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Equipment

Anthile

Steel marks flesh
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So, any ideas for equipment like weapons, cybernetics or armour will be discussed in here. Please no stats at first, that will come later.
 

Anthile

Steel marks flesh
Local time
Today, 01:55
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
4,015
Weapons

Rank I

All normal melee weapons fall into this category. Also, all pistols and rifles that work with normal gunpowder.

Feat needed: Basic Weapon Proficiency; Basic Firearm Proficiency


Rank II

Steampowered weapons are a relatively new invention. Basically they are normal weapons with integrated steam engines to inflict much more damage than casual weapons. On the downside they are loud, expensive, need special training and are worthless in special areas like underwater.
The other side of this category are psionic weapons whose nature has been changed permanently with psionics and they can have various effects. They too need special training otherwise the psionic backlash can fry ones brain.
Of course there are pistol and rifle variants of those.

Feat needed: Advanced Weapon Proficiency; Advanced Firearm Proficiency




Rank III

Exotic or experimental weapons. These weapons can usually just be found or rarely bought for vast sums. People who own them won't give them away and their destructive power makes it very difficult to snatch them away from their dead hands.
Since they are mostly unique it is very hard to learn to wield them without killing oneself in the process but if one is sucessful the bearer becomes a bringer of death.

Feat needed: Epic Weapon Proficiency; Epic Firearm Proficiency

 

Artifice Orisit

Guest
Feat needed: Basic Weapon Proficiency; Basic Firearm Proficiency
Feat needed: Advanced Weapon Proficiency; Advanced Firearm Proficiency
Feat needed: Epic Weapon Proficiency; Epic Firearm Proficiency
I'd call them skills, but it works to the same effect either way... you'll see.

Melee Weapons
Concealed: Hidden blades & stuff, useful for surprise attacks.
Special: Tazer, truncheon, chemical sprays, etc.
Daggers: Aside from the obvious, clockwork switchblades & pocketknives.
Short-Swords: Aside from the obvious, shock batons & clockwork stuff.
Long-Swords: Swords, small chainsaw & other very hard to dual wield stuff.
Claymores: Two-handed weapons, chainsaws & sword like stuff.
Heavy: Anime sized weaponry, naturally hard to wield.
Other: Powered gauntlets would be a good example.

Projectile Weapons
Concealed: Hidden pistols & stuff.
Special: Non-lethal & other special effect stuff.
Pistols: Various types of easily dual wielded projectile weaponry.
Mid-Sized: SMGs, shotguns & other hard to dual wield projectile weaponry.
Assault Weaponry: Standard fair two-handed projectile weaponry.
Long Rifles: Sniper rifles, & other high-powered awkward stuff.
Heavy: Mini-guns, bazooka, flame-throwers, etc
Other: A steam-powered Predator's disc perhaps?

Psi-Conduits
Living, empathetic weapons? Psychological props? Crystal based pseudo-science?
I suppose for a psychic a telescope could be used like a sniper's rifle.
Concealed: Unknown
Special: Unknown
Wand: Unknown
Stave: Unknown
Heavy: <- I have no idea what this will be, but I know it'll be cool :evil:
Other: Unknown

Personally I like weapon systems where it's less about getting the next best thing and more about work out exactly which are the best tools for the job and what would best suit the PC in question.
Like in S.T.A.L.K.E.R the player could go off and buy the best gun, the best ammo, then go out into the wilderness and end up ditching it in favour of a good old reliable AK-47. Also in Doom III after getting a plasma-guns and chain-guns, but still using the shotgun, because it was just the best gun for the job.
 

Artifice Orisit

Guest
Feat needed: Basic Weapon Proficiency; Basic Firearm Proficiency
Feat needed: Advanced Weapon Proficiency; Advanced Firearm Proficiency
Feat needed: Epic Weapon Proficiency; Epic Firearm Proficiency
Intrinsic Skills, since I've started altering the attributes.

Rank I
All normal melee weapons fall into this category. Also, all pistols and rifles that work with normal gunpowder.

Rank II
Steampowered weapons are a relatively new invention. Basically they are normal weapons with integrated steam engines to inflict much more damage than casual weapons. On the downside they are loud, expensive, need special training and are worthless in special areas like underwater.
The other side of this category are psionic weapons whose nature has been changed permanently with psionics and they can have various effects. They too need special training otherwise the psionic backlash can fry ones brain.
Of course there are pistol and rifle variants of those.

Rank III
Exotic or experimental weapons. These weapons can usually just be found or rarely bought for vast sums. People who own them won't give them away and their destructive power makes it very difficult to snatch them away from their dead hands.
Since they are mostly unique it is very hard to learn to wield them without killing oneself in the process but if one is sucessful the bearer becomes a bringer of death.
I like the idea of added complexity equalling added difficulty, but perhaps it should also work in reverse; a basic musket may not be a very powerful weapon compared to steam-tech, but if somebody has the skills required to use steam-tech then it should hold true that using a musket should be easy for them, perhaps mitigating the effects of fatigue, pain, etc, when determining one's accuracy. This way there's a good reason to use weapons of lesser complexity (and are likely less powerful) because the player can be assured that they will still be just as usable when he/she is wounded, tired and in pain.

Imagine trying to reload some fancy spring-fed thing when you can't see properly due to blood loss, compared to the same situation with a breach-loader which you don't need to look at while reloading.
 

Anthile

Steel marks flesh
Local time
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Joined
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Weliddryn made an important remark:

[ 02:52:03 ] [Weliddryn] I'm curious.... How are the guns going to compete with the melee weapons?
[ 02:52:23 ] [Anthile] I thought about that
[ 02:52:46 ] [Anthile] I think it is implied that you don't really hit the target
[ 02:53:39 ] [Weliddryn] ?
[ 02:55:58 ] [Anthile] Let's say that you need five shots to kill an enemy.... the first 4 are grazing shots and the last one is fatal
[ 02:57:19 ] [Weliddryn] Ah, the accuracy problem.
[ 03:04:51 ] [Anthile] Any suggestions about that?
[ 03:09:36 ] [Weliddryn] I believe if you do this......
[ 03:09:54 ] [Weliddryn] The weaponry would have to be extremely primitive or you are being unrealistic.
[ 03:10:12 ] [Weliddryn] I find the unrealism irritating in games, personally.
[ 03:10:33 ] [Anthile] Me too
[ 03:11:06 ] [Anthile] How else could you handle guns ?
[ 03:12:16 ] [Weliddryn] They dominated the world for a reason. However, if a society were able to focus on psionics, etc. they may be able to find ways to counter bullets. I've developed with my brother a theory on this.
[ 03:12:56 ] [Anthile] Yeah, but psionic users are rare
[ 03:13:04 ] [Weliddryn] Yes.
[ 03:13:12 ] [Weliddryn] So, the guns will probably dominate.
[ 03:13:19 ] [Weliddryn] Its just the way it goes.
[ 03:13:32 ] [Weliddryn] Get rid of guns and melee weapons will become more useful.
[ 03:13:35 ] [Weliddryn] Either that
[ 03:13:48 ] [Weliddryn] or you delve in the /too/ fantasical.
 

Artifice Orisit

Guest
Yeah, but psionic users are rare
Why?? Why be so limiting in choice?
If one person can do it doesn’t it make sense anyone could, inborn abilities take away from the whole "develop" your character theme. If players have to choose between being psionic and not being psionic well then obviously their going to choose the former. The ability to use one's mind as a weapon should be hard earned through study & discipline, just like how a warrior must earn their strength through physical effort.

The character Races give the players an initial boost in whatever direction they wish to take, but it doesn’t say they can't explore new territory. Sure the Cogites have some serious disadvantages when it comes to using psionic abilities, but that dosen't mean the player can't use them, it means they have to be extra careful when doing so. Of course if one wants to go down the squishy-mage path completely they'd be better choosing a Psionite or Avian.
(Artilects are the exception, but they get some great bonuses for it)

I'm thinking of something more akin to the magic’s in literature, so no fireballs, no energy shields, no-summoning-monster-out-of-the-ether; I'm thinking of something far more subtle. I'm thinking of players their using psychic abilities to attack the minds of their opponents, both in the direct sense and through indirect psychological warfare by using illusions and the like, perhaps even going so far as mind control. Honestly once people start throwing bloody fireballs around everyone either has to be a mage, or inexplicably invincible.

Anyway who said psychic powers aren’t powerful?
Being able to set things on fire is cool, but it's not going to do you much good if your eyes aren’t working, if you've forgotten how to breathe, if somebody is breaking into your mind and literally changing it. How do you attack when friend & foe suddenly look exactly alike, how do you brace yourself against the pain of psychological torture?
What do you do when being attacked in a room full of people and you can't tell who is attacking you?

Sure guns let you kill at a distance, but they're loud and need ammo.
And there's never a guarantee that you're target is actually real, or your enemy.
Swords let you get up close and personal, they let you cause some pain and so see the truth.
Anyway in city streets and under the cover of illusions I imagine almost all combat will be of the melee/gun-fu variety, whereby the guns/swords question is quite irrelevant.

*thinks for a moment*
Actually I don't even know how ranged combat would work, the current combat system in development involves running up to one's enemy as a group and engaging their group.
...I suppose if you didn't do that you could never tell if the enemies you are attacking are real or not; gee what a great way to waste ammo :evil:

In short
Guns < Psychic (ammo wasting, blinding)
Psychic < Sword (illusions aren't effective up close)
Sword < Gun (well, it has the added functionality of range)

Melee weapons can be used to block gun attacks in melee (one assumes that the gunslinger is using their guns to block enemy attacks and as such will have difficulty getting a shot off) and although guns may be reasonably powerful, being hit by a sword is nearly always worse... being hit by a chainsaw is definitely worse. Thus the ability to get one or two rounds off before combat starts is a fairly important ability for the gunslinger... actually, hang on, who said people can't carry both melee and ranged weapons?

What's stopping somebody from balancing out across several attack methods?
Having nine attributes and forcing the player to spread out their upgrades choices encourages exactly this behaviour.
 

Anthile

Steel marks flesh
Local time
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Joined
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Messages
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When we allow that every character can do everything we will just have a bunch of undistinguishable PCs. When we assume that every character is ~20 +-5 years old and finished the basic training for his class, then it is implied that it took so long to achieve that skill level.
In this light, it seems unlikely that a gunslinger suddenly becomes a trained psychic in few months while his comrade needed at least a whole decade hard training to come this far.
The only thing I can imagine is that skills from foreign class cost double skill points or such and thus will learn that much slower.

Personally, I think that roleplaying is about team work and if you make the character system too liberal you will have a lots of munchkins and characters whose background doesn't make sense anymore. It is supposed that characters are proud of what they are doing and they trust in their skills.
It's their philosophy after all.


Psychic powers: That was about the problem that only psychics can really stop projectiles and that most humanoids would be dead with few shots. Even with a high psychic quote like 10% or 20% most people would still be - literally - cannon fodder.

Dual wielding: I thought about making a feat about that though the player has to invest a lots of points in that to use it effectively. In fact, the Monolatrist class was built do be such a character who oscillates between first and second row.

Ammo: You would mean that when they can mass produce firearms that they can mass produce ammo as well.

Subtle psychic powers: Yeah, but who wants to play a subtle mage? Mages are supposed to make the most damage but in return they are the first to die when things go wrong. In fact, the Subjectivist class is built around being sneaky and subtle.


The dichotomy at the beginning was either Cybernetics or Psionics since you can't use both.
 
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