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Don't pay attention to what others think of you

Rebis

Blessed are the hearts that can bend
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I want to address this phrasing that's commonplace as an invocation of defense. I hear this comment alot
and while I understand the premise: "Don't let others define who you are " this is an easy remark to make it's barely revelating, but I think it ignores the benefit of percieving yourself outside of the ego, interpreting yourself as a separate entity. Perception is what binds us so if we default on self-perception we're not seeing the full picture. Perceptions are fragmented truths, if you're able to interpret what someone thinks about you and try to understand where they're coming from you can gain an understanding of yourself. We indulge in projection of our personality onto others but we don't indulge others interpreting who we are.

The individual's ego is but only half the equation, what you think of yourself is not true if you consider that society exists independently of you. Also, what's so wrong with using a model of someone's perception to analyse yourself? Is the ego so fragile that it can't think of oneself as the bad guy? You hear the age old adage "There's two sides of a coin" or "it takes two to tango", yet when it's applied to ourselves we insist that we are mainly what we understand ourselves to be. People can lie to themselves when they're faced with a difficult realization.

I'm not saying any person with the ability to verbally eject words from their mouth should be considered, what I am saying is there is no harm playing a game of interpretation, take no offence to opinions that infringe on your self-realization, for to take offence is akin to the formation of a self-actualized deity: one that cannot be approached with reason or criticism and their interpretation of the world is irrefutable.

"Universal truth is not measured by mass appeal"
Universal truth is however universal, and it is measured by the cohesion of many independent perceptions, so to approach a better understanding of yourself (going towards truth i.e. irrefutable) you should try to consider the model of reality others live in, and how these truths in their model can help you piece together different opinions of the world.
I think the most common frustration (it surely is for me) is produced from cognitive dissonance: when expectations do not align with reality. The problem with this is of course, we do not see reality as malleable and our understanding of reality confined to what we have already experienced. People expect themselves to be who they are, so they become agitated when someone interprets who they are due to mischaracterization.
 

Rebis

Blessed are the hearts that can bend
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Plus, what's wrong with using a framework to understand yourself? "Good person" "Bad person" "Deceptive" "Disengenuous" "Principled" "Structured" "Unstructured", all of these qualities are the base of a tree, which we branch out the behaviours we exhibit. Everyone creates models for understanding, so on that note why don't we pick up a few different models to understand ourselves?

I know the phrase is used to defend another from a percieved negative opinion, but the statement is so common it is applied to even the slighest of disagreements. It makes the individual impervious of criticism, and their behaviour indiscussable.
 

Perfectly Normal Beast

the storm is here
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I know the phrase is used to defend another from a percieved negative opinion, but the statement is so common it is applied to even the slighest of disagreements. It makes the individual impervious of criticism, and their behaviour indiscussable.
the self-esteem movement is at least partly responsible for this imo

(sry for the lazy post...i am deeply ashamed of how very lazy i am <.<)
 

Rebis

Blessed are the hearts that can bend
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I know the phrase is used to defend another from a percieved negative opinion, but the statement is so common it is applied to even the slighest of disagreements. It makes the individual impervious of criticism, and their behaviour indiscussable.
the self-esteem movement is at least partly responsible for this imo

(sry for the lazy post...i am deeply ashamed of how very lazy i am <.<)
It's just an endless cycle: Switching out the old for the new (which is actually the old-old), maybe we'll get honesty back in the next generation
 

Polaris

Radioactive vision
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I do this quite a lot, trying to see myself as others see me wholistically, and not just as fragments from a situation to situation basis. I make it a sort of game where I try to imagine how one person may see me differently from the next, based on their own perceptions that I may have gained some insight into from interacting with them.

But yes, a lot of these perceptions often don't seem to match my own, and there have been times where level of dissociation has been severe enough for me to doubt which one is true, and then attempting to synthesise these perceptions into one as a sort of remedy, but it can become a rather ego-extinguishing experience in sometimes good -- but depending on mood, sometimes not so great ways.

I guess outcome depends on your attitude and of course, ultimately comes back to ego. I have gone to work some days, determined to not let my ego interfere with my openness to new input, regardless of threat level. Then typically, realising this is just another game the ego likes to play, and thereby frustrating myself

Sorry my thoughts are scattered because I'm supposed to be asleep but find this topic intriguing. I may elaborate more later.
 

Rebis

Blessed are the hearts that can bend
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I do this quite a lot, trying to see myself as others see me wholistically, and not just as fragments from a situation to situation basis. I make it a sort of game where I try to imagine how one person may see me differently from the next, based on their own perceptions that I may have gained some insight into from interacting with them.

But yes, a lot of these perceptions often don't seem to match my own, and there have been times where level of dissociation has been severe enough for me to doubt which one is true, and then attempting to synthesise these perceptions into one as a sort of remedy, but it can become a rather ego-extinguishing experience in sometimes good -- but depending on mood, sometimes not so great ways.

I guess outcome depends on your attitude and of course, ultimately comes back to ego. I have gone to work some days, determined to not let my ego interfere with my openness to new input, regardless of threat level. Then typically, realising this is just another game the ego likes to play, and thereby frustrating myself

Sorry my thoughts are scattered because I'm supposed to be asleep but find this topic intriguing. I may elaborate more later.
It can be exhausting, it's cool to just go with a temporary scaffolded ego as long as you don't use it like the "Negate attack" trap card from yu gi oh, haha

Is your profile picture a demon from the realms of sleep paralysis? I had a scarier-than-usual demon last night, I kept picturing it behind me breathing on me, when i turned around I kept imagining through the mirror in the darkness. It's not scary that I'm shitting myself but you can't sleep knowing that the imaginary presence is behind you because you can't stop thinking about it.
 

Minuend

pat pat
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It depends on a lot of factors. Heck, some people live good lives where they are happy where they do not concern themselves with what others think. Sure, they miss out on "personal growth", but why would they care? They are happy, they might even live lives that are a more positive force and impact than yours.

What you consider ideal or good is not everyone's idea of so.
 

Rebis

Blessed are the hearts that can bend
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It depends on a lot of factors. Heck, some people live good lives where they are happy where they do not concern themselves with what others think. Sure, they miss out on "personal growth", but why would they care? They are happy, they might even live lives that are a more positive force and impact than yours.

What you consider ideal or good is not everyone's idea of so.
I suppose there's truth to what you're saying but the individual in question might cause others difficulties or might not be particularly adept in situations that require proficiency, like a public speaker unable to demonstrate charisma, or a hopeless romantic or a hyperactive child that has big dreams. If you're working as a team and have this as a mentality then it's an assured disaster.

I'm sure people care about personal growth if they are incompetent in fields that they partake in regularly, if you've got that sorted for the most part then yes, I wouldn't labour to fit their ideal variant of yourself.
 

EndogenousRebel

We're all trying our best. Aren't we?
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Is there anyone here between 35-45+/yo? I ask because I'm interested in hearing an older persons perspective (sorry).

I find that people people are victim to the dunning Kruger phenomenon very much in many realms. Much like most people believe they are an above average driver, they think they are good at reading people. This likely leads them to pay attention less than they should. For example if I seem really competent at one thing, they may falsely attribute me to being competent in many things, same with incompetence. They judge unfairly or too quickly. I feel maybe older, or at least smarter people will see past this, and may make more fair assessments. The majority however, is mostly full of shit, and at best will accidentally tell you something useful about yourself.

This being said, I feel that you should indeed care what some people think, especially if they have more experience than you, and especially if it's in certain areas that you would like to improve on. Just find the right people to trust. Life coaches and mentors are a very common thing among successful and ambitious people, because success breads success.

Plus, what's wrong with using a framework to understand yourself? "Good person" "Bad person" "Deceptive" "Disengenuous" "Principled" "Structured" "Unstructured", all of these qualities are the base of a tree, which we branch out the behaviours we exhibit. Everyone creates models for understanding, so on that note why don't we pick up a few different models to understand ourselves?
I think that as long as one is present and aware, in the moment, there is nothing wrong with this, it saves energy to categorize things in a structured way. When an anomaly or outlier comes out, you must be able to identify it and improve your model. In this case I guess paying attention to these things would be apart of your model, and your model should be designed to change with new information, otherwise you're just a computer. This is hard, as I'm sure you know.
 

Rebis

Blessed are the hearts that can bend
Local time
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Joined
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Is there anyone here between 35-45+/yo? I ask because I'm interested in hearing an older persons perspective (sorry).

I find that people people are victim to the dunning Kruger phenomenon very much in many realms. Much like most people believe they are an above average driver, they think they are good at reading people. This likely leads them to pay attention less than they should. For example if I seem really competent at one thing, they may falsely attribute me to being competent in many things, same with incompetence. They judge unfairly or too quickly. I feel maybe older, or at least smarter people will see past this, and may make more fair assessments. The majority however, is mostly full of shit, and at best will accidentally tell you something useful about yourself.

This being said, I feel that you should indeed care what some people think, especially if they have more experience than you, and especially if it's in certain areas that you would like to improve on. Just find the right people to trust. Life coaches and mentors are a very common thing among successful and ambitious people, because success breads success.
Ultimately I think what the common person understands of the dunning-kruger effect is hard to resolve as the world we know is very complex, and the people who're subject to dunning kruger through the sub-disciplines they understand. There'll always be someone better than you, granted you can penetrate the knowledge barrier to get into the top 2-1% quite easily, but from 2-0 or 1-0 are the greatest outliers. People can only conjecture about the world they know so it is hard for them to imagine a world which they don't. Generally I'd only call someone out for the lack of knowledge if they intended to elevate themselves into a sense of superiority by claiming expertise, or equating themselves to influential members of that field.

The key marker depends what the individual does when they're exposed to information that surpasses their own i.e. do they modestly accept their lack of knowledge or do they maintain their ideologue saying the detail is "unnecessary".

Plus, what's wrong with using a framework to understand yourself? "Good person" "Bad person" "Deceptive" "Disengenuous" "Principled" "Structured" "Unstructured", all of these qualities are the base of a tree, which we branch out the behaviours we exhibit. Everyone creates models for understanding, so on that note why don't we pick up a few different models to understand ourselves?
I think that as long as one is present and aware, in the moment, there is nothing wrong with this, it saves energy to categorize things in a structured way. When an anomaly or outlier comes out, you must be able to identify it and improve your model. In this case I guess paying attention to these things would be apart of your model, and your model should be designed to change with new information, otherwise you're just a computer. This is hard, as I'm sure you know.
I think it's straightforward in terms of disassociating the ego, it becomes difficult when you and the person expressing this model are in an angered/aggressive rage. It's easier when emotions are kept to a minimum, that just adds a big processing heap to interpreting the model in question. Can't be analytical with a verocious dog barking in your face now, can you?
 

Animekitty

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Fe types understand a person by statistical observation.
Fi types watch for affect building a self-model of the person.

The difference is that Fe retains composure well Fi feels intense intimate integration.

Thinking what others think of you is the same difference, intimacy, and dispassion.
Emotions usually get overblown in Fi misunderstandings. Yet Fe is less prone to overreact and instead misinterpret.


I think it is a good thing to understand why others think of you. A third-order inference. But it only serves a purpose if you get good at it and not overblow it.

intimacy and dispassion both get caught in baseless thoughts.
 

Rebis

Blessed are the hearts that can bend
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Fe types understand a person by statistical observation.
Fi types watch for affect building a self-model of the person.

The difference is that Fe retains composure well Fi feels intense intimate integration.

Thinking what others think of you is the same difference, intimacy, and dispassion.
Emotions usually get overblown in Fi misunderstandings. Yet Fe is less prone to overreact and instead misinterpret.


I think it is a good thing to understand why others think of you. A third-order inference. But it only serves a purpose if you get good at it and not overblow it.

intimacy and dispassion both get caught in baseless thoughts.
Thankyou for your third-order reference.
 

Perfectly Normal Beast

the storm is here
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It's just an endless cycle: Switching out the old for the new (which is actually the old-old), maybe we'll get honesty back in the next generation
"history is only the pattern of silken slippers descending the stairs to the thunder of hobnailed boots climbing upward from below"

in the coddling of the american mind, jonathan haidt postulates that like our immune systems, our characters are improved by encountering and overcoming difficulties - they are "antifragile". the extended and highly indulgent (yet restrictive) childhoods now common in the west provide insufficient opportunities to develop personal strength and independence from authority figures
 
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