosis. But i forget the details as soon as they were done woth the story.
This has to do with how the Ne works. Or so I have come to understand.
So now I just write down the details of what they say so I can use them when I dictate the note. I cant do a note without that.
Anyone else forget what people said but remember what they were taling about? Also if someone is boring, or takes forever to get to the point, I remember nothing of what they said.
Anyone else lose things like I do? Or forgetful? Im starting to think it is all just INTP traits. Im much like the "absent minded professor" who is forgetful about the daily practical things because their head is full of thoughts. This is why I thought I had ADD. But Im no longer sure.
The issue isn't at MBTI. The issue is that your job needs you to keep track of your items and your patients stories/diagnosis. I have "ADHD" but I take my medication just to meet what is expected of me. I also drink tonnes of coffee. To address my inattentive-ness naturally I lift weights, keep everything in binders, note down anything I might forget, ask people to summarize what they're asking for, set timers, read books, record the path I take from my car to malls, and listen to podcasts. I also unintentionally developed a habit of patting myself down every time I leave my house, anxiously run back to atm machines to see if I forgot my ATM card, and strategically leave items in my car that I know I would forget (iPhone charger, deodorant).

It's just the life that you have to adapt for.

Ask your doctor about those health issues and look into CBT. It sucks and you might not have ADD (hell it might not exist) but you need to support your family and not have negativity coming from your managers etc.

TLDR: Doesn't matter what you have, do what helps you do your job. Unless work sucks, then do something else.
 
Top Bottom