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sacred cows

Perfectly Normal Beast

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what (if anything) offends you?

why does it offend you?

would you prevent others from engaging in the offensive behaviour/activity if you could?

does being offended harm you and if so, how?
 

pjoa09

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Titles that are not relevant to the thread itself.

I came here hoping to figure out whats the deal with sacred cows.

Oh well.
 

The Grey Man

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what (if anything) offends you?

why does it offend you?

would you prevent others from engaging in the offensive behaviour/activity if you could?

does being offended harm you and if so, how?

I'm pretty chill. If I have a sacred cow, it's freedom of thought and expression. Censorship grinds my gears.

It offends me when people want to infringe on it because the reason they give usually isn't good enough.

Yes. I would prevent others from preventing others from saying what they want to say.

Uh...no. Unless I'm being censored.
 

Jennywocky

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Not sure if there is something that to me is "immune to questioning" -- everything is open to questioning -- but I strongly hold the value of adults being allowed to make their own decisions, no matter how stupid, as long as it doesn't directly screw someone else over. I hate needless coercion.

Titles that are not relevant to the thread itself.

I came here hoping to figure out whats the deal with sacred cows.

Oh well.




"A literal sacred cow or sacred bull is an actual cow or bull that is treated with sincere reverence. A figurative sacred cow is something else that is considered immune from question or criticism, especially unreasonably so."
 

Brontosaurie

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specific things that offend me:

religion
prohibitive politics
non-anarchist utopia
postmodernism

to be continued?
 

Fukyo

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I get really fucking pissed off when people are dismissive about something/someone I care about a lot, or about a long time personal struggle and hurt. /Fi

I get offended when people give me stupid advice and then insist it's the smartest shit ever, also when people try to put others into tight little categories because they can't deal with human complexity (eg. gender roles). I get pissed off when people are incompetent, unobservant, slow and ask stupid questions.

I'm also offended by paranoid, neurotic assholes and conspiracy theorists fear mongering with their oftentimes bullshit alarmism.


Does it hurt me? Yes it does, all this rage doesn't have a proper outlet. :beatyou:
 

BrainVessel

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Assertive ignorance(sheeple in particular)
Sexism, racism, ageism in all forms
Government taking away freedoms that don't effect other peoples freedoms
Arrogance
People yucking other peoples yums without consideration

So basically all people I guess
 

pjoa09

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Not sure if there is something that to me is "immune to questioning" -- everything is open to questioning -- but I strongly hold the value of adults being allowed to make their own decisions, no matter how stupid, as long as it doesn't directly screw someone else over. I hate needless coercion.






"A literal sacred cow or sacred bull is an actual cow or bull that is treated with sincere reverence. A figurative sacred cow is something else that is considered immune from question or criticism, especially unreasonably so."

Oh I thought we were talking about the literal sacred cow. Oh well.


Anything that would destroy the opposing persons belief in their religion.

I find it cruel personally.

As long as they don't try to convert me I don't wanna go there.

Jainism. I wanna shove a cow in their throats.

Anything anti-Elon Musk.

Women hungry men. ( I am a guy though)

Consumerist beliefs. (some weird fucks out there)

Luxury goods hoarders.
 

The Grey Man

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Not sure if there is something that to me is "immune to questioning" -- everything is open to questioning -- but I strongly hold the value of adults being allowed to make their own decisions, no matter how stupid, as long as it doesn't directly screw someone else over. I hate needless coercion.

Oh yeah. This is a good one for me, too. Specifically, assuming that conventions and norms are self-evidently "correct." That bugs me.
 

OrLevitate

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Thumb twiddling!
 

TBerg

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Ignoring essential differences between people.

Censorship by institutions of any kind.

People spitting on their hard-won freedom.

Judging my arguments based upon supposed identities and privileges. Liberals bestow "oppressed" "groups" the position of the vanguard of the movement of "liberation."
 

Absurdity

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Muthafuckas dissing the new Star Wars movies
 

Pyropyro

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I heard that burgers made from sacred cows tasted divine.
 

EyeSeeCold

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I am, offended by offensiveness

not the offence itself, just the intent of it
 

Pyropyro

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Serious time:

I'm offended by people who hate ideas/things/people that did not personally cause them some loss.

For example:
Ok: Hating an army because they killed your mother.
Not Ok: Hating an army because it's cool and I sound so edgy and (self)righteous.
 

Brontosaurie

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Serious time:

I'm offended by people who hate ideas/things/people that did not personally cause them some loss.

For example:
Ok: Hating an army because they killed your mother.
Not Ok: Hating an army because it's cool and I sound so edgy and (self)righteous.

how about hating an army because armies are about killing and killing is bad :confused: this is just a thought, no final assertion
 

Pyropyro

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how about hating an army because armies are about killing and killing is bad :confused: this is just a thought, no final assertion

<not directed at you BTW, just the argument>

That would be hating out of ignorance and out of fear. Armies are also there to do stuff like rescuing people during calamities (which we have plenty here). It's also out of fear since you fear what you don't understand or cannot control. The morals about killing is merely a mask of what you really feel. This hate is too dilute and too weak to take action on.

Hating based on loss on the other hand is more intense and more passionate. You don't hate a large group but a specific person or a specific sub-group. In this case, you focus yourself and actually get things done (whether this is ultimately good or bad is not covered by my argument).

My favorite Lantern, Atrocitus, sums it up nicely:

Do you hate? The most powerful hate is not born out of ignorance or prejudice or a perceived threat. Those three are fear in disguise. The fury that fuels my corps ignites from personal pain. Those whose lives were ravaged by greed, lust and control wield the crimson light. The rings replaced our damaged hearts. They beat for them. And they keep us alive only to hate. But at least we live.
 

cheese

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^That sounds sort of Fi-y.

I think it *is* fear-based. The mind fears the intensity of the pain it has to bear from loss, and channels it outwards as hatred instead, to ensure it never has to face that kind of pain ever again.
 

Pyropyro

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^That sounds sort of Fi-y.

I think it *is* fear-based. The mind fears the intensity of the pain it has to bear from loss, and channels it outwards as hatred instead, to ensure it never has to face that kind of pain ever again.

And that is why it is stronger than this dilute hate that I see online.
 

OrLevitate

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<not directed at you BTW, just the argument>

That would be hating out of ignorance and out of fear. Armies are also there to do stuff like rescuing people during calamities (which we have plenty here). [armies have other uses than killing] It's also out of fear since you fear what you don't understand or cannot control. [willing army not to kill is ultimately self interested in deleting the possibility of getting killed by army, (which is often in tandem with empathy for others not getting killed by army)] The morals about killing is merely a mask of what you really feel. [self interest in not getting killed; fear or logic] This hate is too dilute and too weak to take action on. [asserts military does not kill based on "platonic" morals but on something stronger/ more real, and that the reason the proposed someone would not want the army to kill people is not as motivated a reason as people in the army who kill someone, unless proposed someone has lost someone due to an army]

Hating based on loss on the other hand is more intense and more passionate. You don't hate a large group but a specific person or a specific sub-group. In this case, you focus yourself and actually get things done (whether this is ultimately good or bad is not covered by my argument).

My favorite Lantern, Atrocitus, sums it up nicely:

Do you hate? The most powerful hate is not born out of ignorance or prejudice or a perceived threat. Those three are fear in disguise. The fury that fuels my corps ignites from personal pain. Those whose lives were ravaged by greed, lust and control wield the crimson light. The rings replaced our damaged hearts. They beat for them. And they keep us alive only to hate. But at least we live.[expands on asserted motive of asserted prevalent reason of a member of a military killing someone

"Hates as good a thing to keep a man going as any." (Gregor Clegane/ George RR Martin)

Spiteful hate is a common response to the circumstantially affected type of person pyro mentioned. You (pyro) outlined the motivations of a type of circumstantially affected person more likely to commit a murder, through spite/revenge, than another type of unaffected person toting morals. How is this an argument against a person disliking armies based on either emotions or self interested survival or empathy. The only bit that seems to do so in the argument is that armies can help people during natural disasters, which doesn't negate the main function of the army. Like saying a heavy machine gun can be used to cut down trees, so the killing aspect it has is not notable enough to consider.

"""Ok: Hating an army because they killed your mother.
Not Ok: Hating an army because it's cool and I sound so edgy and (self)righteous."""

There's plenty of middle ground in between these two that if you found offensive I would find offensive that you found offensive.
 

cheese

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Seems an odd stance to take though, Pyro. Did you lose something particularly important? I can't see why the personal element or strength of the hatred should be an issue at all.
 

OrLevitate

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Seems an odd stance to take though, Pyro. Did you lose something particularly important? I can't see why the personal element or strength of the hatred should be an issue at all.

probly his example was just exceedingly heuristic. he pretty much sed that he finds it offensive when people take a moral stance based on regulating social status.
 

Pyropyro

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Seems an odd stance to take though, Pyro. Did you lose something particularly important? I can't see why the personal element or strength of the hatred should be an issue at all.

I'm actually losing a lot of people at work now; good people who built our office from scratch and earned our University reputation and fortune. The people are above me will be going out of the office soon because we were facing a government official who doesn't respect the law and want to take what is ours, well, just because. They can only do so much without support from our higher ups.

Our actual boss is disowning our office and is quietly doing the motions of transferring us to another area because they can't take the heat from the government. This is the same boss who reaped the accolades that we brought to the University just a few months ago.

My last superior, who will be going out after years of holding the line, just told me to "hold the fort".

So here I am, third in command but will be forced to be the leader of the group. I can't even quit since the people below me will suffer. These people are industrious and honest family people and I can't bear to see them without jobs just because I can't grit my teeth and take the mantle on. It's also to honor the people above me who took the fight for years, only to be betrayed by our higher-ups. (We could probably win the case if they just have backbones to implement the documents that we drafted. Turns out that they love their careers more)

So if I see a person who hates someone or a group who didn't even affect them the slightest then I'm quite offended.

I really hope this is just a phase though. I can't even talk about it in detail since I'm bound with confidentiality clauses. Normally, I'm not even easily offended by anything.
 

Pyropyro

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probly his example was just exceedingly heuristic. he pretty much sed that he finds it offensive when people take a moral stance based on regulating social status.

Yeah, the military example probably came a bit too strong. What you're trying to say is a bit closer to my point.
 

cheese

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Ok, I get it Pyro. I got like that after a few major events too and was as surprised as I was unable to stop it.
 

OrLevitate

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So if I see a person who hates someone or a group who didn't even affect them the slightest then I'm quite offended.

I really hope this is just a phase though.
Normally, I'm not even easily offended by anything.

"The harsher the judgement, the stronger the insecurity." - base groove i think

methinks maybe as long as you're 'not' offended by your circumstances, and also the degree to which you bear with your circumstances [that you're offended by], the longer and the more you will be offended by people who don't have as good a reason as you do to be offended by stuff
 

Brontosaurie

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I'm actually losing a lot of people at work now; good people who built our office from scratch and earned our University reputation and fortune. The people are above me will be going out of the office soon because we were facing a government official who doesn't respect the law and want to take what is ours, well, just because. They can only do so much without support from our higher ups.

Our actual boss is disowning our office and is quietly doing the motions of transferring us to another area because they can't take the heat from the government. This is the same boss who reaped the accolades that we brought to the University just a few months ago.

My last superior, who will be going out after years of holding the line, just told me to "hold the fort".

So here I am, third in command but will be forced to be the leader of the group. I can't even quit since the people below me will suffer. These people are industrious and honest family people and I can't bear to see them without jobs just because I can't grit my teeth and take the mantle on. It's also to honor the people above me who took the fight for years, only to be betrayed by our higher-ups. (We could probably win the case if they just have backbones to implement the documents that we drafted. Turns out that they love their careers more)

So if I see a person who hates someone or a group who didn't even affect them the slightest then I'm quite offended.

I really hope this is just a phase though. I can't even talk about it in detail since I'm bound with confidentiality clauses. Normally, I'm not even easily offended by anything.

this kind of blatant corruption is something we don't have here. so i guess you have been forced to adopt a more realistic stance toward injustices, while i can "afford" an idealistic one due to the higher standards of "democracy" (these quotation marks seem to prove my point) and security that are present in my country. it's natural that you have a more mature, nuanced and practical view of conflict, hostility, power abuse etc.

still, with this in mind, i find it peculiar that you would require a personal impact to justify hatred directed toward fascist regime or things like that. isn't the mobilization of collective derision a force that can be used to expose and dismount illegitimate authority and coercion? wouldn't it be egoistic to care only about stuff that tangibly affects one self?
 

Glaerhaidh

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Propagating false information.

Making false assumptions.

Decreasing the freedom of others to improve ones own. Silencing others, taking their space, etc.

Being dismissive, sarcastic or patronising with the main intent to annoy the other person.
 

OrLevitate

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Propagating false information.

Making false assumptions.

Decreasing the freedom of others to improve ones own. Silencing others, taking their space, etc.

Being dismissive, sarcastic or patronising with the main intent to annoy the other person.

Making false assumptions

Decreasing the freedom of others to improve ones own. Silencing others, taking their space, etc.

Being dismissive, sarcastic or patronising without the main intent being to expose the other person's lack of critical consideration.

Spiteful sensitivity over inherently controversial subjects in online environments.

Beating around the bush.

Willful ignorance.

it was more fun to post it like this, but yea all that stuff i said, in a non threatening way :D
 

TMills27

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This new 'FHRITP' trend.

I have no idea why, because it doesn't directly effect me.

It just seems idiotic and mindless.
 

Pyropyro

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this kind of blatant corruption is something we don't have here. so i guess you have been forced to adopt a more realistic stance toward injustices, while i can "afford" an idealistic one due to the higher standards of "democracy" (these quotation marks seem to prove my point) and security that are present in my country. it's natural that you have a more mature, nuanced and practical view of conflict, hostility, power abuse etc.

still, with this in mind, i find it peculiar that you would require a personal impact to justify hatred directed toward fascist regime or things like that. isn't the mobilization of collective derision a force that can be used to expose and dismount illegitimate authority and coercion? wouldn't it be egoistic to care only about stuff that tangibly affects one self?

I'm a bit more calm now though the news about our *ahem* "transfer" still stings. Yeah, it might be self-centered and egoistic to focus on your own problems even if pain tends to make you more inward looking than necessary.

I'm okay with people "hating" something so much that they do something to change it. In the mission field, I think they call it a "burden to serve people" and I respect those burdened people who get out of their own way just to help people in need.

What I was referring to are people who hates just because of social injustices and NOT lift a finger to change anything. These people usually weren't harmed because of the things/groups that they hate. Come to think of it, I might have bundled these guys with the burdened people that I mentioned on the last paragraph in my opening statement.
 

Cæilon

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Isn't this providing trolls with bait?
 

peoplesuck

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-people who will sit next to you in a empty room, also if they do that and tell you to turn down ur music because they can hear it.
-mouth breathers
-people who will sit right next to you on a bench.
-anyone who doesn't over-analyze everything
-blind faith
- the word,"they're"put before,"either"
-people who always smile

it would be impossible to stop them from offending someone, why try?
 

Perfectly Normal Beast

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hmmm.

my original intention was to promote debate on both the futility of feeling offense (as opposed to either attempting to challenge ideas one might find offensive - such as racism or homophobia, through calm, rational discussion or acceptance of the fact that there are worldviews/behaviours different from one's own which are usually the product of life circumstances entirely different from one's own) and the (to me) offensive (!) way that it has been historically and is still used to mandate "moral" behaviour by censuring "offensive" behaviour such as homosexuality, mockery of government/religion and swearing.

sorry, should have made more of an effort with the OP. i guess i am too fucking lazy to participate in a forum.

john stuart mill's on liberty helped me shape my views on this topic. this is a decent summary of his (still debated) ideas on offense: http://documents.routledge-interactive.s3.amazonaws.com/9781138793934/A2/Mill/MillHarmOffence.pdf
 

Teax

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even after reading all of the above, I still can't find a single thing.

Perfectly Normal Beast said:
my original intention was to promote debate on both the futility of feeling offense

That's the way I understood it aswell :^^:

people who will sit next to you in a empty room
this is one of the examples where ... how could it offend someone?
this looks more like a source of bother/irritation.
 

Glaerhaidh

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Feeling of offense may be thought of as information about situations that call for defensive? reactions. These reactions need to be triggered in order to protect something valuable to a person.

Is the information that something inconvenient occurs futile? Yes if the person does not intend to react to the trigger.

As to what puts people on the defensive, that varies from person to person.
 

Teax

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Feeling of offense may be thought of as information about situations that call for defensive? reactions. These reactions need to be triggered in order to protect something valuable to a person.

interesting, but then offence would actually happen everytime you need to protect something... like money? from being stolen? if you catch a thief you don't act offended, you act pissed

maybe offence is when people are incapable of protecting something they feel the need to protect. that's why offended people want you to stop "attacking" the sensitive subject in the first place.
 

peoplesuck

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this is one of the examples where ... how could it offend someone?
this looks more like a source of bother/irritation.[/QUOTE]

disregard for others personal space?
 

Yellow

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When someone takes advantage of or creates double standards for those who are under their control (like a man who riles his dog up and then punishes it for not calming down as soon as the man decides he's done playing, an officer who talks trash to someone in custody and then ups his charge when he talks back, etc.)

It offends me because it is a violation of the responsibilities that come with authority, and I would absolutely prevent/put a stop to it if I could.

I don't think being offended harms us, as long as we use the emotion constructively.
 

redbaron

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Insensate violence.
Abuse (most forms).

I'd prevent others from doing it, yes. It's hard to find a reason not to (assuming it's logistically possible). Being offended doesn't harm.

I don't take any offense to institutions typically associated with violence and abuse though. Correlation isn't causality etc.
 

EyeSeeCold

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Isn't this providing trolls with bait?
There be no wild trolls here, they've all been domesticated. :icon_pferdehaufen:

hmmm.

my original intention was to promote debate on both the futility of feeling offense (as opposed to either attempting to challenge ideas one might find offensive - such as racism or homophobia, through calm, rational discussion or acceptance of the fact that there are worldviews/behaviours different from one's own which are usually the product of life circumstances entirely different from one's own) and the (to me) offensive (!) way that it has been historically and is still used to mandate "moral" behaviour by censuring "offensive" behaviour such as homosexuality, mockery of government/religion and swearing.

sorry, should have made more of an effort with the OP. i guess i am too fucking lazy to participate in a forum.

john stuart mill's on liberty helped me shape my views on this topic. this is a decent summary of his (still debated) ideas on offense: http://documents.routledge-interactive.s3.amazonaws.com/9781138793934/A2/Mill/MillHarmOffence.pdf
It seems odd to explore a normative position on such a topic when it deals with deep behaviors that aren't liberated through reason. However one thing that stood out to me was the public vs private consideration. I'd like to think that a person has less of a claim to offense in the public sphere as in what offends me would be less protected than what harms me, though of course there should be an expectation of adherence to "respectful conduct" by agents in public because its shared space.

I think this is an interesting one to consider: should people have the civil right to theoretically be admitted to any private club or religion? In other words should a right to free association and a right to be free from discrimination extend to private voluntary/non-profit organizations?
 

EditorOne

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Written to PyroPyro: "still, with this in mind, i find it peculiar that you would require a personal impact to justify hatred directed toward fascist regime or things like that. isn't the mobilization of collective derision a force that can be used to expose and dismount illegitimate authority and coercion? wouldn't it be egoistic to care only about stuff that tangibly affects one self?"

I think this is not necessarily limited to pyropyro being personally affected but may be in large part because pyropyro is personally exposed to what amounts to betrayal. It's one of those "you've violated a principle!" moments, and it's not abstract because the physical, emotional and economic results are visible, craters and ashes everywhere.
 

Pyropyro

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Philippines
Written to PyroPyro: "still, with this in mind, i find it peculiar that you would require a personal impact to justify hatred directed toward fascist regime or things like that. isn't the mobilization of collective derision a force that can be used to expose and dismount illegitimate authority and coercion? wouldn't it be egoistic to care only about stuff that tangibly affects one self?"

I think this is not necessarily limited to pyropyro being personally affected but may be in large part because pyropyro is personally exposed to what amounts to betrayal. It's one of those "you've violated a principle!" moments, and it's not abstract because the physical, emotional and economic results are visible, craters and ashes everywhere.

I was wrong since there are indeed other ways to motivate oneself and others to challenge illegitimate authority.

One can help others indirectly though even if one simply wish to take care of their own concerns.
 
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