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sometimes it is so hard to respect and care for a INTJ

ashlynx

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i remember the first time i took the mbti test. well first of all hi. im new here. as y'all can see because it's obvious. anyways, the first time i took the test i got INTJ, which was fun because everyone seems to be up their ass since they're visionaries or whatever. but that just didn't seem like me, because i do in fact have the potential to become a visionary if i wanted to. im just too lazy to even care enough about being steriotyped as a genius.
am i smart? sometimes. everyone is a bit smart. but not INTJ kind of smart. anyways, i'm not here to be sucking my own d*ck and telling some other smart strangers online about my IQ as if that means anything at all.
my best friend is INTJ. i am for sure INTP. i know that because i thought about it for a lot of time and came to this conclusion. something she would never be willing to try, for example, because she thinks online tests are useless. i rarely see something as useless.
we tend to argue a lot, mostly because of her batshit crazy god complex. she thinks shes smarter than everyone. that includes me. i know i'm smart, as ive said before, but i would never waste precious time comparing myself to other people. i literally. don't. care. and for most of the time i won't say anything about it. if she wants to believe it that it's not any of my business. whatever makes her happy and don't get on my nerves.
the thing is i know she loves me very much and because she loves me it extremely annoys her that i have this huge potential and never cared enough to do something about it. since she's annoyed she tries to "wake me up" and "make me see the truth" by being an absolute asshole and always putting me down with her harsh and pointless criticzing. i have found myself thinking she's ignorant and dumb several times, despite being very aware that she has just as much intellectual capacity as me. she simply has no empathy or common sense when expressing her points of view, which makes people avoid her and ignore what she's saying. that includes me. i guess this is more of a rant than anything but if anyone has similar experiences of conflict with INTJs or even some good advice i could use to improve this relationship that would be nice. i don't want to drop her but it upsets me that she thinks she's smarter then me just because we work differently and i like to take a little longer to process and think about whatever is on my way before acting. i don't even want her to think i'm smart, it's just irritating to see how stupid she's being without realizing it is damaging our relationship and overall all of her personal connections.
 

Minuend

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Welcome to the forum

Regardless of type, sometimes people are mentally unhealthy or downright mentally ill. If she's treating you like shit, that's just being an abusive asshole regardless of what her type is.

I don't get too much of an impression of what type of person she is from this. Low empathy usually indicates a problem of some sort. Sometimes it's growing up in an environment where you didn't have to or didn't learn to take others into consideration. It can be being manipulative and enjoying it and pushing on people and pretending to not understand why they get upset. It can be severe stress and trauma resulting in selfish and controlling behaviour that overrides empathy. It can be neurological deviancy (best case clueless autism, worst case self centered narcissism or psychopathy). Etc

When she's chasing away everyone because of her attitude and lack of empathy, it's more than just being "a blunt INTJ" or so. There's a real issue involved and she will never get better unless she resolves it. If it is resolvable.

What does she say when you argue about this? Does she ever admit fault with herself and is willing to change things about her that upsets others? Have you seen evidence of such a change/ did it ever go further than just saying she would change? How often does she get in the mood where she's pushing you? How does she irritate other people?

If she's dead set on her opinion, then avoiding the topic is probably better than trying to convince her. As long as she has that mentally unhealthy issue, the chance of her continuing to push regardless of any rational argument is high. Because there are other thoughts and feelings that drives her need to focus on that issue that override all logic.
 

Cognisant

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i am for sure INTP. i know that because i thought about it for a lot of time and came to this conclusion.
Lol classic.

Excuse me if this comes across as crude and I don't know how old you are but is she your girlfriend, can you fuck her? I say this because she seems a bit high strung, INTJs are always a bit full-on, a bit "my way or the highway" and that never really goes away but they can mellow out a bit and everyone mellows out a bit after a good lay.

She may still think you're dumb and useless, as INTJs are want to do, but if you can lay pipe like Bob the builder then you're not entirely useless y'know?
 

ashlynx

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Welcome to the forum

What does she say when you argue about this? Does she ever admit fault with herself and is willing to change things about her that upsets others? Have you seen evidence of such a change/ did it ever go further than just saying she would change? How often does she get in the mood where she's pushing you? How does she irritate other people?
as i am now thinking more clearly it should be easier for me to pin some essential facts to this equation.

she was diagnosed histrionic disorder.

she usually explodes first and then come to think about what she said. i have pointed to her that whenever she feels trapped she will immediately start to project everything she hates about herself onto other people. she agrees with me and i can see its not only to make me shut up and stop talking.

she has, in fact, even thanked me for being patient and not losing my temper while pointing it out during a fight.

now, there is no evidence of change although she seems open to conversation about it. at first she will try to humiliate you and say you're an inferior human being who victimizes yourself and will never do any better in life because blah blah blah. it's curious because she does not respect people who don't set their own boundaries and stand up for themselves, but when one does it, her quick reaction is to say "youre being dramatic".

she usually gets in the mood to be a dick whenever i procrastinate or do anything that doesn't make sense to her. it makes her insanely angry that people aren't always able to see the world the way she does.
she gets on people's nerves for being too harsh about her truth and not accepting any other theories. i will admit that she's right 99% of times and i watch that with admiration and amazeness. it's just that she has a difficulty to perceive when its not the case. she justifies her being an asshole with loving me so much that its upsetting to watch me make bad choices for myself (she is not exaggerating, I actually tend to self-sabotaging quite a lot). whenever she snaps i just ignore it and she mostly always apologize minutes after.

you wanted to know more about her personality.
shes very efficient and does everything she needs even if it takes her a while to actually get up and do it. she can think real fast. shes a bit impulsive and has some trouble trying to stay cool. I can be just as cold as she come off as, but people usually see me as the good vibes loyal friend because I have common sense and know how to act in public lol. as for her, not so much, and despite having a big heart people think she's an evil manipulative monster.
she does know how to manipulate and that's not always a bad thing so it doesnt bother me as long as shes not getting on my way or trying to control my life. which is how i feel when we argue. where she lacks empathy is that she is literally unable to breathe and try to think as the other person. she refuses to leave her own mind. sometimes i can see shes struggling because she knows she's unable to do that. it's kind of sad. people don't get it and immediately push her away but after analyzing her personality for months i came to the conclusion she is not a narc, as she is not trying to take advantage on me and we've been friends for a long time now. there is no finantial reason for her to stick around me. i am not affective or selfless enough for her to be draining my feelings or good will.
she has shown signs of non-calculated affection and even made sacrifices for me to be around. i've seen her crying like a baby while she begged me to not leave because i'm her best friend and she's trying her best to figure how everything works.

sorry if its messy im just thinking. is there anything else you want to know?
 

ashlynx

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i am for sure INTP. i know that because i thought about it for a lot of time and came to this conclusion.
Lol classic.

Excuse me if this comes across as crude and I don't know how old you are but is she your girlfriend, can you fuck her? I say this because she seems a bit high strung, INTJs are always a bit full-on, a bit "my way or the highway" and that never really goes away but they can mellow out a bit and everyone mellows out a bit after a good lay.

She may still think you're dumb and useless, as INTJs are want to do, but if you can lay pipe like Bob the builder then you're not entirely useless y'know?
nah, i would never date someone like her. i avoid people with this mindset like the plague. ive thought about strategically ghosting her several times and its tempting but shes like my little project, it would be a shame to do so considering ive spent so much time working to shape her personality better and she didn't even notice it.
she's my best friend. i like her. she thinks im her pet dummy irresponsible friend who she has to be constantly watching when in fact ive been watching for her from a distance, making sure everything is fine and under control. it's cute.
 

Yellow

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I'm just trying to wrap my head around the concept of any NT diagnosed with Histrionic PD. Unless we're talking an ENTJ who one day starts wearing nothing but Napoleonic naval regalia and ignores you unless you call him "Admiral"... That could probably happen. He'd follow you around giving you ship-related orders, and pretend to be drowning at sea if you try to ditch him.

Like, Cluster A, totally. Cluster C, maybe.

Cluster B's (Histrionic, Borderline, Antisocial, and Narcissistic PDs) have higly external loci of control, and are lacking in insight (they actively avoid it, actually). This leads them to really struggle in understanding the difference between thoughts and feelings. So a Cluster B may think they're being "objective" and "real", when they're actually acting on emotion and impulse.

If she's Histrionic, she's probably being abusive, not "helpful" -- taking the tactic of making you think you're not good enough to find other friends. This behavior might come as easily as breathing to her. Does she ever attempt to sabotage your other friendships, or try to draw your attention with a crisis or some other dramatic thing when you're not entirely focused on her?

Back to the point: I can see a Cluster B's self-image being that of an NT, but actually being one is another thing altogether.

Most INTJ-like folk are very capable of being gentle in the relationships they care about. It's just that some don't bother to put effort into the relationships they don't care about, which makes them look like assholes.
 

ashlynx

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I feel like she tries to do that sometimes but I always find a way to kindly cut it off. Or not so kindly. Anyways, whenever she throws a fit I completely ignore it because I'm aware she might be craving attention and attention is still attention, good or bad. She is gentle. She is kind. Maybe more than I'm capable of being. It's just this specific behavior that really bugs me because more than anything I want to have my own peace of mind and if the issue can't be solved I might as well just drop her, even if we're good friends. Do you feel like its a waste of time? I don't want to help her with mental issues, that's up to a professional. But it feels somehow rude to just cut off someone for a condition that is not even their fault. She is also one of the only people I know that absolutely gets me and accept my lack of whatever is lacking that makes everyone think I have aspergers.
 

Yellow

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If you feel like the relationship gives as much as it takes, there's no reason to throw it away lightly. Maybe set some boundaries around the problematic behavior and enforce them consistently (with neutral energy). If it succeeds, it will improve your relationship. If it doesn't, then it was good practice with a life skill and one more piece of information for you to consider.
 

ashlynx

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I see. That's what I thought. I will update this thread if anything changes. Thanks for sharing your point of view.
I came up the INTP-INTJ relationship because we differ in very specific paths, and for what I've read about this dynamic it seems to fit my problem, if we put aside the whole histrionic disorder thing. She wants me to see whatever she sees the way she sees it. I want to hold different points of view and take my own time to know what I think about everything. I should be allowed to do that.
 

byhisello99

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I'm just trying to wrap my head around the concept of any NT diagnosed with Histrionic PD. Unless we're talking an ENTJ who one day starts wearing nothing but Napoleonic naval regalia and ignores you unless you call him "Admiral"... That could probably happen. He'd follow you around giving you ship-related orders, and pretend to be drowning at sea if you try to ditch him.

Like, Cluster A, totally. Cluster C, maybe.

Cluster B's (Histrionic, Borderline, Antisocial, and Narcissistic PDs) have higly external loci of control, and are lacking in insight (they actively avoid it, actually). This leads them to really struggle in understanding the difference between thoughts and feelings. So a Cluster B may think they're being "objective" and "real", when they're actually acting on emotion and impulse.

If she's Histrionic, she's probably being abusive, not "helpful" -- taking the tactic of making you think you're not good enough to find other friends. This behavior might come as easily as breathing to her. Does she ever attempt to sabotage your other friendships, or try to draw your attention with a crisis or some other dramatic thing when you're not entirely focused on her?

Back to the point: I can see a Cluster B's self-image being that of an NT, but actually being one is another thing altogether.

Most INTJ-like folk are very capable of being gentle in the relationships they care about. It's just that some don't bother to put effort into the relationships they don't care about, which makes them look like assholes.
CARDS ON THE TABLE: I did med school in my forties in Germany, completed the first year of a residency in psychiatry, then had to return to the US for family reasons. Just the exams to practice medicine would be difficult since I had studied in German, and English medical terminology wasn't native, although my mother tongue is English. Second, finding a residency in your forties is a major undertaking; I had to support my family, so I did other things. I have not practiced medicine since 1990, am not currently licensed to practice medicine anywhere, and you probably should think of me as an exceptionally well-informed lay person.

Has she received a diagnosis of Histrionic Personality Disorder? If you diagnosed it with your medical degree from Google University, it has little value. If she is diagnosed with HPD, be very very (repeat ad nauseam) careful. She will seem to be narcissitic, she will display empathy, she is probably sexually provocative, and there's a whole lot more to it. It's all an act. HPDs cannot tolerate the existence of a world view that does not place them in the center, and will manipulate, cajole and use an incredible number of stratagems to control others to be focused only on them. Jerry Sandusky used HPD as a defense in his child rape trial. He's in jail and will probably be there until he dies.

It is not impossible that someone with HPD believes she loves you. It highly likely that this is self-delusion. You are a prop in her one-act/one-person play. You can't fix her. My wife does not have HPD, her inability to accept that anyone's world view that is not identical to hers is the result of a horrific childhood. Suffice it to say that the pedophile was the better parent. It took me more than 30 years to realize that she had never loved me, she was in love with someone who looked like me, but was her inside. After a stroke at the age of 30 I developed major depressive disorder and was in it for decades. I believed her accusations. I no longer do, but I cannot recapture my adulthood, nor will I ever experience genuine romantic love. I'll die within about 18 months regardless of what I do, so my focus is leaving her and our genius-level younger daughter, fully disabled, able to support themselves.

Love yourself, she cannot. Save yourself, no one else can.
 

ashlynx

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No she was diagnosed by a psychiatrist. Also ok
 
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