Da Blob

[BigApplePi]

My condolences, sir. He was an INFJ, if I remember correctly.-Duxwing

I believe I've seen him refer to himself as an INTP, twice. I missed any INFJ. Not to forget INTP's have Fe as their least able function.

 

[BigApplePi]

@Cognisant.

If you want an example by all means quote any of Da Blob's posts and we'll deconstruct it for you, y'know anything over 500 words and clearly in response to another poster, we would want this to be a fair assessment after all.

Okay. I will look for one. Then we'll tear it apart. But what if the one I choose is all warm and fuzzy? That wouldn't be representative I assume. Anyway I hope to get to it. One thing: Can we keep he discussion to under 10,000 words? Our time is valuable ya know.

 

[Cognisant]

But what if the one I choose is all warm and fuzzy?

Can I bet money on this?

 

[Duxwing]

@Duxwing, it's not a voluntary thing.

Would you mind elaborating?

-Duxwing

 

[Cavallier]

^It's not so much that you volunteer as you are strong armed into it

At gun point.

In the dead of night.

Yes, it involves whips.

 

[Duxwing]

^It's not so much that you volunteer as you are strong armed into it

At gun point.

In the dead of night.

Yes, it involves whips.

Ah, either moderate or be permabanned?

-Duxwing

 

[BigApplePi]

@EyeSeeCold

I'm pretty sure he was referring to the splitting of Philosophy & Faith, not his own behavior.

Yes. I wasn't following his discussion closely but I thought I saw him talking about science and was trying to connect that up. I'm not too hot on doing that with religion (other than psychology) so I ignored it. It one takes it seriously it would be annoying though.

 

[Cognisant]

Ah, either moderate or be permabanned?

-Duxwing

It's too late, there is no escape.

I didn't escape, they set me loose, y'see I'm still wearing the dog collar.

 

[EditorOne]

"The fact that intolerance is necessary to stem the abuse of tolerance is one of life's most irksome paradoxes, no? Especially to the tolerant forced to act against their own good will."

That was wonderfully stated.

It also explains how Da Blob got through 6,000 posts before finally being banned, does it not?

 

[Montresor]

I missed any INFJ. Not to forget INTP's have Fe as their least able function.

Was he Ni or Ne?

But what was it, misdemeanor or a felony?

AAAH I live in Canada! To me you're asking if it was a summary or indictable offense? We also have hybrid summary/indictable offenses.

Yes, it involves whips.

I really think he is starting to like the idea.

 

[crippli]

Was he Ni or Ne?

Depends how you read his posts I'd say both.

 

[BigApplePi]

Whew! I finally read all the posts ... well not all in case you post while I'm composing this. I happened to notice the title of this thread is "Da Blob." So in keeping with that theme I will try to keep within that theme.

I've always liked Da Blob but never took his religiousity seriously. Or at least not any more seriously than I do with politics or economics. I take them seriously when the discussion is serious. I liked his knowledge of psychology because I share that interest. I saw Da Blob as a peer and we had a few conversations. I thought him insightful, intelligent and devoted to a view. I just put his view aside ... to join in only if something grabbed me. I like to stand back and observe I guess. The more important something is to someone, the more complex it must be. Complex means I can't trivialize it. I can ask questions about it and often do. But criticize? Not unless it's in the form of a doubt.

I observe a great many of you find/found him annoying (your word). I have to listen to that. The moderators thought about this, got together and with the input they got from others, acted. What bothers me is I didn't know about this.** DaBlob is different from other banned ones. 6000 posts almost and lots of new threads. I thought he was trying to contribute. (I didn't say succeeding.) I couldn't keep up and had no idea he was a ban candidate even though I should have. If I had known I would have tried to save him. I would have wanted to. (I feel the same way about Adymus. I wasn't paying attention.) The mods have said he was warned and was "doomed" (my word) anyway. Still I would have wanted to interrogate him:

What was his ambition? Did he want to help people? To inform them? To try out his theories? I talked with him about other stuff and found him quite talkable to. Not like what some of you have said. Although I've felt friendly toward him because we could talk, I let him down. No private messages. No warnings ... all blind to me. I feel badly because a true friend would have not let him down. If I had known I would have tried to "beat him up" on what he was doing ... and you guys would have told me what to beat him up about. I think he would have listened, but that's my fantasy. At least I would have tried.

I identify with him. I post a lot just as he does. What if this annoys people also? They haven't said anything (except for the "L" guy). What if they talk to the mods and I don't notice? I have noticed sometimes there is a new thread and three people reply. I saw myself once replying to all four? Did I do that out of self-indulgence or was it helpful? What if some people see that as shutting them out? That would be annoying. That's a good reason for identifying with DaBlob.

I'm grateful a saw a mod message* encouraging us to vent here. I'm only disappointed in this particular banning there was no public venting before the event.
_____________
I wrote this separately but it might fit here:
DaBlob's "crime" is a social one ... a personality issue. What is see missing is a public social discussion involving HIM with HIM. Private message of grievances are bound to be one-sided. All the moderators in a group looking at complaints seem to me certain to want to do something about those complaints. After all, they are complaints. So a decision, even if it is justified, fails to teach to the rest of us. It fails even if DaBlob talks privately to moderators. I would like to know what DaBlob thinks of all this. I would like to know if he believes himself guilty. I would like to have him tell us what he thinks his "crime" is or if his supporters can see something he doesn't. Because I don't know these things about him, I don't know these things about myself. I don't know if I am going to be just as guilty as he is if a number of people decide to complain about me, while others publicly say nothing or even favor me in isolated comments.

This message is too long. Must annoy the heck out of people.
______________________________

*

So, please keep debating, arguing, and even getting warned for being too aggressive. Doing so shows interest and passion. It furthers the mind broadening experience of others.

**

No, not everyone gets multiple warnings. Warnings are delivered via several means, vms, pms, and in various threads, it can be hard to keep track of them, so the banning may look sudden. Most bans really aren't out of the blue, even if there are no public warnings, there is a rationale that's usually explained when the banning is done. Extended public mod interventions derail threads and create drama, which is less than ideal, dragging it out like that is generally avoided. ...
Usually, the policy disallows returning of the banned members, although exceptions have been made on discretion of certain mods, so it's not entirely impossible, but we prefer it to be an exception, not the rule. It depends, each case is unique.

 

[Duxwing]

@BigApplePi

He was warned in public on at least this occasion.

I find that funerals and wanting to say the right thing is more for the mourners than the one that is dying. Like Cog said, listen and don't allow yourself to get wrapped up in saying the right thing. Often the person dying is the one that has things to say. Perhaps a simple "thank you for the things you done in my life" is good enough.



Don't proselytize. It's one of the reasons you were banned originally. Consider this a warning.

Here is the post that earned him that warning:

"To pass with as few regrets as possible" is a goal still within his reach and ours as well.

Personally, I have invested a great deal of time getting to know the God that others claim does not exist and I think that being faced with one's immanent mortality is as good as time as any to re-examine one's preference to not believe Him, whom so many good people of this world do believe ...

This post was at least a few hours if not a day before his permaban.

-Duxwing

 

[crippli]

I couldn't keep up and had no idea he was a ban candidate even though I should have.

Like Duxwing said to me. You are being much too hard on your self. Da Blob may have seemed a nutcase, but he was no fool. If anything I am annoyed with Da Blob. Because this is more like a suicide, and no one gains. It's bad for Da Blob, bad for the mods, and bad for some of us(who are against bannings). So many warnings. It's hard to argue against that. And there is the policy the mods operate after, so not much they can do either. I suppose what can be done is change the policy, if you can make good enough arguments. I see you have a thread on that, maybe something will come out of that. I'm sure it will be implemented if the arguments are logically sound.

And most importantly, that he is like Jesus. If he could rise from the the dead once. Maybe he can do it again. Da Blob would have wanted us to have belief. Maybe that's all it takes. I am at least going to pray, but not quite yet. And then I'll see what happens.

 

[BigApplePi]

@Da Blob

What do I say to him? He's an atheist (like me),

Personally, I have invested a great deal of time getting to know the God that others claim does not exist and I think that being faced with one's immanent mortality is as good as time as any to re-examine one's preference to not believe Him, whom so many good people of this world do believe ...

It was stated the people are atheists, not God believers. This is a highly emotional situation. Don't you think talking about God is quite risky, especially in public? Now if someone there brings it up, the reaction could be checked out.

I read further down and Cav says this:

Don't proselytize. It's one of the reasons you were banned originally. Consider this a warning.

I don't know what to say to that. A warning is a warning. I think she is saying this is off topic in the sense that the topic is what to say in front of atheists dying. We have to accept that premise. Making a personal statement by you would be okay if posters here would not be distracted. The warning says that in the moderator's judgment (meaning the Forum's judgment) they are. If this were coming from a fellow non-warned poster, they could make a personal statement. Not so if it is judged a no-no by the Forum representative.

I would consider either admitting you were off-topic and or delete the post. Another alternative is to start a thread about the validity of such warnings themselves and see what your peers think.

Freedom of speech is one thing. A distraction to others limits their speech. If you don't take action on this, a ban will cause you to lose freedom of speech. All this is a judgment call.

 

[BigApplePi]

@Duxwing. Excellent example. I had skipped that thread because I don't know what to say in those situations. Perhaps I should have read it just to learn. I'm reading it now.

I responded and here it is: Response to DaBlob about warning.

Thanks Dux.

 

[Duxwing]

Re: What would you want someone to say to you if you were dying?

@Da Blob

It was stated the people are atheists, not God believers. This is a highly emotional situation. Don't you think talking about God is quite risky, especially in public? Now if someone there brings it up, the reaction could be checked out.

I read further down and Cav says this:
I don't know what to say to that. A warning is a warning. I think she is saying this is off topic in the sense that the topic is what to say in front of atheists dying. We have to accept that premise. Making a personal statement by you would be okay if posters here would not be distracted. The warning says that in the moderator's judgment (meaning the Forum's judgment) they are. If this were coming from a fellow non-warned poster, they could make a personal statement. Not so if it is judged a no-no by the Forum representative.

I would consider either admitting you were off-topic and or delete the post. Another alternative is to start a thread about the validity of such warnings themselves and see what your peers think.

Freedom of speech is one thing. A distraction to others limits their speech. If you don't take action on this, a ban will cause you to lose freedom of speech. All this is a judgment call.

*Walks over to BAP and puts a hand on his shoulder, a concerned look on his face* BAP, I know that you miss Da Blob, but he's been permabanned for two days now: He can't hear you. Do you want me to write him a eulogy?

-Duxwing

 

[Jennywocky]

Re: What would you want someone to say to you if you were dying?

*Walks over to BAP and puts a hand on his shoulder, a concerned look on his face* BAP, I know that you miss Da Blob, but he's been permabanned for two days now: He can't hear you. Do you want me to write him a eulogy?

I take it you're not a believer in... resurrection!

[Dum dum DUUUUUUMMMMMM!!!]

 

[BigApplePi]

@crippli. Well I feel bad if only because I know what it's like to be an outsider. It can happen to any of us who dares to take a strong stand as well ... including nutcases. Check out my reply to Da Blob. Even if it is an imperfect reply, I couldn't believe he would refuse to answer. Of course it should be taken to a new thread and I'm probably fool enough not to think of that.

 

[Duxwing]

@Duxwing. Excellent example. I had skipped that thread because I don't know what to say in those situations. Perhaps I should have read it just to learn. I'm reading it now.

I responded and here it is: Response to DaBlob about warning.

Thanks Dux.

As I mentioned in that thread, are you feeling OK? Losing a longtime forum peer can be tough, but talking to him isn't going to bring him back. PM me if his passing is bothering you.

As for the discussion on warnings, I'm glad to have been of service.

-Duxwing

 

[Duxwing]

Re: What would you want someone to say to you if you were dying?

I take it you're not a believer in... resurrection!

[Dum dum DUUUUUUMMMMMM!!!]

I'd laugh, but I genuinely think that BAP is grieving. Posting a response to a permabanned forum member is highly illogical, and given the Ti-core of the INTP psyche, would only be done for illogical reasons; a perfectly capable reason would be grief over losing a longtime friend and peer, which I suspect that BAP has effectively expressed in his argument against Da Blob's banning-- he could be in the grip of Fe.

Any thoughts?

-Duxwing

 

[Jennywocky]

Re: What would you want someone to say to you if you were dying?

I'd laugh, but I genuinely think that BAP is grieving. Posting a response to a permabanned forum member is highly illogical, and given the Ti-core of the INTP psyche, would only be done for illogical reasons; a perfectly capable reason would be grief over losing a longtime friend and peer, which I suspect that BAP has effectively expressed in his argument against Da Blob's banning-- he could be in the grip of Fe.

Any thoughts?

Yes. Publicly analyzing another member who might be grieving in real-time in full view of the forum might be a little much, in terms of how to best respect that person.

Your precociousness is running ahead of you.

That's all I have, gonna quietly sneak out now....

 

[Duxwing]

Re: What would you want someone to say to you if you were dying?

Yes. Publicly analyzing another member who might be grieving in real-time in full view of the forum might be a little much, in terms of how to best respect that person.

Your precociousness is running ahead of you.

That's all I have, gonna quietly sneak out now....

Oh schmuck.

Sorry BAP.

-Duxwing

 

[crippli]

@crippli. Well I feel bad if only because I know what it's like to be an outsider. It can happen to any of us who dares to take a strong stand as well ... including nutcases. Check out my reply to Da Blob. Even if it is an imperfect reply, I couldn't believe he would refuse to answer. Of course it should be taken to a new thread and I'm probably fool enough not to think of that.

True. It is worrying. But such is life, sometimes lightning strikes where you stand. Not much you can do about it. However. When there is bad weather, it usually works fine to seek shelter on lower grounds. Da Blob did after all live in that hut on the top of the hill. I admire that. But rather risky if you ask me. And clearly should have been more careful on what he threw on the village roofs.

I have no idea on what you should or should not do, probably better to ask the moderators, for me it's fine. I don't know if he would have answered either, good thinking though. Generally I don't pay that close attention, only a wanderer. I just read what I find is interesting. And I found Da Blobs posts interesting, on subjects that I had interest in.

 

[NoID10ts]

I don't know why, but I feel compelled to post this clip. Perhaps it's more relevant if you replace the word "Clown" with "Blob"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esJl7MZoVww

 

[crippli]

As a religious scholar, I enjoy an interesting discussion on mysticism. The problem with Da Blob was that he always held a condescending attitude in his social interactions. His "on the hill above the village [looking down on the peasantry]" seemed to be his modus operandi. He was passively rude.

Now, I don't know and can't say whether I feel this was banworthy or not. I've seen many aggressively insulting posts that were similarly condescending. It is a regular occurence for the religious and political discussions on any forum, but since it is a private forum it is at the moderators' discretion on how to regulate it.

As for my honest opinion about Da Blob, I feel sorry for him and I'm a little curious about who he really is and if he had family or friends outside the forum. His attitude, to me, seems to reflect a deep insecurity that he was constantly trying to get validation for. This isn't an unusual characteristic for many people, but it does seem out of place for a person of his age.

I had a hard time buying that he worked as a counselor for a living because it seems so out of place to me. An older gentleman that spent so much time posting condescending remarks about other people's views and simultaneously trying to express and validate his own point of view?

I feel sorry for him. He just seems like a lonely individual to me.

Very interesting. I tend to be a little reluctant to read emotion through text. I know most do though. I remember I once had my brother read out laud a mail. And he read it with all these ups and downs, and brakes and quicker passages. And I was like, wow, what are you doing?, in my head. Maybe he did get the emotional dimension of the post accurate. But no idea how he did it, must have been subconscious, as he did it in real time. I think I just take peoples word for what they say, unless I have reason to believe otherwise. And I did send a PM to B a few weeks ago, mostly actually to find out what stand I should take when this here became real. And I was pleasantly surprised. And decided to give my support. I don't think it's going to count for much, but at least it's on record.

 

[Hadoblado]

I'd like it if there were a third option, like having Blob's interaction limited to a sub-forum "dungeon". I liked the guy, though his single mindedness was off-putting. His insight into psychological issues was often impressive, though I had long since started skipping his theology posts.

Unfortunately for Blob, I think his staunch theistic presence in every thread was actually inoculating otherwise free-thinking people into disregarding his position entirely regardless of origin. Seeing a belief in God turning an otherwise intelligent man into a blunt and holy instrument has certainly made me less tolerant of God.

The mods may even be doing theism a favour?

 

[The Gopher]

Isn't that what they did with face?

 

[Kuu]

Re: What would you want someone to say to you if you were dying?

^ Can we now stop derailing this thread?

Although it was rather...

Spoiler

dead already

 

[MissQuote]

@BigApplePi

I remember Blob posting a link to his facebook at some point, as I remember lurking it a bit one day not too many months ago, and reading a bunch of the 'notes' he had written and posted on there on his ideas and theology and whatnot.

I don't remember where or what thread or how long ago it was, or if this is even sort of creepy of me to suggest (though it can't be too creepy, as it was something he posted), but I suppose if you put in some effort you might be able to find it and have a means of contacting him and discussing things that are bothering you about this with him personally.

 

[MissQuote]

@BigApplePi

He was warned in public on at least this occasion.



Here is the post that earned him that warning:



This post was at least a few hours if not a day before his permaban.

-Duxwing

Am I in a time warp? because I thought that was a rather old thread?

 

[BigApplePi]

@BigApplePi

I remember Blob posting a link to his facebook at some point, as I remember lurking it a bit one day not too many months ago, and reading a bunch of the 'notes' he had written and posted on there on his ideas and theology and whatnot.

I don't remember where or what thread or how long ago it was, or if this is even sort of creepy of me to suggest (though it can't be too creepy, as it was something he posted), but I suppose if you put in some effort you might be able to find it and have a means of contacting him and discussing things that are bothering you about this with him personally.

@MissQuote. I lost ya. Do you mean I should look on facebook? I don't belong to facebook to avoid complicating my life. But my wife does. How or what does one look for? If DaBlob uses a private name, you can PM me. BTW I am able to email him and we have spoken.

 

[BigApplePi]

@Cognisant

If you want I could role play Da Blob for you, I know how he thinks well enough.

I remembered this post you made. I challenge you to play that role for even a few lines. I think I could tell you in one line what you (as Da Blob) were doing wrong.

 

[Jennywocky]

"Name that Blob!"

 

[Cavallier]

I've pulled the BAP/Duxwing/Jennywocky comments out of the thread they were derailing ( What would you want someone to say to you if you were dying? ) and put them in this thread where they belong.

I've also pulled out the original banning comments from the original thread they were derailing ( Do we need our own sanctuaries? ) and placed them here. I have moved the original thread back to it's proper place in the Philosophy Subforum.

Now you all have a chronological list of all comments related to the Da Blob Banning for you to analyze to your hearts content.

@BigApplePi : Please don't derail more threads with your postulations. Keep your analysis to this thread.

I'll add this: Derailing that death related thread (given it's subject matter) was especially self centered and crude BAP.

 

[BigApplePi]

@Cavallier. I was directed to that thread and not knowing what to do, posted there as to supply context. By putting everything on this thread everything is better. I think you are right. That was a sensitive thread and I didn't help any. Thanks for keeping the posts.

 

[BigApplePi]

Hey. FYI guys, I'm talking to DaBlob via email. The subject I had in mind was that of showing respect. By that, I mean respect for all individuals as a whole, not just their views. Not an easy topic for anyone. I've yet to see what he will say.

 

[Fukyo]

BAP, I hope you're not intending to post your email exchange with Blob here? As I know you've already had a long dialogue with another mod about Blob's emails last time he was banned. Honestly, how much input do you need? Maybe stop beating Blob's high horse?


If the answer is yes, please refrain, that'd just mean more trouble - besides of giving a banned member an outlet to indirectly post and use it as a soapbox to manipulatively complain about being wronged and feign ignorance.

 

[BigApplePi]

BAP, I hope you're not intending to post your email exchange with Blob here? As I know you've already had a long dialogue with another mod about Blob's emails last time he was banned. Honestly, how much input do you need? Maybe stop beating Blob's high horse?


If the answer is yes, please refrain, that'd just mean more trouble - besides of giving a banned member an outlet to indirectly post and use it as a soapbox to manipulatively complain about being wronged and feign ignorance.

Oh no. I wouldn't post his private email here. That's private. I only vaguely recall historical prior dialog. If I were to post a DaBlob view, the same as which he was banned for, that would be cheating, wouldn't it? I would be posting objectionable material.

I have a different theory, and it's a theory for which INTP's often stand alone. This is going to be hard to summarize, but I claim DaBlob was banned, not for his religious views, but for the insensitive way he pushed them. He violated a social code. My email with him explains to me why this happened or at least he's trying to explain it. I won't try to stand in with rationalizations for him. What I want to do is to ... sort of ... make peace with events such as they happened.

I do not take the position he was "wronged." Rather that he did something "wrong" and just what was on his mind was hidden to view beyond what already has been said. I don't know how many others feel as I do (a public dressing down perhaps), but I see the majority are okay with the ban.

I hope this makes some sense.

 

[Kuu]

I have a different theory, and it's a theory for which INTP's often stand alone. This is going to be hard to summarize, but I claim DaBlob was banned, not for his religious views, but for the insensitive way he pushed them. He violated a social code.

Uh... Duh? I was rather certain it was clear from the start.

My email with him explains to me why this happened or at least he's trying to explain it. I won't try to stand in with rationalizations for him. What I want to do is to ... sort of ... make peace with events such as they happened.

I have a theory myself: nobody else cares, so could you "make peace with events" in private? Kthnxbai.

 

[Cavallier]

This is starting to get the same vibe that detective shows get when they exhume the body one week after it's been buried. Everyone is pissed off or have sympathy exhaustion about it. Then they find out that the body doesn't have any extra clues and everybody is horrified by the callous attitude of the person who exhumed it.

Its also rather...cruel...to email Blob at this point concerning his banning. He is no longer a member of this forum. The admins including myself have decided that he will not be unbanned. If you care about him you won't give him the false hope of coming back. Obviously, if you want to keep up your relationship outside of this forum then by all means continue it but I and the other admins politely ask that you don't drag it back into this place.

I think we are nearing the time when this thread should be closed. We have discussed Blob's banning for 5 days now. That seems a long enough time to wait for the bell on his casket to ring. He has passed. While his spirit may walk the passages of INTPf his body no longer will.

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTroHBYZirw&feature=player_detailpage

 

[BigApplePi]

Guys. My discussion with DaBlob is not about reinstatement, but rather to him about why he was banned, for his own use. And other non-Forum friendly stuff. My strong impression is he valued many of his informative posts but was planning to leave anyway for a hiatus after he reached a certain point.

If you close this thread* there will be no chance to cover real conflicts about opposing forces. But can I be trusted to do so in a constructive way?
____________________

*Note that if this thread carries no interest it would die of its own accord.

 

[Cavallier]

If you close this thread there will be no chance to cover real conflicts about opposing forces. But can I be trusted to do so in a constructive way?

We don't think you can be trusted to do so in a constructive way. As before see below:

This is starting to get the same vibe that detective shows get when they exhume the body one week after it's been buried. Everyone is pissed off or have sympathy exhaustion about it. Then they find out that the body doesn't have any extra clues and everybody is horrified by the callous attitude of the person who exhumed it.

You are the only one keeping this thread alive. I am closing it now out of respect for the dead.