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If you're still in doubt

MichiganJFrog

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If you're still not even sure you're an introvert, what's holding you back? In my case, it's my social anxiety, which completely clouds and confuses the issue. For I know, I could be a shy extravert, though I seriously doubt it.
 

EvilBlitz

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If you were a shy extravert, wouldn't that predispose you towards solo/less ppl activities that are outdoors?
Whereas an introvert wouldn't necessarily need or want to be outdoors as much?
 

MichiganJFrog

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It's all very muddled. Most of the time I am perfectly content to be by myself, whether in or out of doors. When it comes time for human interaction, I will often get nervous. I think it's because I feel like I'm supposed to act like an extravert, whatever that means, and that if I act like an introvert it will put people off -- you know, the whole standoffish thing. I'm probably better off just being my introverted self. It would be easy enough for me to emulate the behavior of my introverted friends who are comfortable with themselves.
 

LPolaright

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I think a better solution would be turning to the cognitive functions - as they provide much more information regarding what the person should think his type is.

Also, extreme shyness or over-confidence is a tricky quality when it comes to the point of typing I/E.
 

MichiganJFrog

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I think a better solution would be turning to the cognitive functions
Sounds like a good idea. I just wonder how much more reading I'll have to do on them until something clicks.

Also, extreme shyness or over-confidence is a tricky quality when it comes to the point of typing I/E.
I feel like it will turn out to be the case either that shyness and I/E have nothing to do with each other, or that the connection between them is so complex that it will take many years and many flowcharts to sort it out.
 

MichiganJFrog

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So now I'm reading a study on all of this. It seems as if the MBTI took Jung's original theories, put them in a blender, and set it on puree.
 

LPolaright

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So now I'm reading a study on all of this. It seems as if the MBTI took Jung's original theories, put them in a blender, and set it on puree.
Read in-depth about cognitive functions, it'll give you much more sense then "puree".
 

MichiganJFrog

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Thanks.
 

Reluctantly

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I feel like it will turn out to be the case either that shyness and I/E have nothing to do with each other, or that the connection between them is so complex that it will take many years and many flowcharts to sort it out.
Theoretically speaking, it can be related, but it can also not be. There are people I know that claim to be introverts when they fit the extroverted type of their introverted type by neurosis and ways of thinking and dealing with the world. But these people are kind of screwed up or have very delusional ways of interpreting the world at times (my mother being one) because they see their introversion in a negative light, as if a victim of circumstances. I actually kind of believe that introversion and extroversion are quite natural now to psychological health, given this evidence. Though I'm sure extroverts will always assume introverts have something wrong with them, despite any evidence to the contrary.

But which of the eight Jungian functions do you think best describes your natural disposition to thinking? Which one do you feel closest to in terms of neurosis?

So now I'm reading a study on all of this. It seems as if the MBTI took Jung's original theories, put them in a blender, and set it on puree.
I
you.

I've been saying something like this for awhile now, but I get the impression most people aren't listening when they try to validate MBTI as a separable theory. It's like, do they even want to know? Or do they just want to state/believe what they think they know?

But unfortunately imo, you're probably not going to ever relinquish all doubt. I guess that goes with anything though when someone has an open mind or is aware enough of the uncertain conditions with which they exist.

heh-heh :storks:
 

LPolaright

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I've been saying something like this for awhile now, but I get the impression most people aren't listening when they try to validate MBTI as a separable theory. It's like, do they even want to know? Or do they just want to state/believe what they think they know?

But unfortunately imo, you're probably not going to ever relinquish all doubt. I guess that goes with anything though when someone has an open mind or is aware enough of the uncertain conditions with which they exist.

heh-heh :storks:
The only reason I sent him to cognitive functions and not explain what he should consider is because it involves the rest of his MBTI dichotomies. If he would provided with a type it would be easier to state all the possibilities.
The J/P gives lots of weight to the final result of E/I.

for example:
IxxP - will be more focused on observing and developing their inner cores (feeling or thinking)
ExxP - will be more focused on creating and developing all possibilities using their inner cores (feeling or thinking)

I feel it's just repeating what he didn't read in-depth yet.
 

Vidi

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Turtles..had to delete it.
Internal conflict, neurosis notions, social anxiety do not belong exclusively only to introverts.
 

Reluctantly

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The only reason I sent him to cognitive functions and not explain what he should consider is because it involves the rest of his MBTI dichotomies. If he would provided with a type it would be easier to state all the possibilities.
The J/P gives lots of weight to the final result of E/I.

for example:
IxxP - will be more focused on observing and developing their inner cores (feeling or thinking)
ExxP - will be more focused on creating and developing all possibilities using their inner cores (feeling or thinking)

I feel it's just repeating what he didn't read in-depth yet.
I'm not really sure what you mean in terms of I/E, but J/P has nothing to do with determining E/I and your definitions are ambiguous because they are highly interpretative (and probably what he wants to avoid). There are Ji, Pi, Je, and Pe functions and they relate to their opposing unconscious function as part of a repressive and reinforcing nature via the cognitive function dualities:
Ni - Se
Si - Ne
Ti - Fe
Fi - Te

Jung uses this as a basis for describing an empirical model for understanding and evaluating their interaction as cognitive processes. MBTI does not acknowledge this at all. There is a huge theoretical difference between the two, so please stop trying to mislead the OP.
 

MichiganJFrog

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I'm almost certain that I'm an introvert. I base this conclusion on the way I process information. I have never been able to just "run with" a new concept, including the concept of introversion. It takes me forever to really "get" something, to feel it in my bones. If I had known that growing up, I would have given myself more time to do so, instead of trying to rush through everything at everyone else's pace. For example, as a musician, I had to really internalize someone else's song before I got comfortable playing it. I had to know what it was about, how the tune came to them, etc. Sometimes I wouldn't like a new song until years after the first time I heard it.

My working hypothesis regarding my social anxiety, based on the preponderance of evidence, is that it stems from my failure and the failure of those around me to accept my introversion. For example, there are those people who expect introverts to be seen and not heard. If you state an opinion, express a preference, write something coherent, or otherwise stand up for yourself, they'll act shocked -- first of all, that you were capable of sustained thought, and second of all, that you had the affrontery to do so in their presence. I have actually been accused of plagiarism by people who thought I was incapable of writing complete sentences. That pisses me off. When I treat myself the way people like that treat me, I piss myself off. This has a lot of adverse health effects, and it has to stop.

I can't do anything about how other people see me, but I can change how I see myself. I believe it's incumbent upon me to achieve self-awareness, self-acceptance, etc. Part of self-acceptance is figuring out what introversion means to me. How do I express it? Will I be a hermit? I don't think that works any better than trying to be the life of the party. If I'm completely alone for too long, even with my cat to keep me company, I get wiggy. If I'm forced to interact with too many people for too long in a way I don't like, I am totally fried. I think I feel most comfortable being around at least a few people, without feeling compelled to interact with them in some way that doesn't feel natural to me.

I also tend to avert my eyes and fidget a lot. It's also nice to know that the latest research shows people who do this aren't necessarily perverts.
 

Dapper Dan

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I'm almost certain that I'm an introvert. I base this conclusion on the way I process information. I have never been able to just "run with" a new concept, including the concept of introversion. It takes me forever to really "get" something, to feel it in my bones. If I had known that growing up, I would have given myself more time to do so, instead of trying to rush through everything at everyone else's pace. For example, as a musician, I had to really internalize someone else's song before I got comfortable playing it. I had to know what it was about, how the tune came to them, etc. Sometimes I wouldn't like a new song until years after the first time I heard it.
This probably has more to do with your perceiving functions than anything else.

Honestly, people put too much stock into I and E. It's probably the last thing you should consider when typing yourself (or someone else, for that matter).
 

MichiganJFrog

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This probably has more to do with your perceiving functions than anything else.
Just Googled it. Very interesting, thanks. Always wondered why I found to-do lists absolutely useless.
 

RadiantFlux

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I'm definitely Fe, that I do know. But, I tend to be rather social with people and I've been told that I'm extremely funny by quite a number of people. Not sure if I'm an introvert, but if I am, I'm an outgoing one (which I think is the case).
 
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