Are restrictions really meaningful for COVID?

[ZenRaiden]

I was thinking that since restrictions were sort of effective at the start before Covid became all round spread out disease, and vaccines, at least had a small promise of stopping it completely, it all seemed legit.

But considering that restrictions now are really just slowing economy and it has been two full years with Covid and not much has changed in terms of Covid I am starting to think most restrictions now are only doing damage to economy not to Covid.

I was pro restrictions at the start of Covid, but that was mainly, because I thought they would be much more effective, I actually thought people would be capable of pulling together and sitting it out for few months and get rid of the virus or at least limit it spread to trackable amount where those who get it would be traced and isolated.

The issue is nowdays with all the people against restrictions, and even people kind of just not giving a fuck anymore, restrictions at this point are merely a game of pretend mostly.

Yes old folk get some protection, the vaccine stopped spread of virus, and yes immuno compromised people, people with asthma and so on get protection as well. But they are kind of screwed anyway. They have to wear masks and be careful regardless of what other people do. Its more of a duty to themselves.

On the other hand if we are talking political its pointless to limit freedoms of people who just don't care, because
a) they will not abide by restrictions unless forced to, but that means anytime they can they will circumvent them anyhow.
b) its their life, their lungs,etc. We let people smoke, take drugs, etc. why the hell not let them get the "flu" and risk it.

I mean its bad, we know some people die even if they are healthy and young, not in the range of most likely to die, but then again if freedom is important to people who is to say, that them putting their life in risk is any ones problem.

I do think employers should hold people to certain reasonable standards. Especially people who want to wear masks, and don't want to be exposed to contracting the disease, but I think its hubris at this point trying to control population from contracting a disease that is ever where.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with restrictions in as much as they help prevent the spread of virus, but at this point it seems the governments of those countries that did not manage to get the disease under control are pretty much just playing a show, not really stopping the disease anymore.

I mean Singapore or New Zealand and countries over all that managed to control the spread, did exactly what those restrictions were supposed to do.

However at this point so many people are merely hurting due to restrictions, and generally whether people take them seriously or not is merely a matter of personal conviction and personal conscience, I think its better for most countries to leave Covid restrictions, and simply let people decided for themselves if they want to be infected or not.

Some things like distancing are cool, but lets be honest people don't really do it.
Masks are cool, but if there are pubs, shops, restaurants that don't like to impose this on people, it should be legal.
I am not saying restrictions should not be under advice of epidemiologist.

I think those who care to read and want to be safe, for real, not just because some one is telling them to be safe, will follow safety, those who don't care will willingly undergo the risk.

 

[dr froyd]

authorities have somewhat painted themselves into a corner: they've been telling people vaccines protect from infection and transmission and that you're free to do whatever you like if you're vaccinated. But since it is now clear the vaccinated spread the virus, letting the vaccinated roam free is not a method for stopping the spread. But if they now say: even if your're vaccinated you have to be locked inside your home, it means they have been completely wrong or lying about vaccines. The solution in Scandinavia and UK now is that they say: "good news folks, we open everything up, but we can do that *because* vaccines work so wonderfully. Because you see, contrary to all empirical evidence, vaccine effectiveness has just magically skyrocketed".

 

[Puffy]

A significant shift in the narrative seems to be related to the perceived threat of COVID. In the UK at least it's common to perceive the recent Omicron variant as weaker and akin to a common cold or flu. People take that to mean that future variants will also be weak and respond in kind and go back to normal. In the UK at least, I believe all the government is doing is following along with the public mood and opening things up as they know it's the popular move. They want to be able to say when it comes to the next election, "look at how we handled the situation, if the opposition were in power you'd still be in lockdown!"

I don't know how different the sentiment is in other countries but I'm unsure where the COVID narrative can go from here. The only way for it to keep going really is if a more deadly variant came into play or if the hospitals suddenly got overcrowded. Otherwise, things will open up. More vulnerable or cautious people will choose to get vaccinated annually, and a lot of people won't similar to flu vaccinations.

I'm interested in that respect to see how the narratives around COVID-19 shift. Both from a mainstream perspective and how the alternative and what have been labelled "conspiracy" perspectives interpret this whole episode as having been about.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Politics have completely gotten in the way of the entire issue in the US.

I don't know, we don't know what restrictions you speak of here in the states. Right now it's only specific businesses that may or may not be able to enforce restrictions. Some jurisdictions I imagine do have strict restrictions, but you have to do what? Wear a mask, be vaccinated, stay 6ft apart? In the last 12 months we've had several scandalous controversies revolving around stampedes at music concerts and no one even mentions Covid.

The medical resources argument wasn't really ever enough to convince people to act right, because it was "just" a portion of the population that would end up being hospitalized. So controversy breaks out over the rational thing to do and two years later you have wide swaths of the population that just don't have it in them to give a shit anymore.

In my region, there was only one point in the entire pandemic where every level of government was on the same page, and it ended after a month when cases went down and anxieties were quelled. We reopened and but that doesn't mean that cases around our jurisdictions got better because they again, we licensed to take, or not take matters into their own hands. Cases rates exploded within the 3 weeks.

The only argument I see on my personal Social media timelines is that everyone should have individualism. I don't see anyone losing money because people are enforcing anti-Covid policies. If anything I see people voluntarily quitting because they don't want to follow them.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Well the bottom line is the virus does not care about opinions, or politics, or religion, or economy.

I think most societies kind of went cuckoo when they thought they can outsmart a virus with numbers and statistics.

Not really how viruses work.

Generally virus works by spreading, most doctors know that.

But generally the way of having a cake and eating it too, does not exist.
Cake is a lie.

 

[crippli]

I sort of forgot about covid about a month ago. Still keeping track of it, somewhere. Logic is teoretical. So RL may use a different variant, or more advanced logic. But this video made sense to me. I have yet to accuratly figure out what omicron will do to the body. Like maybe long covid. So if possible. Will stay clear. The clock is ticking, now that they open up everything. I will make my odds for that like 10%. But I think it's the right call. People like to drink. And be close. So. Why not. If I lived in the city I would be upset everything was restricted, more then usual.

 

[ZenRaiden]

authorities have somewhat painted themselves into a corner: they've been telling people vaccines protect from infection and transmission and that you're free to do whatever you like if you're vaccinated. But since it is now clear the vaccinated spread the virus, letting the vaccinated roam free is not a method for stopping the spread. But if they now say: even if your're vaccinated you have to be locked inside your home, it means they have been completely wrong or lying about vaccines. The solution in Scandinavia and UK now is that they say: "good news folks, we open everything up, but we can do that *because* vaccines work so wonderfully. Because you see, contrary to all empirical evidence, vaccine effectiveness has just magically skyrocketed".

Yeah agree, but they are not authorities.
They are politicians.
Doctors and epidemiologist are authorities with big A.

They study the virus and they know more than most people alive.

Some half literate Russian agent named Boris is not a authority.
He is a randomly generated agent of doom.

Mistrusting politicians who cannot get their story straight is normal and obvious.

I also marvel at the fact people hate Pfizer for making money out of vaccines.
Like we live in a world where everything is made by and for money.
IF you trust your bank, and trust your barber and trust your groceries being food, how can you not trust those who have been making vaccines?
Well because they make lots of money.

Unfortunately vaccines make lot of money and that is why politicians will be pushed to make pro vaccine decisions.
Its called leverage of big corps over system.

There used to be people who worried that phones will give you ear cancer. For what its worth, I still don't know how people cannot get over the fact political decisions are always in favor of profit. Especially in a system that is built around capital and profit.



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Bottom line is agree with you say, in my country they have also done damage by making random decisions that were more knee jerk reactions than actually good and well planed steps to alleviate the growth of infections and thus unloading the hospitals with needless cases.

 

[ZenRaiden]

A significant shift in the narrative seems to be related to the perceived threat of COVID. In the UK at least it's common to perceive the recent Omicron variant as weaker and akin to a common cold or flu. People take that to mean that future variants will also be weak and respond in kind and go back to normal. In the UK at least, I believe all the government is doing is following along with the public mood and opening things up as they know it's the popular move. They want to be able to say when it comes to the next election, "look at how we handled the situation, if the opposition were in power you'd still be in lockdown!"

I don't know how different the sentiment is in other countries but I'm unsure where the COVID narrative can go from here. The only way for it to keep going really is if a more deadly variant came into play or if the hospitals suddenly got overcrowded. Otherwise, things will open up. More vulnerable or cautious people will choose to get vaccinated annually, and a lot of people won't similar to flu vaccinations.

I'm interested in that respect to see how the narratives around COVID-19 shift. Both from a mainstream perspective and how the alternative and what have been labelled "conspiracy" perspectives interpret this whole episode as having been about.

I think the narrative is always bit creative in todays time.

Trouble is people act like COVID is something extraterrestrial.
Its a damn virus and people are losing their piece of mind over it.

My main beef here is that people act like there is no room for fuck ups, but obviously some will always happen due to novelty of this problem.
Not only is the problem new its very specific and societies world wide are very confused about it.

Truth be told if the virus was more deadly it would not get past wuhan.

Lets not forget Asians ( the people like Chinese) are extremely good at Math.
They probably did the math, decided to go full terminator on the virus and are now pretty much free to do whatever.

Here in the "west" everyone acts like its the end of the world to work from home or wear a mask.

Unfortunately the bad times are not over.
A part from the virus hitting the economy it will also create a recession.
Not just because of the virus, but because recessions have a habit of showing up periodically.
Last one was around 2008 and that is 14 years ago. One is about happen now.

If people are losing there shit now, I wonder whats going to happen to them in near future when things get only worse.

Not to mention viruses like COVID are bound to happen again and again.
This is not the first time there was a pandemic and not the last time.

 

[ZenRaiden]

The only argument I see on my personal Social media timelines is that everyone should have individualism. I don't see anyone losing money because people are enforcing anti-Covid policies. If anything I see people voluntarily quitting because they don't want to follow them.

To me individualism makes sense in free society, but I am not sure whether US is free society, if people have so few options in life, that they have to rebel against vaccines and restrictions.
Kind of probably means, that if people have so few options in life to exercise their individual freedom they will probably act out even against the most basic things.

Reminds me of people who have issue with every single thing.

You would think that rich societies would just absorb the punch into their fat economy and flex back. Unfortunately economy basically crumbles like house of cards, and people are losing sense of self, because they get a vaccine or have to wear a mask.
Kind of sad.

The fact is though the game is not over yet, and since COVID might be a long term problem or forever it is very likely the losses thus far are only temporary, but long term decisions might sway the outcome for many countries into a better realm of outcome.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

The supply chain issue I hear is mostly caused because we are indeed depending very too much on one another. Kinda contradicts the premise civilizations tell themselves.

Rather, we want to be so efficient, that we don't care about things breaking our efficient systems that will make the system crumble as you say until it happens. To plan against a 100 year pandemic is dumb, because you're spending economic resources on things you might not deal with in your lifetime, to prevent a recession that you might not experience. Well we are currently experiencing it.

Then we have billionaires and corporations quadrupling many times over, their net worth from the fall out.

Individualism at its finest.

It is sad. All this changes nothing because individuals only care about what's happening in front of their face.

In the end I partake in tobacco product usage, so I might be doing more damage than Covid statistically. If everyone stopped smoking tomorrow, would the world be a better place? Debatably, yes. Why don't we do it, besides obvious physiological attraction? Sure the market decides, but why don't we take more steps?

The real winners are the people who have gamed this system. I'm done wasting time skirmishing over something that's unwinnable by design.