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can you forgive betrayal?

Synthetix

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If someone close to me, whom I trust and love, violates the boundaries of a close relationship/friendship, I find it hard to ever look at that person in the same light again.

You can steal from me, fight me, argue with me, or cause harm to me, and I'll be mad... But eventually I'll get over that and end the beef. However, betrayal is the ultimate injustice. You've become a traitor, no longer worthy of my trust or the positive things I offer. My boundaries are wide, which makes it unlikely that I'll consider someones actions as turning their back on me. but there are principles I stick to that just can't be violated. Principles so basic that neglecting them is purposeful and the action(s) that violate(s) those principles is nothing other than a blatant act of treason.
 

Darby

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Sadly, you are not alone, and I've ended friendships because of this kind of thing.
 

Systems

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Betrayal can never be forgiven...!


(Sorry for lame D3 reference :p)

On a more serious note, I think it will vary with each situation based on the degree of betrayal and the degree of closeness up to that point. Sometimes you need to cut your losses, and other times you need to forgive and remember, that we all do bad things now and again.
 

LPolaright

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I'm rather forgiving, but changing my approach to the people surrounding me - knowing that they also have their own interests that you cannot change. Nothing really makes me mad, and so, there's nothing to forgive.

When I do get really really mad, I break the relationship almost completely - but that's only when the other person does an extraordinary selfish thing that was done despite the fact that they would know I'd get hurt to gain something.
 

EditorOne

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When really betrayed by someone who is really close, I'm done. I've learned, however, to check first before jumping. Sometimes, if you come to believe betrayal is a normal behavior pattern for humanity, you can see it where it doesn't really exist. I've made facts fit a betrayal premise only to find out I was badly mistaken. Not a good day.
 

Darby

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Sometimes, if you come to believe betrayal is a normal behavior pattern for humanity, you can see it where it doesn't really exist. I've made facts fit a betrayal premise only to find out I was badly mistaken. Not a good day.
I struggle with this one now because my ex cheated on me repeatedly, and now I struggle heavily with dealing with situations where I feel it might happen. I tell myself I just need to trust them more, but in the end it doesn't matter how much I trust them because it has nothing to do with trust, and everything to do with my own fear and paranoia surrounding the situation.

The two things that will/have ended friendships for me, were:

Telling me to do something I felt was dishonest, and then after I gave my reasoning, continuing to tell me to do it anyway.

and lying about me to other people. I don't care if it's a little bit of exaggeration for a story or something like that, but complete and utter fabrication in such a way as to make me look bad/worse makes me so fucking mad it's almost retarded.
 

xbox

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Those kind of people are dead to me.
 

pernoctator

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I think I can forgive anything. Betrayal hits hard though. I think even more than actually resenting the person for doing it, I'm bothered by the fact that my instincts about people (which I trust a lot) were proved wrong, and I feel like I can't trust myself.
 

Da Blob

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If someone close to me, whom I trust and love, violates the boundaries of a close relationship/friendship, I find it hard to ever look at that person in the same light again.

You can steal from me, fight me, argue with me, or cause harm to me, and I'll be mad... But eventually I'll get over that and end the beef. However, betrayal is the ultimate injustice. You've become a traitor, no longer worthy of my trust or the positive things I offer. My boundaries are wide, which makes it unlikely that I'll consider someones actions as turning their back on me. but there are principles I stick to that just can't be violated. Principles so basic that neglecting them is purposeful and the action(s) that violate(s) those principles is nothing other than a blatant act of treason.
Unfortunately, it seems to be impossible to love, without being able to forgive instances of betrayal. After all, whose fault was it, the betrayer or the betrayed? There is not an easy answer to this question.

Trust is a heavy burden to bear. When you trust someone with something it is not a gift, but a liability. When I enter a relationship with a client, I state "Do not trust me!, I have enough responsibilities as it is". This is often seen as an offensive comment by those who had no intention of ever trusting me in the first place, but it opens up a sincere conversation about trust and its role in relationships.

Trust is based upon one's own knowledge, so betrayal can be seen as a form of one's own ignorance. For example, I love and trust my younger brother. He is a lying, thieving, conniving, manipulative sociopath who cares for nothing but his own pleasures. But this I know, so I can trust him (to be " a lying, thieving, conniving, manipulative sociopath who cares for nothing but his own pleasures"), I still can love him, because I have been able to forgive him. He can't betray me because I know him.

I am a Christian and the only task I have on this Earth is to learn how to love. To actually Be a Christian, one simply has to understand and act on this single, short passage:

Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
It is simple, it is an elegant solution, yet for some odd reason, a very, very difficult goal for humans to reach. In fact, my perspective on man-made Christian religions is that they all seem to be based upon on some variation of "One does not really have to love God or one's neighbor to reach heaven" Many denominations usually have long lists of those considered 'unlovable', those despicable Sinners.

I think this failure of Christians to love, is caused by the fact that some of our neighbors are just easier to love than others.In fact, I have 'neighbors" that I still can not love, despite 'trying' to do so for over 30 years. Yet it is written...

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Again a scripture that many Christian denominations stumble over...

However, the point I am trying to share with the nonbelievers who read this and have had difficulty loving, or even fear entering into loving relationships, because of betrayal is this:

Betrayal is not a mere possibility, but a certainty. There is no human capable of carrying the burden of trust - thrust upon/demanded of he or she by an Other in a relationship. Again if trust is a derivative of knowledge, then knowledge of the certainty of betrayal of trust, allows one to trust - but one learns to trust in degrees, knowing that betrayal, also measured in degrees, makes up the full circumference of a relationship.

Everyone of us has betrayed a trust at some point in our lives and sometimes it was a trust we did not even know had been placed upon us. How do we correct for this error on the part of those who have given us misplaced trust - who thought they knew us, but were mistaken?

We suggest they learn the value of forgiveness. Forgiveness is often associated with the idea of an elimination of a debt. A debt is a liability, but for whom? One the interesting facets of the process of forgiveness, is that the principle beneficiary, is the Forgiver, not the Forgiven. Those who feel betrayed by us can be healed by forgiving us. So when one asks to be forgiven, one is asking the injured party to "heal thyself, please..."

Paradoxes four,
Love, Trust, Betrayal, Forgiveness...
Perhaps if one learns to expect misunderstanding
and forgive inevitable betrayal before it occurs,
one can trust in that betrayal
not having the power to destroy love.
What is love, but willing submission
What greater love is there
than that given to a known betrayer?
 

Architect

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Define betrayal.
 

Da Blob

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betrayal - the act of not meeting expectations or in rare cases, exceeding expectations, often accompanied by the affects connected with abandonment/grief in those who believe that they have experienced betrayal.
 

Architect

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betrayal - the act of not meeting expectations or in rare cases, exceeding expectations, often accompanied by the affects connected with abandonment/grief in those who believe that they have experienced betrayal.
Yes obviously, that's just the dictionary definition which we all know. I'm looking for personal definitions.

I ask because I've had friends who appears to believe I had betrayed them, where from my perspective I hadn't. Likewise I've taken other peoples action as betrayal, where I'm sure they didn't see it that way.
 

Da Blob

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Yes obviously, that's just the dictionary definition which we all know. I'm looking for personal definitions.

I ask because I've had friends who appears to believe I had betrayed them, where from my perspective I hadn't. Likewise I've taken other peoples action as betrayal, where I'm sure they didn't see it that way.
Actually that is my personal definition, does one not fit within it as a betrayer?
That's the problem with betrayal, everyone can be considered a betrayer by anyone who prefers feeling betrayed to whatever alternative there could be.


BTW - Here's the dictionary version

betray |biˈtrā|
verb [ trans. ]
be disloyal to

same root as the word, traitor
 

Pistoli

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I don't know if a mature(age 24 and up) INTP believes in "betrayal" or, registers any long lasting emotion from an act of betrayal. Being betrayed by a person is just that person being themselves. I can't hate on that. I just use the new information learned from the betrayer and log it as a part of their personality. So, in the future I can better predict actions from that person...which is a great reward.

I remember my first love, I was 19. After a year or so dating my girlfriend was seen making out with a mutual friend at a party while I was out of town. Initially, I was angry/sad. After I had time to process everything, I realized I was only hurt on a primal level- knowing I wouldn't have easy access to a sexual partner. Which I chalked up to "love". After the shock and aw of the breakup, I looked around and realized there are many women in the world and the odds of me not meeting another partner was extremely low. Plus, all I learned from that relationship was critical.

Now, take a huge betrayal, like the inside job of 9/11. This is the holy grail of betrayal for the U.S. citizens. It's hard to swallow that pill but, I am happy it happened because it made us aware and, galvanized the theory of Shadow Governments and the rise of " New World Order". Of coarse it is an act of betrayal, but it's also a show of cards.
 

nedenom

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Not unless the betrayer him/herself offers a sincere and well reflected apology!

But yes, it is often more an emotion than an act, a personal definition of betrayal is ultimately biased. But put in context with common social ethics, for example, a wife sleeping with his husbands best friend (unless arranged); most people will find that very wrong and agree that it is a betrayal.
 
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