# INTP Memes

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
But these days, I seem to get called a misogynist, and sometimes a Nazi, on a regular basis on internet forums, for having exactly the same attitude that made it so easy for me to accept everyone.
That's exactly it. You're not supposed to be prejudiced, but you're also supposed to keep all prejudices in mind so that you can skirt them in conversation, or speak of them with this elaborate, woke vocabulary which I doubt even LGBTs know unless they also happen to be virtue signallers.

I get why many LGBTs are shell shocked and apprehensive, but if you tell me that youre gay and I look uncomfortable.. Well, consider that I too am shell shocked, and that while I don't mind your sexuality, talking to you is a bit of a PC minefield.

I know what you mean. I was friendly with religious homosexuals (didn't judge), bisexuals (didn't judge), and men who used to be women, back 25 years ago.
Ugh, religious people.

It's okay as long as you don't say "Ugh, jewish people", or "barf, muslims". You gotta hate em all equally. Edit: Oohh, PNB beat my to that one.

#### Cognisant

##### Prolific Member
So if I hate them all equally that's good, but if I hate them all except one group like say Buddhists that's bad even though I'm not a Buddhist? ...why?

Imagine a small Jewish man on a train with many other Jewish people all standing around like cattle because this is in fact a cattle car so there are no seats. There's a pungent smoke in the air and as the train rounds a corner he peeks out a gap in the wood board walls and spies some sort of prison facility. Soon the train comes to a platform, steel on steel screeching as it slows, a young woman comforts a crying infant, maybe the mother maybe a sister it wouldn't be right to ask.

The door is unlocked and opened from the outside, everyone stands staring, the entire way they were eager to get off but now that they've arrived the darkness of the carriage seems safer somehow. A military man in a black uniform flanked by attendants waves them into motion "come on, no time to waste", the small Jewish man is carried out with the crowd but doubles back to speak to the officer.

"Uh, excuse me mister..." reads the insignia "Totenkopf"
"Karl"
"Yes sorry Karl-Totenkopf-sir but I don't think I'm supposed to be here"
"Really you wear the star of David, are you not a Jew?"
"Oh well my family were very devout-"
"Ahh say no more we get this all the time, terrible thing y'know people forcing their beliefs on their children" Karl takes him by the shoulder and leads him through a guarded gate in the chain link fence that's corralling all the others down a different path "take this overpass to the other platform and go to the ticket house, tell them I sent you and they'll fix up your papers and give you one of those stitch removing thingies"
"A seam ripper?"
"Is that what they're called? Yes they'll give you one of those so you can get rid of your star on the way back, and don't worry this carriage will have seats."
"Oh, okay, thank you!"
"No no thank you" Karl pats his back in farewell "you saved me from my ignorance"
I wrote that because it's worth examining that it's somehow worse that the Nazi let the atheist go, it's like how dare he not go and die with the others and how dare the Nazi be so discriminating.

Not that the holocaust wasn't a very terrible thing and I'm pretty sure they didn't let the atheists go as it was as much about eugenics as religion, I'm just saying that maybe in some cases discrimination isn't such a bad thing, i.e. not letting a pedophile work at a kindergarten or refusing to respect the misogynistic beliefs of a religious fundamentalist.

Edit: Actually I wrote it because inspiration hit me like a fucking freight train

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
I don't make the rules, I just make fun of them.

You write really well. I've asked you before, but you didn't answer.. Have you got any longer texts?

The atheists were gassed all the same, and I think most of your readers would be glad the man was allowed to leave, but the story is really good, anyway.

#### Cognisant

##### Prolific Member
Have you got any longer texts?
Not really, I can only do flash fiction.

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
Have you got any longer texts?
Not really, I can only do flash fiction.
I suppose that is all people have the attention span to read, anyway. If we have a good illustrator here, perhaps you could team up and make some graphic novels out of it. I know Inex draws well.

Flash fiction with the quickness:

"For sale:
Baby shoes. Never worn."
E. Hemingway

Anyway.. If you want to share some more flash fiction, I'd really like to read it.

#### moody

##### Well-Known Member
I know what you mean. I was friendly with religious homosexuals (didn't judge), bisexuals (didn't judge), and men who used to be women, back 25 years ago.
Ugh, religious people.

Idk about that, Satanists can be pretty interesting. Apparently, they don't actually worship Satan. Who knew! (Not me....)

#### scorpiomover

##### The little professor
Ugh, religious people.

You can hate everyone equally, religious people, and non-religious people alike. It's not OK to hate on religious people, but not hate on non-religious people.

So ugh, right on back at you.

#### Cognisant

##### Prolific Member
You can hate everyone equally, religious people, and non-religious people alike. It's not OK to hate on religious people, but not hate on non-religious people.
Why because that's discrimination? There's people in this world who would kill me for the "crime" of apostasy and I say fuck them and fuck you by association and if you don't like it that's too fucking bad. I don't have to hate everyone equally or not at all, would you respect the choices of a pedophile, what about a misogynist, a cruel dictator, or someone who brainwashes people into feeling ashamed of themselves?

As I see it people who are religious are dangerously delusional and so I discriminate against them as they ought to be discriminated against.

#### Marbles

##### What would Feynman do?
As I see it people who are religious are dangerously delusional and so I discriminate against them as they ought to be discriminated against.
Atheists are so ANGRY all the time. Why do you hate JESUS? You dont KNOW what happened, so you have FAITH too! You just believe in SCIENCE, rather than GOD. Do you ACTUALLY believe we evolved from monkeys? Then why are there still monkeys around, SILLY? You know, HITLER was atheist, too..

Just in case someone sees this and tries to revoke my atheist card

#### redbaron

##### irony based lifeform
On one hand I think it's important to differentiate between institutionalized belief and individual belief.

But it's proving harder and harder to even turn a blind-eye, let alone be forgiving of even individual beliefs when the current PM of our country and a number of our senior ministers are rapture-believing psychopaths from a Pentecostal cult.

The idea that religion should be free from criticism, or that criticism of it needs to be balanced with other things is perniciously dangerous.

Attacking the ideas is okay. Calling out religious beliefs like rapture, new earth etc. is totally fine in my book, and I have no real problem with people saying that 'insert god here' isn't real and that the whole idea is ridiculous, because people level these sorts of criticisms at lots of ideas.

That said, unless someone's belief is inherently dangerous (i'd argue most aren't) I don't think it makes sense to target the person as being also dangerous. I'd say quite a few skirt that boundary and deserve that scrutiny though.

#### scorpiomover

##### The little professor
Why because that's discrimination? There's people in this world who would kill me for the "crime" of apostasy and I say fuck them
Do you honestly think that atheists are the only people in the world that have suffered from oppression because they didn't share the religion of their oppressors?

Have you heard of the Holocaust?

and fuck you by association and if you don't like it that's too fucking bad. I don't have to hate everyone equally or not at all,
Guilt by association. So because one Jewish person committed murder, you think that justified the Holocaust?

would you respect the choices of a pedophile, what about a misogynist, a cruel dictator, or someone who brainwashes people into feeling ashamed of themselves?
What about an atheist who killed millions because he believed that religion is the tool of oppression?

Do you believe that I should not respect such a person because he's an atheist, or because he killed millions?

If the former, then you've just justified oppression of atheists.

If the latter, then if someone is religious and a pedophile, or a misogynist, a cruel dictator, or someone who brainwashes people into feeling ashamed of themselves, even if he does it in the name of his religion, then you are stating that you should not respect him because of doing pedophilia, or doing misogyny, dictating cruelly, or brainwashing people into feeling ashamed of themselves, but not because of his religion.

As I see it people who are religious are dangerously delusional
and so I discriminate against them as they ought to be discriminated against.
So, you're OK with people being discriminated against and oppressed, as long as they belong to a different group than you?

As I see it people who are religious are dangerously delusional and so I discriminate against them as they ought to be discriminated against.
So...you believe that you have the one true religious orientation, and that everyone who doesn't share your "one true religious orientation" deserves to be discriminated against and oppressed?

#### Animekitty

##### baby marshmallow born today
Life is a power struggle.
Only power can determine what is true and false.
Because those with power survive.
There can't be Truth when you're dead.

INTP meme - Why? - Because I have the power

#### Cognisant

##### Prolific Member
Scorpiomover you should lead by example and respect my beliefs

#### redbaron

##### irony based lifeform
She's asking you questions to determine the boundaries of what kind of discrimination you consider correct against religious people.

There's nothing disrespectful in it.

What you've said is that if someone's religious, you don't just think it's okay to discriminate against them but that they 'ought to be' (they deserve it). The limits of what you consider this discrimination 'ought to be' is a fair enough question.

#### Animekitty

##### baby marshmallow born today

This is true about me on so many levels.

#### scorpiomover

##### The little professor
Scorpiomover you should lead by example and respect my beliefs
I do. But there ARE people out there who believe that atheists are delusional and immoral. Are you suggesting that I should also respect all of the beliefs of that person?

#### Animekitty

##### baby marshmallow born today
Respect has a power scale.
A belief should be respected by the power it has.
Trivial beliefs are no big deal.
It is when they increase to high importance that it is more difficult to move them.

The most difficult thing to change is a core belief.
You cannot move a core belief when by definition you need to respect the problem that contains the greatest inertia. Moving the unmovable is almost impossible so that is when the tactic of mockery occurs. But then they start hunkering down on their beliefs. (rock hardness)

#### Rebis

##### Blessed are the hearts that can bend
"Have you met each other?"
"No but we've talked a lot. We're good friends."

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#### Cognisant

##### Prolific Member
Scorpiomover you should lead by example and respect my beliefs
I do. But there ARE people out there who believe that atheists are delusional and immoral. Are you suggesting that I should also respect all of the beliefs of that person?
I assume you already do, see the difference is that atheists don't share the same beliefs, when someone tells you they're an athiest all that tells you is that they're not a theist. It's as if you told me you're not an athiest, evidently you believe something spiritual but as what those beliefs are I have no idea so it would indeed be unfair to hold you accountable for the crimes committed in the name of Christianity or Islam.

But you're not just a nondenominational theist are you?

Not all Nazis were bad people, some believed in a glorious future, some genuinely thought they were making the world a better place, some no doubt thought the sacrifices and atrocities would be worth it in the end, they might even have been right had they not lost the war. But they did lose the war and they were all held accountable for the decisions made by the few because it was their support, their compliance, that allowed those atrocities to occur.

How is religion any different?

#### scorpiomover

##### The little professor

see the difference is that atheists don't share the same beliefs, when someone tells you they're an athiest all that tells you is that they're not a theist. It's as if you told me you're not an athiest, evidently you believe something spiritual but as what those beliefs are I have no idea so it would indeed be unfair to hold you accountable for the crimes committed in the name of Christianity or Islam.
An atheist is "not a theist" as much as a theist is "not an atheist". So yes, when someone tells you that they are a theist, all that tells you is that they are "not an atheist". So according to your own rules, it would indeed be unfair to hold any theist accountable for the crimes that you would say were committed in the name of any religion.

But you're not just a nondenominational theist are you?
I don't think you have a clue what I am.

Not all Nazis were bad people, some believed in a glorious future, some genuinely thought they were making the world a better place, some no doubt thought the sacrifices and atrocities would be worth it in the end, they might even have been right had they not lost the war.
One might make the same argument for the allied countries such as your own. Had the Germans won the war, then you might have been thought of as the evil ones.

But they did lose the war and they were all held accountable for the decisions made by the few because it was their support, their compliance, that allowed those atrocities to occur.

How is religion any different?

1) Religion is a class noun like "language" and "thought".

Nationalsozialismus was the ideology of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NAZI) party in Germany during the 1930s.

It's like asking "how is language any different?"

2) The NAZI party was a political party.

Religions are religions.

AFAIK, politics is not the same as religion.

3) The NAZI party is generally condemned by all but some small pockets of people.

I don't know of any religion that is generally condemned by all but some small pockets of people, except maybe the religions that used to practice human sacrifice, such as the Celtic religion(s) and the South American religion(s) that used to practice human sacrifice.

4) Only a few hundred/thousand people were put on trial for Nazi war crimes. Over 500,000 people were members of the Nazi party. There were more than 50 million people in Germany at the time.

So clearly, only a few were held accountable for the atrocities done by the Nazis.

#### peoplesuck

##### is escaping
@Elen, good memes.
however I have you beat

we've met before
oof

#### Rebis

##### Blessed are the hearts that can bend
The original context of this was religion but the actual interpretation of "spiritual fantasy" applies to us quite clearly.

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#### Rebis

##### Blessed are the hearts that can bend
I get irritated when something repeats too often, currently it's coronavirus and it's onoy starting in the UK.

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#### nanook

##### a scream in a vortex
when you find your socionics dual

#### peoplesuck

##### is escaping
when you go to the doctor, and they ask: " have you been having any suicidal thoughts?"
but you arent trying to get locked up and put in more debt
"Average Cost for Hospital Stay: MH and SA hospitalizations are, on average, less expensive than non-MHSA stays: $5,700 per MH stay.$4,600 per SA stay. $9,300 per stay for all other conditions.25. jun. 2011" mental health stays range from$3k to $13k BRILLIANT, thats what the people wanting to fucking die need, more problems. god, I feel so inferior to the people who run this bitch. wish I could get them a cup of coffee, they are truly doing gods work. I think I would be more homicidal than suicidal if I were charged$10000

#### Cognisant

I think I would be more homicidal than suicidal if I were charged $10000 #### a_ghost_from_your_past ##### Ujames1978Eternally memes are prejudices based on stereotypes. i expect we'll all become a lot smarter by fully embracing these intellectual shortcuts. this is the way forward. #### peoplesuck ##### is escaping I think I would be more homicidal than suicidal if I were charged$10000
Im still learning to lower expectations and see the bright side.