Psychopathy through exposure

[Rebis]

Thoughts?

 

[EndogenousRebel]

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” - Sun Tzu

Understand the mental/physical enemy. I don't think it's that hard for humans to mentalize malevolent people. In our own bloodline it is likely that at least of couple of people have murdered others in cold blood. We may be naive now due to society, but the hardware is still the same. I've written on here before about the theoretical bell curve of human morality. Most people are in the mediocrity of good in evil. We have few saints, and few devils.

The question I'm interested in is the one about change being possible. Can people change their true nature? I don't know. Dragon Ball has a character like Vegeta who is turned good, for whatever reason, but then it has someone like Frieza, who seems to be unrelentingly evil. They both have pride, but Frieza is different in some way. Deepest anime ever.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

puts on mod hat
Not a big deal, but please avoid making whole new threads with only a video for an op with no meaningful input of your own. This is to prevent proselytizing, advertising, and general clutter. We have several video threads for that.

takes off mod hat

lolz jp is a smoothbrain cuck

 

[Black Rose]

Become mildly psychopathic to cure PTSD.

ah, nope

 

[Rebis]

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” - Sun Tzu

Understand the mental/physical enemy. I don't think it's that hard for humans to mentalize malevolent people. In our own bloodline it is likely that at least of couple of people have murdered others in cold blood. We may be naive now due to society, but the hardware is still the same. I've written on here before about the theoretical bell curve of human morality. Most people are in the mediocrity of good in evil. We have few saints, and few devils.

The question I'm interested in is the one about change being possible. Can people change their true nature? I don't know. Dragon Ball has a character like Vegeta who is turned good, for whatever reason, but then it has someone like Frieza, who seems to be unrelentingly evil. They both have pride, but Frieza is different in some way. Deepest anime ever.

I think there's an exposure element a lot of people forsake, most define their world based on what they know. You see a lot of teenage girls obsess over psychotic killers (at least I did), and the reason for that obsession is seeing their moral axis as extreme, I feel the allure is they can't see those qualities exist in other people based on environmental stimulus. You see documentaries online, especially american ones "This guy.... was pure evil. Dramatic black and white capture of him smiling"

There's shock factor because people see at as taboo, and the more virtualised our media becomes the more the idea exists within the fantasical world of the mind. You'll see comments like "Wow you exhibit this behaviour, you're such a psychopath!" This drives home they've not thought of these qualities as existing in all individuals on a scalar, but one that's associated with the ever elusive, mythical unicorn: The pyschopath!

Going back to true nature, I think it depends on a few factors: Ability for self-criticism, accepting your identify (i.e. it's not subject to change) this also exists in pride, and the ability to experience life-defining/epiphanic moments. If you put yourself under self-criticism you will realise your flaws in relation to a goal you set out to achieve, if you take agency you can understand what is needed from you to achieve this goal. This goal can also be psychological: to overcome fear you must jump into the belly of the demon, if you're terrified of dying well maybe you should live on the edge a bit. This is simply building resillience through exposure which I think can only be identified by an external force like a psychologist which i don't think much people have an experience with, alternatively you can build resillience by yourself through self-analysis and constructive decision making.

Accepting your identity, or taking pride in who you are is solidfying your personality to a degree that change occurs less. "I'm anti-social and a nerd, therefore I am not x,y,z." well yes, if you define yourself as that then there's little room to grow. When people create an identity they almost try and reinforce this through behaviours that synergise with their identity, like going to every comic book convention and comic-book shops everyday to be seen as top nerd: while they like comic books on a genuine level, it always seems exaggerated to me when people overestablish their interests. I don't support football teams because football is dumb, comics are superior! (Maybe i've seen too much Fedorians). Exaggerated identity is a lot of what we consider pride to be, someone beat up a person one and now they can beat everyone up! Prideful people base their pride on an experience that is true but exaggerate it due to self-importance.

The last one experiencing epiphanys is really based on your exposure to life, and to a degree your emotions. I'm not going to get an epiphany if a random person buys me a chocolate bar, it may've not been an epiphany when I was younger but I certainly remember the event taking place and how surprised and happy I was, it just stuck with me. I think people that are more emotional have the benefit here given these life-defining moments usually hold a element to their lives they had not already considered. "From that point on, I swore to never........" "I nearly killed a guy last night for annoying me.... I woke up the next morning, took a look in the mirror and said I'll never drink again!" If you're disassociative or unemotional I can't imagine you'd experience much of these moments, sad times.

If you understand what you're capable of, which is you can be good and evil then you can decide who you are rather than being ignorant. I don't imagine much people view themselves as bad, or consider that they can be assholes. For people to justify their actions, they must assume some infallibility with their character, otherwise every action would be a moral self-analysis, which wouldn't be too effectual staying inside your mind all day. I'm not surprised at the evilness of people's behaviours, their psychology, their controlling behaviour, manipulation, beratement of others, their disgust etc. I accept that is true for most people, I do not try to control their behaviour by insulting them because I want them to be the person I expect. I do find myself amoral in this case, the main difference is I say based on social expectation they are considered an asshole or manipulative, but I do not expect them to change to fit my worldview. Accept the individual first then you will learn their behaviour. Manipulators aren't simply malevolent, it's easy to identify them as that, but if you look under the surface you can see why they subconsciously do that, what are their insecurities and so on.

People say don't humanize monsters, I say humans are capable of being monsters, and it's best to understand the range of behaviours such a beast can exhibit. Angels above me, Demons below, the hearts of men appear not wise or mellow.

 

[Rebis]

Become mildly psychopathic to cure PTSD.
ah, nope

I think there's some effectiveness in it, when we normalise an idea it's usually normalised through the qualities we exhbit, otherwise I see the instigator as alien and me as vulnerable. I don't think it'd cure it but exposure therapy and reinforcement prior to a perceived traumatic event will help you be less fragile in future encounters.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

At 17 I was a cashier, a man came by and wanted to use his card to get cashback from a purchase, he decided to buy a snickers bar, and on a whim gave it to me. I would say this was a pivotal moment in my life.

I feel like living in a world where everyone is developing their "shadow" is a really problematic thing though. Most people are assholes, most people are also good. Even the people who lean good are susceptible to selfishness and inconsideration. I guess I must admit that people that lean asshole are also equally capable of being altruistic or empathetic, but I feel like being an asshole is easier than being good, we live in a dog eat dog world after all, and I'm sure most people see it as a zero-sum game. Society is the major force pushing people towards good behavior. Ideally I would say that people who are monsters should focus on training their compassion and people who angles should practice being a monster. There is a hefty middle, so those people can choose between either or, and I have a feeling that more often than not they are inclined choose in self interest. I have no clue what they should be doing, sounds like their brains are doing the most work (on average).

I do agree with you on the basis that identity does have a big role in someones behavior, more specifically morality. Once I visualized a character for myself so see what image would pop up, and what I saw was a librarian looking fellow in a Fallout wasteland setting, which gives me plenty of wiggle room to be however I want, and shows the bleak outlook I have on the times.

Either way, I think it's not wise to apply this "fix" broadly to PTSD, even JP says that it's the solution to some of them, although he doesn't go to in depth with why in this 5 minute vid. I think most of the pain that comes from PTSD is the idea that one will never be the same after being traumatized, like something was stolen from them. I would quote JRR Tolkien but fuck that. I do agree that everyone should have an intricate understanding of evil, but not just evil, a variety of things such as suffering and complacency.

On another note.
NBC has a show called The Good Place. It revolves around someone who was sent to heaven by accident and explores many themes of ethical philosophy. It's a quirky funny-happy-go-lucky-feel-good show so they are inclined to portray that change is possible in people. Currently, this final fourth season is exploring the capacity for a narcissist to change, and I'm actually looking forward to seeing how they show it if at all. I recommend it.

 

[Kormak]

Thoughts?

That makes sense. Sounds like my relationship with my grandmother. She is sort of a narcicistic high functioning sociopath, who has destroyed my mother's life, made me and my brother's childhood a living hell and e_e refuses to die, that 92 yo bitch. I have 0 empathy, simpathy or anything for her and even enjoy seeing her suffer to a certain extent and I know this because she fell recently and broke her leg. My reaction was as expected from apathy to joy. I could have stepped over her screaming in pain on the floor, and drank my coffe in peace grinning at her suffering. ^^; but I didn't because I have principles and refuse to act on this impulse. Even if I am like her in way, by choice I refuse to make the lives of ppl around me miserable, because I know how it is to be on the receiving end of calculated malice.

During my teenage years i used to be consumed by, well hatred, but that doesen't quite express it well, it was more along the lines of unbridled rage. To this day anger is the primamry emotion I am aware of internally. These days its not explosive, more like a cold sadistic lazer-like focus.

The whole ordeal however has allowed me to develop an ability to read and understand people, body language and so on. It is an invaluable skill. It was necessary to cope with the mental abuse, to navigate the minefield that was life at home. As Peterson said I also have developed a very healthy distrust of other ppl e_e and I don't recomend screwing with me, my retaliation tends to be calculated malice, just like my grandmother .. so I guess in a way I'm thankful as well. I learned a lot..

She will die of old age, we'll survive her and the sweetest revenge will be living a good life & pissing on her grave.


I'm 100% aware just how evil I am. You guys don't need to tell me. It is preferable to being a naive fool. When life gives you lemons squeeze the acid in life's eyes and remember, you are in control of your own life.

I think they key to this is self acceptance and being honest with yourself. Without that you don't know where you stand and it becomes easy to slip across a fine line into destructive behaviour. As Peterson says, keep your dark side sheathed, but be aware of it in full.

I might not agree with Peterson on politics, but he is really good when it comes to psychology.

 

[moody]

Thank you for sharing this. Someone close to me has been victimized (they're middle aged), and it's exactly for the reasons mentioned in the video. They're an INFJ; they have such a strong moral and ethical code that they look at what normal people consider to be healthy narcissism as compromising who you are. This articulates everything I've recognized about the importance of having self-worth beyond the eyes of your peers/community/society/etc.

@EndogenousRebel
I think your post is most applicable to the U.S. We're such a individualistic society where we consider everyone responsible for their own problems. The technological age and social issues going on have not helped this attitude. There are so many social identities within our country that increases the categorization of other people as "other," and not one of your own. There largely lacks any sense of moral social responsibility for other people. Even with my own acquaintances, I don't feel like I could rely on any of them to "be there" for me in a tight spot, unless it were convenient.

I've noticed that non-American posts about the potential for people to be kind have been, in general, on the more easy-going-optimistic side. A few times I've read these posts and though, "That may be true in your community, but here, there is no community and no one gives a flying fart."

That being said, I do think you're taking his words too much at face value. At first, I also was skeptical about his message. I then realized he was only using those terms for brevity's sake. Since the video is only ~5 minutes, he didn't get into all the but when it comes to treatment.
I personally know an individual with PTSD and I can say, at least in their case, what he says hits the nail on the head. I wouldn't use the same language (ie, "monster," quoting Niche, psychopath, etc), because it's very easy to take it the wrong way.

Here's how I would re-phrase: We tend to give people more credit than they have. Most people don't listen as intently as we think, and mistreatment isn't due to anything wrong with us, rather what is wrong with they. We learn to cope with being victimized or mistreated by compartmentalizing, and recognizing that they aren't thinking about you, but themselves. You give what you get.
It's true that you must develop a strong sense of self to be able to do this. You are not your situation, you have autonomy from those around you, and you are not responsible for their thoughts, feelings, behaviors, no matter how much they'll make you think you are.

@Kormak
You're not evil, just human. Evil would be to have killed her already when you were a child because you didn't like her. We are the way we act, and obviously you didn't leave her withering on the ground with a broken leg, despite the impulse to do so. Congratulations, you are not a sociopath!

From what you've said, they way you've internalized this is commendable. It shows a clear understanding of you vs. you're environment. A lot of people don't ever learn that they aren't their social situation, and only react.

 

[Rebis]

At 17 I was a cashier, a man came by and wanted to use his card to get cashback from a purchase, he decided to buy a snickers bar, and on a whim gave it to me. I would say this was a pivotal moment in my life.

I feel like living in a world where everyone is developing their "shadow" is a really problematic thing though. Most people are assholes, most people are also good. Even the people who lean good are susceptible to selfishness and inconsideration. I guess I must admit that people that lean asshole are also equally capable of being altruistic or empathetic, but I feel like being an asshole is easier than being good, we live in a dog eat dog world after all, and I'm sure most people see it as a zero-sum game. Society is the major force pushing people towards good behavior. Ideally I would say that people who are monsters should focus on training their compassion and people who angles should practice being a monster. There is a hefty middle, so those people can choose between either or, and I have a feeling that more often than not they are inclined choose in self interest. I have no clue what they should be doing, sounds like their brains are doing the most work (on average).

I think you can be nice if you develop your shadow, it just becomes a matter of choice rather than a naive disposition. You're only subject to hurt if you're being nice through naivety, so in terms of advice it's either you try to develop your shadow or someone will take advantage of you and you can play to the tune of another. In developing my shadow I haven't done anything horrible, though maybe my shadow isn't horrible to begin with. I left a best friend crying once after walking her home, I just walked other way and didn't respond when she called out, leaving her by herself. It was strange, I don't even remember the scenario but I wanted to tap into my shadow.

Having said that, I feel a lot of my decisions aren't based on emotions but thought. I think this is good, therefore I will do it. It's never "I MUST DO THIS FOR JUSTICE!", I mean sure, I do allude myself now and again that I'm tapping into the very meaning of my life, but really everything is just a decision, and in its defence when someone questions my reasoning, I reflect on the decision after it has occured and try to validate it through meta-narratives, utility and practicality. I gave a homeless man my food on the way back from work today, just casually stopped and asked if he wanted a big mac and walked on. Not because I felt sorry for him but just because I knew it was a good thing to do.

I don't think I'm a monster, but I understand "monsters" if you want to call them as that. I've been around a fair few of them, I don't know any murderers however. We should remove virtue from the human condition, we are animals after all. Our capacity for self-destruction is unmatched, we slaughter billions of animals everyday, destroy ecosystems, pollute waters, killed each other endlessly, developed the nuclear bomb and enslaved people for our own self-interest. Raping slaves, abusing them, killing them for having a child, striking fear into their hearts through ravenous dogs so they don't run. It's only in modern society we've forgot how monstruous we are, but let's not make the mistake of innocents in the past. We are truly monstruous under the right conditions, the one who's naive views himself as always in the right and never as the monster, the one that knows himself understands his capacity for malevolence and detruction.

On another note.
NBC has a show called The Good Place. It revolves around someone who was sent to heaven by accident and explores many themes of ethical philosophy. It's a quirky funny-happy-go-lucky-feel-good show so they are inclined to portray that change is possible in people. Currently, this final fourth season is exploring the capacity for a narcissist to change, and I'm actually looking forward to seeing how they show it if at all. I recommend it.

I've been so bad with media consumption recently. I watch next to none downtime TV, no episodic this. I tried to watch an anthology Love and death, I watched like 2 hours. That does sound quirky, it could be my slice of pie, by the sound of it it reminds me of Good Omens.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

@moody are you implying that I'm projecting? Not possible, I never do that. Yeah, you're right I guess, but I feel like we should put some part of what you said in to question. American's are supposedly one of the most generous people, (an American would brag about being generous) either that or we're the biggest pack of liars. I don't know what part of the vid I may have misunderstood, were you referring to when I wrote that even JP said "some" people- I just re watched that part, I missed the part where he said "frequently". When I think of PTSD I usually think of people that are shell shocked from war, where in reality there is no good or evil (on the battlefield), just winners and losers. I suppose even in that situation one would still try to process the experience through rationalizing it with some sort of mental model of, perhaps history of warfare centered on whats and whys? I see what you mean though.

I think you can be nice if you develop your shadow, it just becomes a matter of choice rather than a naive disposition. You're only subject to hurt if you're being nice through naivety, so in terms of advice it's either you try to develop your shadow or someone will take advantage of you and you can play to the tune of another. In developing my shadow I haven't done anything horrible, though maybe my shadow isn't horrible to begin with. I left a best friend crying once after walking her home, I just walked other way and didn't respond when she called out, leaving her by herself. It was strange, I don't even remember the scenario but I wanted to tap into my shadow.

Having said that, I feel a lot of my decisions aren't based on emotions but thought. I think this is good, therefore I will do it. It's never "I MUST DO THIS FOR JUSTICE!", I mean sure, I do allude myself now and again that I'm tapping into the very meaning of my life, but really everything is just a decision, and in its defence when someone questions my reasoning, I reflect on the decision after it has occured and try to validate it through meta-narratives, utility and practicality. I gave a homeless man my food on the way back from work today, just casually stopped and asked if he wanted a big mac and walked on. Not because I felt sorry for him but just because I knew it was a good thing to do.

I don't think I'm a monster, but I understand "monsters" if you want to call them as that. I've been around a fair few of them, I don't know any murderers however. We should remove virtue from the human condition, we are animals after all. Our capacity for self-destruction is unmatched, we slaughter billions of animals everyday, destroy ecosystems, pollute waters, killed each other endlessly, developed the nuclear bomb and enslaved people for our own self-interest. Raping slaves, abusing them, killing them for having a child, striking fear into their hearts through ravenous dogs so they don't run. It's only in modern society we've forgot how monstruous we are, but let's not make the mistake of innocents in the past. We are truly monstruous under the right conditions, the one who's naive views himself as always in the right and never as the monster, the one that knows himself understands his capacity for malevolence and detruction.

lol not to microagress but this made me think of this one guy in High school who quoted Hitler's "I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature" in the year book. The teacher that allowed this to happen was let go that same year, he was an ass.

I think my concern is about in the way that one does it? Would it just be picturing how someone with intent to harm you would think? Like how tourist are prey to pickpockets in certain places, so you would have to think like a pickpocket. I don't know, I feel like the brain is like a magnet, and if you try to move your thoughts in one direction, other things will follow and be attracted, making it seep into moments where you wouldn't have intended to otherwise, like you'll turn it on when it's convenient for you. The brain loves solving problems and it will seek the path of least resistance more often than not. Maybe consciously doing it would make you more aware of this aspect but again, I assume there would have to be a method of "shadowing" responsibly.

I've been so bad with media consumption recently. I watch next to none downtime TV, no episodic this. I tried to watch an anthology Love and death, I watched like 2 hours. That does sound quirky, it could be my slice of pie, by the sound of it it reminds me of Good Omens.

It's definitely made for Americans and some moments may make you roll your eyes, but it's better than most TV I feel. It's on American Netflix atm. I've only seen one episode of GO, but yeah it has some elements in common that I spoted with just that one viewing. The episodes are like 20 minutes so you can get bitesized viewings mostly.

 

[moody]

are you implying that I'm projecting?

That wasn't my intention, I apologize if it felt as though I was trying to "correct" you.

I was only dissecting the part of your approach that may come from the experiences/social problems experienced in America. I actually related a lot to your post; identifying it as an "American" analysis is more of a clarification thing for discussion purposes, as opposed to a dismissal.

I've been in so many discussions where I can see two people "arguing" are actually just talking about two different sides of an issue, but refuse to see it that way. It's a knee-jerk-reaction for me to troubleshoot why anyone may think differently, or why you may disagree with someone else.

Yeah, you're right I guess, but I feel like we should put some part of what you said in to question. American's are supposedly one of the most generous people, (an American would brag about being generous) either that or we're the biggest pack of liars.

Well. You got me there, you're right.
Though... it depends on what part of America you're from/you visit, or what social characteristic you have in mind. In my response, I was mainly thinking in the professional and business world. People are different, but our society is centered around promoting and marketing big business, which will indefinitely contribute to the social dynamic. Individual people, sure they can be very generous! When they're not busy. When I was in high school, I didn't know people thought of their jobs/careers as separate from their self-identities until I had a German friend who called having such a weighted focus on your career a largely "American thing." (My mind was blown; I was like, "if you're not your career, what are you?" XD)

When I think of PTSD I usually think of people that are shell shocked from war, where in reality there is no good or evil (on the battlefield), just winners and losers. I suppose even in that situation one would still try to process the experience through rationalizing it with some sort of mental model of, perhaps history of warfare centered on whats and whys? I see what you mean though.

This is such a strong image of PTSD that it's hard to break apart from it and look at the characteristics that define PTSD.
PTSD wasn't an official diagnosis until 1980, but obviously existed since the first living thing was traumatized. Veterans from WW1 were called "shell-shock," but with the increasing amount of issues holocaust victims and WW2 veterans had and the social movements in the 70s, it was finally identified as a disorder that stems from trauma.
It's easy for us to understand how a war veteran or holocaust could have PTSD, because we grew up with these being akin to the definition of PTSD.
Like I said before, I don't agree with the terms used by the speaker in the video. Ignoring the syntax, it's easier to see what his point is and how it applies to those with PTSD.
Just like rape-victims, soldiers had no control over their situation, and were the victims of people with more power than them who had ammo, biological warfare, tanks, and money all on their side. Not to mention the complications of self-blame in PTSD. It's a complex state of being, where if feels like you're detached from others, not completely autonomous, nor are you worth that autonomy.
IDK how treatment for PTSD works, but I sincerely doubt telling any veteran or survivor "be one with Hitler" will help... nor would anyone want to tell someone that...
Of course I'm no expert, just took a few different college courses in psych and abnormal psych due to interest. My words are very generalized, and it's very possible I fudged an explanation.

Oh, and he didn't get that Harry Potter thing completely right...sure, it was key that Harry understood Voldemort in order to defeat him, but he had to get killed first to kill the piece of Voldemort inside him and then he could kill Voldemort.
But that would've only contradicted his point and we mustn't have that now!

 

[Rebis]

Thoughts?

That makes sense. Sounds like my relationship with my grandmother. She is sort of a narcicistic high functioning sociopath, who has destroyed my mother's life, made me and my brother's childhood a living hell and e_e refuses to die, that 92 yo bitch. I have 0 empathy, simpathy or anything for her and even enjoy seeing her suffer to a certain extent and I know this because she fell recently and broke her leg. My reaction was as expected from apathy to joy. I could have stepped over her screaming in pain on the floor, and drank my coffe in peace grinning at her suffering. ^^; but I didn't because I have principles and refuse to act on this impulse. Even if I am like her in way, by choice I refuse to make the lives of ppl around me miserable, because I know how it is to be on the receiving end of calculated malice.

During my teenage years i used to be consumed by, well hatred, but that doesen't quite express it well, it was more along the lines of unbridled rage. To this day anger is the primamry emotion I am aware of internally. These days its not explosive, more like a cold sadistic lazer-like focus.

The whole ordeal however has allowed me to develop an ability to read and understand people, body language and so on. It is an invaluable skill. It was necessary to cope with the mental abuse, to navigate the minefield that was life at home. As Peterson said I also have developed a very healthy distrust of other ppl e_e and I don't recomend screwing with me, my retaliation tends to be calculated malice, just like my grandmother .. so I guess in a way I'm thankful as well. I learned a lot..

She will die of old age, we'll survive her and the sweetest revenge will be living a good life & pissing on her grave.


I'm 100% aware just how evil I am. You guys don't need to tell me. It is preferable to being a naive fool. When life gives you lemons squeeze the acid in life's eyes and remember, you are in control of your own life.

I think they key to this is self acceptance and being honest with yourself. Without that you don't know where you stand and it becomes easy to slip across a fine line into destructive behaviour. As Peterson says, keep your dark side sheathed, but be aware of it in full.

I might not agree with Peterson on politics, but he is really good when it comes to psychology.

You remind of a friend called lewis, if we could be called that. ENTP 1,000,000s over, will take me to the grave in a debate where he literally created his point from scratch but act like it's the primordial box of the universes mysteries. He took meth when he was young so big crackhead vibes, I don't think you fit that vibe though. He was a massive asshole but didn't keep it sheathed, had no filter at all. Didn't really judge him on it, we got along well, caused me a lot of hassle, almost intentionally. Strange relationship but we talked about a lot of the baddie darkie.

 

[Rebis]

lol not to microagress but this made me think of this one guy in High school who quoted Hitler's "I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature" in the year book. The teacher that allowed this to happen was let go that same year, he was an ass.

I think my concern is about in the way that one does it? Would it just be picturing how someone with intent to harm you would think? Like how tourist are prey to pickpockets in certain places, so you would have to think like a pickpocket. I don't know, I feel like the brain is like a magnet, and if you try to move your thoughts in one direction, other things will follow and be attracted, making it seep into moments where you wouldn't have intended to otherwise, like you'll turn it on when it's convenient for you. The brain loves solving problems and it will seek the path of least resistance more often than not. Maybe consciously doing it would make you more aware of this aspect but again, I assume there would have to be a method of "shadowing" responsibly.

Well, that's the whole model with integration of the shadow and the self. The shadow is behaviour that you repress, usually based on ideological standings "NEVER DO THIS" "ALWAYS STAND BY FRIENDS TO THE BITTER END!" stuff like that. To integrate the shadow you have to question why you have this prevalent moral structure and take the contrary position, it's driven by curiousity in understanding who you are. Granted, it does appear to be pandora's box. I mean integrating the shadow is all about understanding that you are capable of things you have only observed in movies and the like. You can simulate, emulate or pontificate.

Integrating the shadow just breaks barriers that divide you and the other person.

Why is it that society is fixated on these "monstrous beasts?" You see the fascination everywhere in the media. Maybe the fascination is that people see an aspect of themselves in that person.

 

[Kormak]

You remind of a friend called lewis, if we could be called that. ENTP 1,000,000s over, will take me to the grave in a debate where he literally created his point from scratch but act like it's the primordial box of the universes mysteries. He took meth when he was young so big crackhead vibes, I don't think you fit that vibe though. He was a massive asshole but didn't keep it sheathed, had no filter at all. Didn't really judge him on it, we got along well, caused me a lot of hassle, almost intentionally. Strange relationship but we talked about a lot of the baddie darkie.

XD drugs are bad Rebis, didn't INTPs on FB tell you that?

e_e hmm.. my coworkers at the office jokingly call me "the psychopath" ... this one time one of them pulled up this test question for psychopathy and i got the answer right, then explained to them why someone would think like that. Ever since then.. smh

 

[Rebis]

You remind of a friend called lewis, if we could be called that. ENTP 1,000,000s over, will take me to the grave in a debate where he literally created his point from scratch but act like it's the primordial box of the universes mysteries. He took meth when he was young so big crackhead vibes, I don't think you fit that vibe though. He was a massive asshole but didn't keep it sheathed, had no filter at all. Didn't really judge him on it, we got along well, caused me a lot of hassle, almost intentionally. Strange relationship but we talked about a lot of the baddie darkie.

XD drugs are bad Rebis, didn't INTPs on FB tell you that?

I'm calling the polizie, they'll be at your door for advocating such indulgent hedonism.

 

[Kormak]

I'm calling the polizie, they'll be at your door for advocating such indulgent hedonism.

;O you monster! They will confiscate as "evidence" and drink all my hommade alkohol!

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Why is it that society is fixated on these "monstrous beasts?" You see the fascination everywhere in the media. Maybe the fascination is that people see an aspect of themselves in that person.

I honestly think I burntout of my interest of crime documentaries and serial killers a long time ago. They always say the same few things; weird childhood; traumatic experiences; weird fetishes. Recently the only thing that's peaked my interest was Netflix's 'Mind Hunter' which is a dramatization of the FBI established of their Serial Killer Unit (they invented the term). It is a good question though. Likely the media is just complicit of the public interest in these things. Life is boring for most people, and I'm sure tales about mortality makes them feel more- tuned in? Sharp? Maybe they see these things as threats that could happen to them on some level? I mean it makes sense in an intuitive way, people are all around us, why wouldn't it happen? Statistics don't really get processed at the deepest level of the brain. These succubi that get turned on by these killers only do so when they are attractive if you ask me, and I don't want to posit something unfounded about correlations between attractiveness and intelligence, but if you evade the police for some time and are able to outwit several victims I'm sure you would be intelligent in some way. (then again the worst serial killer in American history looks like a discount Bill Cosby and Bruce Willis put together, granted he only killed "undesirables") You could say that they see themselves in these monsters, but it's equally likely that it's because they see no trace of themselves in these still human humans.

 

[moody]

NEVER DO THIS" "ALWAYS STAND BY FRIENDS TO THE BITTER END!" stuff like that. To integrate the shadow you have to question why you have this prevalent moral structure and take the contrary position, it's driven by curiousity in understanding who you are. Granted, it does appear to be pandora's box. I mean integrating the shadow is all about understanding that you are capable of things you have only observed in movies and the like. You can simulate, emulate or pontificate.

Integrating the shadow just breaks barriers that divide you and the other person.

You use a lot of Jungian terms, but this is an MBTI forum so it's appropriate. Could also try out "id, ego, superego" but Frued was an asshole, so no need. I get the convince of the term for conversational purposes, but I'm not a big fan of the limits a single word has.

People need to stop looking at different details of the same thing as contradicting one another. You can always stand by your friends, but still accept that they have qualities that tick you off. "Two sides of the same coin" and all that. People can be so wimpy when they look at all the bad qualities of humanity and say "humans are inherently bad angsy angsy no one understands me." Yes humans can be very bad, but they do altruistic things too. It all varies between people and the situations we're thrown in of course, but that does mean the "good" or "bad will every cancel one another out. Ugh.
No you, only expressing frustration at people believing in all their reactions, and I'm agreeing with you.

They always say the same few things; weird childhood; traumatic experiences; weird fetishes.

Or is that exactly what they want us to think?!
Judge: Why did you do it?
Murder: uh
Defense attorney: he has psychological trauma due to his abusive upbringing! kicks murder's leg
Murder: ...yes! that's exactly what happened. It all started when my my 14 year old prostituted-mother abandoned me in a dumpster fire....

But really, most are missing parts of their brains, their life becomes more and more traumatic because they're not normal people. You read or watch Ted Talks on The Psychopath Within Me?

 

[EndogenousRebel]

I've seen TED talks where they've pandered to the idea that we're all a bit psychopathic, and it's true. I wouldn't simpify it to them have missing parts of their brains, it's possible psychopathy can be hereditary, and a lot of them, the ones that we hear about, could be a product of poor nurture. Though maybe that causes missing brain parts? There was this one story, about how one of the researchers in a brain scan study mistakenly thought a brain scan of themselves was that of a sociopath, and he is otherwise a standup guy. Idk, I can bring up exceptions all I want but you're probably right. I like Mindhunter because it gives us the nuance and detail of these peoples lives, and shows just how disturbed some of them are. My favorite that interview is probably Edmund Kemper David Fincher does some directing on it.

We can only imagine what other people are thinking or feeling. I wonder how psychopaths would respond to being connected to someone else's brain via some sort sort of science fiction brain connecting device. I've seen studies where psychopaths can understand someones frame of mind, but don't give a shit about it. I imagine the response won't the uniformly one thing.

 

[moody]

I've seen TED talks where they've pandered to the idea that we're all a bit psychopathic, and it's true. I wouldn't simpify it to them have missing parts of their brains, it's possible psychopathy can be hereditary, and a lot of them, the ones that we hear about, could be a product of poor nurture. Though maybe that causes missing brain parts? There was this one story, about how one of the researchers in a brain scan study mistakenly thought a brain scan of themselves was that of a sociopath, and he is otherwise a standup guy. Idk, I can bring up exceptions all I want but you're probably right. I like Mindhunter because it gives us the nuance and detail of these peoples lives, and shows just how disturbed some of them are. My favorite that interview is probably Edmund Kemper David Fincher does some directing on it.

We can only imagine what other people are thinking or feeling. I wonder how psychopaths would respond to being connected to someone else's brain via some sort sort of science fiction brain connecting device. I've seen studies where psychopaths can understand someones frame of mind, but don't give a shit about it. I imagine the response won't the uniformly one thing.

That’s the author of the book I mentioned,”The Psychopath Within Me.”

There are several of his speeches of psychopathy and sociopathy on YouTube.

He does have the same deficits in his brain that are shown in people convicted for heinous crimes who are psychopaths. He goes into depth in one of his TED talks about why there are “psychopaths” like him who never become malificant not would otherwise know that they’re different, versus the ones that end up hurting others. I highly recommend watching one of them, it’s extremely fascinating.

You’re thinking of cognitive empathy, something James Fallon discusses in his ted talks.

Psychopaths don’t have the same type of intrernal self-reflection that normal people have. This makes them fabulous at reading and interpreting people, since they don’t waste any of their attention on themselves and their behavior. They can understand out pain logically, but they don’t relate or “feel” another’s pain. Fallon discusses this in himself as well.

 

[Rebis]

Why is it that society is fixated on these "monstrous beasts?" You see the fascination everywhere in the media. Maybe the fascination is that people see an aspect of themselves in that person.

I honestly think I burntout of my interest of crime documentaries and serial killers a long time ago. They always say the same few things; weird childhood; traumatic experiences; weird fetishes. Recently the only thing that's peaked my interest was Netflix's 'Mind Hunter' which is a dramatization of the FBI established of their Serial Killer Unit (they invented the term). It is a good question though. Likely the media is just complicit of the public interest in these things. Life is boring for most people, and I'm sure tales about mortality makes them feel more- tuned in? Sharp? Maybe they see these things as threats that could happen to them on some level? I mean it makes sense in an intuitive way, people are all around us, why wouldn't it happen? Statistics don't really get processed at the deepest level of the brain. These succubi that get turned on by these killers only do so when they are attractive if you ask me, and I don't want to posit something unfounded about correlations between attractiveness and intelligence, but if you evade the police for some time and are able to outwit several victims I'm sure you would be intelligent in some way. (then again the worst serial killer in American history looks like a discount Bill Cosby and Bruce Willis put together, granted he only killed "undesirables") You could say that they see themselves in these monsters, but it's equally likely that it's because they see no trace of themselves in these still human humans.

Yeah I burned out my interest in them long ago for the same reasons as you , but I know people that still take an interest in it years after. "Ermagherd he was cold to ppl"