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How the fuck do I get out of existential crisis? I want to start living MY LIFE.

louiesgonnadie

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This is an update to this thread I posted a year ago: http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=21434

Thanks to escapism, I didn't make any progress in the past year. Now, that I find I'm unable to escape any more, I realize I need to get shit together PRONTO. There are still lots of parallels to my situation last year which prompted me to make that thread; including depression, not comprehending anything because of the chaos in my head, the anxiety surrounding not being able to comprehend anything, and not having any experience with the world (essentially I'm having to make a leap from childhood to adulthood, without the bridge 'teenhood'). However, the difference between my situation now and it last year is the excessive worry about the possible Aspergers/Autism scenarios. It still scares me, but as long as I achieved what I set out for, I'm satisfied and could give two fucks. I wouldn't say I'm in such an existential crisis so much as in a really bad anxiety situation that severely affects the way I'm living life. I don't know how to break free from it.

Like I said, I need to start building my life NOW. But because of a few issues, like not having any RL experience, because of living inside my head for the past 6-9 years, I don't have the experience to foster success in accomplishing my goals, and I have to catch up to where I should be (and/or want to be) for my age which could possibly take years. For example, wanting a long-term relationship but not having any experience at all in dating. The reason why I'm posting this thread is because I don't know where to start. Because of how little experience I have, I cannot take advantage of opportunities, groom interests, or relate to people. I don't know what to do first in the process of growing.

This will be a condensed version of my situation. Here are my main goals.

Eliminate anxiety and find stability. These are both separate, but they go hand in hand. The anxiety prevents me from focusing on anything. Because of this, I can't concentrate or generally comprehend anything. No brain structure, scattered thoughts and feelings. It keeps me inside my head. Whenever I'm involved in a new hands-on task, no matter what it is, I cannot comprehend it for the life of me and fuck up on several tries in the most retarded ways. if you were to observe me, without knowing nothing else about me, you'd think I'm slow. It also affects how I communicate, which is scattered and non-linear.

This has been THE THING that prevents me from making any progress and has made my life a living hell the past 6 years. This HAS to stop if I want to move on in life. But I'm not sure how to quickly eliminate these brain conditions besides drugs, which of course I know nothing about.

Now the stability thing. This is mainly where I'm not sure where to start. Obviously I don't have it now. I have the real world perspective of a 12 year old, because of living inside my head the past 6-9 years. Because of this, I don't know the fundamentals about anything. I also haven't worked, driven, and still live at home. This affects how I relate to others and my understanding of the world. I need to cram information in pronto if I want to catch up to my age -- BUT I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO FUCKING START!!!

There is one other goal which is kind of arbitrary but has been something that I've, at times, almost obsessed over ever since I was a child, which leads me to believe that I'll never feel differently about this. So I have no choice but to listen to my heart and go for it.

Long Term Relationship. I've always wanted a young long-term relationship/marriage/etc. At 21 years I am still fairly young but getting close to the end of my youth (mid-late 20s). Now I'm not saying settling down right away is essential. But I've always been fascinated with the idea of growing/evolving with someone starting at a young age. I want to get this done within the next 2-3 years. You might have to say I should accept not ever having a young relationship because of my really inadequate situation. But given that I am alive, in an arena (earth) where technically the sky is the limit, I say why the fuck shouldn't I try? There are other details about this, but I'll leave it at that.

So where do I start when it comes to finding stability? Am I really that behind in life? I can self-teach myself things I missed over the internet, right? Should I just go straight for the hobby route? Is my lack of real life experience going to fuck me over, and force me into a prison for several years fixing myself? Is my lack of social experience going to prevent me from finding a partner quickly after I find stability? Can I catch up quickly, even if I am not that intelligent?

I want to ask you in particular since you people made a decent effort in my previous thread: @Minuend @Animekitty @EyeSeeCold @cheese @Kuu And yeah I realize I got some good advice on the last thread, but again, there is a big difference in focusing on my problems compared to last year - it was all about possible autism before, but now it's about breaking free from anxiety-ridden thought patterns and not knowing where to start as far as building my life. Because of that I feel like the feedback/advice leaned a bit towards autism and stuff rather than my position in life.

Also, I tried to make this non-TL;DR but I'm not sure if I successfully did plus I feel the way I summarized my situation was awkward. Here is a longer version of my situation if this all seems vague: http://pastebin.com/TsEcjSTe

Awaiting feedback, thanks.
 

onesteptwostep

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A relationship isn't going to solve all your problems.

Also,

A strong relationship with your parents usually helps with kinds of issues- maybe you should call them up and see them sometime. You know what they say.. "In the beginning.."

If all fails there's the getting wasted while eating steak route. (b'-')b
 

louiesgonnadie

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A relationship isn't going to solve all your problems.
This is not what I meant at all.

I just want to have the experience. It sounds emotionally adventurous and thrilling. It's purely emotional, so it's not purely rational. It's also just me personally. I used to think it was really dumb to want it so much. Best to accept it rather than fight it.

I'm aware that I don't need one to be happy. But it just causes me anxiety fearing it will not happen or happen the way I want it to because it's a main goal. And if that's the case I fear I will uncontrollably obsess over it if it doesn't happen. So, I say, why not give it a shot then first?

A strong relationship with your parents usually helps with kinds of issues- maybe you should call them up and see them sometime. You know what they say.. "In the beginning.."
My father is a prescription drug addict and I haven't seen him in close to five years. He's probably dead now if I had to venture a guess. My mother can be okay, but she has her own shit and I don't really trust her with everything.

If all fails there's the getting wasted while eating steak route. (b'-')b
Agreed, and then some.
 

onesteptwostep

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Who cares whether or not you'll be in a romantic relationship? It's an experience after all, and there's plenty of people out there who live the single lifestyle that do amazing things. Some do it at the expense of romance.

As for your parents.. well, you could always have steak and wine with your parents, or beer, rather, from the sound of things. :D
 

louiesgonnadie

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Who cares whether or not you'll be in a romantic relationship? It's an experience after all, and there's plenty of people out there who live the single lifestyle that do amazing things. Some do it at the expense of romance.
I guess that's just the way you feel about it.
 

onesteptwostep

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I wouldn't say I have a particular feeling to relationships, they're more 'this' rather than 'that'.

A relationship could be great, yeah, but if the it's the idea of the relationship that is causing you stress or anxiety, it's better that you let go that train of thought.
 

louiesgonnadie

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I wouldn't say I have a particular feeling to relationships, they're more 'this' rather than 'that'.

A relationship could be great, yeah, but if the it's the idea of the relationship that is causing you stress or anxiety, it's better that you let go that train of thought.
Well letting go of the stress and anxiety would probably help, yeah. (aka not giving a fuck). I'm just worried I'll get to caught up in not giving a fuck, and end up wasting my younger years without a relationship because of that. I think there's a difference though between getting stressed out over it vs consciously trying to make it happen, which the latter will help me achieve this sooner.

Like I said, it's a personal thing that can't really be explained with any rationale.
 

onesteptwostep

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Like I said, it's a personal thing that can't really be explained with any rationale.
Yeah, that happens. Personally, anything that causes me negative stress I just stop thinking about.

Anyway as for your case I think if the stress goes away you then can actually try and consciously make that happen.
 

louiesgonnadie

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Yeah, that happens. Personally, anything that causes me negative stress I just stop thinking about.
Well I was talking about the intense emotional want of a specific relationship. It's irrational, but that doesn't mean it's stupid.

Anyway as for your case I think if the stress goes away you then can actually try and consciously make that happen.
Yeah, but it's a matter of time. Given my bad position/situation, can I quickly stabilize to the point where I'm ready to commit and have someone involved in my life? Can I get this done within a year? Like I said -- it's not the relationship thing that's the problem, it's my position that is, which facilitates the stress of not being able to have the relationship ideal (generally speaking, not exact).

Again, I've never worked, and I didn't pay attention in school. I can't relate to people very well because of my lack of experience with the world. I can't keep a conversation going without asking a metric fuckton of questions or making vague statements because I don't know anything about the world, which means I have no significant statement. Therefore I can't establish a solid connection. You'll say I have to find some hobbies, but I can't learn anything new or get deeper because I can't concentrate, which means I can't comprehend. This is where I'm stuck. You could say I just have to meditate, but for how long? If it's a long process I'm going to be wasting away my youth, which defeats the purpose anyway. (again, that's just how I feel -- it's irrational, but if it's logical that the purpose of life is to listen to your heart, goddamn it, I'm going to listen to it) I'm in a position where I probably have to multitask in order to do things the way I want to (again, generally) -- and that's where things could get dicey. So yeah, my core issues kind of fall in a mini-pyramid type of structure. Given these complications, can I still quickly get through all of this and find stability (financial independence, fundamental understanding of multiple subjects, skilled in hobbies, social skills) -- even if I'm not that intelligent? But if I really put my mind to it and dedicate myself to it, can I get to stability quickly? I said before once I find stability, I feel like I'm ready to commit to someone. So yeah, pyramid.

And I'm not just asking you this, anyone reading this, chime in if you have something to say.
 

Tannhauser

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If anything, you seem to have made a good self-assessment of your situation.

Where to start: create concrete goals. I.e. not "find more stability" or "become more focused" or anything like that, that is the equivalent of "my goal is to become fit" -- it is completely abstract and there is no way to measure one's progress towards the goal. A concrete goal is in the form "having done X by date Y". And also, make the goal so that you start at it right away, even if it is merely a microscopic step towards it. Not next week, not tomorrow, but right now (that will prevent you from making more abstract and unrealistic goals).
 

nanook

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There are different kinds of social and business relationships, due to different stages of psychological development. Those are like different operation systems with different programs running in them, all on the same hardware and at once.

On two levels adaptation to particular principles of society is in the foreground of the mind, principles which serve the individual indirectly. However these two levels have entirely different principles of being social or how to support the individual or what individual needs are taken care of.

On two other levels individual freedom, power or achievement are in the foreground of the mind. These two levels also have their own two distinct types of society, which arise from how people embody this freedom.

None of these four levels are very compatible with each other, in fact they can be at complete war with each other. Whatever behavior would make you successful on one level would make you into an invalid outcast on another level.

Normally individuals will have the instinct to search for an environment that is compatible with how they want and know how to live life. A huge problem arises when your ideals are on one level and your abilities are on a different level and these levels are too incompatible.

You can't really change your values and you can't really force your skills to serve given values, when they are designed to work for a different level.

I don't know a solution for this problem. I suffer from the same situation as you do, except i am 37.

It helps to have a more nuanced understanding of the inner conflict and of the conflict i have with different kinds of environments or social principles, based on my understanding of developmental stages, which is Ken Wilber's Integral Theory.

It takes away much of the 'beating myself up' type of anxiety and gives me a lot of immunity to or coolness about the demands that are voiced by society. I don't see myself as wrong, just because i am not, whatever a particular social circle considers to be the right way of being. I just see them as the wrong environment for me.

I've noticed that there was a lot of intuitive wisdom in the social anxieties that i used to have. I wanted things that were not possible and did not intellectually understand they were impossible, but was afraid they weren't possible and the real neurotic tension came from beating myself up and trying anyway, from criticizing my intuitive anxiety, as if it were a mental disease. Now, with my differentiated understanding of what works, my wanting is limited to what actually works. I don't hate myself for not being able to do what is impossible for me. It gives me energy to reach some small goals that are possible and makes me more happy.
 

Perfectly Normal Beast

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try to get a low skill job such as glass-collecting in a bar - you don't need any experience, there's hardly anything to learn, the social skills of a 12yr old should be adequate since you wouldn't have to directly interact with customers much/at all

this is the easiest first step i can think of given your situation. you'd be earning some money, getting your first work experience and more importantly improving your social skills by getting to know the other staff and joining in the camaraderie that springs forth amongst those in such work together
 

Redfire

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1- Breathe. Really, just take 30 seconds. Inhale, hold, exhale. Repeat.
2- You're still young. Yes, you are. And even if you weren't, you can't change the past, so it makes no sense to worry about it. Eyes ahead.
3- You can't solve your entire life all at once. You will never just "wake up" and change. Which brings us to the most important point: you need to tackle one thing at a time. e.g: if you conclude that water is important for health, which it is, you can get organized to drink at least 3 litres a day. How? There are many ways. I fill up Gatorade bottles with water and drink when I'm in the computer. You may find your own way. That's it: problem solved. With that same logic, solve one problem at a time. If you really have trouble solving problems and you need a system, look up David Allen's "Gettings Things Done". That's optional.
4- Prioritize. Taking care of your health, finding a job, going to university; or whatever you have to do, is probably more important to you right now than finding a relationship. People are trouble anyhow. However, if you do see an opportunity, then go for it. You probably had some opportunities, the main reason men don't take them is that it's really embarrassing to be rejected. But it's just a few seconds of pain, and it can lead to something good. If you don't see any opportunities, then don't worry about it, you have better things to do anyhow.
5- Stop complaining. Life is tough, way tougher for others than for you, probably. Adult life consists of solving one problem after the other, and as far as I've seen it doesn't seem to ever stop. Just accept that and make the most of it. When you hit a roadblock when studying, just breathe and go on. Try to read slower. Sit up straight, that can relieve anxiety. And go on.

And yes, I DO know what you're going through. My brain sometimes feels like mush. I have horrible anxiety almost every day, and especially when I have problems I haven't solved yet. It probably comes from an unhealthy lifestyle and diet. Whatever it is, you're going to have to live with it, it's not going to be fixed overnight. Exercise, diet and clean sleep habits can improve it to a certain extent, but it probably won't go away entirely.

Best wishes.
 

louiesgonnadie

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It's not that I'll hate myself if I don't accomplish my goals, it's that I'll feel hatred for my life -- although I'm realizing that would be irrelevant since I'll just have to focus on the positives I guess. However, and I'm talking absolute worst case scenario here -- if this is the case I feel my life will be ruined by obsessive nagging feelings that I've missed out, which if that's the case I'll probably have to completely shut myself off from society and even reality since those will be triggers for me considering it's a reminder what could have been. (if this scenario comes to fruition, it's likely that I would have autism, which would contribute to the uncontrollable obsessive feelings). I might even consider experimenting with drugs to alter my perception if things get really bad. The suicide would only be an option if I find I'm unable to support myself. But this is a long ways away -- I shouldn't be focusing on worst case scenarios right now, considering I still have quite a few options.

I've noticed that there was a lot of intuitive wisdom in the social anxieties that i used to have. I wanted things that were not possible and did not intellectually understand they were impossible, but was afraid they weren't possible and the real neurotic tension came from beating myself up and trying anyway, from criticizing my intuitive anxiety, as if it were a mental disease. Now, with my differentiated understanding of what works, my wanting is limited to what actually works. I don't hate myself for not being able to do what is impossible for me. It gives me energy to reach some small goals that are possible and makes me more happy.
Could you PM me what these impossible things were, just for insightful purposes? thanks.

And since you're bringing all of this up -- does this mean you think my situation and position are so bad I'll end up like you, having to settle for severely less?
 

nanook

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we hate ourselves as a means to motivate change. it's fear based motivations. it's due to the duality of inner child and inner parent that the same principle expresses itself with different emotions. the parent is angry at your performance and afraid of the outcome, the child is afraid of both the anger of the parent and of the outcome. which of these perspectives you are most tuned in says something about your inner state, but does not imply that the other perspectives and emotions are not true for you as well, subconsciously.

inner child and parent are part of the trinity discussed in transactional analysis - article by Ken Wilber.

it's great if we can transform fear based motivations into self love and acceptance of desires, which requires a transcendent perspective, the 'grown up' as it's called in transactional analysis.


one of the things that don't work for me is impressing people who are different by hoping that they won't notice that i am different and being afraid that my true nature shows. for years i felt observed on the streets, because i was worried about using fashion to alter the perception of other people and so i had to worry that it doesn't really work. i mean what kind of a cool punk has a weight problem? it was too obvious that i was a couch potato, not a street kid.

i had to realize that i 'it's not that i am afraid of not being accepted by street kids' but that I DO NOT ACTUALLY WANT TO BE LIKED BY STREET KIDS and my anxiety about how they think about me is actually the shadow version of this conflict i have with them, because they are totally different from me. prior to that, i just thought we are maybe somehow the same, because we are equally outcasts. that was a delusion.

another thing that doesn't work is putting labels on myself, that don't imply understanding of the mechanics and don't provide perspective on how to change and therefore feel disempowering, not empowering. stupid DSM labels that are mere observations of behavioral traits and are inherently hurtful, judgemental. we should either dive into analytical psychology or try to live without psychological concepts at all.

other examples are too complicated to explain, it would involve a total discussion of the levels. for instance there is no point in trying to be be liked by someone who is on a stage that doesn't even understand the stage that i am on and that actually hates what little it can see of it. i know how to avoid pointless arguments and what arguments are worth a shot.

giving up on subjective strategies that do not work does not imply the loss of objective possibilities. it implies to possibility of discovering a different subjective strategy that may actually be able actualize/manifest an objective possibility - though this might be a long term strategy. so we should not be afraid of learning the truth about our own condition and compatibility with the world around us.

in the example above, being liked by street kids, while being something different, is not an realistically attainable goal. but learning how to live on the street might be an attainable goal, if that is actually desired. more likely becoming something else and being accepted somewhere else is the way to go.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu9MPRzpEbQ
 

Tannhauser

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Teal Swan -- an inexhaustible source of bullshit for self-help junkies.
 

Grayman

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You wrote a lot and no I didn't read it all but what I did read seems to be all reduced to you not feeling like you did anything with your life and that you wasted it. You don't think you can catch up. If this is accurate then stop worrying because there is still plenty of time. Once people have gotten married, got that career, and had those kids they just coast and become complacent. As long as you keep moving you will slowly catch up to them. Judging from your writing you are not a complete idiot so the only thing that can keep you from succeeding is your own self.

Normal people who are moderately successful in life don't think so much. They just focus on the next step. If you think too much about the end goal it is easy to get overwhelmed. When you are so far behind and you are uncertain as to how to get to that goal it might seem impossible but you just have trust that small steps will add up to large outcomes.

You don't want to ignore your anxiety or push it aside by not giving a fuck. You just need to settle down a little be quiet and listen because anxiety is trying to tell you something. But no don't think or examine or start theorizing just listen and take the next step and another one and keep moving and you'll find that your anxiety will slowly subside in silent satisfaction.

Again, anxiety is there to tell you something is wrong. Don't feed it or ignore it just listen and take that step.
 

Fukyo

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It seems you have a lot of rigid self imposed rules about how your life is supposed to unfold. Now that your life is not following the trajectory you think it should you feel chaotic. My opinion is that the sooner you discard these rules, the sooner you will find your anxiety is subsiding. The issue is not about "stopping to give fucks" it's about stopping to give fucks about things that don't matter - like your fairy tail ideal about growing old with someone from an early age. This shit just doesn't happen in real life. Maybe if you're the main character of an anime.

If you are concerned about not knowing how the world works, don't worry, you're not alone. Nobody is born with the knowledge of how the world works. The best way to learn is by living, getting out of your comfort zone even if you're afraid, getting into the fray, just doing something, anything.

Oh another thing. You seem pretty entitled to having somebody solve your problems by the way these threads are phrased. You never post on here, and then just show up with a wall of text expecting solutions. Do you interact with people at all? Even online? Even interacting online and making friends, hearing their experiences and experiencing different kinds of people can be beneficial and teach you a thing or two.

 

Intolerable

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It seems you have a lot of rigid self imposed rules about how your life is supposed to unfold. Now that your life is not following the trajectory you think it should you feel chaotic. My opinion is that the sooner you discard these rules, the sooner you will find your anxiety is subsiding. The issue is not about "stopping to give fucks" it's about stopping to give fucks about things that don't matter - like your fairy tail ideal about growing old with someone from an early age. This shit just doesn't happen in real life. Maybe if you're the main character of an anime.

If you are concerned about not knowing how the world works, don't worry, you're not alone. Nobody is born with the knowledge of how the world works. The best way to learn is by living, getting out of your comfort zone even if you're afraid, getting into the fray, just doing something, anything.

Oh another thing. You seem pretty entitled to having somebody solve your problems by the way these threads are phrased. You never post on here, and then just show up with a wall of text expecting solutions. Do you interact with people at all? Even online? Even interacting online and making friends, hearing their experiences and experiencing different kinds of people can be beneficial and teach you a thing or two.


Well said. The notion that we're to live predetermined lives is poison to any human, let alone an INTP!
 

Bock

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I don't know how to break free from it.
Gonna have to ask the hard questions such as "How does your average day look?" and "How often do you leave the house?, because i don't believe you've mentioned anything about things like that. My point is that a state of mind is very much bound to/largely a product of your environment and how you spend your time and so on. I cannot prove this to you but - You cannot even imagine how different your experience of the "self" and the "world" can be, it's simply not possible for us. This is something that frustrate me greatly because it would be a fantastic "carrot" otherwise (assuming you've experienced happiness/inner security yada yada at least once). I have these sweet memories of great times in my life but they do absolutely nothing to help me out of my current several-years-deep pitch black hole.

Do you believe yourself to be in a position to decide what goals you should chase or what you even actually want at all? You may find that ALOT changes when you actually get yourself out there. But then again, you've written pretty much nothing about your actual situation outside of your experienced mental state (unless i've missed something), so it's hard to say whether you need a slight kick in the arse or an appointment with a psychologist (or both).

The "self" changes, try not to obsess about whatever goals you have at the moment (or who you are really), you need to throw yourself out there. You may very well find that the majority of your issues and anxieties was just nonsense produced by a confused brain living a life it was not adapted for/not equipped to deal with. Easier said than done though, trust me i know...











or maybe you actually have a job/social life and i just need to shut the hell up
 

A_Scanner_Darkly

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Eliminate anxiety and find stability. These are both separate, but they go hand in hand. The anxiety prevents me from focusing on anything. Because of this, I can't concentrate or generally comprehend anything. No brain structure, scattered thoughts and feelings. It keeps me inside my head. Whenever I'm involved in a new hands-on task, no matter what it is, I cannot comprehend it for the life of me and fuck up on several tries in the most retarded ways. if you were to observe me, without knowing nothing else about me, you'd think I'm slow. It also affects how I communicate, which is scattered and non-linear.
I recently screwed up the phone interview portion of the selection process for this really kick-ass job. I was really emotionally invested in getting it and this made me more anxious than I already am. The first three rounds were all email and written word exercises, which I excel at. But not halfway through the phone conversation, I knew I'd screwed the whole thing up. I was mumbling, thoughts were disconnected/scattershot, I was backtracking to improve a previously uttered concept, which makes sense in written word but not spoken...

I can't organize my thoughts properly in spoken word. I also hardly speak these days, because I spend most of my time by myself, so I'm beginning to talk funny. So one way to improve future chances is to be socially connected. I have struggled for years with social anxiety, however, so this is very difficult.

Think the extraversion bias that exists in America was also part of it. People like us who live in their heads are perceived as odd, in a bad way. I would probably have a pretty good shot at success if I had been born in East Asia, where shyness and quietness are seen as desirable traits.

I assuage feelings of helplessness and overpowering anxiety by focusing on my daily tasks. I usually have low-paying web jobs I'm working on, or I'm applying for jobs in my city. I don't make a whole lot, but the experience is valuable. No luck with any jobs yet, but I'm sure eventually I'll land one, and then I can start making more substantial progress...
 

louiesgonnadie

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it's about stopping to give fucks about things that don't matter - like your fairy tail ideal about growing old with someone from an early age. This shit just doesn't happen in real life. Maybe if you're the main character of an anime.
The way I described this makes it seem like it's some perfect fairy tale Wizzknee bullshit storyline lifestyle -- but that's definitely not what it is. It's really not that far fetched. I'm not aiming for perfection here, there will be problems that come along with it and that's totally fuckin' fine with me. But just generally speaking, what I was describing here was realistic. Again, I say since I'm on Earth, why not give it a shot? Just because it doesn't matter to you doesn't mean it's invalid.

And yeah, taking another step back maybe I just want the experience of a young relationship, and it's okay if I don't end up with that person and I meet the person I do end up with when I'm older. But I was just describing goals and the means to get there. I do think it's irrelevant at this point since I'm trying to fix myself and my life, get my shit together etc. before I involve someone in it.

Oh another thing. You seem pretty entitled to having somebody solve your problems by the way these threads are phrased. You never post on here, and then just show up with a wall of text expecting solutions. Do you interact with people at all? Even online? Even interacting online and making friends, hearing their experiences and experiencing different kinds of people can be beneficial and teach you a thing or two.
I'm not entitled to anything on this forum, nor do I expect someone to solve my problems especially online. It's two things. One being the fact that I'm so scatterminded I feel I can't come up with possible solutions myself. So I consult a forum where people aren't so deep into their heads as I am, or have been in similar situations that they've had to get out of, and offer their insight about certain first steps I need to take. The second one is that I've had a positive experience when interacting with INTPs. The feedback I've gotten was generally realistic, concise, and with a balance of analysis (not too much) -- which I've found very insightful and helpful in the past. It's up to me to apply this stuff in real life.

I don't interact much on this forum because, again, I don't have anything interesting to say. Again, that's what I talked about -- I know nothing. If I were posting on here the best things I'd have to contribute would probably be like "The fallacy of voting...yeah politics are dumb, lol" or "hey, Fukyo, ya know the sky's blue?". It's nonsignificant bullshit. That's no different than my social presence IRL. If a few members of this forum plus me were in a social situation IRL I'd be the one just listening in silence -- which happens to be my presence on this forum. That's all because I'm deep into my head. I can't connect with people because of it. I would post more if I had more insightful, informing things to say. Also I've haven't had the patience to right now. Yeah it's awkward that someone who doesn't regularly post comes on here asking for help with their life problems, but honestly at this point, does that awkwardness even matter?

And yeah about the "my life didn't start because I haven't reached my goals yet!" thing. Yeah, I recognize that it's inaccurate because every moment counts. I agree. But again, since I'm on earth, I figure why not seriously value these goals and make a run at them. It's just how I feel. But no, I don't think that way, though yeah, I often feel that way just because I've been exposed to them.

Look the whole thing about "what if I can't reach them, goddamn it my life is so fucked!!!!" thing is irrelevant at this point because I came here for feedback about how to get out of my head. I'm seriously at a loss for how to do it. I've tried a bit of shit and had a lot of ideas but they've been all over the place and because of that I've gotten overwhelmed which left me demotivated. Again, the reasons why I decided to come here and ask apply here.
 

QuickTwist

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It seems you have a lot of rigid self imposed rules about how your life is supposed to unfold. Now that your life is not following the trajectory you think it should you feel chaotic. My opinion is that the sooner you discard these rules, the sooner you will find your anxiety is subsiding. The issue is not about "stopping to give fucks" it's about stopping to give fucks about things that don't matter - like your fairy tail ideal about growing old with someone from an early age. This shit just doesn't happen in real life. Maybe if you're the main character of an anime.

If you are concerned about not knowing how the world works, don't worry, you're not alone. Nobody is born with the knowledge of how the world works. The best way to learn is by living, getting out of your comfort zone even if you're afraid, getting into the fray, just doing something, anything.

Oh another thing. You seem pretty entitled to having somebody solve your problems by the way these threads are phrased. You never post on here, and then just show up with a wall of text expecting solutions. Do you interact with people at all? Even online? Even interacting online and making friends, hearing their experiences and experiencing different kinds of people can be beneficial and teach you a thing or two.

So much this.
If you want happiness, its not going to be found in getting in over your head with goals that society is placing upon you to fulfill.
The secret to being happy is to accepting the emotion of happiness. It is completely the wrong outlook to "live for the future". Both my mother and my sister both can't wait to be going somewhere else/doing something else, but they are happy because they accept what they are doing in the moment as enjoyable.
Also, and this is something not touched on too often in this forum, but happiness is for those who are optimists. Some people just have a natural gravitation toward "looking on the bright side". For some people that works and that is fine for them. But for other people, they just do not have the optimistic disposition that is seen on TV and movies (and anime).

My advice to you is to learn to accept where you are now and accept possibilities. Accept what you cannot change and be happy with that. That does not mean you stop living. "Trying to be happy" almost never works and I would advise against that type of thinking. The best you can really do is learn to be satisfied with where you are at presently and look to opportunities that can give you a better quality of life.
 

louiesgonnadie

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Gonna have to ask the hard questions such as "How does your average day look?" and "How often do you leave the house?, because i don't believe you've mentioned anything about things like that.
I still live at home with family. I spend every day on my laptop. Occasionally I might go out for a walk, and I have therapy once or twice a week, but I'm pretty much 99% in my head. I've been like this for the past 6 years, even in school. I have shut myself off from other people temporarily because of my situation, so I don't talk to people, and haven't for the past two years -- with the exception of reconnecting with a friend from school, but I'm not sure if that will work out at this point so generally speaking, I don't go out and talk to people at all. I am trying to change that though -- I'll probably come along for Thanksgiving to see my family, just to marinate in social experience.

Do you believe yourself to be in a position to decide what goals you should chase or what you even actually want at all?
The only thing I don't see changing is the relationship one considering that I've felt strongly about it since I was a kid, since I've felt about it for such a long time I think it's probably just a stable value of mine. Everything else is kind of flexible, but I don't really want to be a part of the 9-5 rat race. So flexible, unorthodox job would be nice. But if it's essential, I can adapt.

But those are long-term goals. Right now I'm focusing on short term ones -- eliminate anxiety, and find stability (stability e.g. mentally/physically/emotionally secure, focused, informed, independent)
 

QuickTwist

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Have you been diagnosed with a mental illness? If so, you may want to consider social security as an option.
 

louiesgonnadie

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So much this.
If you want happiness, its not going to be found in getting in over your head with goals that society is placing upon you to fulfill.
No, it's not that I'm listening to society. If anything my short term goals of finding stability being self-sufficient and independent look like conforming to society, when it's actually just, well, trying to be self-sufficient. I've always wanted to be completely self-sufficient and independent, there's a refreshing freedom with it. My long term goals get more unorthodox. Even the relationship ones. Fuck what society thinks.

Also, and this is something not touched on too often in this forum, but happiness is for those who are optimists. Some people just have a natural gravitation toward "looking on the bright side". For some people that works and that is fine for them. But for other people, they just do not have the optimistic disposition that is seen on TV and movies (and anime).
So you're saying people who aren't naturally like this have to consciously be aware of positivity? Is there any psychological proof of this? (PM or visitor message me if you decide to link, because it veers off topic)

"Trying to be happy" almost never works and I would advise against that type of thinking.
You mean working towards your goals with the impression that happiness is a destination, right? If not, if I'm not a natural optimist what do you really mean?
 

QuickTwist

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No, it's not that I'm listening to society. If anything my short term goals of finding stability being self-sufficient and independent look like conforming to society, when it's actually just, well, trying to be self-sufficient. I've always wanted to be completely self-sufficient and independent, there's a refreshing freedom with it. My long term goals get more unorthodox. Even the relationship ones. Fuck what society thinks.
Apologies! I mistook you for a tool and I'm sorry.

So you're saying people who aren't naturally like this have to consciously be aware of positivity? Is there any psychological proof of this? (PM or visitor message me if you decide to link, because it veers off topic)
IDK, I guess I am. Good catch. My point was happiness begets happiness and unhappiness begets unhappiness. People ultimately grow into themselves as they get older. If you have a natural disposition for [insert thing here] you are naturally going to go deeper and deeper into that.

You mean working towards your goals with the impression that happiness is a destination, right? If not, if I'm not a natural optimist what do you really mean?
Goals are fine. I don't mind goals... at all. I meant that its best to be grounded in the reality of what is now. In a broad sense, not in a "I'm an S and I'm pushing my own type being superior." I mean whatever is going on for you now, in this moment, at all times, accept it.
 

QuickTwist

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Why do you ask this?
It was a completely spontaneous question. If it doesn't fit the bill and you have no idea what I am talking about, you can disregard it.
 

INTPWolf

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Dude, louiesgonnadie, i've been there, exactly as you described it, the chaos in my mind and the inability to get anything right when i finally make myself put forward the effort, i just look like a dunce fiddling around with something. Totally directionless in life other than a lofty dream i was doing nothing about.
My thoughts on the matter was that i was putting too much stress on my Ti to control conscious mental and physical function, and i wasn't trusting any of my inferior functions.
Ti is very powerful as a function, our society just makes it that way. As a dominant function it totally overpowers other functions activity in the ego and can be addicting.
I knew something had to change, so i went off on a road trip. I took the greyhound bus, cheap, and forced myself to socialize. It was difficult at first, i still felt like a bumbling idiot, but as the the road trip progressed i learned quickly and i started trusting my secondary function, Ne, more. After that Si followed, then maybe a little bit of Fe. i felt great for a while.
Its been 6 months since then and i'm starting to slip back into it, most likely because college proved to be more focus demanding than i expected and i need ADD pills. But, it worked for a little while at least!
But going on a road trip forces you to use more than just Ti to function. And if you have minor avoidant social anxiety like i do, you just have to think; you will most likely never see all these people again in your lifetime, and even if you do, there's no way you will remember each other. So don't fret about every little thing. I made friends along the trip, still people i don't think i ever see again, but still i broke my antisocial buble for the first time in a long time.
 

A_Scanner_Darkly

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Recently stumbled on this fledgling company: https://joyable.com/
The idea is interesting, and I imagine controversial.

Not that I'm saying you should pay someone with little to no formal training to be your life coach -- I'm just bringing attention to the fact that what you describe matches what is termed Social Anxiety Disorder/Avoidant Personality Disorder.

SA is actually interpersonal hypersensitivity as opposed to interpersonal apathy (e.g. schizoid), but from the outside it looks much the same.

As I said earlier, I struggle with the same. Been self-treating with gradually paced exposure therapy. I wouldn't have thought it, but just going on this forum every day helps me not to be so self-critical and hypersensitive to others' perceptions of me, or perceived perceptions of me...it is refreshing to be reassured about my not being perfect via the imperfection of others.

As for getting out of my head...well, I've come to believe being in there all the time is mostly a defense mechanism. It's not too hard. I find people whom I have things in common with, then ask questions I genuinely want to know the answers to. Unfortunately, I have rather strong reactions to people I instinctively dislike. I see good in everyone, but that doesn't mean I want to interact with everyone...think I've learned to predict pretty accurately when someone is going to bore me with an extended monologue or try to manipulate/use me or just be otherwise obnoxious. This is on top of the anxiety I'm experiencing in any given social situation simply from being extremely uncomfortably aware of the social hierarchies and micro-power-struggles and such nasty things and just wishing in my head the whole time that human beings were not such primitive, petty creatures...so I come across as rude/standoffish when the reality is that I'm going through quite some pain -- that's the real reason, but typically no one else there experiences social interaction that way, so they misunderstand.

I dunno what the muteness is about, really. Ideas are a very personal thing for me, perhaps, and I don't like people criticizing them and whatnot. Also tend to beat myself up when I do anything wrong, so saying something meant to be insightful but that is just a flop/obvious just makes me feel foolish for the rest of the day. Also don't like making people listen to me talk (if they want to read my posts that's something else entirely), because I find myself pretty boring.

Seems it's an interplay of low self-esteem, problems with self-assertion, and acute sensitivity/awareness...don't think I'll ever feel, like, stupendous about myself or expect other people to, nor do I think I can ever change that baseline sensitivity much (it's a central nervous system thing), but assertion and sensitivity can both be worked on...think self-esteem can be improved to a certain extent by consistently accomplishing goals and self-improving...
 

louiesgonnadie

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It was a completely spontaneous question. If it doesn't fit the bill and you have no idea what I am talking about, you can disregard it.
I developed social anxiety and depression due to living in a bad upbringing (family abuse) for a few years. I talked about my experiences leading up to my situation in my previous thread I posted last year. I think there's a difference between my situation with mental illness compared to someone who was born with it. Because it's not my natural brain state I can probably overcome it (barring any developmental disability such as autism) unlike someone who was born with it who will have to cope with it. But yeah, it's the biggest contributor to my bad situation and position. Best to just take steps on dealing with it rather than talking about it for the 2384832749872 time.

Though I've wondered if I developed BPD over the past 3 years. Doubtful but possible.
 

Sinny91

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Everything you've wrote pretty much sums up all the thoughts that I've been having since my 'midlife crisis' in April; and that's one rut I'm yet to get my self out of.

I know what you mean, we just want to be self reliant, stable and secure. Unfortunately, life's got alternative plans. You can try and try and try all you might, but in the end you only get the cards that life deals you.

That's the fine print that comes with this existance, the fine print which nobody is willing to take too seriously. All you can do is your best with the cards which you've been dealt.

The only things keeping me from psychosis currently are; bags of weed, the funny thoughts in my head, music... and youknow, outlets and platforms such as this. As much as we all banter.. its nice to know you all (exist). Consequently, other people do think some of the same shit I think, 'I'm not so alone'... 'yayy'

Not enough though is it. You need to feel it. That's harder to come by.
Though I think that even in our fears, we are not alone. I think collectively, many of us are all suffering the same anxieties.

Ever seen that movie Time with Justin Timberlake in it?
How can we enjoy/relax/appreciate/whatever life, when 90% of it is just an uphill struggle? At what point do we call it a success? What is 'success'?... and so on until we branch off into the metapsyical realms..

Clocks a tickin.. tick tock.

The positive thoughts in my head want to say that patience is a virtue.
Rome wasn't built in a day, and if there's anything an old person is ever going to tell us... its to take our time. Best to move slowly and deliberately.

......

I'm going to cut this short because I keep typing and discarding tangents. *big grin*
 

louiesgonnadie

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I know what you mean, we just want to be self reliant, stable and secure. Unfortunately, life's got alternative plans. You can try and try and try all you might, but in the end you only get the cards that life deals you.
Are you implying that you think my situation is that unfavorable for achieving my goals?
 

Grayman

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Are you implying that you think my situation is that unfavorable for achieving my goals?

Why are do you feel inclined to ask this particular question repeatedly with various users? Do you want someone to tell you that your situation won't allow you success? Is some part of you looking for an excuse?
 

Seteleechete

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Fukyo

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Why are do you feel inclined to ask this particular question repeatedly with various users? Do you want someone to tell you that your situation won't allow you success? Is some part of you looking for an excuse?
I get the same feeling about your posts loisgonnadie to be honest. Coupled with how you have a response to every suggestion, about how you can't do that for one reason or another. It's not possible to help someone who doesn't want to help themselves. Giving feedback is pointless if you don't want to even try to accept any of it.

I don't believe you have nothing to talk about with people, even online. What are you doing all day on your laptop? Surely you must at least be reading something that is enriching your perspective, something giving you food for thought, something giving you things to talk about? If you are not, then start doing it.

You don't have to participate in this forum, per se, but interacting with others online is a stepping stone for other interactions. You need to become a part of a collective, even an online one. It might not sound like much, but it's a start.

You are too negative and too close minded. There comes a time in your life when you need to stop coddling yourself and need to do things that go against yourself. You are ultimately safe in the constrains of your mind and you don't want to leave that safety, but what you probably need is to be more forceful with yourself, to push yourself out.
 

Tannhauser

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If I would be completely honest, I thought the exact same thing as Fukyo. I thought to myself: there seems to be two kinds of people: those who look for help only as a way to find narratives for perpetuating their current state, and those who actually want to change themselves. Of course, everyone says they are the latter, but not many actually are. Some people live a self-help style just because it feels good to them -- being in a perpetual state of living in the gutter while looking at the stars..
 

Grayman

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I developed social anxiety and depression due to living in a bad upbringing (family abuse) for a few years. I talked about my experiences leading up to my situation in my previous thread I posted last year. I think there's a difference between my situation with mental illness compared to someone who was born with it. Because it's not my natural brain state I can probably overcome it (barring any developmental disability such as autism) unlike someone who was born with it who will have to cope with it. But yeah, it's the biggest contributor to my bad situation and position. Best to just take steps on dealing with it rather than talking about it for the 2384832749872 time.

Though I've wondered if I developed BPD over the past 3 years. Doubtful but possible.
Have you setup an appointment with a psychologist? I don't want to diagnose you.

Avoid diagnosing yourself but you might talk to people on this forum. You seem to have a few things in common.http://www.psychforums.com/schizoid-personality/
 

louiesgonnadie

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Why are do you feel inclined to ask this particular question repeatedly with various users? Do you want someone to tell you that your situation won't allow you success? Is some part of you looking for an excuse?
I get the same feeling about your posts loisgonnadie to be honest. Coupled with how you have a response to every suggestion, about how you can't do that for one reason or another. It's not possible to help someone who doesn't want to help themselves. Giving feedback is pointless if you don't want to even try to accept any of it.
If I would be completely honest, I thought the exact same thing as Fukyo. I thought to myself: there seems to be two kinds of people: those who look for help only as a way to find narratives for perpetuating their current state, and those who actually want to change themselves. Of course, everyone says they are the latter, but not many actually are. Some people live a self-help style just because it feels good to them -- being in a perpetual state of living in the gutter while looking at the stars..

It's an anxiety thing.

I just realized my question was stupid. How the fuck will some random person online determine that I can't achieve my goals because of how bad my situation is?

Yes, accept it and make the best of things.
And because of that now I feel like people are just giving me an answer to shut me up.

Forget I asked. Like I said, it was dumb and irrational.

Nothing I can do now but get off the thread and take steps to improve.
 

QuickTwist

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I developed social anxiety and depression due to living in a bad upbringing (family abuse) for a few years. I talked about my experiences leading up to my situation in my previous thread I posted last year. I think there's a difference between my situation with mental illness compared to someone who was born with it. Because it's not my natural brain state I can probably overcome it (barring any developmental disability such as autism) unlike someone who was born with it who will have to cope with it. But yeah, it's the biggest contributor to my bad situation and position. Best to just take steps on dealing with it rather than talking about it for the 2384832749872 time.

Though I've wondered if I developed BPD over the past 3 years. Doubtful but possible.
For argument sake, I think the things that would really be holding you back if what you say is true is your family. If your family is the cause, if you get rid of them you will treat the symptom. I have to say, IDK how bad your family has abused you and therefor don't know how bad your symptoms are. I will say that I don't know why you didn't start this thread with the premise of talking about your family abuse since that is the real cause of your symptoms.
 

Grayman

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You can get tools and ideas 'while' you take your steps and improve. I don't expect you to do it alone and on strength of will alone. No one can change for the better in complete isolation. We all need someone.
 

Kuu

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There's not much too add that wasn't said in the previous thread.

1. You're not slow or stupid. You're clearly articulate and have largely correctly analysed your situation.

2. You're not running out of time. 21 is quite young. I didn't start getting my shit together until I was 25. You can make a lot of progress in one or two years if you really set yourself on it.

3. You don't need to "catch up" to anything. This is the most poisonous thought you have right now. Learn to live life on your own terms, at your own speed. It is the obsession with these external judgements that is stressing you out. Peace of mind comes from within.

4. Your first relationship will be a failure, most likely. Not because of your present state, but simply because that's how it is in general, there are too many variables outside of your control. If you seek a relationship in the state you are in now, it is almost a guaranteed trainwreck. Do not seek a relationship now, the opportunity will come once you stabilise yourself and are more prepared to seize it.

5. You must focus on yourself. Your problems are all in your head. It's a classic struggle for Ti dominants: you have to fight against the best of yourself, your capacity for analysis, using the weakest of your functions, Fe. Other people largely don't give a shit about you; stop worrying about what they might think about you. Do they think you are slow or aspergers or weird? Who knows? Does it matter at all? Become who you are, not who you are afraid of being.

Fighting yourself is a matter of facing your fears, and getting out of your comfort zone. You (your mind) is your worst enemy. It's what got you into this mess to begin with. Whatever your mind thinks, do the opposite. Try it. Do not think about it. Do it. It will hurt. You will fail. Do it anyway. Understanding will come later. You already know this.

Seek out your friend, ask him for help. (DO IT)

we hate ourselves as a means to motivate change. it's fear based motivations. it's due to the duality of inner child and inner parent that the same principle expresses itself with different emotions. the parent is angry at your performance and afraid of the outcome, the child is afraid of both the anger of the parent and of the outcome. which of these perspectives you are most tuned in says something about your inner state, but does not imply that the other perspectives and emotions are not true for you as well, subconsciously.
other examples are too complicated to explain, it would involve a total discussion of the levels. for instance there is no point in trying to be be liked by someone who is on a stage that doesn't even understand the stage that i am on and that actually hates what little it can see of it. i know how to avoid pointless arguments and what arguments are worth a shot.
Damn nanook, why are you always blowing my mind with the conciseness of your sagelike wisdom?
 

QuickTwist

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Fighting yourself is a matter of facing your fears, and getting out of your comfort zone. You (your mind) is your worst enemy. It's what got you into this mess to begin with. Whatever your mind thinks, do the opposite. Try it. Do not think about it. Do it. It will hurt. You will fail. Do it anyway. Understanding will come later. You already know this.
This is some fucking powerful advice my friend.
 

Kuu

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Why do you do the opposite of what your mind tells you to do? :confused:
Because sometimes your mind is stuck in a loop of wrong.

Sometimes your mind reaches an erroneous conclusion.
Sometimes that erroneous conclusion prevents you from acquiring the data that would disprove it. (Such as thinking you're stupid or incapable.)
This becomes the seed of a whole tree of branching erroneous conclusions based on a mistaken premise.

You cannot trust your own logic anymore to get you out of this conundrum. So you seek answers.

But thinking dominant people also hate to be wrong. You cling to your beliefs because being right is such a strong part of your identity; "being right" is an ego defense mechanism. When you're severely depressed and your self esteem is on the floor you cannot accept being told you're wrong when "being right" is the last string holding you up from the abyss of self-loathing. So you reject the answers you're given.

You must reach the answers yourself, find the data that disproves your wrong conclusions through direct experience, when they are so obvious that you cannot reject them anymore. If you've been running in circles around the tree of crooked reason and seem to be getting nowhere, maybe you need to do something different and scary, like running away from it.

Thesis, antithesis, synthesis.

Who knows, perhaps lead can become gold, but you must dare to investigate the forbidden...

[bimgx=500]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Karte_Pomponius_Mela_rotated.jpg[/bimgx]

If you are lost and suspect your map is wrong, perhaps its better to discard it and sail in any random direction, face the sea monsters at the edge of the world... you might discover something.
 

Grayman

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Thanks for the explanation.


This seem different than my world view and experiences. My mind is my safe-house from irrational feelings. These irrational feelings seem an external force an not a part of my mind and identity even though they may be produced within my own mind.


I see a lot of irrational judgment and vast generalizations in their writings.
Stupid is an irrational feeling. It not a logical judgment and is a vast generalization. Incapable is also a large generalization if used to describe yourself in all areas. A negative feeling can be attached to 'incapable' but it is only logical in recognizing your limits so that you can focus on what you are capable in.

I don't care about being right so much as what I can do with with that conclusion. A means to an end. Practicality instead of identity.

IDK In connection to the people in reference I only see them as to grabbing on irrational judgments feelings as a premise for all their logic. So what makes them see these feelings as valid? The broken map? Past experiences providing wrong data input for their logical deductions while also cementing irrational feelings about their identity?
 

QuickTwist

Spiritual "Woo"
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Thanks for the explanation.


This seem different than my world view and experiences. My mind is my safe-house from irrational feelings. These irrational feelings seem an external force an not a part of my mind and identity even though they may be produced within my own mind.


I see a lot of irrational judgment and vast generalizations in their writings.
Stupid is an irrational feeling. It not a logical judgment and is a vast generalization. Incapable is also a large generalization if used to describe yourself in all areas. A negative feeling can be attached to 'incapable' but it is only logical in recognizing your limits so that you can focus on what you are capable in.

I don't care about being right so much as what I can do with with that conclusion. A means to an end. Practicality instead of identity.

IDK In connection to the people in reference I only see them as to grabbing on irrational judgments feelings as a premise for all their logic. So what makes them see these feelings as valid? The broken map? Past experiences providing wrong data input for their logical deductions while also cementing irrational feelings about their identity?
Some people need to be told to let go of their inhibitions and just go with the flow and others need to be told to go against what they are thinking. It just depends.
 
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