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Captain Marvel

Cognisant

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Spoilers, obviously.

All in all a perfectly adequate superhero movie, Samuel Jackson gave the usual A-list star performance although Fury losing his eye to a cat was a tad underwhelming. Ben Mendelsohn was amazing, the menacing way he spoke really sold me on the Skrulls being dangerous despite the movie showing them getting their asses kicked at every turn and Talos' transition from menacing to diplomatic to comedic straight man to bonafide good guy was what I enjoyed most about the movie.

As for Captian Marvel (aka Carol Danvers, aka Vers, aka shewhohastoomanynames) I think Brie Larson did a great job but the plot/script let the character down in the sense that the writers pulled their punches. A lot of the emotional gravitas of a story comes from the suffering the protagonist has to endure and sure bad things happen to Vers (I'm sticking with that because it's the shortest) but even when she's captured by the Skrulls she just sort of grimaces and falls down and while she's off screen Talos shocks her again and we quickly fade to black.

She "loses" the sparring match against Yon-Rogg (by blasting him across the room), she's "scolded" by the Supreme Intelligence (is softly chided and given an important mission), she "fails" the mission but nobody dies and nobody blames her, she's captured, aboard the enemy ship she's "interrogated" (no actual harm is done to her), she immediately escapes and proceeds to beat the everloving shit out of everyone on board (I think she gets hit once, maybe) when she escapes the pod malfunctions and... I honestly can't remember... oh right it disintegrates around her and she comedically crashes into a Blockbuster at terminal velocity.

Basically she's invincible, she's unstoppable and it's heavily implied that she's only using a fraction of her already considerable power and that turns out to be the case when in the finale she tanks everything the enemy can throw at her and flys through one of their warships like its made of highly explosive cardboard, how the fuck didn't anyone notice that, why isn't Earth's orbit full of space debris in the latter movies, where did all the advanced technology that's being dumped all over the place go?

I'm getting sidetracked, my main point is that the main character has the Superman problem but she has no weaknesses, her "tragic backstory" has little personal significance to her (yeah her friend died, compare that to Talos who had his entire fucking team wiped out by the person he now has to be friends with because oops she had amnesia), to put it simply Vers is the least interesting character in the movie, even Agent Coulson has a dramatic moment and his role in the movie is practically a cameo.

Maria and her daughter are alright but they're just kinda there and there's one scene with Vers and Maria when I was thinking "for fuck sake lady I'm a fucking robot and I can tell the other lady needs a hug" and then there's that whole thing about Maria going into space with them which is really fucking stupid and Maria herself points out exactly why it's really fucking stupid and then she goes anyway because her daughter calls her out on setting a good example. Missy your mother was a fighter pilot and a test pilot no less, you shut your smartass little mouth and show her some well deserved respect, and aunty "oops I committed war crimes" how about you get your head checked before making an orphan of the little girl that looks up to you?

Now if Maria had died up there then we have some hard hitting drama!
 

Cognisant

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Captain Marvel wasn't a bad movie, it's just frustrating because it had the potential to be a great movie, it could have started with her hunting down Skrulls (shown killing them) and relishing it because she's good at it and she's fighting the good fight. Then she gets captured and interrogated and suddenly she has most of her memories from Earth but she doesn't believe them, how could she?

Her mission takes her to Earth and it's all to familiar, but she's Kree, she's Vers, she's absolutely sure that what she's doing is right and the false memories are just a distraction that could threaten her career. The hunt takes her to Maria's farm but she refuses to believe that this is anything but a Skrull trick, Maria begs her to remember her life as Carol and Vers assuming Maria is a Skrull kills her with a photon blast.

The blood is red, Maria's daughter runs to her mother's crumpled body, Vers is rocked with doubt then succumbs to rage, the limiter evaporates and she goes after a now fleeing Talos. She pursues Talos to the secret air force base, follows him inside, brutally putting down all opposition until she finds him in the hanger and just before she blasts him she sees it, the plane. Not the same one a newer model reconstructed from the plans for the original but it's enough to jog her memory, she remembers everything now, the attack, the crash, the explosion, Yon finding her, the Supreme Intelligence brainwashing her.

Up to this point the movie has been a horror story, now comes the catharsis.

Yon and his team arrive, there's a fight scene, an "Alucard goes for a walk" kind of fight scene and the best part is it's justified, then she goes back to Xandar and well now we know why in "Guardians of the Galaxy" even supermax prison guards don't say naughty words.

Edit: Then going into Endgame she isn't just some blond chick with superpowers and an attitude, when she shows up nobody knows who she is except Thor and he's clearly scared of her, so there's this tension between the fact that they clearly need her help and the fact that she's terrifyingly powerful and understandably emotionally unstable.
 

Hadoblado

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I think the superman power level is bad for the marvel universe in general. Fictional universes always encounter friction when introducing more powerful protagonists because everyone else falls by the wayside.

Unpowered people can be relevant in an ironman universe, but not in a thor universe.
 

Cognisant

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It feels like SJWism, especially the Maria going into space bit, I don't want to hear "she's a strong woman she can do anything" or "it's just a movie" I don't like certain characters having obvious plot armor (so obvious they have to lampshade it) to push an agenda and not because of the agenda, it's just stupid.

I like girl power moments, if Maria found out she was talking to a Skrull and punched it the fuck out I'd be like "fuck yeah" but having her in a gunfight, in space, with no spacesuit and no gun and somehow everything turns out fine, that's not a girl power moment that's a cheap "everyone gets a prize" bullshit moment.

And so what if she's a mother and considers that a priority, that's not a bad thing, refusing to go on the space mission doesn't make her weak it just means she has her priorities sorted, but I feel like "she would set a bad example by not going" is the message being told and it's a terrible message in my opinion.
 

Pizzabeak

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I think the superman power level is bad for the marvel universe in general. Fictional universes always encounter friction when introducing more powerful protagonists because everyone else falls by the wayside.

Unpowered people can be relevant in an ironman universe, but not in a thor universe.
That isn't really true at all. There is no "ironman universe" nor a "thor" one.
 

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[redacted non-PC joke. The joke was funny but too complex and could have been misunderstood and since I'm trying to become a more sensitive human being I decided to delete it]
 

travelnjones

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I saw it Saturday, I think American Splendor is still my favorite comic book film. I just don't get comic book movies I guess. I think its from D&D if your strength is 25 you gotta use a weapon to add those bonuses. But At least it had more action than Black Panther.
 

dair

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Ugh. Had three dudes give me their unsolicited negative opinion of this movie today. I don't care about this movie, I haven't seen it. But yo there's a reason you are all so obsessed over this rather than literally any other bad or mediocre movie. You're men right? Stop being so fucking delicate over non-issues. Nobody is trying to cut your damn dick off.
 

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Brie Larson looks like the absolutely most average scandinavian chick ever. I got bored with looking at her bland face just from watching the trailer.
 

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Yeah, I mostly just thought she was a flat character (especially compared to the interesting ones - Fury, Talos, maybe Lawson, etc.) and that the movie was fairly mediocre.

Aside from Vers being boring/unrelatable, though, I would criticize it for having a highly transparent and predictable story. Like, the so-called "plot-twists"? Pretty obvious. And I think that goes hand in hand with its extremely transparent proselytizing of feminist themes. I can't quite pin it down, but there was a very clear focus whenever somebody brought one of these themes up.

I watched Lord of the Rings again the past week, so I can sort of compare the presentation of themes:

As far as feminism goes, it had a wholly developed arc where Eowyn kills the Nazgul king without it being forced - the prophecy was a nice homage to Macbeth. Before the battle at the Black Gate, a message is offered on racism when [paraphrased] Gimli says "I never thought I'd die fighting side by side with an elf" and Legolas responds "how about side by side with a friend?". It's a nice, heartwarming theme but it doesn't clobber you over the head in its blatancy.

On the other hand, Captain Marvel's cinematography/script seemed to place such a high emphasis as Maria goes out of her way to bring up the fact that women couldn't serve in the air force back in the day. I believe that, on multiple occasions, Vers explicitly delivered empowering messages? It's not that the feminist theme itself bothered me (especially since I'm female...), but it was presented in a way that was in line with the rest of the film. Cheap, one dimensional, dumbed down - kind of an insult to the audience, honestly. And that overall blandness is my main issue with the movie.

As for inspiring young women? Uhhh... I don't know; I don't feel inspired in the slightest by some cardboard Mary Sue whose personality would be deemed downright brattish without her powers to back up her temper tantrums.
 

onesteptwostep

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I don't the movie really needs to be viewed as a standalone as the entire film is more of an origin story rather a standalone blockbuster. It's Endgame that we should all be waiting for, not this movie. Can't wait for April 24th, or whenever it was <3
 

Hadoblado

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I think the superman power level is bad for the marvel universe in general. Fictional universes always encounter friction when introducing more powerful protagonists because everyone else falls by the wayside.

Unpowered people can be relevant in an ironman universe, but not in a thor universe.
That isn't really true at all. There is no "ironman universe" nor a "thor" one.

Doesn't seem very intuitive of you.
 

Cognisant

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Ugh. Had three dudes give me their unsolicited negative opinion of this movie today. I don't care about this movie, I haven't seen it. But yo there's a reason you are all so obsessed over this rather than literally any other bad or mediocre movie. You're men right? Stop being so fucking delicate over non-issues. Nobody is trying to cut your damn dick off.
There's a number of scenes (some of which are flashbacks that are repeated at key points in the movie) when Vers has some man rudely hitting on her or she's being scolded by an apparently abusive father. Some of that is to be expected, you don't go prancing about in a skintight leather suit without attracting some attention and a major plot point is her realising Yon's tutelage is actually abusive emotional manipulation (which I thought was quite clever storytelling).

But the "men are bad" card being played over and over was alienating.
 

Hadoblado

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It's really confusing to me how sensitive men are to this sort of representation. I'm considering watching the movie just to see if it's that bad, but I think that's a bad reason to watch it.

Is the #manbad worse than the Gillette ad?
 

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@Hadoblado
Density-wise, certainly not (it wasn't like that was the point of the movie, or the viewers were inundated with those messages). I still think that those themes featured fairly prominently as plot-points, characterization, etc., though. I mean, it's not like I didn't enjoy it; I can appreciate some punching and plasma hands as much as the next person, but it was somewhat contrived and flat, overall.

And, to make it clear, no issue with most of the scenes were Vers is pitted against male characters. But some of them obviously made the point into a male vs. female thing.

Not directed at Hadoblado: I hated how the movie created a sort of tension around Vers' past fuck-ups but never really showed her overcoming them; basically, the reason why she no longer struggles with her impulsiveness is that she was lucky enough to absorb a ton of energy in an explosion? Character development = 0. Was the message supposed to be that she was always fine just the way she was and that we're all #beautiful? If so, that wasn't coherently conveyed at all.
 

dair

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Well droves of men constantly harassing actresses and high profile women and bombing media reviews en masse preemptively doesn't do much to dispute that message. If you don't like the stereotype that's being applied to you, maybe don't be the fucking stereotype.

The media reviews are exceptionally frustrating, because damn it, I wanna know if a movie is good. I don't care about how butthurt the manosphere is about it.
 

Cognisant

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There's no excuse for harassing actresses.

Bad reviews are just that, you can blame people for not appreciating the good parts of a movie (there was nothing wrong with Brie Larsons' acting) but you can't blame them for not liking a movie as a whole.

All in all despite my misgivings I thought it was a good movie, I enjoyed it, I encourage you to go see it. But when a Marvel movie (Captain Marvel no less) alienates half the audience it prompts discussion about what went wrong and where Marvel studios is heading.

If you don't want to hear the opinions of your male friends maybe don't have male friends? Surround yourself with people who will always agree with you, what could go wrong?
 

dair

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eh, they weren't my friends. I couldn't tell you their names. lol

Bombing movies you haven't seen, and even before release is bullshit. Also y'know, most people liked Captain Marvel??? Yeah... so problematic. Definitely the beginning of a new zeitgeist.

Adult temper tantrums aren't cute.
 

onesteptwostep

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@Hadoblado
Density-wise, certainly not (it wasn't like that was the point of the movie, or the viewers were inundated with those messages). I still think that those themes featured fairly prominently as plot-points, characterization, etc., though. I mean, it's not like I didn't enjoy it; I can appreciate some punching and plasma hands as much as the next person, but it was somewhat contrived and flat, overall.

And, to make it clear, no issue with most of the scenes were Vers is pitted against male characters. But some of them obviously made the point into a male vs. female thing.

Not directed at Hadoblado: I hated how the movie created a sort of tension around Vers' past fuck-ups but never really showed her overcoming them; basically, the reason why she no longer struggles with her impulsiveness is that she was lucky enough to absorb a ton of energy in an explosion? Character development = 0. Was the message supposed to be that she was always fine just the way she was and that we're all #beautiful? If so, that wasn't coherently conveyed at all.

Actually I liked how the character development was simple and pretty much nonexistent- it took the focus off of the character and set up how she would do in Endgame. Plus time wise and screen time wise there isn't enough space for a good development of character. I mean it's impossible for another Captain Marvel film and having a another complex character would be impossible to fit into the massive epic that is the Infinity War.
 

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I agree in that I don't really understand why a bunch of grown-ass men get worked up over some supposed politicization of a superhero movie. It's similar to the battlefield 5 situation where people started going "but it's not realisitic that there's a woman there maaaaaan". Who gives a shit, man. It's a goddamn video game. Or a superhero movie. You shouldn't even be watching that stuff if you're above the age of 12 (no offense to anyone above 12 who watched it :p)
 

Jennywocky

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Not directed at Hadoblado: I hated how the movie created a sort of tension around Vers' past fuck-ups but never really showed her overcoming them; basically, the reason why she no longer struggles with her impulsiveness is that she was lucky enough to absorb a ton of energy in an explosion? Character development = 0. Was the message supposed to be that she was always fine just the way she was and that we're all #beautiful? If so, that wasn't coherently conveyed at all.

Right. There was no real character development. The arc for Vers was "can't remember" -> "Oh now I remember" and they didn't really do it in a way that contributed to a real arc.

There's just the one little montage near the end where we see that Vers is persistent/stubborn (which we already knew), her admirable trait is that no matter how badly she's smacked around, she gets back up.

But... no real character development. She did not actually change or overcome anything internal. The characters were all so freaking static.

Not much nuance in the film either. One side is the good guys and one the bad; and then suddenly if/when that changes, the bad people become good and vice versa. It was just kind of a morally thin movie that way, where characters couldn't really be a mix of good and bad, and where sides couldn't be both justified and also wrong in some ways.

Aside from that, it was enjoyable as a popcorn flick, but pretty much forgettable when you walk out of the theater.

Bombing movies you haven't seen, and even before release is bullshit. Also y'know, most people liked Captain Marvel??? Yeah... so problematic. Definitely the beginning of a new zeitgeist.

Yeah, that pisses me off. (Review bombing.)

See the damn film, THEN offer an opinion. Otherwise it's all just social politics and not film criticism. Review bombing is actually the opposite, it is just an attempt to shout down something one knows nothing about with a preformed conclusion versus using one's head to study and analyze it and formulate a conclusion.

It feels like SJWism, especially the Maria going into space bit, I don't want to hear "she's a strong woman she can do anything" or "it's just a movie" I don't like certain characters having obvious plot armor (so obvious they have to lampshade it) to push an agenda and not because of the agenda, it's just stupid.

I like girl power moments, if Maria found out she was talking to a Skrull and punched it the fuck out I'd be like "fuck yeah" but having her in a gunfight, in space, with no spacesuit and no gun and somehow everything turns out fine, that's not a girl power moment that's a cheap "everyone gets a prize" bullshit moment.

And so what if she's a mother and considers that a priority, that's not a bad thing, refusing to go on the space mission doesn't make her weak it just means she has her priorities sorted, but I feel like "she would set a bad example by not going" is the message being told and it's a terrible message in my opinion.

The scene worked a little better in the movie to the degree it did not derail my viewing experience, but like I said above, I found the whole film pretty much "on the surface" and didn't really dig into anything substantial, wrestle with questions, unveil darker truths of life, etc. Unchallenging. I was surprised at how lazy it was in that regard compared with some of the later Marvel offerings.

I mean, it pretty much explains the collective reviews of folks who actually watched the movie -- not a rotten film, but not a great one, it would have been more acceptable early in the MCU run vs now, where it's being greatly outshone. And not much of a story, it felt like a transitional film to get Captain Marvel on the playing field.

I like the idea of Captain Marvel, but she needs a real movie, not this.
 

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I think it provided a weak debut for her; I mean, it's fine to have a movie that "puts her on the playing field", but this was her movie. I'd think the focus should've been on her character development and story (especially making her someone the audience can connect with; I don't think they really succeeded with that). Besides, she's Captain Marvel: the presumed future leader of the Avengers and the most powerful protagonist in the MCU. Sure, they don't want too many complex characters hogging up screen time in Endgame and on, but... come on... shouldn't Captain Marvel be one of those complex characters? They had no issue with developing and expounding on Spiderman, Dr. Strange, and Black Panther, all of whom will be secondary in importance compared to the Avengers' only hope in defeating Thanos.
 

Jennywocky

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I think it provided a weak debut for her; I mean, it's fine to have a movie that "puts her on the playing field", but this was her movie. I'd think the focus should've been on her character development and story (especially making her someone the audience can connect with; I don't think they really succeeded with that).

I think Larson is a good actress but I don't really much connect with her in films. I remember when I saw Room, I could agree she gave a good performance, but that movie didn't really make me feel as much as I expected from all the hype. She's kind of a "cool" actress in terms of temperature, to me (not quite as extreme as someone like Julianne Moore, but maybe that helps explain what I mean? Moore is a really talented actress who emotionally even when she's trying to overtly express, like as Carrie's mom in the remake, doesn't necessary forge an emotional connection.) Compare that to actresses who run "hotter" like Jennifer Lawrence, who can emote all over the place and that's part of her draw, even when she's supposed to be playing cooler (like Katniss Eberdeen).

Besides, she's Captain Marvel: the presumed future leader of the Avengers and the most powerful protagonist in the MCU. Sure, they don't want too many complex characters hogging up screen time in Endgame and on, but... come on... shouldn't Captain Marvel be one of those complex characters? They had no issue with developing and expounding on Spiderman, Dr. Strange, and Black Panther, all of whom will be secondary in importance compared to the Avengers' only hope in defeating Thanos.

I agree those characters you mention have gotten a lot more personality exploration (although Spiderman's had about 6-7 movies to himself at this point, the others just have had one). But yes, we barely know anything about Carol Danvers after one film, while we have a pretty good handle on Stephen Strange, and the crux of HIS film was dependent on him using one of his personality flaws (stubborness) while rising above his other (arrogance) to become truly sacrificial and triumphing via a strategy that was pretty hard on his ego, which made it even better -- I can't even say Carol rose above anything, really. She didn't remember who she was, and then she did, so then she just was... herself. where was the change / rising over personal weakness? it was all externalized ("Oh, the system is keeping her down, and took her memory to keep her in line, and now she's liberated because she got her memory back.") -- maybe one of the most uninteresting character arcs ever.
 

Hadoblado

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One of the issues I see in writing female protagonists atm is that there's such a focus on making sure they're empowered the writer sometimes forgets to give them obstacles and a place to develop from. This isn't necessarily fatal (captain america and superman tend to be depicted this way and they're okay I guess), but it does feel limiting. I'm hoping as female representation is more established, it's played less defensively and starts taking some risks with something more than power fantasy.
 

The Gopher

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One of the issues I see in writing female protagonists atm is that there's such a focus on making sure they're empowered the writer sometimes forgets to give them obstacles and a place to develop from. This isn't necessarily fatal (captain america and superman tend to be depicted this way and they're okay I guess), but it does feel limiting. I'm hoping as female representation is more established, it's played less defensively and starts taking some risks with something more than power fantasy.

One of my friends was complaining about it being very 2000s feminism. Very much you're strong, no you can't be a mother who cares for her kids you have to fly into space even if it orphans a child but it won't because nothing bad can happen to you now because plot. Also hated the lack of agency, everything just happens to her and she doesn't make her own decisions. All in all she was disappointed in it. That said I disputed the agency issue on the basis of, "It was a brainwashing movie" The plot literally forced it into it and it would be the same with a male lead. However the swing side to that is, they could have made the plot different within reason to fix these issues.

Personally I just enjoyed it for what it is. However a lot of people did seem disappointed that it did end up generic since it was in a sense a first for them and they expected better. That said it's marvel, it's generic superhero central.

In regards to her being overpowered though, It's kinda a universe problem in general now. They are up against deity level threats in Thanos/Ego. They have lost their own currently overpowered reality breaking hero's like Dr.Strange. This is the point you need an extra heavy hitter like Captain Marvel. The issue is when Thanos is likely defeated. What's the challenge next?
 

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They could always resolve it by having Captain Marvel part with the Avengers after Thanos is defeated. She could then get her own line of movies... there are far too many characters in the Avengers movies anyways; I think that played out in Infinity War when it (in my opinion) ended up disjointed and herky-jerky what with the constantly shifting focus to give each character their respective screen time.
 

Hadoblado

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See while I think Marvel has many tropes, they're also breaking a lot of those tropes fairly frequently. I do expect better than vanilla from them as they've shown they can do all sorts of things well.

@CatGoddess
Infinity war is better seen as a season finale than a movie in its own right. It's got a ridiculous number of characters, but I think they made it work about as well as it could. I was extremely impressed.
 

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Imo the best superhero stories are when you don't have heroes and villains (though you still have characters that are heroic and/or villainous) but rather just characters, like in Civil War when the Avengers were divided by personal and philosophical differences, having the "good guys" fight each other over their respective definitions of good was really interesting and entertaining.

This is why I'm so pissed off they killed Ultron so decisively, sure it could turn out he had an offline backup somewhere or Vision actually let Ultron escape (being reluctant to kill and confident he can thwart anything Ultron might attempt in his weakened state) or maybe there's still a fragment of Ultron in Vision's subconscious which escapes and becomes a new Ultron, a slightly different Ultron.

If Ultron didn't die he would obviously go after the Infinity Stones and might ally with other villians, maybe not Thanos but what about Vulture or Red Skull or Deadpool or Surtur or General "Thunderbolt" Ross? A mix of old villains isn't just interesting because it gives the heroes a challenge it's interesting to see how those villains interact with each other, heck you could make an entire movie about them fighting each other.
 

Hadoblado

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Yeah villains that are just obstacles tend to suck.
 

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Vulture gets out on parole unusually early, angsts a bit about his wife and daughter avoiding him, he receives text message instructions that lead him to an old machine shop where a copy of Ultron is hidden, his new body is slow, clumsy, incomplete.
"Hey I know you, you're that Stark-bot that went psycho in Sokovia"
Ultron's eyes narrow to angry slits "...sure, and you're a disgruntled Stark industries subcontractor that got uppity and tried to go independent so your boss's lapdog shut you down".
Vulture gets in Ultron's face and they have a glaring contest, there's no clear winner.
"I work for nobody but me"
"Indeed and believe it or not I was never one of Stark's toys" Ultron turns and walks off into the machine shop "I propose a partnership, you want money and I'm happy to give it to you, it's has no value to me, and in return I require your connections and expertise".
Vulture stands there with his arms crossed "to do what?"
Ultron pauses, shoulders slumping slightly, before turn back to face Vulture "I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your daughter didn't survive the recent uh event".
"No you liar NOO!" Vulture reels about, falls against a workbench then with a sudden change of mind leaps forward and knocks Ultron to the ground "Was it you, bastard, did you do this?"
"I've spent the past few years literally putting myself back together, all the automated manufacturing facilities are too secure for me to infiltrate and the manual places like this aren't easy to work with when you don't have a body to work with" Vulture gets off him and stands up "I need your help to get on my feet again, that wasn't proverbial by the way", "oh sorry" Vulture sheepishly hauls him up "fuck you're heavy", "yeah well you try rebuilding yourself with stock materials and parts off ebay".
Vulture goes to sit on a chair while Ultron gives him some time and space to process things.
"Not my Lizzie, god no..."
"I don't want to be that asshole that takes advantage of your grief but my options are limited, I don't know what but the event was but I do know Stark was involved somehow and-" Vulture interrupts "Help me kill him, I don't care who you are or what you want I just want to see Stark suffer and die"
"Oh we are going to be the best of friends"
 

Jennywocky

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Villains aren't really just villains, they are people just like heroes with their own goals. (Heck, the whole Infinity War film is basically Thanos on his own Greek hero quest, triumphing past his obstacles to fulfill his life vision.) They are just seen as villains because their goals are viewed as deficient or destructive in some way, rather than serving the public good. Vulture in Spiderman: Homecoming was interesting because he was just a guy who decided to skirt the law because the law crushed him first, and he still possesses admirable qualities (loyalty to family, respect for those who earn it, protecting another's secrets / honor, etc.). He lived by his own code, was trying to do right by his loved ones, and wasn't just "trying to be evil." or even be an obstacle -- he would have been fine not fighting "heroes."

Was just really disappointed in the "heroes/villains" in Captain Marvel. "Oh, one race is totally villainous, another is totes heroic." Then, "Oh wait, spin that around." Like, maybe let's provide a bit more nuance? It didn't feel real in the least, and so I had little sympathy for anyone, it was a morality play on the level of ten year olds.


As far as it being a feminist movie about 20 years out of date, sure. And basically I think the thing is here that one of the stages of social acceptance and support is when a particular group (whether it's women, or a particular religion, or a flavor of LGBT folks, etc.) stop being all about their particular social drama or victim of the week approach and ends up just having it be part of their character but they are just living life... all the "issues" based stuff feels more coincidental or folds into the other stories. However, it can be difficult to progress to that stage if the social inequities are still beings struggled over.

Honestly, here, though, I wanted to know Carol Danvers as a person, not as a representative of females. And in so doing, her story could have reflected on "women's issues" as she goes about life, sure -- but this was just so on the nose (or, when not, at least superficial-feeling).
 

Pizzabeak

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Loved Captain Marvel, didn't really know who Brie Larson was prior to it although she looked familiar. I wasn't mad they went with a female Captain Marvel. I used to try and figure out why and how they make the decisions they do. Even though there were a couple good action scenes I felt it was mostly an adventure film. Jude Law had a good Yon-Rogg, who ended up resembling Mar-Vell, which people thought he was cast as before the film was finished. The Mar-Vell/Dr. Lawson amalgamation was interesting. Did they only use Jude for this role or will he reprise at all, possibly as a guy Captain Marvel? The Kree are depicted as evil here and Skrulls more innocent, so Vers is really like a renegade hero doing what she does out of necessity. They didn't really know the grand scale events would erupt. The Supreme Intelligence reminded me of Galactus wherein whatever sees it sees what kind of life they are, wherein with Supreme Intelligence they see who or what they have a connection to as its form.
I watched Lord of the Rings again the past week, so I can sort of compare the presentation of themes:

As far as feminism goes, it had a wholly developed arc where Eowyn kills the Nazgul king without it being forced - the prophecy was a nice homage to Macbeth. Before the battle at the Black Gate, a message is offered on racism when [paraphrased] Gimli says "I never thought I'd die fighting side by side with an elf" and Legolas responds "how about side by side with a friend?". It's a nice, heartwarming theme but it doesn't clobber you over the head in its blatancy.
Reminds me of King Arthur.
 
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