# space time geometry

#### sushi

##### Prolific Member
what do you think is the fundamental shape of space at planck (very small or quantum) level?

(or fundamental geometric pattern)
is it a square?
a circle?
a triangle?
a fractal?
a pentagon?

i try to think of as many geometric shapes as possible using a line, since one line is sufficient to draw a 2d shape, and they can be reduced to below:

linear shape ( sides made of only lines)
curved shape (circular)
shapes with both linear or curved lines
shapes with right angle and vertices
shapes with non right angle and vertices

of course I am ruling out the 3 dimensional objects since they are just mixture of objects in two dimensional.

#### sushi

##### Prolific Member
you can try this using a toothpick (or straws) to build any shape/polygon.

but they are not circular or curved.

#### HDINTP

##### Well-Known Member
Now then would you get me wrong or get angry or something if I just made sort of a guess?

#### Rixus

##### I introverted think. Therefore, I am.
When you're building 3 dimensional shapes using graphical programming, all shapes are made our of cones. Whenever you play a game, the world is made up entirely of very small cones. That's what I was taught in graphical programming in University. If you look at older games, take the original Alone In The Dark from 1992, the resolution was low enough that you could see them. I don't think it applies to things like walls, though, which I think we're made up of cubes.

Can you see?

#### HDINTP

##### Well-Known Member
When you're building 3 dimensional shapes using graphical programming, all shapes are made our of cones. Whenever you play a game, the world is made up entirely of very small cones. That's what I was taught in graphical programming in University. If you look at older games, take the original Alone In The Dark from 1992, the resolution was low enough that you could see them. I don't think it applies to things like walls, though, which I think we're made up of cubes.

Can you see?

Don't tell me that's what you learned at your university course I think you figured that out much earlier?

Though technically you did not tell ME

#### Rixus

##### I introverted think. Therefore, I am.
Don't tell me that's what you learned at your university course I think you figured that out much earlier?

Though technically you did not tell ME

I thought it was done through wire frames, with textures mapped over them and a subdivision surface procedure done to smooth it off, which judging by Sushi's theory of using match sticks is similar to his/her conclusion.

#### Artsu Tharaz

##### The Lamb
I think it resembles the whole universe, which I take to be a sphere with a neuron-like membranous structure embedded within it. As above, so below.

#### sushi

##### Prolific Member
Now then would you get me wrong or get angry or something if I just made sort of a guess?

guesses are supposed to be wrong.

but just speculate what kind of shape/dimension space can be at quantum level. Because i don't believe it is nothingness and shapeless.

#### sushi

##### Prolific Member
The most standard shape in reality is of course the square or rectangle.

other than that it is:

circle
triangle (which cones are based on)

then there are more complex polygons (from 5 to n sided):
like hexagon
octagon
pentagon
decagon etc

finally curved (non linear) shapes like:
helix
spiral
hyberbola
parabola
ellipse
shapes with a hole inside

it is basically how many closed shapes you can draw using a line.

Mandelbrot

#### Haim

##### Worlds creator
It has no shape, shape/point is a made up axiom, a way for us to understand the world, at this size our abstraction of realty make no sense.
If anything I would guess that the closest thing to it is a wave.

#### sushi

##### Prolific Member
It has no shape, shape/point is a made up axiom, a way for us to understand the world, at this size our abstraction of realty make no sense.
If anything I would guess that the closest thing to it is a wave.
PHP:

I disagree. All dimensions and objects are defined by shapes.

or lines, points, curves, angles.

Especially recently, some claim quantum space is discrete rather than continuuous.

#### sushi

##### Prolific Member

[bimgx=300]http://www.supercoloring.com/sites/default/files/styles/coloring_thumbnail/public/cif/2015/01/tessellation-with-hexagon-triangle-and-square-coloring-pages.png[/bimgx]

[bimgx=300]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mxw7oGK298s/maxresdefault.jpg[/bimgx]

#### Haim

##### Worlds creator
PHP:

I disagree. All dimensions and objects are defined by shapes.

or lines, points, curves, angles.

Especially recently, some claim quantum space is discrete rather than continuuous.
shapes a made of lines, line is made up by infinity or big number of points, point is made up of?
We are talking about point scale here, it can not go infinity, there can not be a point because it can not be made up of infinity smaller things, there is no infinity data.
This math axiom is just a convenient way for us to look at realty, not realty itself, there are no perfect lines in realty.
I think that this is like the cases when Newton physics break and quantum physics kick in, thinking in terms of Newton physics in quantum scale does not make sense.

#### EyeSeeCold

##### lust for life
I think that this is like the cases when Newton physics break and quantum physics kick in, thinking in terms of Newton physics in quantum scale does not make sense.

Wait, so you're saying the fundamental shape of the universe is Schrödinger cats?

#### Haim

##### Worlds creator
Wait, so you're saying the fundamental shape of the universe is Schrödinger cats? ******************
Strange as much as Schrödinger cat(and more when you go to a scale less than an electron).

#### sushi

##### Prolific Member
my latest guess is probably a spinor.

(search 3d modeling to find possible answers and shapes)

#### sushi

##### Prolific Member
My latest hypothesis is that it is made of square boxes.

since space time is akin to a fluid, the fluid must be inside a container.

the most likely shape of a container is a square box, given the x y (horizontal and vertical) axis.

or a square grid.

if it is not square grid or boxes, i don't know what possibilty it is out there.

#### elliptoid

##### the void is a lie
In A Brief HIstory of Time I think Stephen Hawking touches on the idea of loops and spin networks, and then Lee Smolin in much more detail Time Reborn...with loop quantum gravity..
Anyway I think these physicists were saying that the smallest bit of space, like what you are looking for, is not in any kind of shape per se, because it is created by loops or spin networks which I believe are supposed to be infinitesimally small fields of interaction between the spin properties of subatomic particles.

Yup I could have it all wrong but I think that's what they were saying.

#### sushi

##### Prolific Member
In A Brief HIstory of Time I think Stephen Hawking touches on the idea of loops and spin networks, and then Lee Smolin in much more detail Time Reborn...with loop quantum gravity..
Anyway I think these physicists were saying that the smallest bit of space, like what you are looking for, is not in any kind of shape per se, because it is created by loops or spin networks which I believe are supposed to be infinitesimally small fields of interaction between the spin properties of subatomic particles.

Yup I could have it all wrong but I think that's what they were saying.

He is among the individuals who could grasp it but then no one is sure what happens at quantum level.

anyway, a point/dot moving in any direction becomes a path/line, a line that close on itself becomes a shape.

when you break/divide any random line into many line segments, it is easy to find symetry and generalizations on how many types of lines other than straight line can be drawn.