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more IQ threads please

Black Rose

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Like is this forum even real?
There should be at least 3 to 4 thread s about I Q

yes, we need more.
thanks for bringing notice to this important matter.

what is IQ what does it have to do with intelligence?
I view it as the ability to mentally manipulate.
This is different from creativity which is derived from perception.
Creativity is with intelligence chunking (combining) perceptions together.

IQ tests are statistical models that look at the mental grasp a person has. It looks for the dexterity of the mind. How many segments it can put together. It says nothing about what has been put together or what will be put together. It only looks at the sharpness. metal dexterity. But the model is limited in that people with high mental dexterity are hard to find. The system breaks down. And it measures perception poorly.

Since IQ is segmented the brain must be modular in the way it handles patterns. This is so because the brain must hold the patterns and internally arrange them. Compartments are required. Working together there is a combinatory amount of ways to arrange. Right answers then become drowned in exponential right answers. Answers become tangential to some goals. Many paths to the destination.

If there are many parallel pathways a test can tell within a scope how many paths can be explored by looking at a score. But it cannot give the content of convergent/divergent paths.
 

EndogenousRebel

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Most of the brain receives, sends, and process sensory data. We do math with our five senses and everything in between. It's crazy that this meat compotator does anything approximating reality. But then again, not like we're sharing reality with a smarter being.

IQ is ability to exert an expression of pattern recognition and picking the pattern that other humans of that IQ think is best.

Genes that were good at that were selected because they were a good reproduction strategy. How they achieve that is arbitrary as long as genes were passed on to future generations. IQ for example, has a way higher correlation for mental illness than it has for long-term life success.

Plenty of studies, and from my own experience living around mouth breathing idiots (haha not really) personality traits that can be tested for are better at predicting life-long success than IQ

Even the media big daddy of IQ Peterson is forced to walk back his strong proposition about IQs significance when he's sitting across from a mathematician who actually knows what he's talking about.

factor of G exists is what comes from this. IQ helps proves the g factor exists and proves very little else.

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Why does IQ only go to 145-160 reliably. Because we don't have the test for them. If there's someone with an intelligence of 1 in 7,000,000,000 he would presumably, intuitively score the max score easily, but short of testing every single person on the planet, that's unverifiable. Elon Musk would never put himself out there like that.

Is there a qualitative property of experience that is different with intelligence? That's the interesting question, because supposedly intelligent people are widely diverse and rarely have similarities among them.
 

ZenRaiden

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Yeah but my AQ and EQ is higher so, check mate.
 

Black Rose

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Evolutionarily speaking the brain follows a simple algorithm we can say is human intelligence. Hypothesis testing. Imagination. This follows a scale from big problems to little ones. And many parts complicate the solution. Many things must be tracked at once. The point is: how many can a subject handle (mental dexterity). A number of steps and inferences backtracking and engineering on account. (paths)

If you forget what your doing that's bad.
You want to keep everything in mind and that is partially IQ.
 

Black Rose

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That is not IQ either, because that would mean people with good memories are smarter.
Which is not the case.

short term memory to solve the problem. people give up in the middle of what they are doing because they are overwhelmed by complexity.

I had to quit parts of what I was doing on the IQ test because I was overwhelmed.
 

EndogenousRebel

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Evolutionarily speaking the brain follows a simple algorithm we can say is human intelligence. Hypothesis testing. Imagination. This follows a scale from big problems to little ones. And many parts complicate the solution. Many things must be tracked at once. The point is: how many can a subject handle (mental dexterity). A number of steps and inferences backtracking and engineering on account. (paths)

If you forget what your doing that's bad.
You want to keep everything in mind and that is partially IQ.
Kinda blanket statement that drives up the cost and time of doing research. Kinda like how every box office movie needs CGI these days.

Whatever guarantees some degree of certainty is fine by me, and I'm not quite sure IQ does much outside behavioral studies.

You could easily compensate for short term memory with pen and paper. Someone with a weak personality might give up, but someone who is persistent is not going to let short-term memory be a barrier when it's something so easily dealt with.
 

Black Rose

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Clive Wearing - The man with no short-term memory
 

EndogenousRebel

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1651008690582.png

He has the ability to describe his experience. Your idea of what short-term memory is, should not be based off the title of this video. Fairly certain that the visualspatial sketchpad is what is concidered short-term memory. With specific tasks, you can train to increase volume of information that passes through it. Though of course, it's only for that task.

It is a curious thing though. I'm becoming more and more interested in the idea of emotions being it's own state of consciousness that generate higher states of consciousness. He clearly displayed emotionality when seeing his wife, and when he was thinking about how upset he was about his condition being unable to be treated, he seemed very articulate like you'd expect an artist to be, describing specific grievances like lack of activity.

edit: he has issues with episodic buffer and long term memory
 

Black Rose

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edit: he has issues with episodic buffer and long term memory

He had his hippocampus removed.

The founder of Google Deepmind, his PhD was on the hippocampus.

The central executive has been shown to be the prefrontal cortex.

I lack the visual sketchpad and the phonological loop. "aphantasia"

My central executive works directly with long-term memory.

something like this:

NycNYw8.png
 

scorpiomover

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yes, we need more.
thanks for bringing notice to this important matter.

what is IQ what does it have to do with intelligence?
You can look at what the tests measure, and how those skills are used in reality.

Usually, IQ scores measure both answers to questions about mental skills, and verbal skills.

The mental skills are about seeing visual patterns or symbols, and inferring the correct next item in the sequence, or determining which of the items is out of place, which is another use of being able to infer the missing item in the sequence, which is another version of identifying the next item, when the set is unordered.

That is incredibly useful for identifying patterns in repeated experiments and evidence. It's not so great for real life, because you don't normally get 10,000 experiments. But it's great for industry, as then you have someone that can spot that special pattern that gives the indicator of what factors are the most important in the phenomena being used, and thus what is the best way to solve the problem, on an industrial level.

The visual skills are mostly about identifying vocab correctly, which is necessary for communicating precise technical details in precise STEM fields, where a slight misunderstanding can ruin the whole technology that you're trying to build.

Put together, someone with high levels of both skills, can provide the creative insight, something that is vital to the development of STEM products by wealthy corporations, to make them wealthy, to make WMDs to protect their country, and to develop STEM tech that can advance humanity and even make humans live longer, but that is rare enough that it simply cannot be bought by just having lots of money. Those people have to be sought out, found, and then supported and encouraged to help the world by helping to develop industry.

IQ tests are statistical models that look at the mental grasp a person has. It looks for the dexterity of the mind. How many segments it can put together. It says nothing about what has been put together or what will be put together.
The objective is to obtain the person with the skills to handle almost any such situation, because in real life, their employers will want them to perform several dozen tasks over their lifetime, each with different things that have been put together, and different things that you want to be put together.

It only looks at the sharpness. metal dexterity. But the model is limited in that people with high mental dexterity are hard to find.
If they were easy to find, the corporations and governments could find people with high mental dexterity very easily, even without the aid of IQ testing.

And it measures perception poorly.
The idea is to be mentally dextrous enough that the person with high IQ can look at things from dozens of hypothetical perceptions, till he comes across a perception that accurately represents reality.

IQ for example, has a way higher correlation for mental illness than it has for long-term life success.
Most Western schools teach hours of maths and science every day, which is dead easy for high-IQ people and consequently very boring to them.

The vast majority of people will hardly ever need to use maths or science beyond basic arithmetic and basic CPR in their jobs or the rest of the things they do in life, both of which they'd get taught.

So high-IQ people spend most of their time being bored, while other people get to be shown how to be more like high-IQ people, when they'll never need to be like high-IQ people, which makes their intelligence seem less impressive and less valuable, and so not deserving of any special help.

But schools don't offer classes on communicating to people who are of a very different approach to you, which is what you get when two people have different IQs. So that makes it incredibly hard for high-IQ people to communicate effectively with average people. That in turn makes it incredibly hard for high-IQ people to know how to communicate their wants and needs to most people, in a way that will result in most people understanding their wants and needs and ensuring that their needs and wants are met.

Basic practical skills are treated in a somewhat similar manner. There was no "woodworking for dummies" classes in school. There was only "woodworking classes for those who already know what they're doing making things" classes, which doesn't really bode well for those who have more natural ability for abstract thinking, than practical tasks like fixing a leaky tap.

At the same time, they are also encouraged by the media to think that social skills are something people develop naturally, which gives high-IQ people the impression that their high IQ is some kind of mental handicap that is the price one pays for having a high QI.

So the result is that they think that there's no point in developing basic social and practical skills, because they think they can't, and so they don't try to develop them, and so they don't develop those skills.

So if their parents didn't raise them in a very supportive & encouraging environment, then many of them can still be stuck in a mode where they think that social skills & practical skills are beyond their mental capacity to learn.
 

Black Rose

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In society, the range of stem-like tasks available is 10% between 120 and 145. This range makes it easy enough to collaborate in a social setting. But above 145 socializing suffer. Because 1 in 1,000 or 1,000,000 what communication can happen? How do you get a group of them together? Doesn't happen. But the stem task is real high. But how to blend in, very isolating.

 

ZenRaiden

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The thing about IQ is its largely about measuring specific skills in specific ways.

Seeing connecting the dots about things that others cannot connect is intelligence, but human like intelligence non the less.
We could argue that most problems humanlike stem from the way we survive and live, not necessarily from intelligence.

Then again we know animals do some math too.
We know animals can tell more or less values of group of specific objects .
We know as kids we can do this too.

We know part of what makes human brains efficient is its ability to connect one idea with other idea, instead of going from new completely different model to model.
While this makes human brains efficient it also means we make mistakes, but it allows us to look at various objects through sensory and use old patterns to find new patterns in new objects.

So most of human intelligence is about efficiency.

IQ however does not translate to intelligence.

What I mean by this is you can be Aztec guy with a IQ whatever, but you are essentially covered in what amounts to no armor and your weapon of choice is a stick.

On the other side you might have high functioning alcoholic spaniard on verge of dying from a voyage over atlantic covered in heavy plate armor that makes him look like a freaking idiot, waving what seems to be a one shot boom stick.

Even if that aztec warrior has IQ of you know who, he is dead meat.

When we view IQ from academic point of view we also lack perspective.
Just because you understand more and are smarter, does not translate to more overall.

We tend to view IQ as function independent of environment and of other people.

Not in asocial sense, but in function.

For example you can design a high tech chair you are still going to waste effort and money, even if its smart design. That chair is likely to never be sat on by many people and you will fail.

That is not a bad thing though all I am saying is that IQ really starts amounting to something in stable systems.

Which is usually civilization.

Which probably explains why in the most early civilized parts of the world with higher pop and more density we also see more higher IQs overall.

Not only its more likely to be measured there and be made use off, but also its likelier to crop up in the gene poll.

But do you really need higher IQ to do ordinary things. Not really.

I mean it helps, but its not something useful.
Its the equivalent of a fast car, getting places within speed limit, because there is no advantage of going faster.
 

Black Rose

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Resources do matter but so to the minds utility to use them.

1948 Walt Disney's "So Dear To My Heart" clip "It's Whatcha Do with Whatcha Got"

 
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