Some Ideas and Opinions Regarding Political, Social, and Economic Systems

[Gorgoroth]

Hey fellow INTPS,
I'm currently working on a science-fiction-fantasy project and I want some feedback and ideas of man-made or artificial political, social, and economic systems. The purpose of the scifi is to highlight the repercussions of certain systems as the resonate through all facets of life on the micro- or personal scale. The concept of the story is deeply driven by social commentary in the same vein Deep Space Nine was with the politics of Bajor. So, if you will, post some shortcomings and positive outcomes, both short-term and long-term, of systems man has adopted and refused (in theory and in practice). Thanks for your time and consideration.

 

[Ashenstar]

Ahhh. Deep Space Nine. My favorite Star Trek.

Oh... you wanted ideas and concepts?
I have a hard time thinking positively about any "systems" man has adopted.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Yeah, we just throw in ideas?

Here are some quotes I like related to political/social/economic systems. By Robert Heinlein:

• A rational anarchist believes that concepts, such as "state" and "society" and "government" have no existence save as physically exemplified in the acts of self-responsible individuals. He believes that it is impossible to shift blame, share blame, distribute blame ... as blame, guilt, responsibility are matters taking place inside human beings singly and nowhere else. But being rational, he knows that not all individuals hold his evaluations, so he tries to live perfectly in an imperfect world ... aware that his efforts will be less than perfect yet undismayed by self-knowledge of self-failure.

• Democracy can't work. Mathematicians, peasants, and animals, that's all there is — so democracy, a theory based on the assumption that mathematicians and peasants are equal, can never work. Wisdom is not additive; its maximum is that of the wisest man in a given group.
• Progress doesn't come from early risers — progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things.
• Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are wiser than one man. How's that again? I missed something.
  Autocracy is based on the assumption that one man is wiser than a million men. Let's play that over again, too. Who decides?
• Don't ever become a pessimist, Ira; a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

Do you have any specific areas of interest you want us to talk about? I'm thinking about this... and I'm not knowing where to start. There's just so much, and I'm not sure how much I'm willing to type out. :-P

 

[Gorgoroth]

I have a hard time thinking positively about any "systems" man has adopted.

As do I, but that's the beauty of it. The tale is ultimately a tragedy, as man's doom is sealed with the birth of man. In other words, we are our own vice in every way. I don't need just positive input, negative is greatly appreciated as well.

 

[Ashenstar]

Bah. I'm too tired for this right now. I'm fighting off a cold and my brain is already occupied by ridiculous papers for history class about "who does history belong to?"

I really really wish to be of some help though. I'll just shove this thread into my brain section of things to think on.

Man's doom .... is sealed ..with the birth....

Suddenly I'm thinking of a snake eating it's own tail... wait that is something else... ahh yes.. Ouroboros (thank you Wikipedia)

Hmmm well....actually this is quite interesting *reads more on wiki*

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Gorgoroth, have you played any of Sid Meier's games? I really enjoyed Alpha Centauri. Part of the game was choosing what kind of "Social Engineering" you wanted to perform on your faction.

It was pretty straightforward: You chose one option in each of the four areas: Politics, Economics, Values, Future Society.
http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Sid_Meier's_Alpha_Centauri/Social_Engineering
^ Here's a page describing some of the different options. It might take some getting used to the terms that they use...

lol Ashenstar, you're never going to finish your history papers if you let wikipedia get a hold of you.

 

[Gorgoroth]

Yeah, we just throw in ideas?

Here are some quotes I like related to political/social/economic systems. By Robert Heinlein:

Do you have any specific areas of interest you want us to talk about? I'm thinking about this... and I'm not knowing where to start. There's just so much, and I'm not sure how much I'm willing to type out. :-P

Awesome response Transcriptase. What you are posting is excellent ideological "food for thought," exactly what I need to aid me in this project. I have a close and influential self-proclaimed anarchist friend who is constantly showing me different systems at play. He loves to mention the anarcho-syndicalist society that lived in Barcelona, Spain for about 20 years (something like the 1920s-1940s) practically independent of any monarchy or political structure. They were eventually crushed by both fascist and communist forces (an intersting pair) before the end of WW2.

Honestly, I want your opinions as well, as my story will incorporate many. There are also 1-3 alien species I plan to include, so the vices of man may not apply to their sociological constructs.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

oooh, aliens! Even more exciting. How are these aliens going to be different? Because like... it *might* be appropriate to apply government styles that humans typically use, but depending on their physiology/abilities/differences-from-humans it might not be. Do you have any proto-ideas about that?

(I'll see if there are any other food-for-thought quotes that come to mind...)

 

[Gorgoroth]

Gorgoroth, have you played any of Sid Meier's games? I really enjoyed Alpha Centauri. Part of the game was choosing what kind of "Social Engineering" you wanted to perform on your faction.

Hell ya man. I love games that take days to play a single player campaign that span thousands of years. I've played several civilization games like CIV 3 and 4 and on occasion whip out call to power 2 (a game from before my time that I'm pretty sure Sid Meier had an erection for). In Call to Power 2 (ahead of its time in a lot of ways) you even get to micromanage rations (money per capita per day, hours worked per day, food per day etc.) I love making my people work like slaves for my unholy empire and starving them to my will (lol, they actually like you better when you slowly give them liberties, kind of like China). Civ 4 I loved peaceful confrontation, dominating my enemies with religion and culture so that my enemies' cities willingly joined my empire (LOL).

Ya, those games always annoyed my family members and suitemates when a "building complete" or some other notice popped up every ten seconds. Good times man, good times.

 

[Gorgoroth]

oooh, aliens! Even more exciting. How are these aliens going to be different? Because like... it *might* be appropriate to apply government styles that humans typically use, but depending on their physiology/abilities/differences-from-humans it might not be. Do you have any proto-ideas about that?

(I'll see if there are any other food-for-thought quotes that come to mind...)

Ya man, I've thought about that a bit, being a bit of a science buff. Of course they're physiological senses HAVE to be different and this will inevitably cause friction between humans and their alien counterparts, as well as the alien's developments, cultural affinities, and history. For example, one of my friends that is extremely interested in South-eastern societies pointed out that the wars that occurred had significantly lower death rates than that of western conflicts. He claimed that wars were actually fought not on the basis of power or physical contact but on the demonstrations of the leaders. BY demonstrations, I shit you not when I say.....DANCING!!! It apparently was very common for a leader to perform a sort of dance or headbutting or the like in formal competition between himself and another opposing figure. The soldiers (farmers, fishermen, etc.) would encourage their leader with woots and other vocalizations and, if they were impressed with the other performer's routine, they may have even joined the other side!!!

As far as physical differences, I'm occasionally referencing my biology book (from college, none of that bullshit we were taught in hs) for more ideas but my highly-demanding drug regiment fucks with my memory a lot and unless I write my ideas down immediately, I tend to forget them, LOL.

 

[Gorgoroth]

oooh, aliens! Even more exciting. How are these aliens going to be different? Because like... it *might* be appropriate to apply government styles that humans typically use, but depending on their physiology/abilities/differences-from-humans it might not be. Do you have any proto-ideas about that?

(I'll see if there are any other food-for-thought quotes that come to mind...)

I also have played the warhammer 40k rts Dawn Of War and that has an extremely interesting story. I think for one of the alien races I'm going to mix a bit of the culture of Tau and Eldar races from that game series (probably some sort of caste system that derives order not from power but from the limited reproductive capabilities of the race.) Funny side-note: The Eldar created a "master" caste that controls virtually every Tau move through PHEROMONES!!

Eldar reference (wiki of course):http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldar_(Warhammer_40,000)

tau reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tau_(Warhammer_40,000)