• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • See https://www.intpforum.com/threads/upgrade-at-10-am-gmt.27631/

The Many Faces of INFJ

IndigoSensor

Is Not A Sensor
Local time
Yesterday, 18:05
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
76
Location
Montana
Everybody and their mother is an INFJ now.
I think the forer effect is in effect with a lot of people here. Everyone has a "questioning phase" or two once they begin to look at the inner workings of MBTI; it's a bumpy road. MBTI is NOTRIOUS for having huge forer effects, which is where a lot of the errors come from.
 

dreamoftheunknown

Blackcloak
Local time
Yesterday, 20:05
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
130
Location
Somewhere around Mars...
Not sure if this will be relevant but I have recently been questioning my own type and it seems that INFJ is most likely what I am. I identify very strongly with Ti and not so much with Fe, which is why I think I test as INTP. It bothers me a little that so many people here have bad experiences with INFJs, which it seems comes from the INFJs having crappy Ti. Ti seems to constantly make you question yourself and your logic, so it would make sense that INFJs with weak Ti would be manipulative and misguided without realizing it. Which is not to say I have no flaws, I believe I can see in myself the bad traits of the INFJ (I just hope I'm not wrong about my type and then have my actions towards development proved pointless because I was wrong in my funcitons).

Although I know there is no direct evidence here proving I can use Ti well, perhaps it can be taken on faith (lol) and so provide some insubstantial anecdote regarding an INFJ who is not completely feeling oriented and manipulative, or failing all else perhaps it could bring some form of entertainment regarding yet another misguided INFJ.
That's why I was careful to specify "cobra." I didn't want to be mistaken for having a problem with INFJ's, in general. Actually, after reading the thread, I think you guys are awesome! Scary, but awesome! I'm almost (but not quite) envious - I wish I had the audacity to pull off that worldview. The worlds sucks? That's okay, we'll just change it. ;)
 

Razare

Well-Known Member
Local time
Yesterday, 20:05
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
634
Location
Michigan - By Lake Michigan
All this talk of Cobra and the Gypsy King makes me wonder if I could turn to the dark side for a while to have some fun.

:kinggrin:

I can't figure out a person in seconds, though, it usually takes 1 to 2 interactions. :slashnew: I practice it when I meet new people at work, and I kinda do it now without realizing it. Some reason, I like to know how everyone thinks. I'm just starting to realize it's probably because I don't readily trust people, and this is a great way of vetting them to see if they're trustworthy.
 

Adymus

Banned
Local time
Yesterday, 17:05
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
2,191
Location
Anaheim, CA
I think the forer effect is in effect with a lot of people here. Everyone has a "questioning phase" or two once they begin to look at the inner workings of MBTI; it's a bumpy road. MBTI is NOTRIOUS for having huge forer effects, which is where a lot of the errors come from.
Yeah, the biggest problem I have with type descriptions is that they are way too specific. Essentially describing a personality type as if they were describing a single person.
So for instance if you say: "INTPs don't like being in large crowds." you are going to 1.) deflect INTPs that do happen to like being in large crowds, and 2.) Attract other Non-INTPs who also happen to not like being in large crowds.
 

Sparrow

Banned
Local time
Yesterday, 20:05
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
838
Location
Galiyah
How does any INFJ develop their Se? From the moment I wake up, Se drains me. There's a weigh pressing down on my head and I just need to close my eyes because that's where I get my tunnel that bursts with insight and clarity of vision. I thought I was an INTP for so long because I thought social interaction drained me. It doesn't. It even energizes me at times. What drains me is the very act of being AWAKE. It deters me from socializing because when I converse...I have to keep my eye on the other person, I have to check that things are going well, I look for non-verbal cues. Anyways, I applaud any INFJs that are full of energy. I have 0 energy and I'm 17.
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today, 11:05
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,675
Location
Australia
How does any INFJ develop their Se? From the moment I wake up, Se drains me. There's a weigh pressing down on my head and I just need to close my eyes because that's where I get my tunnel that bursts with insight and clarity of vision. I thought I was an INTP for so long because I thought social interaction drained me. It doesn't. It even energizes me at times. What drains me is the very act of being AWAKE. It deters me from socializing because when I converse...I have to keep my eye on the other person, I have to check that things are going well, I look for non-verbal cues. Anyways, I applaud any INFJs that are full of energy. I have 0 energy and I'm 17.
o_O

Drink coffee.
 

mrpeters

Member
Local time
Today, 02:05
Joined
Jul 22, 2010
Messages
25
How does any INFJ develop their Se? From the moment I wake up, Se drains me. There's a weigh pressing down on my head and I just need to close my eyes because that's where I get my tunnel that bursts with insight and clarity of vision. I thought I was an INTP for so long because I thought social interaction drained me. It doesn't. It even energizes me at times. What drains me is the very act of being AWAKE. It deters me from socializing because when I converse...I have to keep my eye on the other person, I have to check that things are going well, I look for non-verbal cues. Anyways, I applaud any INFJs that are full of energy. I have 0 energy and I'm 17.
Hmm the world seems pretty hard on you. Im in the act of finding out what gives me energy and what spends it. What i have recognized is that when my energy is drained i get almost a tickeling feeling in my chest that just wont go away.

I don't know if this feeling is the same as you are experiencing but i will try to give you some advice anyway.

When you start to feel drained there is a good chance that what you are doing at that moment is draining you, you need to stop doing it and step back and energize yourself. It might seem as a no brainer but i for one thought that sitting in front of my computer and reading about interesting things gave me energy. It doesnt. I enjoy it very much but when i start to feel drained i take this as a sign that i need to close down and spend time alone to work trough the material i just read and let my mind just go with the thoughts.

What works best for me on rebuilding energy is solitary walks in the forest in the nightfall or sitting in a dark room and let my mind go free.
 

mrpeters

Member
Local time
Today, 02:05
Joined
Jul 22, 2010
Messages
25
Exercise helps with developing Se and providing more energy.
I think the energy level would stay the same but we would suffer less drainage from using Se the more we develop it.

Have you found any balance in how much exercise that is "optimal" for - preserving energy for other activities - vs - exercise to not get drained as quickly-?
 

Razare

Well-Known Member
Local time
Yesterday, 20:05
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
634
Location
Michigan - By Lake Michigan
I think the energy level would stay the same but we would suffer less drainage from using Se the more we develop it.

Have you found any balance in how much exercise that is "optimal" for - preserving energy for other activities - vs - exercise to not get drained as quickly-?
I see your point. Long bouts of exercise could be very draining to Se.

I never exercise long, maybe 30 minutes a day at most, some days just a 15 minute warm-up really. The exercise just keeps you healthy, which gives you more energy throughout the day. It's going to depend on the person and their fitness level, though. I'm not *very* fit :)

You can also just do something like swimming which can be both exercise and socialization.
 

BigApplePi

Banned
Local time
Yesterday, 20:05
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,988
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
Exercise helps with developing Se and providing more energy.
Exercise gets the juices flowing. Circulation goes everywhere and so improves function. Using muscles stimulates them and other organs so they gain more strength on recovery. Too much use wears them down. So there is a happy balance between use which strengthens and use which wears.
 

Yasmin

Member
Local time
Yesterday, 19:05
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
51
Location
In a Pineapple under the Sea
I have two very different experiences with INFJs.

The first is actually quite crazy. As in, when I was eleven, she told me that she was dying of a serious disease. She even started sobbing while she was telling me. She made the whole thing up. As of late, she's gotten into the habit of telling me what to do, and if I don't like the same things she does, I'm decidedly 'wrong' for it. She is probably the most dramatic individual I've ever met. Everything is a massive deal, and everyone is out to get her. I know I should feel bad for saying all this, but to be honest, I don't.

The other, I have known for only a few months, and seems, if not saner, at least a better type of crazy. The first time I met him, he was walking around with a roll of paper towels to write poetry on to give to people he just met. A bit strange, to say the least. Very, deep. Emotionally, I mean. I sort of think the only reason he likes me is that, as he says, I'm a complete mystery to him. I wonder how long it'll take him to realize that I am actually quite simple. He has this insatiable need to connect with everyone all the time. I find it pretty draining.
 

Puffy

Aquila
Local time
Today, 01:05
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
2,879
Location
Hanaqpacha
Found it quite funny reading it through again - I think 'cobra' is why I am so good at the board game Diplomacy.
 

cheese

Prolific Member
Local time
Today, 12:05
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
3,192
Location
internet/pubs
Puffy - you're INFJ?
 

Puffy

Aquila
Local time
Today, 01:05
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
2,879
Location
Hanaqpacha
Yeah - I suspected for a while, I have a friend who is much more knowledgable than myself in MBTI who said he felt I acted more an INFJ than an INTP. Adymus confirmed it for me yesterday.

Come across as a shock? ;)
 

Words

Only 1 1-F.
Local time
Today, 01:05
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
3,223
Location
Order
Come across as a shock? ;)
Considering the "look into christianity" reasoning you've replied to me from a near past, No. I'm not saying INTP = non-religion. Just that, there is a preference to look for a more RL connecting method for solution.
 

cheese

Prolific Member
Local time
Today, 12:05
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
3,192
Location
internet/pubs
Dunno, actually... I remember you had a sort of 'awww' vibe about you in your youtube videos (still up? I'd like to see if I can sense the INFJness) which I thought could be the typical INTP sweetness - or inferior Fe. Apparently not. One other person had that as well; can't remember his username though. He made a video about plants or something. Was it TheFrood? But I think he was typed as INTP by Adymus.
 

Puffy

Aquila
Local time
Today, 01:05
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
2,879
Location
Hanaqpacha
Well, I think have spent a lot of time hiding behind my Ti, which could give that impression. I'm quite good at acting, which I don't think I sometimes even do purposefully; just an unconscious defence mechanism of sorts. Obviously Fe wouldn't just not be there but I think it may be hidden behind the Ti? I don't know.

I may make a video for the youtube thread, to talk about some of the method acting stuff, because I find it quite interesting.

@Words - I agree RL connections are important, but I won't go into detail right now because I don't want to derail the thread.
 

Adymus

Banned
Local time
Yesterday, 17:05
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
2,191
Location
Anaheim, CA

Cavallier

Oh damn.
Local time
Yesterday, 17:05
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
3,674
^You'll have a plain old doppelganger like the rest of us and you'll be happy about it! :evil:
 

Auburn

Luftschloss Schöpfer
Local time
Yesterday, 17:05
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
2,300
Was it TheFrood? But I think he was typed as INTP by Adymus.
that might be me you're thinking about... >> (*starts rethinking things now, and wondering why adymus didn't agree*)

On the note of INFJs and religion.. ages ago I made a thread along the same lines. That's before I knew too much about MBTI, but maybe there is some correlation?

Doesn't it seem like INFJs are just naturally more prone to want to believe in something being "out there"? I suspect it to be the result of their dominant Ni...


Incidentally, here we touch basis upon the notion of the introverted perceiving faculty to anthropomorphize. For this reason ideas generated by these types appear flattering to men, as they seem to suggest to us that the greatest possible essences of the universe have much to do with our tastes and prejudices. No doubt, the greatest religions of the world are thoroughly imbued in personalities of their initial propounders. As the God of Christianity is much similar to Jesus, of Islam--Muhammad and respectively Moses for Judaism. There also could hardly be a doubt that many of the most influential prophets in those religions were INJs. More of them were more likely to be INFJs than INTJs because the Extroverted Feeling aspect strongly gravitates towards presenting their vision to the common folk and making it part of societal life in a very systematic fashion. But this is a note to be expounded on further in our next section on Extroverted Feeling.

Source: SolitaryWalker's INFJ Description
 

Adymus

Banned
Local time
Yesterday, 17:05
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
2,191
Location
Anaheim, CA
(*starts rethinking things now, and wondering why adymus didn't agree*)
I didn't disagree either, I just haven't given him enough attention to come to any conclusion.
 

Puffy

Aquila
Local time
Today, 01:05
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
2,879
Location
Hanaqpacha
@Auburn - It is an interesting analysis and I think I agree that INFJs are at least more prone to such, but my experience on this forum has taught me that even many INTPs are open to areas of spirituality - there are even Christian INTPs on the forum. I imagine we take different spins or operate as different pieces of the body - as Fullerene explained in his response to your thread - but unless we're going to declare all religious INTPs on this forum are in fact INFJs then we can hardly dismiss it as an entirely 'INFJ' thing. ;)
 

Bryson

INTposer
Local time
Yesterday, 22:05
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Messages
76
Location
Brazil
Great stuff man.
This made me remember a passage from the book Reminiscences of a Stock Operator, when Livingston (Jesse Livermore 's pseudonym) was persuaded to buy 250 bucks worth of books that had absolutely no use for him. The seller seems to fit the INFJ role perfectly.
Seems clear to me now that an ESTP would be no match for an INFJ.
The most interesting thing for me was the reason behind the guy's business.
Not money. Vanity!

If this got you curious enough take a look on the spoiler, the story is pretty fun (not small tough).May help you avoid this someday. Altough i doubt you will be immunized just by reading, since this is the type of person that will catch you off guard.

When I said to you some time ago that a speculator has a
host of enemies, many of whom successfully bore from within, I
had in mind my many mistakes. I have learned that a man may
possess an original mind and a lifelong habit of independent
thinking and withal be vulnerable to attacks by a persuasive
personality. I am fairly immune from the commoner speculative
ailments, such as greed and fear and hope. But being an ordinary
man I find I can err with great ease.
I ought to have been on my guard at this particular time
because not long before that I had had an experience that proved
how easily a man may be talked into doing something against his
judgment and even against his wishes. It happened in Harding's
office. I had a sort of private office -- a room that they let
me occupy by myself and nobody was supposed to get to me during
market hours without my consent. I didn't wish to be bothered
and, as I was trading on a very large scale and my account was
fairly profitable, I was pretty well guarded.
One day just after the market closed I heard somebody say,
"Good afternon, Mr. Livermore."
I turned and saw an utter stranger -- a chap of about
thirty or thirty-five. I could not understand how he'd got in,

but there he was. I concluded his business with me had passed
him. But I didn't say anything. I just looked at him and pretty
soon he said, "I caine to see you about that Walter Scott," and
he was off.
He was a book agent. Now, he was not particularly pleasing
of manner or skillful of speech. Neither was he especially
attractive to look at. But he certainly had personality. He
talked and I thought I listened. But I do not know what he said.
I don't think I ever knew, not even at the time. When he
finished his monologue he handed me first his fountain pen and
then a blank form, which I signed. It was a contract to take a
set of Scott's works for five hundred dollars.
The moment I signed I came to. But he had the contract safe
in his pocket. I did not want the books. I had no place for
them. They weren't of any use whatever to me. I had nobody to
give them to. Yet I had agreed to buy them for five hundred
dollars.
I am so accustomed to losing money that I never think first
of that phase of my mistakes. It is always the play itself, the
reason why. In the first place I wish to know my own limitations
and habits of thought. Another reason is that I do not wish to
make the same mistake a second time. A man can excuse his
mistakes only by capitalising them to his subsequent profit.
Well, having made a five-hundred dollar mistake but not yet
having localised the trouble, I just looked at the fellow to
size him up as a first step. I'll be hanged if he didn't
actually smile at me -- an understanding little smile! He seemed
to read my thoughts. I somehow knew that I did not have to
explain anything to him; he knew it without my telling him. So I
skipped the explanations and the preliminaries and asked him,
"How much commission will you get on that five hundred dollar
order?"
He promptly shook his head and said, "I can't do it!
Sorry!"
"How much do you get?" I persisted.
"A third. But I can't do it!" he said.
"A third of five hundred dollars is one hundred and sixty-
six dollars and sixty-six cents. I'll give you two hundred
dollars cash if you give me back that signed contract." And to
prove it I took the money out of my pocket.
"I told you I couldn't do it," he said.
"Do all your customers make the same offer to you?" I
asked.
"No," he answered.
"Then why were you so sure that I was going to make it?"

"It is what your type of sport would do. You are a first-
class loser and that makes you a first-class businessman. I am
much obliged to you, but I can't do it."
"Now tell me why you do not wish to make more than your
commission?"
"It isn't that, exactly," he said. "I am not working just
for the commission."
"What are you working for then?"
"For the commission and the record," he answered.
"What record?"
"Mine."
"What are you driving at?"
"Do you work for money alone?" he asked me.
"Yes," I said.
"No." And he shook his head. "No, you don't. You wouldn't
get enough fun out of it. You certainly do not work merely to
add a few more dollars to your bank account and you are not in
Wall Street because you like easy money. You get your fun some
other way. Well, same here."
I did not argue but asked him, "And how do you get your
fun?"
"Well," he confessed, "we've all got a weak spot."
"And what's yours?"
"Vanity," he said.
"Well," I told him, "you succeeded in getting me to sign
on. Now I want to sign off, and I am paying you two hundred
dollars for ten minutes' work. Isn't that enough for your pride
?"
"No," he answered. "You see, all the rest of the bunch have
been working Wall Street for months and failed to make expenses.
They said it was the fault of the goods and the territory. So
the office sent for me to prove that the fault was with their
salesmanship and not with the books or the place. They were
working on a 25 per cent commission. I was in Cleveland, where I
sold eighty-two sets in two weeks. I am here to sell a certain
number of sets not only to people who did not buy from the other
agents but to people they couldn't even get to see. That's why
they give me 33A per cent."
"I can't quite figure out how you sold me that set."
"Why," he said consolingly, "I sold J. P. Morgan a set."
"No, you didn't," I said.
He wasn't angry. He simply said, "Honest, I did!"
"A set of Walter Scott to J. P. Morgan, who not only has
some fine editions but probably the original manuscripts of some
of the novels as well?"

"Well, here's his John Hancock." And he promptly flashed on
me a contract signed by J. P. Morgan himself. It might not have
been Mr. Morgan's signature, but it did not occur to me to doubt
it at the time. Didn't he have mine in his pocket? All I felt
was curiosity. So I asked him, "How did you get past the
librarian?"
"I didn't see any librarian. I saw the Old Man himself. In
his office."
"That's too much!" I said. Everybody knew that it was much
harder to get into Mr. Morgan's private office empty handed than
into the White House with a parcel that ticked like an alarm
clock.
But he declared, "I did."
"But how did you get into his office?"
"How did I get into yours?" he retorted.
"I don't know. You tell me," I said.
"Well, the way I got into Morgan's office and the way I got
into yours are the same. I just talked to the fellow at the door
whose business it was not to let me in. And the way I got Morgan
to sign was the same way I got you to sign. You weren't signing
a contract for a set of books. You just took the fountain pen I
gave you and did what I asked you to do with it. No difference.
Same as you."
"And is that really Morgan's signature?" I asked him, about
three minutes late with my skepticism.
"Sure! He learned how to write his name when he was a boy."
"And that's all there's to it?"
"That's all," he answered. "I know exactly what I am doing.
That's all the secret there is. I am much obliged to you. Good
day, Mr. Livermore." And he started to go out.
"Hold on," I said. "I'm bound to have you make an even two
hundred dollars out of me." And I handed him thirty-five
dollars.
He shook his head. Then: "No," he said. "I can't do that.
But I can do this!" And he took the contract from his pocket,
tore it in two and gave me the pieces.
I counted two hundred dollars and held the money before
him, but he again shook his head.
"Isn't that what you meant?" I said.
"No."
"Then, why did you tear up the contract?"
"Because you did not whine, but took it as I would have
taken it myself had I been in your place."
"But I offered you the two hundred dollars of my own
accord," I said.

"I know; but money isn't everything."
Something in his voice made me say, "You're right; it
isn't. And now what do you really want me to do for you?"
"You're quick, aren't you?" he said. "Do you really want to
do something for me?"
"Yes," I told him, "I do. But whether I will or not depends
what it is you have in mind."
"Take me with you into Mr. Ed Harding's office and tell him
to let me talk to him three minutes by the clock. Then leave me
alone with him."
I shook my head and said, "He is a good friend of mine."
"He's fifty years old and a stock broker," said the book
agent.
That was perfectly true, so I took him into Ed's office. I
did not hear anything more from or about that book agent. But
one evening some weeks later when I was going uptown I ran
across him in a Sixth Avenue L train. He raised his hat very
politely and I nodded back. He came over and asked me, "How do
you do, Mr. Livermore? And how is Mr. Harding?"
"He's well. Why do you ask?" I felt he was holding back a
story.
"I sold him two thousand dollars' worth of books that day
you took me in to see him."
"He never said a word to me about it," I said.
"No; that kind doesn't talk about it."
"What kind doesn't talk?"
"The kind that never makes mistakes on account of its being
bad business to make them. That kind always knows what he wants
and nobody can tell him different. That is the kind that's
educating my children and keeps my wife in good humor. You did
me a good turn, Mr. Livermore. I expected it when I gave up the
two hundred dollars you were so anxious to present to me."
"And if Mr. Harding hadn't given you an order?"
"Oh, but I knew he would. I had found out what kind of man
he was. He was a cinch."
"Yes. But if he hadn't bought any books?" I persisted.
"I'd have come back to you and sold you something. Good
day, Mr. Livermore. I am going to see the mayor." And he got up
as we pulled up at Park Place.
"I hope you sell him ten sets," I said. His Honor was a
Tammany man.
"I'M' a Republican, too," he said, and went out, not
hastily, but leisurely, confident that the train would wait. And
it did.
 

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
Local time
Yesterday, 17:05
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
7,841
Location
California, USA
This thread isn't really justifiable, all of the types have different 'faces'.
Can you say 'biased'?
 

Glordag

Pensive Poster
Local time
Yesterday, 19:05
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
411
Location
Florida
This thread isn't really justifiable, all of the types have different 'faces'.
Can you say 'biased'?
EyeSeeCold, your posts make me happy. I have major issues with the original post, and then I noticed that seemingly everyone loved it. Then I saw your post :D.

This whole thing just seems off base to me. I accept and agree that cognitive functions will be developed in varying degrees amongst different people within the same type, but I don't think that it plays out as described here. I believe that, generally, the dominant functions are more influential on actions and outward personalities than this indicates.
 

loveofreason

echoes through time
Local time
Yesterday, 14:05
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
5,503
This thread isn't really justifiable, all of the types have different 'faces'.
Can you say 'biased'?
Observation, analysis and classification, require justification?

It's possible to observe and comment on the world without bias (aka. individual perspective)?

Presumably you have read this thread entirely without bias?

Offering an analysis of one type automatically implies other types are exempt?



What strange universe have I awoken in today? :confused:
 

Adymus

Banned
Local time
Yesterday, 17:05
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
2,191
Location
Anaheim, CA
This thread isn't really justifiable, all of the types have different 'faces'.
Can you say 'biased'?
What does that even mean? Why would I have to justify a thread? Of course all types have different faces, and within each type there are infinite variations, that is the point I am getting across. Can you say "One-dimentional?"
 

Adymus

Banned
Local time
Yesterday, 17:05
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
2,191
Location
Anaheim, CA
EyeSeeCold, your posts make me happy. I have major issues with the original post, and then I noticed that seemingly everyone loved it. Then I saw your post :D.

This whole thing just seems off base to me. I accept and agree that cognitive functions will be developed in varying degrees amongst different people within the same type, but I don't think that it plays out as described here. I believe that, generally, the dominant functions are more influential on actions and outward personalities than this indicates.
In what way did I indicate that these Faces of INFJ are not most influenced by their dominant function?
 

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
Local time
Yesterday, 17:05
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
7,841
Location
California, USA
What does that even mean? Why would I have to justify a thread? Of course all types have different faces, and within each type there are infinite variations, that is the point I am getting across. Can you say "One-dimentional?"
Maybe there was a hint of it, but for the most part, here, the INFJ is treated like some mystical god that has no definite shape.
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today, 11:05
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,675
Location
Australia
Maybe there was a hint of it, but for the most part, here, the INFJ is treated like some mystical god that has no definite shape.
Yet, the only thing you need to know is to stay away.

They are intrinsically evil. Some of them may think they are doing work for the benefit of everything but they are achieving the opposite. Try to stop them and they will stab you. Their righteousness must not be questioned.

They are a cancer on society that must be cut out.

Those strong of mind and not swayed by subjective terminology or empathetic language must do all that they can to stop them.
 

Adymus

Banned
Local time
Yesterday, 17:05
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
2,191
Location
Anaheim, CA
Maybe there was a hint of it, but for the most part, here, the INFJ is treated like some mystical god that has no definite shape.
So in other words you don't see the connections. They have a configuration just like everyone else does, but normal means of "typing people" does often do very little to peg INFJs as their personalities, as well as many other types personalities are far more versatile than the descriptions indicate.

So in summary, the INFJs do have a type, they have a cognitive function hierarchy. But they, as well as every other type have an infinite amount of ways that they can develop and make use of this cognitive function hierarchy. My premise is that the MBTI, socionics, and any other system that bases type on tests and descriptions is completely inadequate in accurately identifying one's type, and are too one dimensional to capture the essence of a type in a single description. It is not just the INFJs that are this versatile, all types potentially can be.
 

Puffy

Aquila
Local time
Today, 01:05
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
2,879
Location
Hanaqpacha
Yet, the only thing you need to know is to stay away.

They are intrinsically evil. Some of them may think they are doing work for the benefit of everything but they are achieving the opposite. Try to stop them and they will stab you. Their righteousness must not be questioned.

They are a cancer on society that must be cut out.

Those strong of mind and not swayed by subjective terminology or empathetic language must do all that they can to stop them.
:D - I'd like to think so, but I think it is more that they can be more driven to enforce their view of what is right. To themselves they don't have to be evil. I think the most INFJs we encounter online are going to be young, and frankly, immature.

@Eyeseecold - when it comes down to MBTI the only way I can see it working is if it goes beyond absolute descriptions but rather creates a framework one can see themself existing in. I don't believe the point of this thread was to say INFJs are shapeshifters and everyone else has an absolute personality description. I don't even think it was to say INFJs can come out in particular ways and stick to it. There are a few of the descriptions I don't identify with but many of them exist or have existed in my personality, they are almost tools of my personality in itself. I can see 'Cobra' in my defence/ manipulation mechancisms [often used in competitions, like board games lol] and I am sure one would not have to look through many of my posts to identify the Guru/ False Guru genre, depending on your preference. Even the 'destroyer of worlds' is a voice that exists and crops up in the lowest moments, Ni can create a vision of how things are that don't correlate with reality and for some it can quite easily lead to a destructive attitude. For myself it is a quirk I have had to tame with time.

For me this thread was as much to say that an INFJ does not have one 'face', they have many faces and they can confound and confuse themselves among them. If my suspicions are correct and s/he is an INFJ, one does not need to look through many of Lyra's posts to see the number of faces h/she can construct and 'believe' in. Adymus's system works for me because I could identify my type by it which others could see and confirm, and I can only guess this is why others have been intrigued or satisfied with his explanations.
 

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
Local time
Yesterday, 17:05
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
7,841
Location
California, USA
For me this thread was as much to say that an INFJ does not have one 'face', they have many faces and they can confound and confuse themselves among them.
Ok, this sounds much better.
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today, 11:05
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,675
Location
Australia
:D - I'd like to think so, but I think it is more that they can be more driven to enforce their view of what is right. To themselves they don't have to be evil. I think the most INFJs we encounter online are going to be young, and frankly, immature.
My comments were in relations to the ones I have met and interacted with outside of the net. They seem quite nice most of the time but they just leave me with a feeling that something is just not right. Often I feel horrible during and after the interactions. I seem to not like it when a person specifically chooses a behaviour to convey according to individual scenarios.

Most of them have some strange authoritarian belief system they wish to impose on others, hence, to attempt make society egalitarian by virtue. Egalitarianism limits the wealth that society can generate and this is to the detriment of the whole society. Not very nice at all!

Edit: The environmentalist infjs are just scary. They are homicidal.
 

Glordag

Pensive Poster
Local time
Yesterday, 19:05
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
411
Location
Florida
In what way did I indicate that these Faces of INFJ are not most influenced by their dominant function?
You didn't, and that's not the point I was making. Essentially, I feel as though you made these "faces" out to be much more than they actually are, that's all. To my eyes, while there are certainly differences between every INFJ, I don't think they are substantial in such a way as to group them into different blocks or persona as you have done here. Of course, this may just be a difference in how we perceive various personality traits.

It seems as though most that have replied in this thread agree with you in one fashion or another. As such, I wanted to express my surprise in reading the responses and indicate my difference of opinion. My reasoning for such is my feeling that the dominant functions play a stronger role in forming a more consistent INFJ personality. That said, I do think that there's some truth in what you've described here.
 

Bird

Banned
Local time
Today, 04:05
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
1,177
Wait --- so if I run for an hour daily as
well as do various other forms of
exercise, this is un-developing (there
has got to be a better word for this)
my Se? I mean, I know it's my weakest
function but can this really be why?
 

Puffy

Aquila
Local time
Today, 01:05
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
2,879
Location
Hanaqpacha
Meh, running is what I do ;) Cooking seems to help in some strange way as well. It gives me a buzz for some reason.
 

Bird

Banned
Local time
Today, 04:05
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
1,177
What about baking? I do a lot
of baking.
 

Adymus

Banned
Local time
Yesterday, 17:05
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
2,191
Location
Anaheim, CA
Wait --- so if I run for an hour daily as
well as do various other forms of
exercise, this is un-developing (there
has got to be a better word for this)
my Se? I mean, I know it's my weakest
function but can this really be why?
Did someone in here stupid up my thread? Because I don't remember making this claim.

Bird, it is not possible to "Un-develop" a function, exercise and healty exposure to your Se can only do you good.
 

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
Local time
Yesterday, 17:05
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
7,841
Location
California, USA
Perhaps you can help me grasp something, OP. If you're still around anyway. I read this thread several times over the months and it's really straightened out a lot of misconceptions I picked up about the way our minds work. The first time I took the type quiz, I finished with an INFJ score, but J was really weak, something like 1, and with the exception of intuition, my other values weren't very high either. Between ten and twenty roughly. Jungian psychoanalysis makes up a fraction of my studies, and I'm actually here the expense of other work.

Unlike most people, I've actually done tremendous work on my personality in almost every way possible. I am not clear what my actual values of introversion and extroversion are meant to be, partly because I don't grasp the finer details of how one function works versus another. I just notice that some behaviors exhaust me while others energize me. I can see myself more than half of the type descriptions, but only two or three come without effort. With your help, I'd like to lay this to rest so I can better know myself, and do it for keeps. This will be longer because I want no room for error.

My trouble stems mostly from the fact that I had a severely fucked up transition into adolescence and my childhood wasn't much better. I was on a ton of psychotropic medications for six solid years, from the age of 9 until 15. I seriously didn't need to be on any of them, and they collapsed my cognitive faculties into a singularity. There was a litany of trauma I dissociated from, and after kicking the last drug I ended up in a quasi-fascist institution for people with autism disorder for the remainder of high school. It was like 1984, Brave New World, and 24-hours of Nickelodeon all rolled into seven hours of purgatory, but I rest my case. The retard school was nothing compared to those six years in hell. I've never spoken to a therapist about any of this because the ones I had growing up were all operating under the wrongful assumption that I was autistic, not PTSD. It took everything I had to keep it together after the drugs were gone and the soulless behavior modification agenda began.

The short version is that between all the drugs and the relentless turmoil, I developed in an extremely atypical manner. I've also lost sight of myself inside and out. I may care about changing the world and avenging the downtrodden NOW, but as a child I hardly cared about any of that. It wasn't until my life fell apart and I had to struggle for anything resembling functional consciousness. I've got it now, mostly, but I still don't know who I am. There are functions I've been gravely pushed to develop for survival's sake, and others are underdeveloped. It's in the last year only that I've put the pieces back together.

Here's what I've noticed in retrospect: My intuition is extremely powerful, but I have no control over it. I see things in people, mostly ugly things. I'm never wrong when it comes to those feelings, especially when I want to be. I can see people's demons, and I also predicted my father's sudden death a few years before it happened. I have no understanding of it, but I've learned to trust the feeling implicitly, which is why I score higher on Intuition, even though I have always generally as a sensory person.

I am also an introvert, but only because in my experience aggregating my personality within a group dilutes and distorts it, and because other people are dangerous influences who are not to be trusted with their own well-being, let alone mine. I like people, and I even feel energized by certain interactions, but not others. The size of the group has no effect on this, only the nature of the interaction.

Feeling is a function I have cultivated intensely, do overcome years of stigma and to deal with my own demons. Thinking is something I enjoy much more, because it's liberating and untainted by the insanity of Feeling. Same goes for Judgement. My judgements, but only the intuitive ones, have been correct. Acting on my feeling, even founded on intuition, has only ever led me to disaster. God, has feeling-judgment led me to some terrible places!

I've never seen much use for Sensing, even though I use it regularly. Basic senses are deceptively simple, and often wrongfully represent reality. It's easy enough, but I've left it underdeveloped because it just confuses me when attempting to make good decisions. Like feeling, it's just not practical on its own.

Most of my life has been spent in a Perceptive mode. The few times I choose to act never seem to make anything better, but I'm caught between heeding my intuition (which becomes confused with feeling if I'm not careful), and trusting my experience, which convolutes everything with doubt because nothing ever works in my experience, except for the "Cassandra Gnosis" I get in flashes sometimes. Any time something works out, I chalk it up to luck. Nothing ever works a second time for me, except unadulterated intuition. I'm so sick of P, because I know I need to act and it drives me insane to see things fall apart around me, but using J is extremely risky because I can't rely on either my intuition (because it's unreliable), or my senses (because it's inaccurate).

I love information, especially science and new, cutting-edge never-been-heard-before theories on reality which are gradually being proven (all of them!) to be true in the mainstream. The one place I have reliable applied my intuition is in putting together the most accurate depiction of the world and the universe/multiverse it sits in of anybody I've ever known. I have no talent for mathematics, although mostly I blame a lackluster education over any ineptitude on my part. My capacity to correlate abstract data is almost a superpower. I just have very little use for it, unless I decided to be a writer. I want to, and I used to enjoy it a lot. I'm good at it, but I've just lost all desire to do anything with it. I'm probably depressed, which is unsurprising. I'd like nothing better than to succeed at something and earn lasting prosperity. I just can't find a way to exploit my abilities without running into a massive block. Gaining any insight into these functions, particularly the machinations of introversion/extroversion.

Despite all the work I've done, I am still a colossal mess and I'm running out of time to get my shit together. I need to know how I can function efficiently, without energy loss, so I can accomplish my goals now. There's a lot of subtle things I understand acutely, I don't have the insight to put the pieces together anymore. Not on this, it's too esoteric. My brain don't work this way. I've gotten used to the motions of an introverted-intuitive-feeling-percipient, but it's not me. I hate all of it. I am not a dreamer, I am a doer and I've lost my way. I pray you can bring order to my chaos in even the smallest capacity, when and if you find this.
If you're looking for a label to cure all your worries and problems, I think you're in the wrong place.
 

Masterlord

Banned
Local time
Yesterday, 20:05
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
89
Dear Syrus,

1) Go to www.podlair.com

2) Submit a video

3) Beg them to help you.

Honestly, how are they supposed to help you? If they tell you that you're X Mojo and X Mojo are fucked up and it's okay to be fucked up - but special, will that make you feel better? You're the only one that can help yourself. There can be no panacea to your problems if you just wait for others to help you.
 

Syrus Magistus

Magister Templi
Local time
Yesterday, 17:05
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
2
Location
Los Angeles
Heh, looks like I rescinded a little too late. Yeah, I figured it was a silly idea to begin with. I didn't even make it clear what I was asking for. The label isn't what I'm interested in. It's the configuration of the functions. I'm putting myself together from scratch here, so it'd be nice to have a model. You'll forgive the clumsiness of my words.

I've examined the site in question. I may or may not decide to involve myself. I'll be fine eventually, seriously. I just want a better understanding of myself after wasting a lifetime in suffering and in unconsciousness. If I can determine exactly what functions I'm dealing with and in what form, I can save a colossal amount of time and energy working. Forget it though. I should know better than to expect an easy answer.
 

Artsu Tharaz

Resident Resident
Local time
Today, 12:05
Joined
Dec 12, 2010
Messages
3,000
If you want advice from people, make a thread for it elsewhere.
 

Syrus Magistus

Magister Templi
Local time
Yesterday, 17:05
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
2
Location
Los Angeles
I never asked for advice. A basic analysis by the OP was what I requested and rescinded. That not one of you had any idea what I meant to begin with is proof enough of the folly in my asking. I didn't intend for just anybody to answer me. Perhaps my failing is not explaining exactly what I wanted in a faction of the words. Brevity and angst are like oil and vinegar.
 

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
Local time
Yesterday, 17:05
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
7,841
Location
California, USA
I never asked for advice. A basic analysis by the OP was what I requested and rescinded. That not one of you had any idea what I meant to begin with is proof enough of the folly in my asking. I didn't intend for just anybody to answer me. It is only my failing for not explaining exactly what I wanted in a faction of the words. Brevity and angst are like oil and vinegar.
A cognitive order is still a label.


I know what you're looking for. The thing is, in the end, it's what was obvious all long. Nothing that an outside observer couldn't tell you.

If you think Adymus / Pod'Lair may still be able to help, go for it. But I just think you need:
  • A partner(partner, like a good friend)
  • A therapist / psychologist
  • To release your internalized thoughts / experiences / emotions
  • A productive hobby(hiking, biking, exercising etc)
 

kibou

Member
Local time
Yesterday, 20:05
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
93
Well anyway, in regard to the INFJ Se dilemma (@Puffy and @Bird)...I definitely feel that getting in touch with my Se through physical activities or accomplilshments have been so helpful. Biking, yoga, cooking, baking, definitely...I think exercise and diet are particularly important because a lot of us have pretty horrible sleep schedules from the amount that our mind seems to activate its Ni anywhere, but especially in sensory deprivation (ie when we're in bed trying to sleep). We almost have to use our bodies more than other people do in modern living circumstances so we can allow our swim around.

I find one trick in regard to using Se is finding some way to make the Se activity meaningful. Maybe some kind of NF value to feed it, or see how it socially appeals (we are Fe users after all, even if the spotlight can be tiring, if we can successfully take the spotlight as one of our adventures it can be pretty rewarding), find some way to make it "deep". It's so tempting to think of Se as shallow, but really, as Ni-Se users we really need Se, we aren't NPs or SJs after all. But if we can see how deep it can be to live in the moment, or experience super-literalness, the chocolateness of chocolate, the fun in being sexy and hunting for some action, whatever, then maybe we can tolerate it, at least enough, to balance our super-intense Ni.
 

INFJmale

Redshirt
Local time
Today, 01:05
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
1
Stunning. I am absolutely blown away by this insightful and frighteningly accurate multifaceted portrayal of my type. There is so much insight here that I don't have time to comment on all of it.

As for myself, I would say that I am predominantly the Academic (I am a physics major enrolling in medical school in the Fall) followed by the Method Actor: but in truth there is some of each of these types in me, as in every INFJ. Many people often mistake me for an INTJ, but the truth is I'm INFJ to the core - my vision is always people-centric despite also having an interest in the scientific and the philosophical.

What you said about The Academic running Ti in real time as we speak is dead on. I have always felt that my need to speak in a perfectly coherent, grammatically precise, and concise manner is the one thing holding me back from being able to fully control the people around me. Sure, I am already exceptionally good at manipulating people in subtle ways that I can honestly say they have no awareness of; however, if I were able to let go of this Ti constraint upon my speech then I would be able to charm people to such an extraordinary degree that managing a cult, or getting in bed with practically whatever woman I wanted, would not seem very difficult. As it is, I can charm people, but a more accurate description for my current capacities along this line would be "influencing people outside their level of immediate awareness." My ex-girlfriend (in addition to considering me psychic, something I don't believe in for a second - she eventually gave up altogether in trying to lie to me) once told me that she could not feel when I was controlling her as it was happening, but that upon reflection weeks or months later (when the full context of my manipulations became clear) she could see the degree to which I had forced her behavior and attitudes in certain directions.

I'm currently in the process of getting an attractive girl to fall for me. I would say that the INFJ's ability to control such a wide variety of people comes from our capacity to see every individual personality with such a startling accuracy, and this versatile capacity allows us to titrate and direct our manipulations differently for every person. The most effective method is to use peoples' insecurities as road maps for your machinations. There is nothing more obvious to an INFJ than the insecurities of the people he's inspecting. Within five seconds of watching someone speak, I see an accurate picture of their most intimate social insecurities.

The girl I'm currently working on is considerably attractive and is sought after by nearly every man she knows. One's motives have a direct, intimate relationship to one's insecurities: for a simplified example, if a man is in business school and has an obvious desire to accumulate wealth, I know that this is tied to a material insecurity. In fact, I would go so far as to say that our insecurity is the single most important factor directing our behavior. This particular girl is insecure about her sex appeal (being attractive is not enough to soothe this sort of insecurity; she must constantly assure herself that men are enthralled with her, more so than the "next girl"). Thus, my approach in manipulating her into liking me is to be the one guy in the world who does not seem to stare at her as she walks by.

Last night, she and I and another girl and several other guys were at a bar. The other guys were generally trying all night to get her attention: tickling her, smiling at her, trying to chat her up, etc. This is typical, and it plays directly into her image of herself as a "man trap": it was enough to make her happy, soothing her insecurity, but in terms of making her attracted to the guys, it was as pitiful as swinging a sword at a fly.

I, on the other hand, paid a little attention to her, but most of the time just stared off, watched the TV, or whatever. I talked to the other girl some, but my target is socially adept enough to know that talking to the other girl might be an attempt at making her (the target) jealous.

My target rapidly began struggling for my attention. When she would say something flirty to me, I would continue (e.g.) looking at the TV for a second, then acknowledge her by turning to her and looking straight into her eyes and, with a subtle smile, respond to whatever she'd said. If she said something flirty, I would generally respond in a non-flirty tone.

The other guys started to get angry by how much she seemed to be striving for my approval. I saw each wondering, "What the fuck did he do to get that? He hardly even talked to her all night." At one point, she moved into my line of sight and started to lift up her shirt, exposing her stomach to me. Most guys would stare and wet their lips in an attempt to communicate to her "Yes, I am confirming that I do want that from you." I gave it a slow glance and then looked away and started to type on my phone.

It is important to not deny her all of the time: she will tire and eventually give up in frustration. It is critical to give her some approval some of the time, enough to make her attraction on a steady upward slope, but without crossing the threshold of giving her the ego climax she wants from you. Make it last until you can give her a real climax, and take yours too.

For anyone who wants to take advice regarding girls from this short monologue, understand that you must cater your approach to the insecurities of the particular girls; obviously, not all girls are like my target. If you want to develop a real relationship with the girl, eventually you must reach the point where you stop solely manipulating her based on her insecurities (of course, we all manipulate each other some of the time, so it will never completely end.) But you will quickly find that you lack genuine feelings toward her if you are engaged solely in control.

There is a general misconception of INFJs (especially on type forums) as gentle, overly-caring, emotional cases. The truth is, I am quite emotional on the inside, but I can control this tendency in public. INFJs who come onto forums to talk about other INFJs seem to be the type who are socially undeveloped or see themselves as social victims and want to hear other people talk about how gentle and sad they are (= ego stroke). Many INFJs, however, are selfish: since we grew up unable to open up to people and were especially hurt when we were rejected for our childhood shyness, we develop some anti-social traits. This is what leads us to manipulate people, a sort of social revenge via control, and our uncanny ability to read people makes this mostly easy. The only thing that holds us back from literally being so charming as to be able to take over the world is our inability to speak freely and think of what to say rapidly. I have always thought that if you could take an INFJ and keep his frighteningly good Ni ability to read people but give him an equally strong Fe, then he would be able to take over the world (a bit extreme but you understand). If I could trade some of the strength of my Ti and put it into an even stronger Fe (as well as bolster the Se a bit to fine tune the perfect facial microexpressions, vocal intonations, and physical mannerisms), I would be almost unstoppable. I would be able to say the perfect word at the perfect moment with the perfect amount of detail, humor, and metaphorical imagery, flavor it with the perfect amount of emotion backed with the perfect facial microexpressions, and wrap it all up into one generously powerful moment. The charm would be irresistible to anyone who was not aware of con artistry; the gullible would be swayed by the flick of my finger.

Well, have I stroked my own ego to climax enough in all of your faces? I certainly hope I have. I hope you liked that image.

I was a bit surprised to see an INTP read so precisely into what it is to be an INFJ. For anyone who is doubting the veracity of Adymus' analysis, put your doubts up your ass. This is a more accurate analysis than you will find elsewhere online (to my awareness). The sort of INFJ who goes online and posts about what it is to be INFJ is the type of social victim case who wants to cry about how understanding and deep he/she is. Yes, we are understanding, and we are intensely deep, but we are not always angels. Sure, some of us are. In truth, I do care about helping people: I'm not going into medicine solely for the respect and attention. The question is, how much is my tendency to care about people just another product of my self-deceiving insecurities - a way of getting myself to feel good about myself?
 

Bird

Banned
Local time
Today, 04:05
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
1,177
Actually, the description is various places online.
 
Top Bottom