• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

Reception to positivity

Hadoblado

think again losers
Local time
Today 9:49 PM
Joined
Mar 17, 2011
Messages
6,614
-->
Something has changed in my head.

I noticed while playing computer games a month or so back. The automated camaraderie of other players, the things that are said by the character and not the player, I felt myself accepting them. Positive meaningless things. It's like I can feel the physiological response to the validation offered by a program. I shoot someone, the AI says 'nice shot', and I feel good. In the back of my mind I realise I'm saying to myself, 'damn straight nice shot, don't you doubt it'.

This was not always the case. This stuff is meaningless and misled. I used to hate it when people offered this kind of validation. They're trying to control me. Who the hell are they to input conditioning into my learning experience? And yet now I've got a passive intake, and feel better for having it.

A few years back I kind of switched, wishing for a more ordinary response to reinforcers. I find it difficult to be engaged by things because I don't find them rewarding. Being reinforced by validation, which can be inserted into literally any learning, could unlock avenues for me that I felt previously were barred.

Well now I have it, or some form of it. It's consistent, and I don't know whether it's a good thing. On one hand it makes me feel like an idiot, on the other, I'm comfortable, and it could be useful in becoming less of an idiot.

I don't really know anything about what could cause this sort of change in someone. It feels like a structural change in self-concept. Does anyone know anything worth sharing? Is it a permanent edition or just a phase? Thoughts?
 

TBerg

fallen angel who hasn't earned his wings
Local time
Today 7:19 AM
Joined
Oct 8, 2013
Messages
2,453
-->
Before, you were a rock unable to be budged by the roaring current. Now you are humble and wise enough to let the rolling rapids give you power you have never experienced before.
 

redbaron

irony based lifeform
Local time
Today 11:19 PM
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
Messages
7,253
-->
Location
69S 69E
Game announcer hyping up killstreaks is cheesy but oh so satisfying.

I've never thought anything of that particular example, but I don't think it's uncommon to be uncomfortable with praise or positivity. I've never been bothered by it, so long as it's legitimate or not exaggerated. I find it annoying to be lauded or praised just for doing something I consider the norm.

I just roll with it and enjoy it, while maintaing an awareness that the positivity displayed towards me is more to do with other people's perceptions of it than my own. You're not being complimented because you asked for it, it's because you did something that was appreciated.

Sometimes it's stupid and they're appreciating what is ultimately a pointless thing, sometimes they aren't. In environments where multiple people have a shared vision, positivity is very powerful since it propels the group forward in a sort of feedback loop.

It's why businesses and sports teams are so big on their, 'visions' and 'goals'. If they can get everyone to care about the same stuff, they can start patting each other on the back for doing generic but important things, everyone starts feeling good about doing generic but important things and then all the generic but important things get done not by some force of will but because people actually really want to do those generic but important things that they'd otherwise never do but in the context of the spontaneous positivity feedback loop really want to do that generic but important thing because positivity feedback loop. The loop itself becomes the reward and so people willingly do things for essentially nothing but the continued experience of continuing to do eessentially nothing.

It's a form of manipulation on one hand but if you can be aware of when you're in the loop, I think it's fine to pick and choose which loops you willingly partake in.
 

Grayman

Soul Shade
Local time
Today 5:19 AM
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
4,416
-->
Location
You basement
I've often viewed the fear of manipulation on an emotional level as a lack of confidence in oneself or a consequence of an inability to have faith in others.

In this case I would say you have learned to relax and be comfortable with yourself and simply being. Emotions are just emotions. It doesn't mean that because you enjoyed the announcers comments that you will suddenly let it dominate you and allow it to alter all your perceptions and actions. It is just an experience.
 

Urakro

~
Local time
Today 12:19 PM
Joined
Sep 7, 2015
Messages
466
-->
If there is a difference, it sounds like it's you being influenced more than being manipulated. But perhaps it is intentional, so its a strange concept with a blurry line. Where manipulators have learned to be more subtle by playing on your instinctual reactions.

I'd dislike completing goals in the game only for positive reinforcement. It'd be less dull if they actually did more malicious manipulation, but still keeping options open. I'd want to shoot that guy with a perfect shot because I'm more emotionally invested to with good reasons or strategy, not just to avoid a game over. For instance, if he's on his way to recruit professional mercanaries, or he's got my stash of armory.

But then, there's this way of single-player stories that make the player out to be the hero, which is really the inevitable conclusion of the whole thing. That's manipulation, that the player really had no choice.


I noticed in some types of families or communities, people are taught not to expect any affirmation, particularily in male roles. Here you are expected to do the best, and you won't hear anything until there are problems. This way of teaching creates strength of character and successful expertise. An apprentice of self-preservation and stoic who'll never, falter or dredgefully whine for help. Anything less than this is when you can visualize 'special' people getting extra help at school, lower than average intelligences swooning, and a life going down the drain of desperation.


If what I'm thinking is on the right track, whenever there's a pat on the back and "Good Job!" statements, there is not only this unconscious guilt for some percieved slight, but also fear of losing this strength of character. Perhaps taking it as an indication that people are trying to help because they see something vulnerable. A small apprehension of sliding into 'special people' status. Or something a little less masculine.
 

Grayman

Soul Shade
Local time
Today 5:19 AM
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
4,416
-->
Location
You basement
I noticed in some types of families or communities, people are taught not to expect any affirmation, particularily in male roles. Here you are expected to do the best, and you won't hear anything until there are problems. This way of teaching creates strength of character and successful expertise. An apprentice of self-preservation and stoic who'll never, falter or dredgefully whine for help. Anything less than this is when you can visualize 'special' people getting extra help at school, lower than average intelligences swooning, and a life going down the drain of desperation.


If what I'm thinking is on the right track, whenever there's a pat on the back and "Good Job!" statements, there is not only this unconscious guilt for some percieved slight, but also fear of losing this strength of character. Perhaps taking it as an indication that people are trying to help because they see something vulnerable. A small apprehension of sliding into 'special people' status. Or something a little less masculine.

Sounds like my life. The result wasn't that I feared being manipulated but that their praise was an accidental manipulation on my part. I felt guilt and fear for praise because I new that I would eventual mess up or not have the answer. In that instance it will be evident that I am and never was deserving of their praise.
 

TBerg

fallen angel who hasn't earned his wings
Local time
Today 7:19 AM
Joined
Oct 8, 2013
Messages
2,453
-->
Yes, the other end of the equation ends with Hermes flying too close to the sun. It is hard to create your own reward mechanism without risking all of the dynamics of narcissism. When I am at my own personal best, I take a zen-like approach that focuses on deepening adaptive habits of mind. There are many pitfalls throughout my day, and I want to try to foster the right perspective to hold while doing particular tasks or interacting with people. I am still recovering from a lot of narcissistic patterns, but I hope I am getting better.
 

Brontosaurie

Banned
Local time
Today 1:19 PM
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
5,646
-->
What i see is more cognitive levels. More self-insight. More maturity. More controlled, focussed, deliberative nourishment of the organism that you are, or at least new potential for that. I think it's called self-governance.
 

Brontosaurie

Banned
Local time
Today 1:19 PM
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
5,646
-->
I've often viewed the fear of manipulation on an emotional level as a lack of confidence in oneself or a consequence of an inability to have faith in others.

In this case I would say you have learned to relax and be comfortable with yourself and simply being. Emotions are just emotions. It doesn't mean that because you enjoyed the announcers comments that you will suddenly let it dominate you and allow it to alter all your perceptions and actions. It is just an experience.

This overlaps a lot with some insights i've been integrating recently. Well put. I can't say i've "often" viewed it like this - since it's a new concept to me - but i can tell it does ring a bell, loud and clear, to someone for whom it's currently very present and tangible and fresh and vital and real.
 

QuickTwist

Spiritual "Woo"
Local time
Today 7:19 AM
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
7,182
-->
Location
...
I have a few thoughts on this.

first off, we as humans need to begin with positive reaffirming for our good we do or we will never know that we are on the right track. How we are shaped by nurture while we are young plays a huge part in who we are to become. That said, I believe that at some point humans must at some point in their lives realize that fulfillment really only comes from within. Knowing you did what you set out to do can be a great way of self fulfillment. But at the same time it is something that a person has to work up towards. It is at the point where we are able to congratulate ourselves that we are able to accept congratulations from someone else.. later in life at least.

I think what is happening with Hado now is that he is starting to realize that it is perfectly ok to congratulate himself on when he does what he has set out to do and this is a sign of contentment in his life. So when the computer tells him "nice shot!" he knows he can believe it because he knows it himself to be true.
 
Top Bottom