# INTP and Asperger's

#### Integer

##### Redshirt
Aren't there too many similarities between INTPs and aspies? Discuss.

#### Fleur

##### Prolific Member
There are few similiarities, but it doesnt mean that INTPs in reality are patients of Aspergers syndrome. Most of the analogies can be find on other T and I types as well.

#### Dissident

##### Prolific Member
There may be some similarities, but nothing significant, they have nothing to do with each other.
I knew a girl with Aspergers in another forum and you could easily notice that there was something odd. They have no empathy at all, you make a joke, they dont get it; you try to be friendly, they ignore you; they can be suddenly very harsh for no reason; etc. They have very narrowly focused interest which they are very constant with, not like INTPs, and they talk weirdly with no use of any kind of body language. Aspergers is not a matter of personality, its a neurological problem, a kind of lesser autism.

#### Integer

##### Redshirt
Hmm. There are still some aspies who do not appear to be what you have just described (e.g. not understanding jokes etc), so that sometimes the only difference between them and 'normal people' (or NTs, if you prefer) is they have social difficulties.

I think there is a fine line between INTPs and the aspies that I have just referred to. Or maybe them guys are just not aspies at all >_>

#### Jesin

##### Prolific Member
By the way, NT means something totally different here than it does on Asperger forums. Here NT means intuitive thinker, but on Asperger forums, it means neurotypical.

#### Dissident

##### Prolific Member
I checked it, since I only speak for what I picked up from that girl and some research I did back then. They do have problems with humor and such:

Wikipedia said:
Individuals with AS appear to have particular weaknesses in areas of nonliteral language that include humor, irony, and teasing. They usually understand the cognitive basis of humor but may not enjoy it due to lack of understanding of its intent

#### Integer

##### Redshirt
Okay fair enough. I'm not an expert in AS anyway.
But it's curious to see that some famous people, like Einstein, are labelled as either aspie or INTP, but never both. Which makes me question, is there really any difference or are we just 'over-categorising' things? Bah, forget it. Thanks for everything anyway.

And Jesin, thanks for the info

#### Agent Intellect

##### Absurd Anti-hero.
i definitely see some similarities. i don't have a problem with recognizing or interpreting peoples emotions really, but i often have a problem with responding to them. that may just be me being socially retarded lol, but if someone is coming at me with all sorts of emotions, i don't really know how to react.

i do get very specific interests that come and go a lot, but not as specific as people with aspergers seem to get. i'll get interested in say, physics, but i don't get interested in just the structure of an atom or something. i do sometimes find that i have, as wiki called it "repetitive motor behaviors". i crack my joints (fingers, wrists, back and neck) constantly and i have this thing about having to have things be symmetrical and stuff.

#### mmortal03

##### Redshirt
i definitely see some similarities. i don't have a problem with recognizing or interpreting peoples emotions really, but i often have a problem with responding to them. that may just be me being socially retarded lol, but if someone is coming at me with all sorts of emotions, i don't really know how to react.

i do get very specific interests that come and go a lot, but not as specific as people with aspergers seem to get. i'll get interested in say, physics, but i don't get interested in just the structure of an atom or something. i do sometimes find that i have, as wiki called it "repetitive motor behaviors". i crack my joints (fingers, wrists, back and neck) constantly and i have this thing about having to have things be symmetrical and stuff.
This is very similar to me, especially the last paragraph, which is spot on.

Regarding the first paragraph, I do choose to respond to peoples' emotions, but only when I feel like they are not so overly expressive. It is when there is such constant unnecessary emotion where I opt out. I don't feel like I need to exert myself much in response to most of the things people get so emotional about.

#### Jordan~

##### Prolific Member
My gran saw something about Asperger's during the holidays and I had to prove to her that I didn't have it. One key point was the extremely focused interests - I have widely ranging interests that I tend to flit between. People with Asperger's also struggle with social subtleties, whereas I can read most people like open books (a person with Asperger's couldn't have noticed and thwarted her attempts at manipulation, was the example I gave).

#### Decaf

##### Professional Amateur
Welcome to the age of psychological hypochondria.

#### Agent Intellect

##### Absurd Anti-hero.
Welcome to the age of psychological hypochondria.
somebody trying to convince you you're sick is more like munchausen by proxy isn't it?

#### Decaf

##### Professional Amateur
somebody trying to convince you you're sick is more like munchausen by proxy isn't it?
Well, I think munchausen is about getting attention. I think what's happening here is about making excuses. Parents want their kids to be amazing and then to figure out why they're not, or why their own lives are not what they were "supposed to be".

I think maybe psychological hypochondria by proxy would be better, but I'm sure there's got to be an official term for that.

___

Did you know?
• The DSM (handbook of psychological disorders) originally contained 86 pages. The fourth and latest rendition contains over 900 pages.
• If you are judged to not desire sex "enough" you can be diagnosed with hypoactive sexual desire syndrome.
• If a minor is diagnosed with a psychological disorder by a state employee and you do not seek medication the child can be taken from you by social services.

holy moley.

#### grey matters

##### The Old Grey Silly One
Decaf from what I understand a the state of Texas can force you to put your child on ADD drugs. This is very disturbing considering that the symptoms of ADD and the causes of these so called ADD symptoms are such a mixed bag. It's like when Sigmond Freud saw the mixed bag of psychological problems and created this elaborate theory to explain all of them. A theory that later turned out to be bullshit because of a false hypothesis that childhood sexual abuse didn't happen. The difference being that with psychoanalysis (Freus's "cure" for psychoneuroses) one chooses to be psychosnalyzerd and he or she only looses time and money, with ADD you are screwing with child development and that could be a big problem later on.

As for Einstein, I have seen him labeled as ADD, somewhat autistic, and an INTP. Everyone likes to bring him into their little theory. Although I kind of like the idea of him being an INTP, it sort of justifies my INTP behaviors. After all if the smartest guy in the world can be a certain way as a result of his personality then it's okay for me to do it also. Determinism can work to one's advantage, at least in argument (I wouldn't make a habit of this but it's great to get peole off your back and for aiding your denial.) *smiles reminiscintly*

#### saorsa

##### Redshirt
. After all if the smartest guy in the world can be a certain way as a result of his personality then it's okay for me to do it also.

so in your experience this argument actually convinces people? I really can't see how it would...

to be even minimally convincing, the view you're describing would need some way of connecting Einstein's personality to his achievements in physical theory. you would need to show, or at least plausibly suggest, that Einstein's putative INTP traits in fact caused him to make the extraordinary discoveries that he did...or at least that these traits were heavy contributors. that's a very difficult connection to establish!

consider, for instance, that the argument could just as easily be run in reverse: one could easily claim that it was the quality of Einstein's thoughts that caused him to exhibit the personality traits we've noticed. so, rather than

personality -------> intelligent thought -------> scientific achievement

perhaps it was

intelligent thought ------------> scientific achievement

&

intelligent thought -------------> personality

if this second argument is the case, then Einstein's INTP-ness (if any) wouldn't deserve any credit for his achievements; it would be just a byproduct of his other mental processes. of course, if it didn't deserve any credit for his achievements, there would be no reason for anyone to treat it as a basis for excusing him for failing to conform to social norms. instead, they'd excuse him just for his achievements, or for his mental faculties and his achievements...personality notwithstanding.

of course, you could still claim that people should be more tolerant of your INTP-ness because you're actually a genius....but if you could provide evidence of that up front, why bother with comparing your personality to Einstein's in the first place ?

#### Agent Intellect

##### Absurd Anti-hero.
Einstein spent the latter part of his life sequestered in his house, having little contact with the scientific community, trying feverishly to come up with a grand unification theory. he scoffed at the idea of the big bang, and hated quantum mechanics (his famous quote "God doesn't play dice" came from his refusal to believe the randomness of quantum mechanics). to me that sounds like an INTP gone wrong, and its surely his personality affecting his intelligence.

#### ElectricWizard

##### Active Member
For an INTP gone wrong, he was pretty awesome. Also, wow, he got something wrong, amazing. INTPs gone right are never wrong, presumably, and also aren't curious as to the target of most physicists, and like fame a lot in that they get recognised and talked about by almost everybody.

#### Decaf

##### Professional Amateur
if this second argument is the case, then Einstein's INTP-ness (if any) wouldn't deserve any credit for his achievements; it would be just a byproduct of his other mental processes. of course, if it didn't deserve any credit for his achievements, there would be no reason for anyone to treat it as a basis for excusing him for failing to conform to social norms. instead, they'd excuse him just for his achievements, or for his mental faculties and his achievements...personality notwithstanding.
I believe very much that Einstein was an INTP, but that doesn't mean anything to me personally. Personality is only a part of the psyche and only babies operate purely by it. Saying that another INTPs success was due to his personality is a misidentification, but the area of success is likely related. INTPs are naturally independent thinkers, willing to take on unpopular theories or to have their own theories increasingly differ from the norm. That wasn't his greatest accomplishment in my opinion. He was brave. Intellectually brave, publically brave. Many of us will come up with some theories in our area of expertise. Will we be brave enough to stake our lives on its veracity?

When someone claims the success of others as their own due to common characteristics, it is often connected to same thing that makes us irrationally hostile to others for differences in characteristics. Einstein was Jewish, so should a Jewish person feel pride in Einstein's accomplishments? They didn't do anything, so why should they? I could understand if his parents were proud, but people who've never met him before taking credit?

As far as Einstein being the smartest man in the world, that's like saying <insert famous actress or model name> is the most beautiful woman in the world. Fame has nothing to do with greatness. Much of Einstein's fame came from his work and the controversies surrounding him, but also his hair, which political cartoonist loved to draw. If he'd had a stutter, perhaps his name would have disappeared from history. Perhaps I'm nitpicking, but I bet if we had some way to measure raw intelligence absent of education the smartest man in the world is probably a poor Chinese farmer no one ever heard about outside his village.

Also I feel like what brought on Einstein's later unhealthy INTP behavior was the extraverted society that he was forced to participate in. Fame is not fun for introverts. Maybe when he was at home hiding from his fame he wasn't wasting away trying to find a grand unification theory, but rather happy and enjoying his long denied privacy, working on another of his pet theories.

#### ElectricWizard

##### Active Member
What exactly is 'raw intelligence'?

#### Decaf

##### Professional Amateur
What exactly is 'raw intelligence'?
No idea, but when people talk about smart they seem to be indicating some nebulous idea of someone's intellectual capacity. If you admit that it is probably a combination of perceived potential, creativity, persistence analytical skills and bravery, then defining someone as the best is meaningless.

#### Chronomar

##### NOPE
My parents thought I had a really weak version of that, and, maybe I do, but I really think that for every phycological disorder you can name, every person has a percentage of it in them, even extroverts probably have a little aspergers in them, and even some of the most humble and selfless people are a little narcisistic.

#### poop

##### Redshirt
I once thought I had AS but not all the symptoms were present. This was after I thought I had autism...It turns out I was just INTP; I guess people just noticed something odd about me and started hinting to me through subtle social interactions that there was something wrong with me to the point that I actually questioned my sanity.
This situation in my life enlightened me to the similarities between many psychological disorders such as non verbal LD, autism and the aforementioned AS. Just because similarities exist doesn't mean anything because everyone is retarded in some aspect, others are just retarded to a greater extent. Where one person excels in an area of their life, there is a good chance that another area in their life will be a level of retarded directly proportionate to that of the successful area in their life. Basically, if someone is superior intellectually, they are bound to be slightly retarded emotionally, they are just not considered retarded because they haven't met a set requirement.

#### Decaf

##### Professional Amateur
I wonder if there is any biological backing to the concept of Asperger's. Could it be that even those who seem like clear cut Aspies are simply INTPs who have grown up too long in an psychologically unhealthy environment?

Perhaps I reiterate this too much, but I think the frantic pace at which human uniqueness is being pathologized is scary. Everyone has a full blown mental disorder if you try to compare them to some "normal" value. Its just that some of us have been culturalized enough to recognize that some things we need to keep to ourselves. I don't believe that mental disorders don't exist, but if I were to make a list, it would be a hell of a lot shorter than what we have now.

Seriously... high functioning austism? How is it a disorder if by its very definition it does not hinder experiencing a healthy lifestyle? Doesn't that make it a quirk?

#### poop

##### Redshirt
I wonder if there is any biological backing to the concept of Asperger's. Could it be that even those who seem like clear cut Aspies are simply INTPs who have grown up too long in an psychologically unhealthy environment?

Perhaps I reiterate this too much, but I think the frantic pace at which human uniqueness is being pathologized is scary. Everyone has a full blown mental disorder if you try to compare them to some "normal" value. Its just that some of us have been culturalized enough to recognize that some things we need to keep to ourselves. I don't believe that mental disorders don't exist, but if I were to make a list, it would be a hell of a lot shorter than what we have now.

Seriously... high functioning austism? How is it a disorder if by its very definition it does not hinder experiencing a healthy lifestyle? Doesn't that make it a quirk?
I agree with your opinion of too many disorders, but I disagree with the aspies being intps idea because an aspie doesn't understand social communication, but I think intps can, they just choose not to commit themselves to the social norms due to maybe a lack of interest in such things, or maybe them not finding the person they are communicating with to be true to them.
The people who tried to convince me I had problems were people who just didn't understand my quiet nature because at times I can be lively and satisfy their needs for social communication. In reality they probably just thought I was stupid because I day dream a lot and don't really care where I do it or what situation I do it in.

#### sagewolf

I wonder if there is any biological backing to the concept of Asperger's. Could it be that even those who seem like clear cut Aspies are simply INTPs who have grown up too long in an psychologically unhealthy environment?

Perhaps I reiterate this too much, but I think the frantic pace at which human uniqueness is being pathologized is scary. Everyone has a full blown mental disorder if you try to compare them to some "normal" value. Its just that some of us have been culturalized enough to recognize that some things we need to keep to ourselves. I don't believe that mental disorders don't exist, but if I were to make a list, it would be a hell of a lot shorter than what we have now.

Seriously... high functioning austism? How is it a disorder if by its very definition it does not hinder experiencing a healthy lifestyle? Doesn't that make it a quirk?
Um. I agree that the world has gone way overboard with diagnosing people as having a disorder just because they're not 'normal' (I apparently have ADD XP).

Still, I do not believe INTP and asperger's/autism are the same thing. My brother and (suspectedly) sister are autistic; I am an INTP. My brother does not, AT ALL, get metaphors or figures of speech; he takes everything literally. I've never had this problem. He has the practice of 'tinning', or beating his hands against his chest, to relieve stress or excitement. He also runs all over the place habitually, just because, for the sake of running. Sometimes when I'm thinking or in a bout of creative energy, I pace while I think, but I never run in circles or go hyperactive. Trust me; there are similarities, and the fact that he's autistic, I was said to have ADD and those two disorders apparently run in families do make me think there's a connection, loosely speaking. But I don't think it's the same thing.

BTW: My brother is what is called 'high-functioning'. He is emphatically not 'quirky'; that's what I am (partially because i am proud of my quirk).

#### Agent Intellect

##### Absurd Anti-hero.
copied from INTPc, this is apparently what an ENFJ woman thought of INTPs:

INTPs fall into several unfortunate categories and only one fortunate.

Observe.

Area One: Aspergers/autistic - this cuts the field but what? Half?

That strikes down a large percentage of a type that already hasn't got a member to waste. This leads us hence to:

Area Two: The remainder who are not mentally deranged/held back in any capacity.

This area has to be cut by a half or maybe just a third to accomodate the females, as I am female. (PS - the women aren't ugly. Too bad I'm straight.)

So what we have left are A) the unattractive and B) the attractive.

I have no clue why INTPs have more than their fair share of ugly but they do. I can't even say that I've seen a lot of ugly INTJs. Just INTPs for some reason. Dunno if this has an organic connection to what triggers the high rate of Aspergers or what, but this is Group A. (Sometimes, the autistic guys are cute themselves, but I would not date one.)

Group B includes the INTPs that are masculine, engaging, mostly aware of the people around them, edgy and funny. They stand in stark contrast to Group A, populated by bizarre mutant people who woo women with l33t speek from their parents' basements. Group B ranges from fun guy-next-door appeal to astonishingly "must look away" hot.

#### Inappropriate Behavior

##### is peeing on the carpet
I finally decided to look into Aspergers a little (found this page listing symptoms) and found that I share almost none of those traits (except a delay in learning how to ride a bike).

Many of the syptoms are just the opposite for me. Especially:

Dislike any changes in routines.
Appear to lack empathy.
Be unable to recognize subtle differences in speech tone, pitch, and accent that alter the meaning of others’ speech. Thus, your child may not understand a joke or may take a sarcastic comment literally. Likewise, his or her speech may be flat and difficult to understand because it lacks tone, pitch, and accent.
Have heightened sensitivity and become overstimulated by loud noises, lights, or strong tastes or textures. For more information about these symptoms, see sensory integration dysfunction

I love routine changes especially. Anything to break the hum-drum of everyday life.

#### Agent Intellect

##### Absurd Anti-hero.
Dislike any changes in routines.
Appear to lack empathy.
Be unable to recognize subtle differences in speech tone, pitch, and accent that alter the meaning of others’ speech. Thus, your child may not understand a joke or may take a sarcastic comment literally. Likewise, his or her speech may be flat and difficult to understand because it lacks tone, pitch, and accent.
Have heightened sensitivity and become overstimulated by loud noises, lights, or strong tastes or textures. For more information about these symptoms, see sensory integration dysfunction
the underlined parts are often true for me.

#### Ermine

##### is watching and taking notes
Um. I agree that the world has gone way overboard with diagnosing people as having a disorder just because they're not 'normal' (I apparently have ADD XP).

Still, I do not believe INTP and asperger's/autism are the same thing. My brother and (suspectedly) sister are autistic; I am an INTP. My brother does not, AT ALL, get metaphors or figures of speech; he takes everything literally. I've never had this problem. He has the practice of 'tinning', or beating his hands against his chest, to relieve stress or excitement. He also runs all over the place habitually, just because, for the sake of running. Sometimes when I'm thinking or in a bout of creative energy, I pace while I think, but I never run in circles or go hyperactive. Trust me; there are similarities, and the fact that he's autistic, I was said to have ADD and those two disorders apparently run in families do make me think there's a connection, loosely speaking. But I don't think it's the same thing.

BTW: My brother is what is called 'high-functioning'. He is emphatically not 'quirky'; that's what I am (partially because i am proud of my quirk).
I also don't get why INTP would be confused with autism. My sister is severely autistic, I am strongly INTP. We have hardly anything in common other than a distaste for crowds and well above average skill in certain areas (though it's hard to tell with my sister since she doesn't talk of her own free will). I've noticed that autistic people tend to exhibit extreme S traits, which is a huge contrast with an INTP personality.

#### mmortal03

##### Redshirt
the underlined parts are often true for me.
Same with me. Regarding the first two, it probably isn't because we can't do it, just that we don't want to expend the energy to do it/don't feel it is necessary.

As far as the third one, that could be low latent inhibition, which could be separate from Asperger/Autism.

#### FusionKnight

##### It's not my fault!
Asperger syndrome is named after Austrian pediatrician Hans Asperger who, in 1944, described children in his practice who lacked nonverbal communication skills, demonstrated limited empathy with their peers, and were physically clumsy. Fifty years later, AS was standardized as a diagnosis, but questions about many aspects of AS remain. For example, there is lingering doubt about the distinction between AS and high-functioning autism (HFA); partly due to this, the prevalence of AS is not firmly established. The exact cause of AS is unknown, although research supports the likelihood of a genetic basis; brain imaging techniques have not identified a clear common pathology.
The above is from Wikipedia; the bolded sentence terrifies me. Like ADD, we've constructed an imaginary disease that doesn't even have a pathology! If a person's behavior differs from the accepted "norm", we medicate or condition the person back to someone's view of "normality".

#### Decaf

##### Professional Amateur
Asperger's was originally defined as a stepping stone to try to provide autistic children with a means of being seen as having value. Hans Asperger's suggested that if these "autistic" children could achieve as much success as many of his original case study did, it would support the idea that autistic children had contributable value in society.

Of course we all know how this story goes. He died in 1980 and eventually his research was picked up by drug companies and the psychology community in order to fuel the frenzy of pathologizing society. This is my greatest fear as I being to pursue psychology as a career. What evils might my own work lead to in the wrong hands?

#### mmortal03

##### Redshirt
The above is from Wikipedia; the bolded sentence terrifies me. Like ADD, we've constructed an imaginary disease that doesn't even have a pathology! If a person's behavior differs from the accepted "norm", we medicate or condition the person back to someone's view of "normality".
The exact cause is unknown, but they have a good idea where to look and there is tons of hard science behind it. Asperger's isn't some made up syndrome so drug companies can sell more drugs.

#### Agent Intellect

##### Absurd Anti-hero.
i just got done reading about an interesting study of autistic children.

they did a puppet show for children around four years old (some with and some without autism) where puppet 1 puts a marble in box A, leave the stage, then puppet 2 comes, takes the marble from box A and puts it in box B, then leaves. puppet 1 comes back, and they ask the kids which box puppet 1 will look for the marble in. non autistic children would say box A, because they know that thats where puppet 1 thinks the marble is, but the autistic children would say box B, because thats where the marble actually is.

non autistic infants around about 10-14 months will start pointing at objects of interest to attract other peoples attention to it, and check to make sure that people are, in fact, looking at said object. children with autism often won't, but will in a way just "expect" people to know what object it is they are interested in.

autism isn't just about people being unable to empathize with other people, but they're unable to predict how other people will actually think. they don't seem to have the ability to think "this person must be thinking this".

#### rombomb

##### Redshirt
I am an INTP/Aspie.

INTJ AND INTP who do not deal with aspbergers are quite different than INTP/Aspbergers; able to be quite imaginative in a nonlogical and nonmathematical way and creative.

#### hitode-kun

So there was a thread like this?

Personally I don't see Asperger's as some sort of "condition", but rather as perhaps a personality or an extension of a personality. It's not something that needs to be treated or cured and the therapy for it is almost always BS.

#### AureliaSeverina

##### nice kitty
I work with kids with SEN and from what I can tell, none of the aspies at my school are particularly introverted, quiet or shy. Most of them will chat to anyone and try to make friends with others. If anything they are overfamiliar with people, because they don't worry about social rules like "Don't ask a teacher 'inappropriate' questions". I think INTPs are the opposite, they take ages to open up even to people they've known for a long time. I don't know about INTPs in general, but my INTP friend tries a little bit too hard to say something relevant, whereas the aspie kids at school will talk about random things and some of them are very good at small talk. They don't have the ability to worry about what other people might find relevant, because they don't always understand other people's perspective.
Also, what someone above mention about S characteristics makes sense. Aspies get stuck on details that aren't really that important for 'the bigger picture' and most of the time they can't transfer ideas or skills to new topics, whereas INTPs can see connections everywhere.
I think the reason some aspies are withdrawn is that they get bullied at school and become depressed or suicidal. But if they are in an invironment where they are accepted, they come across as extroverted more often than not. E.g. one of my pupils joined the school only this September and made 'friends' (acquaintances, really) within a week. That would have taken me (an INTJ) about a year and I can't really see most INTPs jabbering away with random strangers within a day of arriving in a new environment.

#### ObliviousGenius

##### Life is a side scroller, keep moving.
I definitely think there's some similarities being an aspie myself. Life is really inconvenient with it to say the least. I'm almost 21 now and the worst days are behind me. It's hard to try to separate my INTP traits and aspie traits and list them but I have almost every symptom of asperger's except bad motor skills (mine are average). INTPs aren't the best empathize-rs but I used to be a lot worse than that. Seriously, I feel nothing at funerals and regular INTPs have some empathy. It's really strange having AS. I've gotten so much better that I've realized just how bad I was from the start at communication and other "deficiencies."

It's not anything that bothers me though. I'm not the elitist aspie or "the evolved human" or whatever they say or think about it, but I do take pride in it mainly because whatever I take interest in I excel at. (or at least excel in everything there is to know about it. lol)

#### ObliviousGenius

##### Life is a side scroller, keep moving.
I work with kids with SEN and from what I can tell, none of the aspies at my school are particularly introverted, quiet or shy. Most of them will chat to anyone and try to make friends with others. If anything they are overfamiliar with people, because they don't worry about social rules like "Don't ask a teacher 'inappropriate' questions". I think INTPs are the opposite, they take ages to open up even to people they've known for a long time. I don't know about INTPs in general, but my INTP friend tries a little bit too hard to say something relevant, whereas the aspie kids at school will talk about random things and some of them are very good at small talk. They don't have the ability to worry about what other people might find relevant, because they don't always understand other people's perspective.
Also, what someone above mention about S characteristics makes sense. Aspies get stuck on details that aren't really that important for 'the bigger picture' and most of the time they can't transfer ideas or skills to new topics, whereas INTPs can see connections everywhere.
I think the reason some aspies are withdrawn is that they get bullied at school and become depressed or suicidal. But if they are in an invironment where they are accepted, they come across as extroverted more often than not. E.g. one of my pupils joined the school only this September and made 'friends' (acquaintances, really) within a week. That would have taken me (an INTJ) about a year and I can't really see most INTPs jabbering away with random strangers within a day of arriving in a new environment.
When I was kid I had ALL of this. Now I can "see" a lot a better. You're right, when in a new situation I'm cautious at first but as the environment feels better I become a lot more "friendly" even obnoxious sometimes, but never within the first few days. That's why in high school I was quiet and serious in one class, and the class clown in another. I know it's not my chameleon because my chameleon makes me act like other people, not just some obnoxious clown that doesnt fit in anywhere.

I've gotten bullied a lot before. In fact all my fights have come against someone bullying me.

Even with all this it's still too hard for me to categorize similar traits between INTPs and aspies.

#### Artsu Tharaz

##### Resident Resident
Hmm. There are still some aspies who do not appear to be what you have just described (e.g. not understanding jokes etc), so that sometimes the only difference between them and 'normal people' (or NTs, if you prefer) is they have social difficulties.

I think there is a fine line between INTPs and the aspies that I have just referred to. Or maybe them guys are just not aspies at all >_>
probably the last thing you said. diagnoses seem to be given out quite liberally.

but then, maybe ASD has simply been defined very liberally? I think multiple things being thrown in as the same thing probably causes a lot of difficulty. Better off dividing into what makes sense on its own, then seeing if the components all fit together.

The topic of what disorders arise from "extreme" examples of the different types is a very interesting one, which should attain a relatively stable basis in the near future.

(my initial feeling on reading Ti vs ASD was that you probably could identify a lot of non-disorderly ASD cognition with Ti cognition - does the ~other minds dilemma~ (a la the puppet show AI described) back this up?)

##### Member
My parents thought I had this as a kid. It used to piss me off. I sort of have an undeveloped pet theory that aspies are just intp or j's that are so far off the charts that it's a problem. I don't know maybe I just feel for them because I have alot of those traits too and I don't feel like there's anything wrong with it. I think I read somewhere that it's recently been theorized that aspergers is so high functioning that some behavioral scientists are starting to reconsider it as just an alternative way of interacting with the world

#### Poiqwepoi

##### Redshirt
I have a nephew who has the asperger traits. I am 44 and he is 8. We perfectly get along. I often feel that his mom (my sister) and his dad don't understand how he is. I am amazed at the things that make him so unique while his mom (my sister) and his dad just want him to be as all the other kids. My nephew has an infinite number of questions about everything while i seem to have an infinite patience to answer him. He sometimes calls me with a list of questions. If find him a cool little boy and very intelligent one, while they are trying to reduce him to a sitting still school boy. I feel very wierd anout this and I sometimes wonder if I am just in denial of his supposedly disease. I cannot bring myself to see this as some kind of disease or a disdainful state of mind.

They say that they can't get his full attention while I managed to have him sit still in meditation. But he is not my son so my intervention is limited. He lives in a very agitated, extraverted and overly emotional familly. He needs peace but does not often find it.

Based on my experience, intp and aspies get along quite well.

P.s. Please forgive me if I sometimes
butcher the english language.

#### pint5

##### Redshirt
I used to think that I'm completely somewhat a bitch because my exsaid that I was selfish or hid my abnormality. Also, when I was a kid I played by myself than with other s. Well, I was not a favorite kid due to the fact that I like to live with or without anybody. They said that I have my own planet.

#### Pizzabeak

##### Heyoka
Sherlock Holmes is supposedly INTP, and some 'literature scholars' suggests he displays aspberger's traits. Also, my little brother supposedly has aspberger's... I'm not sure how that works though, it seemed to have just appeared outta nowhere one day. I blame my parents and myself for not being a good brother at that point in time.

#### Allegra

##### Redshirt
I'm INTP and I was diagnosed with this when I was 12. I, however, do not believe in this diagnosis.

#### Mind Traveller

##### Redshirt
My son was diagnosed with having Asperger's syndrome 5 years ago and I was introduced to the MBTI only a year ago. Since then I have investigated many facets of both lines of thought (being an INTP, I can't help myself there). After much research, I have discovered too many uncanny similarities and traits to outright dismiss connections between the two. Even the language employed, such as references to being 'aliens among us', are identical.

I tested immediate members of my family and discovered one or more INTP males in every generation. Each of us males has had very similar personal disasters with marriage, with the language used to describe us by our respective spouses all being very similar. My Dad is only now coming to terms with his INTPness at age 73. My son, age 13, has all the qualifications of being INTP but I am unable to test him given my immediate relationship with my ex.

In my reading of the various posts, I have not encountered discussions regarding the espression of an individuals' INTPness. My thoughts on the matter generally drift to the intensity of the personality type. I met one INTP on vacation that had a 1% introversion, and yet it seems the forum includes individuals based on the declaration of being INTP without qualification.

Many jumps in logic here, but I would like to hear thoughts on the possibility that Asperger's may be a reflection for the intensity of being INTP, possibly combined with a higher lever of type intelligence than the norm. Possibly as another thread, we can discuss qualifiers for various experiences on being INTP.

#### Ex-User (5841)

##### Banned
Many jumps in logic here, but I would like to hear thoughts on the possibility that Asperger's may be a reflection for the intensity of being INTP, possibly combined with a higher lever of type intelligence than the norm. Possibly as another thread, we can discuss qualifiers for various experiences on being INTP.
Pick a label! Any label! Only \$19.99!

But in all seriousness, I'm a fan of putting the autistic, schizophrenic, and bipolar spectra on X, Y, and Z axes respectively, and using that to visually display one's level of weirdness. 0,0,0 is "normal".

#### Ex-User (5841)

##### Banned
I met one INTP on vacation that had a 1% introversion, and yet it seems the forum includes individuals based on the declaration of being INTP without qualification.
You should post in the Introit. Generally we accept all weirdos regardless of letters.

#### NinjaSurfer

##### Banned
You should post in the Introit. Generally we accept all weirdos regardless of letters.
I highly doubt that two INTPs meeting in real life would strike up a conversation

so, the insinuation is that one of them is not an INTP

I'm thinking that the 1% introvert is not actually an introvert at all