Emotion and Logic

[Renk Fasze]

Emotion and logic do not seem to mix.

One is founded in formula and the other is founded in, well the illogical.

So what happens when someone is equally founded in both?

 

[AlisaD]

I'd say that emotions make the final call on what you will do, while logic is just a tool for rationalizing why it's the best thing to do, and deciding what the best way to do it is.

 

[Renk Fasze]

But how can logic explain something that is illogical? Emotions are for the most part illogical. I won't deny that they can be explained logically to some degree but in their entirety i don't think it is possible...

 

[Ermine]

Emotion and logic do not seem to mix.

One is founded in formula and the other is founded in, well the illogical.

So what happens when someone is equally founded in both?

If you take a look at how the human brain works, it's easy to tell how much emotion and logic have to do with each other. It's also fair to say that emotion is little more than logic that is hardwired into the brain that is so fast that it's very hard to tell what's going on until after the fact. Every emotion has its reason, no matter how primal.

Another thing to consider is how emotion is a "tie breaker" of sorts in logical decision making. It decides a persons priorities, even the logical ones. I remember hearing about a case where a man's hypothalamus (emotions central) was damaged in surgery. He still could reason just fine but there was a huge problem. He couldn't judge between the important and the trivial. This ability is critical and needed for logic/reasoning.

So what happens when someone is equally founded in both? You've got a normal human. Ok, maybe not exactly equal, but the point is that both logic and emotion are highly important.

Also, overall, it seems you're approaching the whole idea from a very "black and white" perspective, when there are so many shades of grey involved.

 

[CoryJames]

Neither emotion nor logic make an individual call, in my opinion. I believe, rather, that the decision is weighed, in a sense (imagine old school scales, those two hanging plates), the scale considering the final "weight" of each side as the objective "weight" of each, which is then scaled according to the relative esteem in which he holds each side of the scale.

 

[AlisaD]

But how can logic explain something that is illogical? Emotions are for the most part illogical. I won't deny that they can be explained logically to some degree but in their entirety i don't think it is possible...

Doesn't have to be a correct explanation. Just a rationalization if you need one.

 

[Fukyo]

For Feeling preference people who skillfully use Thinking, logic is a tool to be used in the service of what they value. For a Thinking preference person, logic is a process that is used to discover what ought to be valued. Same tool or process, but used for different ends.

.

 

[Asshatting]

I'll tell you what happens...you divide by zero.

 

[JarNew]

I believe it's possible to mix emotion and logic.

Why can't one use emotion when dealing with people and beliefs while also using logic when dealing with societal needs and objective matters which emotion is essentially useless for. Cards played properly results in Self Actualization

(it's all a game in the end anyway, most people only have one set of cards which they use to build a fortress. A slight gust of wind from the right direction and the fortress can easily fall. Why build your castle so high? Unless for a vantage point? Why am I looking up at you on top of your castle? Don't you realize every deck has the same amount of cards? Many use their cards for the wrong reason, others use their cards quite well -- but attempt to steal other's decks. Resulting in collapse of their own fortress.)

 

[SpaceYeti]

Logic is the road. Emotion is the car.

 

[Moocow]

Emotions are quite logical, you might just not always know why.


It's much MUCH harder to ignore emotions though.

 

[Cognisant]

Id = Emotion
SuperEgo = Logic

You're the Ego, the poor bastard in the middle trying to serve two masters.
Good luck buddy

 

[CoryJames]

Isn't the Id supposed to be the animalistic, instinctive third of human conscience(Basic drives and whatnot)? Also, I was always under the impression that the Ego was the logical, reasoning third, the middleman so to speak, and the Superego the third responsible for the abstract, intangible portion of thought (which is where I thought emotion felt).

I have always reasoned it out that the individual, the conscious mind to which one identifies himself, the "I" so to speak, is the Ego, which seeks to bring into some sort of agreement the loftier civilized and humane ideals of the Superego with the somewhat necessary, primitive drives of the Id, which does not give ideals any weight.


Have I been mislead?

 

[Cognisant]

Isn't the Id supposed to be the animalistic, instinctive third of human conscience(Basic drives and whatnot)?

Thus emotional.

Superego the third responsible for the abstract, intangible portion of thought

Superego is the landscape of your mind, it's the rules and patterns your ego knows and works with/under, think of the superego like an ant-farm, the ego is the ant, and the id is the ant's mind.

 

[JoeJoe]

Isn't the Id supposed to be the animalistic, instinctive third of human conscience(Basic drives and whatnot)? Also, I was always under the impression that the Ego was the logical, reasoning third, the middleman so to speak, and the Superego the third responsible for the abstract, intangible portion of thought (which is where I thought emotion felt).

I have always reasoned it out that the individual, the conscious mind to which one identifies himself, the "I" so to speak, is the Ego, which seeks to bring into some sort of agreement the loftier civilized and humane ideals of the Superego with the somewhat necessary, primitive drives of the Id, which does not give ideals any weight.


Have I been mislead?

Interesting, that you consider the Ego to be the "I", because the literal translation from German to English for Id, Ego and SuperEgo are it (although the analogous pronounciation by Freud would be eet), I and over-I (or upper-I.

Now to get things clear:

The id comprises the unorganised part of the personality structure that contains the basic drives. The id acts according to the "pleasure principle", seeking to avoid pain or unpleasure aroused by increases in instinctual tension.

It is also unconcious, therefor comprises no emotions.

The Ego acts according to the reality principle; i.e. it seeks to please the id’s drive in realistic ways that will benefit in the long term rather than bringing grief.
The Ego comprises that organised part of the personality structure that includes defensive, perceptual, intellectual-cognitive, and executive functions. Conscious awareness resides in the ego, although not all of the operations of the ego are conscious.

i.e. it has logic/reason.

'The Super-ego can be thought of as a type of conscience that punishes misbehavior with feelings of guilt. For example: having extra-marital affairs'

The Super-ego is mainly unconcious.

Continuing from here, I'd say emotion comes out of the Unconcious (Preconcious?), i.e. Id and/or Super-Ego but can in part be controlled/repressed by the Ego, although the Ego might suppress some emotions because it is under the influence of the super-ego. e.g. you suppress the pleasure at watching a puppy being tortured, because you know/think that it is wrong.

Any psychologists here, that wish to disagree?

 

[CoryJames]

Well what if we think of Superego as a marijuana farm, and I'll the pothead, and we'll just never get around to step three?

Metaphors, helping speed up the process of physio-psychological evolution as of 3 minutes ago.

 

[Renk Fasze]

If logic is the road and the car is emotion then my map is wrong because im in constant conflict between how i feel i should feel and how i think i should feel.

 

[Agent Intellect]

Logic depends on emotion. The orbitolfrontal cortex and ventromedial prefrontal cortex, which is associated with decision making, is also closely associated with the limbic system (emotional systems of the brain). The cingulate cortex, which controls executive functions in the brain, is also involved in emotional forming/processing.

The Somatic markers hypothesis is based on work done with people who have had damage done to the ventromedial PFC. These people have essentially had their emotions removed, making them the sought after "completely rational" person. It takes these people over an hour to decide what color pen they want to use without any emotional input. No matter how logical people think they are, or free of emotional influence, they depend on emotion to make decisions and settle on conclusions.

 

[SpaceYeti]

If logic is the road and the car is emotion then my map is wrong because im in constant conflict between how i feel i should feel and how i think i should feel.

You simply want an off-roader.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Emotions are quite logical, you might just not always know why.


It's much MUCH harder to ignore emotions though.

No, emotions are not logical. There are reasons for them, but that doesn't make them logical.

 

[Renk Fasze]

So how is this area of the brain damaged?

Possible that a highly emotional conflict in life can cause damage?

There was a period of my life where for two years i was in some heavy emotional turmoil, ever since then it seems to me that portions of myself have been "switched off"

No, emotions are not logical. There are reasons for them, but that doesn't make them logical.

Agreed, that is essentially the basis of what i believe.

 

[knightofni]

Emotional responses are triggered differently for all of us, based on how we think... It’s the main reason I turn to things like MBTI… to understand other people’s confusing emotions and choices. Fundamental fears, desires, emotional triggers can be understood… but often not duplicated.


I guess what I’m getting at, is, that certain types of emotional response could be forever objective, given type… it is understandable how it works for others, though, right?

On a side note, advertising and political propaganda combine emotion plus logic a little too well...

 

[Kym]

Could emotion be that which we cannot make logical?
When we feel something and make it reasonable in our heads it ceases to be emotional, but if it continues to be 'unknowable' then it is emotion?

PS. Hi folks.

 

[CoryJames]

Could emotion be that which we cannot make logical?
When we feel something and make it reasonable in our heads it ceases to be emotional, but if it continues to be 'unknowable' then it is emotion?

PS. Hi folks.

Your first post, and you're already contradicting yourself. How discouraging.

 

[Kym]

Haha. Shame that you are so easily discouraged.

Can you enlighten me on the contradiction? (Pretty please)

 

[knightofni]

Your first post, and you're already contradicting yourself. How discouraging.

awww... INTP's are the hermits and observers... wouldn't nonsupportive criticism lead to circle-jerk-ghost-town in this environment?

 

[Kym]

I'm aware that there is usually a 'witty' jerk in every crowd, usually it's me though, so I figured that I'd find ample supply here.

 

[CoryJames]

If you think that I am the "witty jerk" around here....damn. You are in for a rude awakening sugarbuns.

And your contradiction is quite obvious.

"Could emotion be that which we cannot make logical?"
-Somewhat intelligent posit. Unfortunately followed by...
"When we feel something and we make it reasonable..."

I understood your sentiment. I just felt inclined to reprimand you on the less than ideal format in which you stated it.

 

[Kym]

Bugger! Will the witty jerk please stand up?

Hmm, if you understand what I am saying, can you please rephrase in the way it should be phrased? Cheers.

 

[echoplex]

Emotion and logic do not seem to mix.

One is founded in formula and the other is founded in, well the illogical.

So what happens when someone is equally founded in both?

I'm curious, why do you think any given logic-aspiring person values logic? What creates value? Isn't it something irrational?

Or, is it possible to be logical without valuing logic? A computer has no values, it just computes. But 'logical' people usually believe logic is important, which is, in and of itself, an emotional preference, right?

 

[CoryJames]

Bugger! Will the witty jerk please stand up?

Hmm, if you understand what I am saying, can you please rephrase in the way it should be phrased? Cheers.

Sure.

Could emotion be that which we cannot make logical?
When we feel something and make it reasonable in our heads it ceases to be emotional, but if it continues to be 'unknowable' then it is emotion?


Could emotion simply be that which exists in the absence of reason?
When we feel something, it ceases to be emotional and becomes logical when we apply reason.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Sure.

Could emotion be that which we cannot make logical?
When we feel something and make it reasonable in our heads it ceases to be emotional, but if it continues to be 'unknowable' then it is emotion?


Could emotion simply be that which exists in the absence of reason?
When we feel something, it ceases to be emotional and becomes logical when we apply reason.

Emotion is not "absence of reason", it's motivation. If we were perfectly logical beings, we wouldn't actually do anything, because we wouldn't actually care about anything. Emotion provides reason for action, reason for living. It is not logical, but it's not really related to logic in the first place. It's simply part of us. Just like our fingers. Our fingers aren't logical, they're just part of us.

 

[CoryJames]

Emotion is not "absence of reason", it's motivation. If we were perfectly logical beings, we wouldn't actually do anything, because we wouldn't actually care about anything. Emotion provides reason for action, reason for living. It is not logical, but it's not really related to logic in the first place. It's simply part of us. Just like our fingers. Our fingers aren't logical, they're just part of us.

I never questioned the value of emotion, or its purpose. I was simply showing the person another way of phrasing the statement so it didn't look so contradictory. Next time read further back.

 

[SpaceYeti]

I don't have the time to read that much.

 

[CoryJames]

Yea well I don't have time for your milarke.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Everyone has time for my malarkey.

 

[CoryJames]

I prefer my spelling better.

 

[Kym]

Haha. Thanks and

 

[SpaceYeti]

I prefer my spelling better.

You're better at liking your spelling, eh?

 

[CoryJames]

Yes, that is what I explicated, neh?

 

[SpaceYeti]

It sure is, keh?

 

[CoryJames]

Meh...