• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

Okay try to type me if you can?

Chad

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 12:11 AM
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
1,079
-->
Location
Westbrook, Maine
[FONT=&quot]I have gone through a few conversations now and I have seen the value of the cognitive functions and the disadvantage of pigeonholing yourself as one dormant function without exploring your other functions completely.

I am not comfortable with adding a video of myself right now but I can describe some functions/ dominate habits in my life as well as some key visual cues that I know I have.

First off I have not always been as emotionally stable as I am right now.

As a child I was prone to throwing tantrums if I didn't get my way. I cried a lot for unknown reasons. I also had anger issues that I couldn't control at the time.

The anger became so bad that at one time a picked up a desk form the middle of a class room and threw it my teacher in the front of the class room. As a child you could say that I was damaged goods.

I had been born into a (physically, sexually and neglectfully) abusive home form birth until at least 4 maybe longer I don't really know. I know I was in Forster/Children homes and heavily medicated by the age of 6. I was adopted at the age of 8 and form that point until I was 10 my mother was slowly weaning my off of ADHD medication which she says made me zombie like. The incident with my teacher was when I was 9 years old in second grade. I remember having server emotional issues until around the age 12. I honestly don't remember anything about my life before being adopted at the age of 8. One thing I remember about my early years is that even then I was spacy (lost in my own thoughts). Even in my emotional state I would have more conversations in my head than with my other people about my problems.. Being in my head was always my safe place.

Around 12 years old I stated to get fascinated by archeology which directly led to my fascination with paleontology. Starting in middle school I started studying Penguins. March of the Penguins is in my opinion the best documentary ever made. These are all subjects that I am still fascinated with today. In high school I excelled in all my science and math classes and first became interested in history, government, and economics after taking classes with a teacher that I connected with on an intellectual level. My sophomore year of high school I took advanced placement Chemistry (It was a mix up in the scheduling I shouldn't have been able to take it until my senior year.) I fell in love for the first time with the simplicity of Chemistry. I went on to score a 101% in the course. Making it only one of 4 classes that I have ever been scored perfect on. The others being high school U.S. government class, high school Economics class both taught by the same teacher and the last class was my college U.S history class I took my freshmen year of college. I say this to say that I am not a genius, however, when a subject clicks with me and I can truly understand the teacher/professor I can understand almost anything. Case in point I took AP Calculus in high school and got a 95%. The first time I took the Calculus 2 I failed the first test and dropped out of the course because I believed the professor marked answers wrong that were correct just because I didn't show all my work. I then retook Calculus 2 with another professor and got and 79% in that class. Also like I said, I received a 101% in my high school AP Chemistry class (before even taking basic chemistry) but I only got A in one of the 9 chemistry courses I took in college.

To continue my story I developed an interest for Chemistry in high school and I went on to start majoring in Chemistry and minoring in History in college. Than my junior year of college I found out that they were adding a Forensic Chemistry degree starting the next year. Therefor I tried to speak with my adviser and orientate my classes to transfer into the new major. However, my advisor wasn't a great adviser and when I switch majors the next year I realized that I was far behind in getting either my chemistry or my Forensic Chemistry degree. Therefor after my senior year, I decided to change my major to something new because I didn't want my financial aid to expire before I could finish a degree. Therefore I changed to Philosophy and really feel in love with the course work. However after my 5th year of college I was informed that I didn't have enough financial aid to finish my last semester of the program. So instead of dropping out without a degree I agree to accept an general associate’s degree with a concentration in Chemistry. Basically, I could have picked form a concentration in Chemistry, History, Philosophy, or Criminal Justice/Lost prevention. From this I can honestly say I am very poor at planning out my future and I am not focused intellectual speaking. Grade wise I did fine in college I ended up graduating with a 2.7 GPA. I never had a problem with getting C’s and sometimes I didn’t do as well on subjects that didn’t interest me as much.

Since leaving my emotional damaged state behind I have become more rational when making choices. I wouldn't say I don't have emotions anymore I just have no faith in my emotions being relevant to the reality of any given situation. I completely disregard my feeling about something when I make chooses I have to make since of them and they need to fallow a logical path. I think the only thing I have been able to separate form this process in my decision to marry my wife. However, even this was rationalized I knew that if we were both going to stay in this marriage we would both have to be happy and emotionally stable enough help each other through the difficult times.

On a social note I have been described as odd and slightly awkward I don't have an issue making friends but I never really get close to people. I don't think I am scared of people because honestly they fascinate me. However, I tend to be an observer in social situations and I separate myself form everyone else to meet this end. My fascination with other peoples personality quirks has a tendency to keep me at a distance while I am interacting with others. All my relationships are at least to some degree are cerebral. I naturally analyze people, places, and animals. It’s all science to me. Since my friends and family members are often nothing more than scientific social experiments I come across as lacking emotional empathy. My marriage is the one place where I try to keep this to a minimum however; even there I can't help but analyzing things especially if I see a problem.

As far as personal habits go I am not organized externally at all. It so bad that I can't even write are talk in an organized fashion. This makes my come across as dumb and sometime Autistic on forum sites. However my brain is quite functional, it’s my external organization skills are abysmal. This is a cause of frustration for me some times because everything seems so fluent and well thought out in my head, then I read some of my post a week or so later and I wonder how I ever passed second grade. I find organizationally computers are life saver. They are the one place where I can actually create things that make since to other people not just me. Excel, Word and Power Point are some of my favorite computer tools to use because I can edit them again and again until my ideas come out of my head and into view for the masses.

However, as a counter predicament, I have been known to obsess over some very fine details. This is most common when other people miss a key point in an argument/discussion. I can also clean or organize an area to perfection only to forget about using my organization the next day or even an hour form finishing it. I was raised with a perfectionist (as far as organization and cleaning goes) mother so I learned how to please her over time. I still have all of these skills and I can use them however, I am repulsed by them and I generally feel that it unnecessary to get that worked up about the outside order of things. Mostly because my mother perfectionism was highly tied to her emotional need to be accepted, this has always bothered me intuitively.

As a child/teenage I had a habit of making hard fact conclusions about everything. At that time in my life everything was black in white. However, the old I have become the more displeased I am with the idea of knowing everything as black in white. This is primarily because I have learned more and I have realized that many of my earlier conclusions are wrong. Now a day, I wish to keep an open mind to everything. I have learned that almost every idea comes from some place and expresses some part of reality. Therefore the only true way to distinguish truth from myth or perception is to look at it form as many view points as possible. Since I will never know everything my personal concept of truth will always be evolving. I basically start with the conclusion that I am always going to be wrong. Like Socrates said "true knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing". The day I figure everything out is the day I am truly ignorant of reality. Therefor I no longer see black and white anymore. Even things that most people see a truly evil or truly good I see as grey. It’s impossible to know everything that caused some event to happen. As humans we are not capable of pure evil or pure good. This doesn't mean I don't take a stand or make conclusions about my environment it just means that I am aware that my opinion is likely to change and I accept it as a positive progression of my intellect instead an uncomfortable change of my personal doctrine.

If you have any specific question that I have not mentioned or if you would like me to elaborate farther on a given topic I will be as open as I can with you.

Here are a few visual keys that I know of.
I can't hold eye contact with another person. Literally, it causes me to get a head ache (I am sure it’s purely psychological). [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
I fidget all the time with my hands my feet and I chew things, I have a very hard time sitting completely still this is something my mother tried unsuccessfully to train out of me. I like to play with thing with my hands when I am talking with someone. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
People say they love my smile thought I don't smile as much as I did when I was a child. I don't think it has anything to do with happiness because I am not particularly unhappy with my life.
My laugh is childlike. (My wife says I giggle like a little boy)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
I have very little control over my personal volume level and it seems to go all over the place. (I am hard of hear but it seems much worse when I am trying to judge my own voice.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]An interesting side note is, I don't ever actually hear myself talk my inner voice is much loader than my vocal voice even when I am yelling at the top of my lungs. I can't actually hear it. Because of this, I hate hearing my recorded voice because to me it sounds nothing like me. It sounds like someone else is trying to use my words. I also speak with a lisp that comes for learning to speak later in life. I was extremely hard of hearing when I was young and I didn't learn how to speak until I started going to school. I have had 3 surgeries on my ears since than to get to the point where I can hear at about 75% of normal on a good day. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have been known to speak emotionally sensitive words at times that have led my mother to tears (happy tears). However, I don't ever remember these words coming form an emotionally deep place. My wife has also mentioned to me that at times I am very sensitive to her and other times I am not. I don't actually remember feeling emotional when saying some of these things but my voice must come across as emotionally sincere at times.

Again ask me any question that you may have about my. I will try to be an open book. I have typed myself however, I may have missed some of the intricacies that some of the other members of this forum have a talent for. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Please feel free to give you opinion.

If I question your opinion, it’s because I don't understand your reasoning. Not because I am offended. I believe that I am INTP with TINE cognitive functions. However, my biases may play a role in this. My hope of this exercise is to learn something about myself so don't feel afraid to be brutally honest with me. Like I said before if I don't see why you’re saying what you’re saying or I don't agree with what you are saying, I will try to clarify my point or ask you more question about your opinions. Please realize that I am not taking offense to you opinion I just wish to understand it better. I will try not to be offended by any type because they all have some value and better understanding my own value well help me live to my fullest potential in the future.[/FONT]
 

Chad

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 12:11 AM
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
1,079
-->
Location
Westbrook, Maine
Okay so maybe I should just allow people to ask me questions and I will answer the question and you can try to type me from there. I am really just trying to apply some typing skills to myself since the only tool I have been able to use thus far are the online test that could honestly be mistaken do to my biases. I understand that my description end up being very long winded.

If anyone could offer there expertise that would be appreciated.
 

loveofreason

echoes through time
Local time
Yesterday 5:11 PM
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
5,492
-->
I'm not an expert but I want to say that it's impressive to have reached such a sense of stability and self-acceptance as you seem to have, after traumatic origins.

By the sound of those early years, there are alot of complicating factors affecting typing - not least diagnosis of and medication for ADHD. I know someone with a similar story. He also types as INTP, but I think in both cases it's important to remain open to Ne-dom (NeTi) being a possibility. The need to observe and take in as much information/stimulus from the environment as possible, is an external orientation - even if you're not acting like an extravert. It's the kind of cognitive dominance that gets one labelled ADHD as a child.

I've seen the adults grow up to be very sombre, very internalised with their thoughts, but still primarily perceptive (Ne), rather than judging (Ti).

(Are they one and the same? Cognitive type and patholgy? I don't know...) But I do have a child who manifests the same way. I imagine most other parents would have had him medicated by now. Knowing my friend who grew up abused and medicated for his personality, I really want to avoid that eventuality as long as possible... but maybe, maybe... he, my son, and you, truly all were little monsters no one could live with without drugs ;)

(I hope it's ok to make light of the past - humour and insanity belong together. I mean... I'm the one going insane here, in my family :phear:)

*coughs*

Well... that's my reflection on your story. Based on what you've shared, consider ENTP (NeTi) at least as likely as INTP. You certainly sound like a person primarily orientated to gathering more information before you render a temporary and flexible judgement. From experience, childhood misfortune is great at placing a selective preference for Ti over one's other native functions, even if Ti is not naturally the lead. It's a tremendously relieving refuge.
 

Chad

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 12:11 AM
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
1,079
-->
Location
Westbrook, Maine
I'm not an expert but I want to say that it's impressive to have reached such a sense of stability and self-acceptance as you seem to have, after traumatic origins.

By the sound of those early years, there are alot of complicating factors affecting typing - not least diagnosis of and medication for ADHD. I know someone with a similar story. He also types as INTP, but I think in both cases it's important to remain open to Ne-dom (NeTi) being a possibility. The need to observe and take in as much information/stimulus from the environment as possible, is an external orientation - even if you're not acting like an extravert. It's the kind of cognitive dominance that gets one labelled ADHD as a child.

I've seen the adults grow up to be very sombre, very internalised with their thoughts, but still primarily perceptive (Ne), rather than judging (Ti).

(Are they one and the same? Cognitive type and patholgy? I don't know...) But I do have a child who manifests the same way. I imagine most other parents would have had him medicated by now. Knowing my friend who grew up abused and medicated for his personality, I really want to avoid that eventuality as long as possible... but maybe, maybe... he, my son, and you, truly all were little monsters no one could live with without drugs ;)

(I hope it's ok to make light of the past - humour and insanity belong together. I mean... I'm the one going insane here, in my family :phear:)

*coughs*

Well... that's my reflection on your story. Based on what you've shared, consider ENTP (NeTi) at least as likely as INTP. You certainly sound like a person primarily orientated to gathering more information before you render a temporary and flexible judgement. From experience, childhood misfortune is great at placing a selective preference for Ti over one's other native functions, even if Ti is not naturally the lead. It's a tremendously relieving refuge.

Thanks for the insight. I have consider that I could possibly be ENTP instead of INTP I general score more I than E however its no were near my most dormant function.

I find unlike many Introverts I am not afraid of people. I like isolation and solitude but that only really because it allows me to think clearer. I think if anything I might be borderline I/E. However that is good insight thank you.

However the NeTi function doesn't seem to fit me better then TiNe, I find that I am more open minded than many INTPs I have meet on forum sites.

I am sorry to hear about your son. I can relate to the struggle of not being able to control yourself it really sucks. For me it took a really patient mother and lost of external control until I learned how to function and control myself. My Ti function is most like form my fear of losing this control.

As an adult I am quite stable even though I am most likely still ADHD. I don't take any medication for it and beside the obvious side effects of fidgeting I am quite well adjusted. My mother had a lot to do with this.

This is why I feel the need to someday pass on this patient firm love to a child in need like myself.

Its not easy though my parents adopted 7 children and 5 of them have really screwed up there lives quite a bit. Only me and my youngest sister left my parents well adjusted and my little sister was only 3 when she was adopted. My other siblings were 5, 7, 9, 14, and 18 (taken in technically he was too old to be adopted) when they were adopted.

http://www.personalitypage.com/ENTP.html

After reading this I see some of my personal characteristic in the ENTP. The only thing is I and an ENTP that is actually introverted by choice (maybe). However, that is some great insight.

Does anyone else wish to add anything?
 

cheese

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 2:11 PM
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
3,188
-->
Location
internet/pubs
Some stuff sounded like polar Fe, ie INTP. Childlike smile/laugh, internal sense of self conflicting uncomfortably with external self (your voice) + sense of disconnect, can't hold eye contact (need to break off to maintain Ti processing), etc. Plus making strong black/white conclusions when young - Ti dom - and Ne developing later as you realised the need to take in more data and have your perspectives evolve.

INTPs aren't necessarily afraid of people, and appearing somewhat extroverted isn't impossible. If that's your main reason for wondering about ENTP, you can probably drop it.

It sounds like your developmental path (assuming functions Ti-Fe and Ne-Si) was first Ti-judgement, then learning over time (Si) that your judgements are likely to be based on incomplete data, hence the need for constant openness to new, current information (Ne) and the ability to adapt with that (Ne). It's apparently not uncommon for the tertiary to be used ahead of the auxiliary, because it shares the same orientation (introversion in this case) as the dom and is hence less 'foreign' to use. So you might have a very solemn, Si-heavy INTP child who grows into someone who appears sociable and able to play and flow with the current situation (having learnt to use Ne more comfortably) - which appears extroverted. Look at this:

Chad said:
[FONT=&quot] I have learned that almost every idea comes from some place and expresses some part of reality. Therefore the only true way to distinguish truth from myth or perception is to look at it form as many view points as possible. Since I will never know everything my personal concept of truth will always be evolving.[/FONT]

You've phrased it with 'truth' as the end goal. You learnt to *adapt* to a more fluid relationship with truth, because of your new knowledge that your worldview/map (Si) would never be complete. "Therefore" the only way you'll get to real/complete/precise truth (Ti end goal) is to broaden your horizons and explore as many angles as possible (Ne divergence of Si maps) ... for the sake of getting to truth. This is all happening in service of Ti, which points to Ti dominance. It's not that other types can't be truth-seeking, but you're actively getting out there and exploring for the sake of *weeding out errors* in judgement. (Perception doms like ENTPs might also like to keep their perception clear from bias, though I think the key is that generally, they perceive without bias anyway, till judgement develops a little further. I think. Don't quote me on this.)

This is actually how I developed (I think). Ti-Si, and learning gradually to expand with Ne (through continual updating of Si with life experience). I have also seen ENTPs start off whacky and become sombre and much more weighed down over time (more use of Ti and Si anchoring).

But it could be something else.

Btw, I don't mean this is a strong case for you being INTP. Just based on what you've said, and the fact that you've narrowed it down to ENTP vs INTP. I would lean in favour of INTP based on this (judgement-dominant). It's not concrete though, and I'm not sure how the abuse would factor into it. Plus I don't know how reliable self-reporting is, I don't know how complete the data is, and I may not even be capable of interpreting it correctly. But in a world where your type has been accurately narrowed down to two possibilities and the information you've provided is sufficient, I'd suggest INTP. :p Sorry for being tedious about this. I hope this is useful or at least interesting.
 

Chad

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 12:11 AM
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
1,079
-->
Location
Westbrook, Maine
Thanks you. for your Input. I would figure that even if I do have some ENTP traits my dominate behavior does tend to be INTP. I am quite comfortable spending only a minimal time around anyone (besides my wife who I live with). However, I am quite comfortable talking to people and new people don't bother me. I think I have told my complete life story to a least a dozen unsuspected strangers in my life. (not including this post) I actually have a much more difficult time with people who think they know me well. Mostly because they have passed judgments on me that have more to do with who they are and how they interact other people on average. Than anything to do with who I am as a person.

I am extremely uncomfortable with people believing false things about me. I am not sure why. I am very open to criticism as long as it factual. As soon as people start guessing incorrectly I can get very defensive. This is primarily why I am driven to be introverted over extroverted.
 

cheese

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 2:11 PM
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
3,188
-->
Location
internet/pubs
^Very interesting! That sounds like polar Fe as well (I think). [Obviously, polar Fe means Ti dom.]

More thoughts:
Sometimes with INTPs there's almost a fear of other people's perception. Strong Fe users actively push out/project their persona onto others, whereas low Fe tends to not be strong enough to push out and hence tends to feel harassed into accepting whatever is projected onto it. (We may notice emotions, relations between people, accidentally sound encouraging/sensitive without feeling it as you did with your wife [because Fe is directed at other people], but not know how to *actively* harness it to use our emotions or projected emotions to influence, organise and mobilise others.) And because Ti finds errors in judgement uncomfortable, it feels compelled to correct these flaws in others' perception of oneself. It may attack the error directly, which can make the Ti individual come across strange or overly defensive, or just feel highly uncomfortable with the 'error' sitting in the space between them and feeling trapped in the other's faulty view of a non-existent persona. (This trapped feeling comes from low Fe's lack of knowledge on how to intentionally alter dynamics and intentionally project a persona. Past experience may also have taught it that verbal correction simply leads to the perception of another inaccurate persona [belligerent/sensitive/easily offended/aggressive].)

With new people, there are less pre-formed judgements about you trapping you in your interactions, which can make it easier to talk with strangers than otherwise. Again, projecting a persona (or directing the conversation in a way) that will *emotionally* convey the facts you believe true about yourself is usually not an option because of the effort and skill needed. Blank slates are easier to navigate.

Another aspect of of inaccurate perceptions which can grate Ti-Fe more than others is the feeling that the other arrived at their conclusion through emotions and assumptions. In order for Ti to (feel it can) do its work properly, it needs to detach from interpersonal dynamics and ties (Fe) which might cloud its judgement. This ironically gives many Ti doms an aversion bordering on disgust and derision for Fe or even emotion in general. The extreme discomfort you feel may be partly from being painted with a brush stained by 'inferior', 'inaccurate', 'clouding' emotions rather than facts. A knee-jerk, stronger-than-usual reaction to what your dominant drive (detachment) finds troublesome and has learned to find distasteful.

Does any of this sound like it may fit you?

I should also add that I could probably argue for Ne dom in almost the exact same way, just by changing the words a little. :eek: Now I'm worried.
 

Chad

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 12:11 AM
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
1,079
-->
Location
Westbrook, Maine
I can relate to much of this.
 
Top Bottom