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Text Based RPG

Cognisant

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So I've been reading some D&D stories on Reddit (and laughing my ass off) and it seems a play-by-post RPG can work, now when it comes to being organized we all know I'm not very reliable so I'm not promising anything but I'm going to try to host a game and we'll see how it goes.

I think this might work for me because it lets me make shit up as I go along.

In the beginning every player is going to start off in a different town and until you meet each other it's going to be a fairly single player affair, although there will be NPC adventurers for you to party up with. The fun thing is I'm not going to tell you who is a player and who isn't, we're going to be doing all this via PM and I will relay inter-party chat between players. Also when a party is formed you'll have to elect a leader, this person or NPC (you don't know) decides where the party goes and the gist of what they get up to, although anyone may object or leave the party at any time.

I'm going to be reading and replying to PMs on a twice daily basis (4pm and 4am Australian Eastern Standard Time, AEST) and basically you're taking your turns in parallel. Think of it as two turns per day and if you don't take your turn before the next turn period starts your character doesn't do anything, or if it's a combat situation they'll fight defensively. When you're in a party you only get one turn per day (unless you're the leader) because the leader spends one of their turns per day leading, which is to say they decide the figurative direction the party takes for the next day period with one turn (in which they can take no actions) and then take a regular turn with everyone else in parallel.

So being in a party means time flows slower for you relative to players who aren't in a party but as a party I can throw greater quests at you which will come with greater rewards so it'll be more than worth it and when single players interact with parties (that may or may not have other players in them) I'll slow their time rate to match, which sucks because you're not gaining anything for it.

TL;DR get in a party ASAP!

Now you can gather a party of NPCs but I'll be playing them as realistically as I can, they're all going to have their own goals, motivations, personalities, etc, so in other words being a successful leader means keeping everyone happy, and you never know who is a PC...

Speaking of player characters when you create your character just give me the species/build/name and I'll fit you into the world, then you decide what your character's personality is and how this relates to the circumstances they find themselves in.

Okay I think that's everything (about how a text RPG works) so we're going to be playing Pathfinder rules, you can have any race/class/equipment you like (and can afford) although keep in mind that if you play something like a drider or a vampire the world will be trying to kill you and you're partying options will be limited, in other words I'll make you the monster the other PCs are contracted to kill.

Also I think getting one PC to kill another's family is fucking hilarious :D
Needless to say killing other PCs isn't just allowed, it's encouraged.
Well the town guards might have something to say...

When it comes to rolling dice I'll be doing all of that, you just tell me what you want your character to do and I'll work out what skills are relevant and what happens based upon the results you get. I'll try to run this as reasonably as possible, for example if my Drake doge incident happened I'd explain the failure with a high modifier as your character being perfectly capable of dodging the attack but the victim of simple bad luck. For example if your character is fighting in a tavern you would have easily dodged the fireball if the crowd hadn't closed in behind you for a better view of the fight.

Acting on your turn outside of combat is a matter of writing what you want to do and describing what you want to do, what you describe doesn't actually happen until I roll the appropriate skills for it. You might describe leaping upon a table, rushing to the far end and impaling the corrupt noble with your sword but if you failed your acrobatics check you'll just make a fool of yourself and that's all you'll have done that turn. So when possible do what's easy/important first then follow up with your riskier and less important actions, in the situation above whether you drew your sword and cried "death to the tyrant" before or after jumping on the table will make a big difference to how everyone reacts to your failure.

There is a reasonable limit to how much you can do in a single turn, outside of combat it's approximately one minute and in combat approximately five seconds, if what you describe to me takes too long I'll simply tell you how much you got done and you can choose whether on not to continue with your next turn.

Questions?

Who's interested? NO CHARACTER SHEETS HERE!!!
Btw a formal character sheet isn't necessary, you can just tell me the details.


edit:
 

Jennywocky

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So what, we make up a regular character sheet and send it to you? First level? Or what exactly?
 

Cognisant

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Level 5, 20pts for ability scores, two traits, any race, any class.

Post details in a PM to me, no need for sheet format.
 

Jennywocky

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I want to play a killer whale that can summon fire... oh damn, everyone pretend you didn't hear me say that, if that one shows up in the campaign it's not me. Really.
 

Blarraun

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I wanted / want to host a pbf some time ago but it remains impossible due to time constraints.

This, however, is much more likely from the player's perspective.

PM's on this forum are a difficulty, why not e-mail?
 

redbaron

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What algorithm are we using for HP? Max each level?

Not entirely sure what class I'll play yet, wanting to know a few details. I know you 'encourage' PC fights, but is the RPG still going to generally be based around party-cooperation adventuring?
 

Cognisant

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What algorithm are we using for HP? Max each level?
Half.

Not entirely sure what class I'll play yet, wanting to know a few details. I know you 'encourage' PC fights, but is the RPG still going to generally be based around party-cooperation adventuring?
I envision a very narrative driven experience, after all with each PM I need to give you enough information to decide what to do on your turn without consulting me because sending PMs back and forth is going to take too long. What this means is that you'll walk into a store and the clerk will tell you what wares are avalible, mix in a bit of the town's history and argue with his wife about something, or when you walk down a street I'll discribe things with an unnecessary level of detail then elaborate next turn on whatever you choose to interact with or pay attention to.

With every post my notes on each town, the inhabitants, and the world itself will grow and as players do stuff other players may hear about it or perhaps witness something related, your paths may cross and your goals may align or conflict, whatever I find most interesting from a storytelling perspective.

That's what this is all about, storytelling, or rather my entertainment, I tell the story but you choose where it goes (insofar as dice allow), I'm going to give you jobs, families, homes, and then I'm going to test you. Y'see giving you all this and taking it away isn't entertaining for me, rather I want to give you interesting choices, does the paladin become a thug to save his sick daughter, how does the orc barbarian deal with working in retail, how does the craftsman cope with being conscripted by the town guard for a suicide mission?

You can't optimise a character for my world, I'm an asshole :D
 

Jennywocky

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So it's a PvA setting? ("Players vs Asshole")? :confused:
 

Cognisant

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I suppose the whole party thing gave you the wrong idea, but it's still true, being more socially connected means your character has a story without me making a story, because seriously if you're just laying peacefully in a grassy field it's either because I'm lulling you into a false sense of security, intentionally making you paranoid, or something about to happen.

It's the law of narrative folks, people want drama, action, surprise, suspense, thrills, spills and conflict.

So it's a PvA setting? ("Players vs Asshole")?
Within limits, if you couldn't succeed and indeed thrive it wouldn't be interesting now would it?
 

redbaron

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So the incentive for us to play is...what exactly?

It's the law of narrative folks
Sure, except it's an RPG not a TV show. This sounds more like watching a TV show or watching other people create their own characters for an RPG than actually playing one yourself. Having your character's background pre-determined (and from the sounds of it, actions too) is kind of defeating the purpose.

Hey I'll still test it out though. Maybe I'm wrong and this could turn out better than I anticipate.
 

Blarraun

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It's difficult for the DM to emulate the entire world even when the players are interacting with each other, which allows the DM some relief.

Cog said:
I envision a very narrative driven experience, after all with each PM I need to give you enough information to decide what to do on your turn without consulting me because sending PMs back and forth is going to take too long. What this means is that you'll walk into a store and the clerk will tell you what wares are avalible, mix in a bit of the town's history and argue with his wife about something, or when you walk down a street I'll discribe things with an unnecessary level of detail then elaborate next turn on whatever you choose to interact with or pay attention to.
This looks good in theory. I don't see this working after we start playing and you suddenly have to write detailed posts to keep us busy and entertained.

It's certainly not unusual to have a GM tell a solo story, but I don't see why we would lose the team component and what would compensate for, arguably, the best element of the narrative.

Is it necessary to create a character for it? I could give you a name, inventory, background and class to keep things simple, because I don't see why the player vs GM combat would matter at all. Introducing random element would ruin some of your pre-planned outcomes and it would be easier done just storytelling imo.
 

Jennywocky

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That's not implausible, if you're just aiming for a pure narrative and story is everything. Having to add random factors will just complicate turns and lengthen the amount of time needed to resolve what happens. of course, if players feel like they are being unfairly treated in the story, then they might not want to play anymore. But it's possible to just eyeball a scenario and generally pick the "probable outcome" based on user input and only occasionally have to add a random element to determine outcome.
 

Cognisant

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My latest theory on how this all works:

Outside of combat it's like reading a choose your own adventure book except you get to make up the options yourself because I'll be writing the proverbial book as we go, that's all easy enough.

Combat on the other hand involves making tactical decisions which requires exchanging a lot of information, I suppose I can just give you a simple grid with obstacles/enemies/yourself marked on it but you're not going to know how high/low your initiative is before you act... then again that's actually more realistic.

Having multiple people act simultaneously presents a problem since for example five people may try to go through a doorway at once, common sense is that I assume you all enter sequentially, maybe you don't all make it through because it takes longer to enter in single file and if I'm feeling mean I'll roll a reflex save on having a three stooges moment.

Hmm maybe it would be better if rather than separating you I had everyone start together and allowed free discussion amongst yourselves, it's not like I can stop you anyway, this is a neat solution but then we get back to you lot being a bunch of random individuals with no real reason to work together other than being players in a game who have to.

All of this was inspired by a story I read in which the player role played a benevolent necromancer who went around toppling corrupt regimes and teaching people necromancy to use the dead to farm crops and protect them from monsters. At the end the character is confronted by a bunch of adventurers who have been going around undoing all his good work mistakenly believing they were saving the land from an evil lich. Those adventurers were players of another campaign the DM was running in the same world, the lecture they got from the necromancer was a major turning point in their campaign and just an awesome moment of roleplay.
 

Cognisant

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I'm still waiting on character details, Jenny has already given me some backstory on hers but thus far that's all I've got.

I could just come up with a bunch of characters myself, this would make it much easier to fit them together as a party indeed I could even devise the backstories. However I know I'd be asking a lot of my players to role play characters they didn't create themselves, especially if they're no combat optimized.

I dunno guys tell me what you want.
 

redbaron

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I'm having a hard time finding motivation to play because of what Blarraun referred to.

It's certainly not unusual to have a GM tell a solo story, but I don't see why we would lose the team component and what would compensate for, arguably, the best element of the narrative.
I'm all for GM narrative and whatever else but as someone whose main interest in RPG's is party synergy in combat and non-combat encounters, not having that makes it...well, pointless really since it's 95% of the reason I enjoy it in the first place.

I have characters ready to go, just...meh. I'll submit it anyway I guess.
 

Jennywocky

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What's the stats for albino rhinoceros again? Will I get a charge and trample attack? And can anyone else in the story speak rhino, albino variant? Or should I just stick with Elven?
 

Cognisant

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After all this I'm honestly not that motivated anymore either.
 

Jennywocky

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Dammit. I've been working on this for three days.
 

Absurdity

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I miss threads like this to be honest. :o

[Ignoring the derail of course...]
 

Cognisant

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Dammit. I've been working on this for three days.
I knew you were slow but damn :D

I'll still give it a go if anyone really wants to, if only to see first hand what goes wrong.
 

Jennywocky

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I knew you were slow but damn :D

I'll still give it a go if anyone really wants to, if only to see first hand what goes wrong.
I'm not slow, I'm thorough and thought-out. * beams*
 

Blarraun

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Let me try to probe you a little bit before we get stuck...
Having multiple people act simultaneously presents a problem since for example five people may try to go through a doorway at once, common sense is that I assume you all enter sequentially, maybe you don't all make it through because it takes longer to enter in single file and if I'm feeling mean I'll roll a reflex save on having a three stooges moment.
Excuse my direct language at any point, its main purpose is to efficiently relay information.

The above problem exists only because you are assuming it is preferrable to emulate a separate world for each player, something like this is easily laid off as overcomplicated game design. Since the world is the same for each and every one of us, why should we be subject to a hierarchy? Isn't it simpler to allow the players to communicate with each other and see where they are? If any of us decides to split off and go on their own, I would doubt that any other person would try to follow them, even after breaking the rule of minimal metagaming involved, it would really have to be a bit of clever role playing to track another player down.

I think you are not really sure what you want to do and you are overcomplicating a problem that emerged from your initial assumptions.
Hmm maybe it would be better if rather than separating you I had everyone start together and allowed free discussion amongst yourselves, it's not like I can stop you anyway, this is a neat solution but then we get back to you lot being a bunch of random individuals with no real reason to work together other than being players in a game who have to.
Further proves my point that you are clueless. Not to mention that you are a leader (GM = Leader, at least in the early stages) and you shouldn't show us that you are lost, because it reduces our motivation as well.

This is a very common problem that inexperienced RPG players face after their initial experience with the idea. There is no rule and especially not a rule that we have to be unrestricted and free. If you want to have a party then tell your players that some of their conflicting choices just won't work, or maybe put it all together and enjoy the show. There are many ways to begin the adventure, the cliche being the typical tavern meeting, this is also something you can research yourself and observe how the formation of a party can come from either the players or the GM's invention, or both.
All of this was inspired by a story I read in which the player role played a benevolent necromancer who went around toppling corrupt regimes and teaching people necromancy to use the dead to farm crops and protect them from monsters. At the end the character is confronted by a bunch of adventurers who have been going around undoing all his good work mistakenly believing they were saving the land from an evil lich. Those adventurers were players of another campaign the DM was running in the same world, the lecture they got from the necromancer was a major turning point in their campaign and just an awesome moment of roleplay.
Of course you were impressed by that example, why wouldn't you be impressed by the coordinated effort that merged two successful campaigns into one. The important part is that you were looking at the wrong part. I would personally try to emulate the beginnings of the whole thing, or even the beginnings of the beginnings of the respective game masters and players involved.

I dunno guys tell me what you want.
Just trash the whole project and put us against a horde of demons, or something equally trivial and simple so that we could take over from there! Really, keep things basic and get us involved in a basic (however inventive) scenario, you need to get more experience to do megaprojects later.
After all this I'm honestly not that motivated anymore either.
Damn it, man up! You are the leader, make us do stuff immediately so that we stay motivated, show us that you are motivated.
I'd say making and following bad decisions is better than indecision here.
One basic warning here, the way you are trying to provide each of us a solo experience might be good in theory, but it's a lot of work for you and while you seem motivated to begin, I highly doubt you will stay motivated to produce many more lines of text than necessary just to keep your fancy project going, not to mention the deteriorating quality and other problems that occur when your initial (often best) ideas were used.

I'll give you my basic character info now and more when I know what's going on.
 

redbaron

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Don't give up Cog :(

I understand the concept of making us start individually and then having us try and find a party (hopefully other players) because it's a lot more 'realistic' than just slapping people together and giving some blanket reason that may or may not really mesh well with all of the different backgrounds. There's a few ways to get around this from both the GM and player side of things. Yours is a way I haven't seen used and I guess Blar/Jen/myself are a bit skeptical of - but I'm not going to debate its drawbacks here any more.

I'm sending you a character sheet now because I want to give it a try before I dismiss the idea.

What's our starting gold?
 

Jennywocky

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Sent the stat block.
I send no char of mine before its time.
 

Cognisant

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The above problem exists only because you are assuming it is preferrable to emulate a separate world for each player, something like this is easily laid off as overcomplicated game design.
I know it's overcomplicated but when everyone knows what everyone else knows it destroys all but the most contrived inner party conflict, for instance Rake has some points in sleight of hand so maybe I might have him pickpocket someone (he has a reason to do this) but I can't do that because everyone will know and even if you pretend you don't you're not going to let Rake stand behind you.

Now if Rake pick-pocketed someone who after the fact deduced that it was probably him but doesn't have enough proof to openly call him out on it then they might whisper their suspicions to other party members or look for an opportunity to go through Rake's stuff, or whatever.

My point is when everybody knows what everybody else knows there's no intrigue and as a DM creating intrigue is a really easy way to create an interesting story, the characters may go around having the most generic adventures ever but if there's inner party conflict between the players the generic adventure is just the background to the emergent narrative that's unfolding.

Damn it, man up! You are the leader, make us do stuff immediately so that we stay motivated, show us that you are motivated.
The second I start showing a lack of motivation I start receiving PMs.

You bastards.
*sigh*
Alright let me find my maps...

What's our starting gold?
Half average.
 

redbaron

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My point is when everybody knows what everybody else knows there's no intrigue
Oh man. If you think that each player in my campaign knows what everyone else knows, you're sorely mistaken. To be honest the real problem is how you play. You make these characters based on subtlety - excellent boosts to skills like bluff, disguise and whatnot and then you go ahead and take the most blatantly obvious actions that betray the character's true nature in about 15 minutes of the session. Everyone in the party knew from about 30 minutes into the first session that they didn't trust Takashi. You killed the intrigue for yourself by making your own character and his intentions totally transparent.

You could probably use the whisper function in roll20 to hide your actions more as opposed to announcing to the party: "I will now attempt to lie to you all". Also maybe don't obviously attack people's summons and try to intimidate the wizard who everyone likes in front of the whole party.

~

I'm assuming you mean half average gold for 5th level.
 

Cognisant

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Also maybe don't obviously attack people's summons
I didn't know it was a summon, I thought he was controlling it or something.
It surprised the hell out of me when it just disappeared :confused:

and try to intimidate the wizard who everyone likes in front of the whole party.
I thought the banter was funny but Rake has his pride and he didn't get a high intimidate skill by not using it, if anything it would have bend strange if he had just stood there and took it.

I'm assuming you mean half average gold for 5th level.
Yep.
 

Hadoblado

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Intrigue is organic. It's not built. If you leave space for it to grow, you'll be running along to Jim's mowing in no time to get that shit back under control. Never underestimate a player's willingness to grow their character.
 

Blarraun

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Rather than be deprived of team element I could secretly PM everyone to coordinate and locate each other within your world.

I'm telling you this because I don't really need GM's help (or restriction in this case) to introduce intrigue against other players, should I choose to. I'd rather start with them and band together, but oh well...

I'll have a character sheet ready by tomorrow.
 

Cognisant

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Fine whatever you all start together.
 

Cognisant

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So I've got stats for Jenny, equipment for Redbaron and "Zen archer" for Blarraun.

I'm going to need stats for everybody.
Either do it yourself or be content to wait until I get around to it.

I'm in no hurry.
 

Jennywocky

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Do I win since I'm the only one here? bwa ha haha! You lose, suckahs!
 

redbaron

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I sent you a whole character sheet with everything on Feb 2nd. I'll resend it.
 

BluePantsMcgee

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Is there place for one more?
 

redbaron

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Let him play GM, his name is BluePantsMcgee. It'd just be wrong to not let him play.
 

redbaron

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Coash put 'im in da game. He gon' do gud.
 

Cognisant

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Hey redbaron didn't you have an animal companion?

Thus far the party looks like:
Blarraun = Zen Archer (ranged specialist)
Redbaron = Inquisitor (ranged with a melee option)
Jennywocky = Dreamweaver witch (brains/manipulator)
 

BluePantsMcgee

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I'll be a Lotus protector (Magical defense) (shield and staff)

Are we following any dnd rules or anything or just make a char as you wish. As long as its not a power house.
 

Cognisant

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Pathfinder, any race, any class.
If it's a powerhouse I'll just conspire against you :)
 

Cognisant

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Storytime :D

In the last fifty years the nation of Cheliax has grown dramatically, gnomish engineering and infernal dealings have been combined to create massive foundries in which the flames are fed with screams of pain & fear while Iron golems work in the great strip mines. So basically it's the industrial revolution, except with black magic rather than coal, also there's guns now except the majority of Cheliaxian forces are level 1 gunslingers with better weapons & armor than their skills deserve.

These guns are enchanted to be "disloyal" to anyone but their assigned owner and even then only insofar as they're loyal to Cheliax. So to put it numerically if you're not a gunslinger you take -4 on attack roles due to lacking proficiency, a further -2 if it's not your gun and another -2 if you're not loyal to Cheliax. Of course you can get them disenchanted although you'll require the skills of a wizard who can craft magical weapons (since you're basically reforging it) except you're not allowed to practice magic in Cheliax without a license and anyone caught reforging guns gets sent to the foundry.

Few people know what happens in a foundry and they don't want to talk about it, the only clue is the screaming, it can last for days.

Viktor (Redbaron) hates the nation of Cheliax because he grew up under their discrimination, Janelle (Jennywocky) is a changeling so even if she tries to get a license they'll just kill her, you all know each other already as co-conspirators against Cheliax although whether you choose to avoid them, work for them or seek to join a resistance group is up to you.
 

Jennywocky

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I'll be a Lotus protector (Magical defense) (shield and staff)

Are we following any dnd rules or anything or just make a char as you wish. As long as its not a power house.
Cog's prior comments;

Level 5, 20pts for ability scores, two traits, any race, any class.

Post details in a PM to me, no need for sheet format.
Plus max HPs for level 1, 1/2 + 1 HP each level after (plus your CON bonuses).
 

Jennywocky

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PS. I'm probably creating a whole new character, for reasons I've stated to Cog in private and because the new setting of the campaign doesn't mesh well with my build/design anymore.
 

redbaron

irony based lifeform
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Hey, my backstory basically became THE story. Cool :D

Hey redbaron didn't you have an animal companion?
Oops yeah, I'll send you the stats for it today.
 

Jennywocky

guud languager
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... there's guns now except the majority of Cheliaxian forces are level 1 gunslingers with better weapons & armor than their skills deserve.

These guns are enchanted to be "disloyal" to anyone but their assigned owner and even then only insofar as they're loyal to Cheliax. So to put it numerically if you're not a gunslinger you take -4 on attack roles due to lacking proficiency, a further -2 if it's not your gun and another -2 if you're not loyal to Cheliax. Of course you can get them disenchanted although you'll require the skills of a wizard who can craft magical weapons (since you're basically reforging it) except you're not allowed to practice magic in Cheliax without a license and anyone caught reforging guns gets sent to the foundry.
Just curious, but this scans as "Cog doesn't want the PCs to use guns... unless of course they are gunslingers and already have guns."

Essentially, if you're not a gunslinger, you can waste a feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms) to rid yourself of the -4 penalty; but you're still at a -4 on the attack roll, which depending on BAB is probably a waste of time to bother with unless you're a full BAB class. And it sounds like they are not worth the trouble to bother with in general due to the risks involved in removing any other minuses since you already know the PCs are not loyal to Cheliax and that they are not our guns and what NPC magic user is going to want to risk his life to disenchant guns?

(It also seems like an awful lot of cost to equip such a large number of level 1 gunslingers with this level of magic on their guns as well, in that regime; you'd think they'd give the crappy guns to them and save the enchants for better weapons given to more powerful NPCs... but whatever.)

Anyway, it would be fun to roleplay where my character occasionally shoots a gun since they are prevalent in the setting even if I am not a gunslinger; but considering feats are at a premium for everyone except straight human fighters and I can probably be doing more damage with my own class skills, this just seems to be a case of, "I want you guys to be shot at with tons of guns but you won't be allowed to use any of them." Did I scan that right?

I'll send you stuff later today hopefully. I'm still trying to deal with feat scarcity and deciding what's a priority.
 

Cognisant

Prolific Member
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I'm not going to give away all my secrets to explain everything to you.

Suffice to say you'll meet a wizard and you'll want to use the guns but you won't want to carry them around, the game is going to be "technology is evil" themed.

Cheliax is basically industrial revolution Britain if the English were devil worshipers.

I recommend there be at least one person who can wield a gun effectively although it's not strictly necessary, with some of these things you just point them in the right direction and hold the trigger...

You're fighting mainly redcoat musketeers, they're mostly incompetent, they can't move and fire in the same round (well technically they can but there's practically no chance that they'll hit you) and they suck in melee. However if you stay in one place too long they'll get in formation and volley you, then it doesn't matter if their aim sucks because their bullets hurt like hell.

Then there's the professional (now veteran) military who were proficient killers before this gun business came along (redcoats are just poorly trained conscripts) and if you really cause trouble the hell knights show up, you don't want to fight them.
 

Jennywocky

guud languager
Local time
Yesterday, 20:19
Joined
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Charn
I'm not going to give away all my secrets to explain everything to you.

Suffice to say you'll meet a wizard and you'll want to use the guns but you won't want to carry them around, the game is going to be "technology is evil" themed.

Cheliax is basically industrial revolution Britain if the English were devil worshipers.

I recommend there be at least one person who can wield a gun effectively although it's not strictly necessary, with some of these things you just point them in the right direction and hold the trigger...

You're fighting mainly redcoat musketeers, they're mostly incompetent, they can't move and fire in the same round (well technically they can but there's practically no chance that they'll hit you) and they suck in melee. However if you stay in one place too long they'll get in formation and volley you, then it doesn't matter if their aim sucks because their bullets hurt like hell.

Then there's the professional (now veteran) military who were proficient killers before this gun business came along (redcoats are just poorly trained conscripts) and if you really cause trouble the hell knights show up, you don't want to fight them.
Okay. Just trying to get a feel for what to expect. Feat selection is such a bitch. :( *need more slots... arg!*
... oh for 1-3 more feats. The agony of ze feats. :(

Non-Zen Archer monks suck. I might see if I can make a better build using unarmed fighter w/ MOMS monk dip.

EDIT: WOO HOO! fighter dip gave me two extra feats. ;)
 
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