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Hating people for their ignorance

Tannhauser

angry insecure male
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Have you had this experience where you feel a true resentment towards ignorant people, despite them having done nothing wrong to you?

What is ignorance? I am not talking about "this guy has not read Hume therefore this guy is an idiot", I am talking about those kinds of people who can only talk about what they put on their sandwich this morning. It is people who show signs of senility (independently of age) -- a certain lack of mental sharpness and a lack of general curiosity.

I am not particularly proud of this trait, but I have a tendency to judge these people severely. Almost like a true hate -- and to a large extent I dislike the negativity this entails.

Have you had this experience? Is it bad? Is it an INTP-thing? Is it curable? Thoughts.
 

Sinny91

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I have it really bad off and on.

I try to keep it in check.
 

Haim

Worlds creator
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Humankind,welcome.
Love hate relationship I would say.
The thing that can annoy me is when they don't want to learn or incapable of learning.
But that is pretty much most Humankind,so yea.
 

Minuend

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Hating? No. I might get irritated if I'm interacting with someone if it has any negative consequences for me or others, though. Mostly I observe and just see things/ people for what they are, without the feeling of annoyance. The sum of background, genes, illness etc. If I focus more on understanding, judging tends to ease.

I do find in periods with low self esteem and insecurities, feelings of annoyance tends to become more frequent. It can be very easy to get stuck in a "skeptic" mental state where you evaluate everyone harshly and maybe even unfairly.

I guess the same applies to larger scale corruptions and such as well. One thing is the impossibility of caring (feeling) about everything, the other is accepting things as they are (not synonymous with remaining passive).
 
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I love mouth breathers.

They serve me food, built my house, deliver my electricity and gas which keeps me cool in the summer and warm in the winter, pave my roads so I can travel unimpeded, etc etc etc.

I love them when they know their place and are fulfilling their role.

That said, I do hate them when they attempt to pass off their thoughts as intelligent. Or feign to fulfill the role of legitimate thinker. Its like when hairs and assorted strings get sucked up and wrapped around the revolving brush part on a vacuum. Really impedes the efficiency of a system.

Mouth breathers should never have been taught to read, write, or speak for that matter. They are their own worst enemies when they stray too far outside the Sensor plantation.
 

Hadoblado

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I have no problem with them for the most part. It's more like I despise this trait in conjunction with others, such as arrogance, pettiness, or just generally being in my way. My response to a mix of these undesirable traits paired with ignorance or non-engagement is greater than the sum total of my reaction to its parts. It's like my learned patience attains the excuse it needs to make itself absent relative to them, and I often end up being cold or facetious.

There's only a few people I resent in this way outside of any given situation in which they're disadvantaging me. I tend to forgive and forget unless I'm subject to them on an ongoing basis.

When they're just people who aren't that switched on, I'm more than happy to talk to or be around them, though there is a limit to the exposure I'm comfortable with. In my line of work this limit is exceeded and then some, but I still keep myself in check. I have coping mechanisms, turning my curiosity on them and trying to figure them out beyond the superficial side they present with. I also play a secondary game of assisting them and accruing social capital - it's not sycophantic if I don't care what they think, but it makes interactions more tolerable if I'm finding it difficult to cope with extensive exposure. It's like a sandbox for Machiavellianism.

I guess this could be summed up by saying I find a place to put my curiosity while my autopilot gets me through their small-talk antics, but this is only necessary if I'm struggling.
 

EditorOne

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I have a problem because so many of them vote and vote stupid. That's power, wielded stupidly, creating problems for the sentient among us.
 

dair

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Mouth breathers should never have been taught to read, write, or speak for that matter. They are their own worst enemies when they stray too far outside the Sensor plantation.
I agree. I'd be a happier person if you lacked the ability to convey your idiotic mentality on this forum. I'd be forever blissfully unaware of your odious existence.

<3


@thread

I think it's important to differentiate between genuine ignorance and belligerent ignorance. The former is fine and easily remedied, but the latter is the bane of our species.
 
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I have a problem because so many of them vote and vote stupid. That's power, wielded stupidly, creating problems for the sentient among us.
Besides being their own worst enemies by attempting to communicate their befuddled quasi-thoughts via symbols (writing and speaking) and clogging up the written word and air molecule vibrations with their inane blather, voting is perhaps the second most destructive behavior mouth breathers engage in on a regular basis.
 

TheManBeyond

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Besides totally void people, i don't want to believe there are many of them, i think the problem is the lack of mutual interests more than the toast talk. They probably just want to fix the broken link, to avoid what they understand as unconfortable silence, you have to understand them.
Another thing to consider is the fact that not everyone can retain information as well as you even if they had seen, read or watch very interesting stuff, i kinda feel related to this group since my memory is so bad and i might have something to say but prefer to shut up because of the lack of confidence in apparently key details.

To give an example, the other day some friends of mine and me were talking about anarchy protests in athens, partially you only have to observe people's attitudes on the streets, how they dress and overall how the way they act doesn't logically match "their ideals", so you conclude most of them are angry kids wanting to belong somewhere and have fun playing with the police. I'm not saying everyone with these revolutionary ideas are exactly like this but from my observations the majority of them are. This is a topic where you can give opinions without really having to use your memory, avviding historical, political facts and stuff, so there also layers of depthness.
The death of one kid in hands of one idiot policeman hurts and what i retain is a feeling that adds to my comprehesion of human race and helps me to have a better will for changing it, but i don't really remember that much about the incident itself.
So perhaps even if i was really curious about it when i read it, if someone with a large knowledge of history and sociopolitcal stuff comes to me, he might finds me uniteresting. So, it's about the mastery of the topic, who plays the senpai and who the student.
Topics such as the greek language might be kind of uninteresting for me, just because my memory sucks, not because i wouldn't like to learn it, it's just that the amount of effort or focus i have to put for it is too high.
Conspiracy theories or alien civilization, i imagine myself being face to face with sinny91 and being unable to keep her enterteined even if i had read or heard thousands of things in the field. Just because of the same. My brain doesn't retain as much information as i wish it would.
In conclusion i don't think hate will help, you need to understand and put effort to make them listen, it will make both of you more intelligent.
 

Death Wizard

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I feel Like a lone survivor of a zombie Apocalypse. Hoards of willfully ignorant, spiritually dead, religious literalists every where.
 

Yellow

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@DGH, I had to teach myself not to be a mouth breather because I was sick a lot as a child and just got in the habit of breathing through my mouth. It wasn't until someone actually called me a mouth breather and started ridiculing me heavily for it that I even became aware of it. So I've never really understood the hate there.

To the OP, no. I've never really felt hate-hate for relative strangers (but definitely annoyance). People are people, and sometimes people are frustratingly different from us.

Having said that, I get occasional surges of misanthropy with prolonged exposure to the public. I remember a couple weeks ago I was sitting outside a courtroom and I got to overhear a couple of young (20s) "good ol' boy" cousins (I recall their name was Mumford) and a girlfriend go on and on about how tough and cool they are.

They produced an endless stream of contextual racial slurs, incredible ignorance (in general), and grandiose comments. I should mention that they both just happened to have gotten arrested around the same time, and by coincidence were scheduled the same day to enter their guilty pleas and be sentenced to probation.

Anyway, I tried to tune them out, and refrain from thinking about what a horrible waste of existence the three of them were. The highlight of the (literally) hour-long conversation (in which a variety of their local acquaintances also waiting to be sentenced stopped to talk for a few minutes then leave) was the two fellas talking about "that stupid chink fuck" the younger Mumford had allegedly assaulted. At the end of the narrative, his girlfriend supportively, and earnestly, chimed in with, "it ain't your fault you can't read. He shouldn't'a said that."

I didn't know if I wanted to laugh or weep, but it illustrated the almost dispairing frustration I feel being surrounded by people with whom I have almost no common ground.

Annoyed/bitter is a more empowering group of feelings than lonely/disconnected. It's perfectly natural for a person to go straight to those "stonger", anger-like feelings, glossing over the "weaker" sadness-like feelings after prolonged exposure.

It's necessary for emotional defense. However, personally, I try to be brutally honest with myself, and not allow those kinds of embitterments [is that even a word?] to build up. I think they poison the well, so to speak. Misanthropic thoughts happen, sometimes often, but if it's a choice, I'd rather be patient than jaded.
 

Alias

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I try not to hate the ignorant. It does anger me when people are ignorant, and when they're permanently set in their ways, and when people discriminate and hate over illogical disputes, but I try to coexist with humans. I never like to say I hate those people, but I wish they could be a bit less, well, ignorant.

I don't like keeping hate in my heart, but I will admit to feeling like that, OP. I think it's common among out-of-place Intuitives, because no one seems to speak the same language or care enough to listen to you. The best course of action is to be as peaceful as possible, and not to get caught up in feelings of inferiority, isolation, and superiority.
 
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I have no problem with them for the most part. It's more like I despise this trait in conjunction with others, such as arrogance
This^

I have no problem with ignorance, it's the arrogance that I hate.
Most arrogant people I've met were stupid as hell...not surprising since arrogance is a sign of immaturity, and is at odds with desire for constant improvement and learning as these would require humility.
 
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@DGH, I had to teach myself not to be a mouth breather because I was sick a lot as a child and just got in the habit of breathing through my mouth. It wasn't until someone actually called me a mouth breather and started ridiculing me heavily for it that I even became aware of it. So I've never really understood the hate there.
:p Legitimately obstructed airways in the enlightened do not count!
 
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I agree. I'd be a happier person if you lacked the ability to convey your idiotic mentality on this forum. I'd be forever blissfully unaware of your odious existence.

<3
To quote misspelt or basegroove or whoever that was :D:
he will never know he's the most idiotic person in the room
 

Reluctantly

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I've felt a general sense of loneliness when people like that have suggested I should stop questioning and thinking and act like them. These are usually the first people to assume everyone is truly like them and that what's best for them is best for you; this also makes it almost impossible to stand being around them for long periods of time. I probably have a kind of hate for them, but I'm not sure what it is; I think it's more of a wary irritation, but maybe that's a kind of hate.
 

Urakro

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I am talking about those kinds of people who can only talk about what they put on their sandwich this morning. It is people who show signs of senility (independently of age) -- a certain lack of mental sharpness and a lack of general curiosity.
You've pretty well described me perfectly. In fact, it's getting more intense and becoming common for people to assume I'm retarded or something. And some people do get annoyed and pissed off.

As for being angry, I can't stand the feeling either. I envision an untamed beast in chains where once in awhile, it hurls itself around in fury. Grimacing, I hope it doesn't break free.
 

Kuu

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The point of typology is to reach understanding, of one's self and of others. So you can be cured, at least of the anger. But try as you will, you cannot fix them...

Anger is an emotion that I almost never feel anymore. I did use to feel that way when I was younger. I was full of hate and contempt for those people described in the OP. Now I understand it is pointless to be angry at them. Now I am more forgiving, but in a sort of dehumanized, indifferent way; can you fault people for who they are? Can you fault the wind for making you cold? Can you fault the ant for stinging you?

I do feel frustration though, which instead of anger manifests as a feeling of deep disappointment. I hope people would rise above to be better than what I know most are; it's a pity I'm rarely surprised. The knowledge of so much wasted potential hits me like relentless waves breaking on the beach, slowly eroding me until I must retreat to solitude lest I be washed away completely. Often people are weirded out because they expect anger from me and all they get is a forlorn look and a deep sigh.

I try not to be discouraged by this, if only to spite the madness of this world.
 

Grayman

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How much would the smartest person know in comparison to what can be known and fully understood? Maybe 0.01% or is that too generous?

How much time can a person spend reading books and learning while also spending time in relationships a job a spouse and children?

I am more concerned with how people handle their ignorance and less about them being ignorant.
 
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How much would the smartest person know in comparison to what can be known and fully understood? Maybe 0.01% or is that too generous?

How much time can a person spend reading books and learning while also spending time in relationships a job a spouse and children?

I am more concerned with how people handle their ignorance and less about them being ignorant.
says the ISTJ :twisteddevil::D
 

Sinny91

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How much would the smartest person know in comparison to what can be known and fully understood? Maybe 0.01% or is that too generous?

How much time can a person spend reading books and learning while also spending time in relationships a job a spouse and children?

I am more concerned with how people handle their ignorance and less about them being ignorant.
That's the reasoning I use in order to 'keep myself in check'.
 

A_Scanner_Darkly

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Have you had this experience where you feel a true resentment towards ignorant people, despite them having done nothing wrong to you?

Have you had this experience? Is it bad? Is it an INTP-thing? Is it curable? Thoughts.
Not an INTP thing -- I think it's a pretty universally human tendency to compare oneself to others who make you feel smart.

I went out into a public place for the first time in weeks today, and I was struggling with this feeling at a few moments.* It's funny how stupidity permeates a persona so completely -- body language, speech, appearance, et al.

*[I also got a rest-of-the-day headache from exposure to sunlight, anxiety from being in a crowd, and the noise. Elaboration of this is best left to a different thread though.]

Yes, my kneejerk reaction is to feel put-off by them. But I feel this is justified to a good extent. See, I associate delinquency and tendencies to violence with stupidity. I think this is a pretty objectively measurable correlation. Like our primitive ancestors, stupid people look to violence as the go-to problem-solving strategy.

I have had run-ins with gang members in the past, and I wish we would be realistic and just exterminate these people. Some of them are intelligent and there are cases where they quit and reform themselves and use their knowledge to fight crime, but otherwise scum of the earth they are...they behave like baboons, and have minds just as evolved.

Intelligence is curiosity is the desire to know more is the desire to improve oneself. The less you have of that, the more of a waste of space and resources you are, because you're someone who does not improve yourself, and by not improving yourself you are by extension not improving the world---dead weight.

So in conclusion, my prejudice against stupid people is fairly justified.
 

nanook

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speaking of baboons, the documentary 'the look of silence' includes impressive interviews with some specimens. highly recommend.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3521134/reference

Hate is obviously just a projection. If your egoic self image is based on mental powers, you fear the possibility of being fallible and project the fear onto others, in the form of despising their supposed intellectual failures. Most likely they are not as stupid as you think they are and you are much more stupid than you think you are. (Relative not to other people but to the truth of whatever subject you are trying to understand)

Other types don't always consider themselves smart, when they are confident about some judgemental view, they just think that what they see is simple and obvious and therefore accurate and those who disagree must have evil intentions to lie about it.


I used to do both, I accused people of bad intentions and despised them for their stupidity. But on a good day i can see that the universe is a mechanically evolving place and i can integrate my feelings. They tell me how i want to act, not what things are. Not even that my actions are "right".

I do get angry when i imagine the destructive outcomes of stupid judgements.

For instance people who have a habit of destroying the life work's value of another person in a single critical sentence have it coming. My father was a very critical type, unable to ever appreciate something, to not suggest pointless improvements (best case scenario), just so he could experience himself as the smartest most valuable person in the room. I'm very impatient with this temperament.

I want to stop it from destroying to me/my world.
There is tons of anxiety and powerlessness mixed into this anger.
 

WALKYRIA

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I guess you are speaking about the spineless sensors?
Per the philosophy of NF egalitarian MBTI, these people deserve all the love and are as valuable(actually more valuable since they'll work more for society) as you are.
You can't hate or confont since love is the answer and that we are all connected lol. If you begin to hate, chakras will be wrong and you'll become unbalanced and unhappy. Think positively and you'll have a good relationships, and you'lll even get a girlfriend if you'r lucky ya knew.
It seems that the feeling of resentment and hate is forbidden in our society... Have you ever worked with a resentfull person? Horrible....
SO unless you'r entitled to be completely independant( you'r your own boss; a true loner) , hate, analytic mind, critical mind, all the ingredients of Ti must be repressed or used in a societal acceptable and constructive way.


There is a subtle way with wich our society is manipulating and controlling us... but hey that's life I guess.

Is hate, frustration and resentment such a bad thing? It seems that our society believes so.

:rip: to reason !
 

ProxyAmenRa

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Have you had this experience where you feel a true resentment towards ignorant people, despite them having done nothing wrong to you?

What is ignorance? I am not talking about "this guy has not read Hume therefore this guy is an idiot", I am talking about those kinds of people who can only talk about what they put on their sandwich this morning. It is people who show signs of senility (independently of age) -- a certain lack of mental sharpness and a lack of general curiosity.

I am not particularly proud of this trait, but I have a tendency to judge these people severely. Almost like a true hate -- and to a large extent I dislike the negativity this entails.

Have you had this experience? Is it bad? Is it an INTP-thing? Is it curable? Thoughts.
This is a problem with yourself rather than the people you find ignorant. You may venting your personal frustration on others. To live well you should provide a degree of unconditional respect and love to everyone and not judge harshly. A humans are flawed and it is a forgivable transgression.
 

louiesgonnadie

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It's fine to feel annoyed by others, but once you let those feelings turn into judgements, that's where it becomes an issue. You also have to recognize it might just be your opinion. Some people just aren't that smart, it doesn't always mean they don't mean well.

This is a problem with yourself rather than the people you find ignorant. You may venting your personal frustration on others. To live well you should provide a degree of unconditional respect and love to everyone and not judge harshly. A humans are flawed and it is a forgivable transgression.
^ This.
 

Minuend

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You've pretty well described me perfectly. In fact, it's getting more intense and becoming common for people to assume I'm retarded or something. And some people do get annoyed and pissed off.
Reminds me; I don't think we're always capable of separating intelligent and capable people from those who put on an act to blend in. Thinking in terms of ignorant vs not-ignorant could create a perspective where we put people in categories depending on our perspective on what a non-ignorant person should be, while other complex and more nuanced factors goes unchecked.

--

Labeling them as mouth breathers, zombies and the like is going too far and is putting oneself on an infallible pedestal and reducing everyone else to extremes where a person is either completely stupid and useless or fully competent in every aspect. Like the evil villain from a kid's show who is either good or evil. And why is he evil? Because he's the villain. And why is he the villain? Because he's evil. (That being said, villains in kid's more often seem to have somewhat more complex motivations these days).

This is not only problematic in terms of your attitude toward -zombies-, it can also make one overestimate people seen as -competent-. Then they may more easily take advantage of their perceived godliness and trust where they manage systems poorly, manipulate and destroy for own gain.

And yes, you could question whether this applies to labeling people as ignorant as well.
 
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Labeling them as mouth breathers, zombies and the like is going too far and is putting oneself on an infallible pedestal and reducing everyone else to extremes where a person is either completely stupid and useless or fully competent in every aspect.
yeah and this is exactly the kind of attitude i was referring to in my earlier post.

i find it difficult to understand self-importance. its just too surreal...the amount of delusion you would have to feed yourself in order to get there. when you are fleeting and there's only so much you can hope to understand within the scope of your lifetime, how can you not realize your insignificance?
its this kind of people that i cant stand, they are seriously a poison and i filter them out of my life whenever possible. as i said before...self importance implies stagnancy...
 

The Gopher

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:p Legitimately obstructed airways in the enlightened do not count!
It's probably been already mentioned but it seems, easy, to hate people without first asking why. I don't hate anyone I understand and I shouldn't hate anyone I don't understand.

When people say "I don't know how anyone could do that" about tragedies and terrorism or murder or eating with your mouth open with by far is clearly the worst... sorry I got side tracked. When people say they "can't understand why someone would do that" that is precisely the reason people do that.

Not to say understanding is the solution to problems if anything it causes more apathy than positive action. Well that apathy and lack of empathy was there to begin with it was just overruled by anger and motivation.

Maybe I should be in the Paris thread. I did write a post just never posted it.
 

Urakro

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The brain always tries to work as efficiently as possible. It only has so much power it can expend and limited data storage. Going beyond those limitations just causes it stress. It has built up a certain amount of readily accessed algorithms adapted for the high priority conditions of it's perceived environment, and defaults to those. Rebuilding those algorithms can be risky, takes more processing power, and feels against the grain. Each learning requires a sacrifice of another, most preferably the more unimportant pieces of data.

When someone explains what they put on their sandwich, it really signifies attempted small talk. Small talk often takes the form of meaningless truisms and it's the type of communication with the least depth. Even if mind-bogglingly numb, it can serve the purpose of making two people more comfortable with each other. At least, it signifies that the person is open for communication.

Sometimes, small talk doesn't move on to more meaningful subjects. I think it's a little like testing the waters, a safe trial and error with the other person. Even if the topic is boring, there is still a huge wealth of non-verbal information about how the other person is feeling and reacting. I guess people use it as a benign prod and picking of another's characteristics.

Putting myself in too much isolation, my people skills are as good as dead. Because that experience has been replaced, I find I have to relearn the whole process again, which causes an overwhelming workload on my brain. The strong-minded people with no obvious flaws are the worst. I generally feel more open to those with vulnerability, and am able to relax and empathize with them. It's hard to find because everyone hides their weaknesses very well.
 

Blarraun

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Hatred is undeserved most of the time, rather it signifies a problem with the person finding others despicable.

I tend to feel disappointment instead, however I understand how many various life circumstances and pasts can result in ignorance and how many times I found myself imperfect.

I genuinely believe in atonement and improvement. I believe humans can become better than what they currently are. I wish to improve myself and I wish that for others as well. To that end, I'd rather have the resources and desire to help others out when it's possible and be around others who can do the same for me. For all our failures I think at least some advancement is possible if people want to see reality for what it is and show humility.

It's the callousness and presumption that annoy me, actions of the ignorant people that may be damaging result from their faults, actions of the arrogant while they are aware is their choice and the wrath they incur is deserved.
 

QuickTwist

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I feel Like a lone survivor of a zombie Apocalypse. Hoards of willfully ignorant, spiritually dead, religious literalists every where.
I don't believe anyone is "willfully ignorant".

How much would the smartest person know in comparison to what can be known and fully understood? Maybe 0.01% or is that too generous?

How much time can a person spend reading books and learning while also spending time in relationships a job a spouse and children?

I am more concerned with how people handle their ignorance and less about them being ignorant.
What exactly constitutes as ignorant is, to me, a mystery. For every 10 people that you are smarter than, there is a given number of people who are smarter than you.

Not an INTP thing -- I think it's a pretty universally human tendency to compare oneself to others who make you feel smart.

I went out into a public place for the first time in weeks today, and I was struggling with this feeling at a few moments.* It's funny how stupidity permeates a persona so completely -- body language, speech, appearance, et al.

*[I also got a rest-of-the-day headache from exposure to sunlight, anxiety from being in a crowd, and the noise. Elaboration of this is best left to a different thread though.]

Yes, my kneejerk reaction is to feel put-off by them. But I feel this is justified to a good extent. See, I associate delinquency and tendencies to violence with stupidity. I think this is a pretty objectively measurable correlation. Like our primitive ancestors, stupid people look to violence as the go-to problem-solving strategy.

I have had run-ins with gang members in the past, and I wish we would be realistic and just exterminate these people. Some of them are intelligent and there are cases where they quit and reform themselves and use their knowledge to fight crime, but otherwise scum of the earth they are...they behave like baboons, and have minds just as evolved.

Intelligence is curiosity is the desire to know more is the desire to improve oneself. The less you have of that, the more of a waste of space and resources you are, because you're someone who does not improve yourself, and by not improving yourself you are by extension not improving the world---dead weight.

So in conclusion, my prejudice against stupid people is fairly justified.
Stupid and violent are not synonymous. Might want to look into the word malevolent. That is a word that is much harder to categorize people by their intelligence.

Labeling them as mouth breathers, zombies and the like is going too far and is putting oneself on an infallible pedestal and reducing everyone else to extremes where a person is either completely stupid and useless or fully competent in every aspect. Like the evil villain from a kid's show who is either good or evil. And why is he evil? Because he's the villain. And why is he the villain? Because he's evil. (That being said, villains in kid's more often seem to have somewhat more complex motivations these days).
I fully agree with this.



Being a person many people would consider to be "ignorant" I have some things to say. When has knowing more about a particular subject ever justified feelings of malcontent towards the person who knows less? If anything it should induce feelings of pity. What exactly gives people the right to hate a less astute learner? Why is intelligence a thing that should dictate what value a person has in society? I would argue that the person who makes small talk is the person looking for some common bond - something to share in however misplaced that sentiment is. To judge a person for sharing part of their life with you seems illogical being the social beings that we are. I'd also say hatred does not have the means to join bonds, but only to destroy them. If you are to hate the people of a less inquisitive disposition than yourself, when will the hatred end? For when are people truly on an equal playing field when it comes to solely what they know about the world. People are full of perspective and what makes one person knowledgeable, does that truly necessitate ignorance of another?
 
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When has knowing more about a particular subject ever justified feelings of malcontent towards the person who knows less? If anything it should induce feelings of pity. What exactly gives people the right to hate a less astute learner? Why is intelligence a thing that should dictate what value a person has in society? I would argue that the person who makes small talk is the person looking for some common bond - something to share in however misplaced that sentiment is. To judge a person for sharing part of their life with you seems illogical being the social beings that we are. I'd also say hatred does not have the means to join bonds, but only to destroy them. If you are to hate the people of a less inquisitive disposition than yourself, when will the hatred end? For when are people truly on an equal playing field when it comes to solely what they know about the world. People are full of perspective and what makes one person knowledgeable, does that truly necessitate ignorance of another?
beautifully said
i heartily agree
 

A_Scanner_Darkly

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speaking of baboons, the documentary 'the look of silence' includes impressive interviews with some specimens. highly recommend.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3521134/reference...
Thanks, although the Wiki page is more informative. Looks interesting...

I was obviously just venting, but for the most part agree with the more enlightened posts here.

I'm just going through a process where I'm beginning to allow myself to be human once again. I'm accustomed to being the voice of reason among the people I know, but recently have gotten fed up with the pressure, disconnect with the self, and messiah-complex that tends to come with playing such a role. It's human to feel transitory hatred for the perceived people who make this world so far removed from what it could be, so I'm allowing myself to feel that and other emotions again. It's been a while. Doesn't mean I put much stock in them beyond the moment.

Also, think the working definition of ignorance/stupidity varies quite a bit among posters on this thread, so part of the message gets lost in transmission.

Alas...

Stupid and violent are not synonymous. Might want to look into the word malevolent. That is a word that is much harder to categorize people by their intelligence.
That is more accurate, yes. I just find the possible link between stupidity/ignorance and malevolence to be interesting, perhaps worth exploring.
 

Brontosaurie

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It's better to ignore people for their hatred than to hate people for their ignorance. Ha ha ha.

 
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The brain always tries to work as efficiently as possible. It only has so much power it can expend and limited data storage...
Not true. The brain has unlimited storage capacity. Well, for the relatively intelligent anyways.

The brain has a hard drive and RAM.

The brain's hard drive has unlimited storage.

The brain's RAM is what limits the number of variables that can be juggled at any given time. For most relatively intelligent people its 6 to 7 pieces of information.

I like this definition of intelligence from F. Scott Fitzgerald:

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function" (on managing Ambiguity and Paradox)
 

Brontosaurie

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Really though...

Hatred is undeserved most of the time, rather it signifies a problem with the person finding others despicable.
...That is unless one's hate is continuously refined and routinely calibrated. If you shun your hate thinking it's an undeserved emotion, it will get no exercise and of course it will stay incompetent and keep bugging you in stupid immature directions. You will sit around hating someone because of his dialect or whatever while failing to pretend that this unjust emotion isn't occurring and it will all suck. On the other hand if you embrace, hone and practice your hate, it will grow stronger, it will stop giving a shit about someone's dialect and other entry-level disturbances and it can be aimed at real evils deserving strong opposition.

The world has many things for which hate is not only understandable, nor only acceptable, but rational and perhaps the only rational stance. One of these things is people who are wrong on the internet. :D

Hate is the catalyst of bullshit penetration. An absolute necessity. Life without hate would be pointless. I do agree that feeling unwarrented hate is suboptimal, but the solution isn't to feel bad about hating and try to stop hating, though. There are no reasonable things you can tell yourself to make the hate go away and become a robot. The solution is to grind the hate and give it some nice gear.

People who go out of their way to seem neutral and not dislike anything because it appears more intelligent... Well that's a characteristically immature Ti-dom thing tbh.
 

QuickTwist

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Not true. The brain has unlimited storage capacity. Well, for the relatively intelligent anyways.

The brain has a hard drive and RAM.

The brain's hard drive has unlimited storage.

The brain's RAM is what limits the number of variables that can be juggled at any given time. For most relatively intelligent people its 6 to 7 pieces of information.

I like this definition of intelligence from F. Scott Fitzgerald:

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function" (on managing Ambiguity and Paradox)
The brain can hold 2.5 petabytes. That is a finite number my friend.
 

J-man

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I am more triggered by people who fill their heads with all kinds of 'knowledge' that isn't grounded in anything real, and think they're better than others for it. Just because someone isn't in touch with your ideas doesn't mean they're braindead.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/sheeple.png
 

Death Wizard

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Reminds me; I don't think we're always capable of separating intelligent and capable people from those who put on an act to blend in. Thinking in terms of ignorant vs not-ignorant could create a perspective where we put people in categories depending on our perspective on what a non-ignorant person should be, while other complex and more nuanced factors goes unchecked.

--

Labeling them as mouth breathers, zombies and the like is going too far and is putting oneself on an infallible pedestal and reducing everyone else to extremes where a person is either completely stupid and useless or fully competent in every aspect. Like the evil villain from a kid's show who is either good or evil. And why is he evil? Because he's the villain. And why is he the villain? Because he's evil. (That being said, villains in kid's more often seem to have somewhat more complex motivations these days).

This is not only problematic in terms of your attitude toward -zombies-, it can also make one overestimate people seen as -competent-. Then they may more easily take advantage of their perceived godliness and trust where they manage systems poorly, manipulate and destroy for own gain.

And yes, you could question whether this applies to labeling people as ignorant as well.
Generally, people seem able to make objective judgments when comparing upper arm strength, running speed, sexual prowess, wealth acquisition and management and the like. However, when the relative intelligence and knowledge of people are compared all of a sudden it is an issue of a sensitive nature and we most all turn the other cheek. Making the objective observation that person A knows less and refuses to learn compared to person B does not correlate with Person A being inferior in all respects. Nor does being more informed suggest infallibility. The dichotomy of ignorance/non-ignorance does not reflect a judgement on a person wholly, but solely on cognitive function. I a sure many willfully ignorant people are Superior to me in many respects, like bouncing a ball around but I won't suppress my bitterness in feeling alone in spirit.
 

Sinny91

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I don't view myself as anything special. I'm well aware that for every jackass who I mentally outstrip, there are millions who have come before me , live presently, and will come after me, who mentally, spiritually and morally outstrip me...

But the *political* and *moral,* ignorance of the masses are the things which strike up the most resentment and hate within me.
For obvious reasons I'm sure.

Yesterday I found my self completely pissed at and resenting some random INTP chick on my social media. I followed her 'blog' upon first discovery of MBTI and before I ever came here.

I was impressed by her, she seemed/s smart funny and confident..
She's an avid 'feminist' which is the only aspect I shy away from..
I mean I'm all for feminism.. but I want to listen to then 'harp on', about as much as I want a spider crawling over my face.

Anyway so she makes a post and it's all like:

"so I can see lots of people on my social media discussing the middle east and our politics and stuff. I'd just like to say that I personally do don't know anything about what's going apart from what Uncle Same is 'telling us'.. But I just wanted to tell you that there's nothing wrong is saying 'I don't know what going on', rather than spreading misinformation".

Now about the 'misinformation', I agree. Don't open your mouth if you don't know what your talking about, it will save the damage being caused.

However, this is an avid feminist, a pedlar of Civil Rights movements, she has various side interests which range from writing kids stories to reading the Satanic Bible for 'lulz'.. and yet she obviously don't think that learning about her countries foreign policy is a worthwhile endeavor, or a muvafucking priority.

Beggars belief.

All it takes is one wrong bomb to go off, cause and effect, and we teeter on the brink of WW3. Not going to need those bloody civil liberties if we're all bloody dead now are we?!.
 

Tannhauser

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Being a person many people would consider to be "ignorant" I have some things to say. When has knowing more about a particular subject ever justified feelings of malcontent towards the person who knows less? If anything it should induce feelings of pity. What exactly gives people the right to hate a less astute learner? Why is intelligence a thing that should dictate what value a person has in society? I would argue that the person who makes small talk is the person looking for some common bond - something to share in however misplaced that sentiment is. To judge a person for sharing part of their life with you seems illogical being the social beings that we are. I'd also say hatred does not have the means to join bonds, but only to destroy them. If you are to hate the people of a less inquisitive disposition than yourself, when will the hatred end? For when are people truly on an equal playing field when it comes to solely what they know about the world. People are full of perspective and what makes one person knowledgeable, does that truly necessitate ignorance of another?
Well, to give you an example: certain relatives of mine have clear racist viewpoints. Do they hold these views because they are well-informed on the subject and have a wide range of experiences with interacting with people of difference races? No -- it is because they are ignorant. In order to think about such topics with any degree of sophistication, one needs a certain intellectual sensitivity, a sensitivity to other viewpoints, and a certain minimal ability of abstraction. These people do not have that. This ignorance, when it is consistently carried by a person throughout their years, makes this person completely impossible to communicate with -- especially about their viewpoints.

The idea of tolerance, and that we all should live happily together, is certainly a fell-good thing to say. But I think my world-view is such that tolerance should not be extended to ignorance. In my view, ignorance is the root of all misery and evil. That is probably the reason for my deep resentment towards ignorance -- even when one does not see any immediate negative consequences of it.
 

Jennywocky

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Anyway so she makes a post and it's all like:

"so I can see lots of people on my social media discussing the middle east and our politics and stuff. I'd just like to say that I personally do don't know anything about what's going apart from what Uncle Same is 'telling us'.. But I just wanted to tell you that there's nothing wrong is saying 'I don't know what going on', rather than spreading misinformation".

Now about the 'misinformation', I agree. Don't open your mouth if you don't know what your talking about, it will save the damage being caused.

However, this is an avid feminist, a pedlar of Civil Rights movements, she has various side interests which range from writing kids stories to reading the Satanic Bible for 'lulz'.. and yet she obviously don't think that learning about her countries foreign policy is a worthwhile endeavor, or a muvafucking priority.
I'm actually a little confused by your response, as what you are saying she said isn't what she said and you seem to be assuming her motivations here in the most negative connotation possible.

She said that it's okay to admit you don't know something, versus spreading misinformation. She didn't even say she agreed with Uncle Sam.

Maybe she has posted other shit to your feed that provides you with more context that I have, but I don't have an issue with someone saying "they don't understand" something versus making up shit or buying into someone else's shit so that they seem to have an informed view on something they have no clue about. My take on it is that's all she was saying. Social media feeds also suck in terms of people posting volatile crap that gets into other people's feeds. I'd probably be telling people to back off as well and trying to keep the tension down; not everyone uses social media to promote their political and ethical views.

Also, there's a lot of stuff to learn in the world, and some people have a pretty high standard for themselves before they consider themselves "informed." There's only so much time going around and so much energy resources to spend on the stuff that matters to you. So yeah, fine, you'll judge her on not knowing as much about the Middle East as you think she should know; whatever. Most people actually are focused on the stuff in closer proximity to their interests and culture simply because it's the stuff they deal with daily. I've been curious about Middle East dynamics but haven't really begun to dig into it deeply until now, because it seems to be becoming more and more relevant regardless of where one lives; yet it's a pretty intense topic because of all the misinformation, all the vetting of sources you have to do, etc., just to make sure you're even getting valid info. (Then again, that also is not a concern to some people.)
 

Sinny91

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I was agreeing with her notion of "best not to speak out of place".

But then went on to express my personal frustration/resentment of where her interests lie **... Of course it's not that 'big a deal' to me personally anymore. But thats an example of the fleeting emotions I get in relation to the OP.

**Baffles me how someone so smart could be so aware in regards to civil rights, but not human rights. Others may not be baffled by this, but I am.

And I agree, no good comes from only seeing the negative in another individual. Oh and I did paraphrase what she said, but she indicated some skepticism of Uncle Sam.. Credit where credit is due.

But my gripe is with Western civilians ignoring their governments foreign policy whilst genocide is being committed in OUR names.
It's amazing how few people are bothered by mass murder.
 

QuickTwist

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Well, to give you an example: certain relatives of mine have clear racist viewpoints. Do they hold these views because they are well-informed on the subject and have a wide range of experiences with interacting with people of difference races? No -- it is because they are ignorant. In order to think about such topics with any degree of sophistication, one needs a certain intellectual sensitivity, a sensitivity to other viewpoints, and a certain minimal ability of abstraction. These people do not have that. This ignorance, when it is consistently carried by a person throughout their years, makes this person completely impossible to communicate with -- especially about their viewpoints.

The idea of tolerance, and that we all should live happily together, is certainly a fell-good thing to say. But I think my world-view is such that tolerance should not be extended to ignorance. In my view, ignorance is the root of all misery and evil. That is probably the reason for my deep resentment towards ignorance -- even when one does not see any immediate negative consequences of it.
OK, shoot. How do we rid the world of ignorant people? What makes one person ignorant and one person knowing? Certainly you can't think one person has all the correct answers can you?
 

Tannhauser

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OK, shoot. How do we rid the world of ignorant people? What makes one person ignorant and one person knowing? Certainly you can't think one person has all the correct answers can you?
Not sure where you are going with this. That everyone is entitled to being correct, independently of whether they know how to generate rational views?

(If you ask purely rhetorical questions, I answer with purely rhetorical questions ;))
 

QuickTwist

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Not sure where you are going with this. That everyone is entitled to being correct, independently of whether they know how to generate rational views?

(If you ask purely rhetorical questions, I answer with purely rhetorical questions ;))
It wasn't rhetorical ;) I mean seriously, how do you rid the world of ignorance? Do you have any idea how many people have no idea about Moore's law or any other number of concepts that the "common folk" have no idea about? Do you really think there are that many people who have no common sense (which is completely different than book smarts obviously)? At this point I don't know if your point is that people who are not educated are a problem to society or not. If you have a fanfreakingtastic idea on how to educate half the population of the world with things so that they are no longer ignorant I'm all ears...
 
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