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some more of my current thoughts about Fi

nanook

a scream in a vortex
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as requested in a PM

feeling is not originally about ethics, ethics is just a higher level product of feeling, like chocolate could be thought of as a product of sweet-tooth. feeling is essentially about motivation.

if motivation exists relative to a given or imagined situation, it's extroverted. the concept of good and bad as you picture it appears to be largely extroverted. you think of something given as being good or bad.

if feeling is more general and foundational, it's introverted. introverted feeling is the cultivation of peace and harmony between opposed feeling states, independent of the external situation. for example you have a certain budged of kick ass and a certain budget of loving kindness and you need to invest them to where they most likely to become nourished and reduce the investment where they are usually frustrated, so as to not loose energy in each of them and so as to maintain energy balance between them. your extroverted ideas of what way is good and bad for you will be considered inferior by extroverted standards, you are compromising to the degree that you may appear to lack any tangible moral principle. a principle is defined in extroverted manner. it dictates how to deal with this particular external siltation.


introverted feeling thinks of everything as having priorities that are relative to each other, but unlike extroverted priorities, they will constantly be reconsidered for reasons unrelated to the objective situation, but related to how they influence each other, how they co-arise in the subject at the moment.

ethics is a generalization (categorical imperatives) of ways that sit well with human nature.

Fi is not inherently ethic, it's originally personal and possibly egocentric and must be evolved and generalized with the help of general intelligence, meaning interplay of functions.

Introverted Feeling can be (mis)perceived to be about "who you are" but can not answer the question in a worldly context. It's really more about character, about whether you're a mediator, a motivator, a forgiving person, a revengeful person, a conscientious person, an autonomous person, a sincere person. this character is not conceptual and therefore the individual may have no way of knowing who he is, as a character.

INFP can be observed as asking "who am I" not because Fi raises the question, to the contrary, it makes it seemingly redundant and that is why the INFP is an adaptive personality type who can melt himself into many social external contexts, without feeling particularly dedicated to them.

The question is raised by the mind, because it can't be answered due to the compromising quality of Fi. In contrast the ESTJ knows who he is, he is the major, the sheriff, etc, no question about it. likewise the ENFJ is steadily dedicated to and defined by particular causes, like mothering, inspiring people, etc, causes which are changing with the situation, as children get old, but can be as steady as any situation demands or are general repetitive themes of external reality.

the Fi type as a whole tries to find such worldly steadiness, because life in society requires it, but Fi drags him away from it again, it is merely orbiting around what can be defined as objective Identity in wordily terms, but is never completely at home inside of it.

If the Fi type decides to live alone, identity looses all meaning to him, it's in fact why he is so well equipped to become a loner, he won't feel empty without identity or without the relationships that define identity in objective terms.

Choosing a good partner, a partner who is conductive to personal growth, is a job for introversion. Fi is one perspective to consider here (but Ni or Si or Ti might also help).

Fe could get along with everyone, as long as the other party tries as well, but the fact wouldn't mean anything, other than that it's possible somehow.

Fi knows whether investing time in this person is generally healthy for me, and by deduction it can know, if it's healthy for you, both is taken into account when rating the interaction (Pe).

no external object (S) or situation (N) is rated here. whether you're a good or bad person or do god or bad, according to Fe concepts, is irrelevant.

it might be possible that hanging out with charles manson is fruitful for a particular reason, there might be a teaching of sorts going on. Fi might be willing to stay with that for a while. in that case the dedication to charles manson seems independent from how he behaves overtly (i assume he misbehaves madly, sorry charles, if you read this, lol), unlike any Fe relationship with him.

in this way Fi can seem unconditionally accepting by extroverted standards, but is conditional subjectively. F i endures shit, if it pays out in the big picture and is initially unconscious of that big picture, because Fi is not a conscious concept. Fi could be puzzled by it's own patience or inability to break free from a seemingly bad situation, having no logical (Te) understanding of why it feels like the right thing to do. It's just easier that way.

It's typical for an Fi type to feel "tired" about a relationship (or "awake"). meaning that no judgment of the relationship is implied here. the state of tiredness is rated as a subjective state and is is not necessarily understood or conceptualized. 'why am i tired right now? i don't know. it's not you, it's me though.'

meanwhile there may be a strong memory of how much enthusiasm there used to be. Fi may be waiting for that state to arrive again. It won't come to the conclusion that this is impossible, until much experiential evidence suggests that it is. This is why Fi has a hard time talking about it's feelings. Talking means using objective Fe-terms and they are not appropriate to the Fi mechanism.

typical scenario: Fe type wants to know how i feel today or if i liked that movie. i don't know what to say. but i may not feel like even responding and inquiring into the matter. "who cares about how i feel? i'm happy to rest in cognitive idleness right now!" this is Fi in action. it's the motivation. it can't be objectified.


ps: Ti is not a 'truth detector'. truth is an extroverted concept. it's more appropriate to speak of Te in such manner: "truth is that the client has lied". but you may have Ne in mind: "truth is what seems possible, plausible, functional." Fe truth: "you have promised, we have agreed on this, no more porn, while you are with me" Ti is managing mental interests. "this is teaching me something interesting right now, i can feel how the inspiration is building up to a strategy" - it's not related to objective truth.

ps: couldn't i have come up with another example than charles manson ? *facepalm*

ps: these ideas are heavily based on the idea that i am infp, should i be wrong about this, everything must be looked at differently. however it all seems to align perfectly with carl jung.
 

RandomGeneratedName

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Nice post! Thanks for sharing! (awesome timing)

Had to cut out most of my post, in an tangetial silly mood.

Straight to the (1 of the )point.
I agree with the INFP identity thing, and the identity crisis I had/having right now, is most definitely due to T80%>T1% being in relationship with an INFJ, and me being all or nothing in the personal growth set. Incompetent Psychiatrist screwing me over also had it's impact of my previous T identity, no doubt.

I freaked the fuck out and could not even laugh at it (80>1)

My question is though, if INTPs have existential crisises, how would you say INFPs differ if we have no set identity?

I mean, Actors, people cry "attention seeker" when they hear they go to see a therapist (cause of their own anger at their life and aren't taking responsibility.). Clearly people do not have a fucking clue how draining and deconstructive, even damaging, playing another role intensely for an extended period (or even not intensly) can be!

Would you say this is a possible fate of an INFP, if they ended up in a mask for whatever reason, for an extended time?

What other possibilities could an INFP possibly face in regards to identity? (<LOL. Self fulfilling?:D)
 

Black Rose

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introversion seems to be absorption well extroversion is resonance.
Ti and Fi absorb the conditions of the environment or the internal essence by making it part of them well Te and Fe move with the conditions in reaction counter reaction.
because they are all judgement they do act but introversion acts from the standpoint of least action allowing Pe to work on decide/perceive the condition where and when to act instead of constant action.
Fi with Pe is a relaxation or an emotion that knows "this is the moment to be this way and i understand why"
Ti with Pe is a reflection of "this action will increase my understanding of this"
with the reverse of PJ and JP perception realizes before action. Pe sees many realizations triggering other realizations well Pi sits with one realization and asks through J (?) this needs confirmation.

nanook can you tell me how Fi relates to metacognition?

http://journalpsyche.org/articles/0xc0bd.pdf
 

Brontosaurie

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good read :) you've really delved into the concept of introversion

charles manson was a super inventive r'n'b singer songwriter btw... listen to his song: "look at your game girl".
 
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