Thinking about Photon.

[s0cratus]

Thinking about Photon.
1
When photon moves at light of speed
( about 299 792 458 m/s .c=1) then photon itself shrinks into
a flat geometrical figure ( light - photon doesn't shrink outside
distance, road or spacetime )
Conclusion:
According to SRT photon is not a firm particle,
it can change its geometrical form.
2
When photon moves at light of speed ( about 299 792 458 m/s. c=1 )
its own time is zero ( infinite )
Question:
Where does the ours known time come from?
3
Gravity can change the straight movement of photon,
Question:
Where does the gravity come from?
4
In which reference frame photon moves, if gravity
( as Sun and many others outside gravity objects )
can change photon's movement ?
===...

 

[BigApplePi]

Thinking about Photon.
1
When photon moves at light of speed
( about 299 792 458 m/s .c=1) then photon itself shrinks into
a flat geometrical figure ( light - photon doesn't shrink outside
distance, road or spacetime )
Conclusion:
According to SRT photon is not a firm particle,
it can change its geometrical form.
2
When photon moves at light of speed ( about 299 792 458 m/s. c=1 )
its own time is zero ( infinite )
Question:
Where does the ours known time come from?
3
Gravity can change the straight movement of photon,
Question:
Where does the gravity come from?
4
In which reference frame photon moves, if gravity
( as Sun and many others outside gravity objects )
can change photon's movement ?
===...

Good questions. Perhaps a clue can be had by inquiring into the nature of space itself. I believe I saw somewhere that after the big bang, space itself expanded faster than the speed of light. Haven't checked that out. If so, the behavior of light and gravity occur within space.

I'm not ready to say the photon it flat. After all isn't it going to change when we detect it?

Gravity? Isn't that an illusion that is really the bending of space? When we have the present of matter, it does things to space. Space reacts to it and we call this "gravity."

 

[s0cratus]

1
Moon, Sun and many others gravity objects exist in a vacuum
2
One postulate of SRT says that the speed of photon
in the vacuum ( !!! ) is constant c=1.
3
Then on the one hand, as a peasant, I think that photon must move
in the vacuum, but on the other hand physicists talk me the photon
moves in the negative 4D Minkowski space = spacetime.
And nobody explain me what spacetime really is.
Then it seems to me that I find myself in a church or synagogue.
And I never could understand the priest or rabbi even
they are scientists with PhD in their pockets.
=.

 

[s0cratus]

In which reference frame the photon exist?
Nobody gives answer and therefore someone wrote:
' If you try to search for 'reference frame ' for the photon
'emission & re-emission', you will find only some
'Quantum-Mechanics' Mumbo jumbo and very little else.'
My answer.
When the quantum of light moves with the constant speed c=1
the time for him is ‘frozen’ - stopped. Time doesn’t exist for him.
In the other words, he has eternal time.
It means that the reference frame where the quantum of light moves
also must be eternal, absolute.
====..
iss

 

[Cognisant]

I have no idea what's going on but I'll add this: The Answer is Pi!

Why? Because it's geometric, and irrational.
To assume Pi isn't in some way essential to the nature of the universe is to assume the universe is entirely mathematically rational, but if it was then how could Pi exist? The thing is I can't simulate a perfect circle or sphere, it just can't be done, it has to be rendered somehow and in the process of rendering it gets fucked up, and yet (theoretically) a perfect sphere could exist in real space, indeed the electron shells of atoms are perfect spheres aren't they?

So if real space is in fact real and we're not living in the matrix with the wool pulled over our eyes then the universe couldn't be entirely mathematically reducible, like Pi I reckon there's an infinite regress, no matter how much processing power we throw at it we'll only be able to approximate the answer, never entirely know it.

 

[s0cratus]

I have no idea what's going on but I'll add this: The Answer is Pi!

Why? Because it's geometric, and irrational.
To assume Pi isn't in some way essential to the nature of the universe
is to assume the universe is entirely mathematically rational,
but if it was then how could Pi exist?
The thing is I can't simulate a perfect circle or sphere, it just can't be done,
it has to be rendered somehow and in the process of rendering it gets
fucked up, and yet (theoretically) a perfect sphere could exist in real space,
indeed the electron shells of atoms are perfect spheres aren't they?

So if real space is in fact real and we're not living in the matrix with
the wool pulled over our eyes then the universe couldn't be entirely
mathematically reducible, like Pi I reckon there's an infinite regress,
no matter how much processing power we throw at it we'll only be able
to approximate the answer, never entirely know it.

. . . . . how could Pi exist?
/ Cognisant /

Pi can exist really only when this ‘ Pi ‘ belongs
to a dynamic circle – quantum particle.
Can quantum particle have geometric form of circle ?
Why not ?
Now the quantum particle can be ‘point’ and ‘sphere’ , and in string theory
the particle is a dynamic string - particle which can ‘’ have different
geometric forms: String can be both closed and open.
A closed string is a loop.
An open string is a line; it has ends’’.
/ Book : ‘ The trouble with Physics’. Page 106.By Lee Smolin /
So, why not dynamic circle – quantum particle ?
===…

 

[Brontosaurie]

Photon sounds like a name when you use it in singular


for this you have my eternal respect

 

[s0cratus]

Photon sounds like a name when you use it in singular


for this you have my eternal respect

The History of Existence was written by Quantum of Light.
====…

 

[s0cratus]

Photon- Electron self identity problems.
The energy of x-ray photon is E=h*f
The energy of radio photon is E=h*f
The energy of electron is E=h*f
What is difference between quantum particles ?
The frequency makes difference.
#
Dualism of quantum particle depends on its behavior, on its impulse ( h or h* ).
====.

 

[Hawkeye]

1. Photons have zero dimension in the direction of motion . The best way to think of a photon is as a mathematical point. For example:

Lets say we are in a vacuum and have a powerful laser pointing at a wall that is 186,000 miles away. To us it would take the light about 1 second to reach the wall. To a photon however, it would exit the laser and reach the wall simultaneously. The distance has been compressed to zero.


It's interesting because it means that if anyone could travel at the speed of light, the journey would be instantaneous for them. It would also mean that travelling to Proxima Centauri would only cause 4.26 years of standard time to pass (instead of years and years travelling at something like 0.96c).

2. Time is the rate of change that has to exist on order for anything to happen. You could think of time in a zero gravitational field as the standard flow of time. Time is inversely proportional to mass. As the mass of an object increases, the slower time flows locally around that object relative to the standard flow. However, the passage of time experienced is the same for every frame of reference below the speed of light.

3. I see gravity as a by-product of mass because all objects that have a mass create a gravitational field that is directly proportional to their mass.

4. Photons do not move according to their frame of reference. The universe to them is compressed to a mathematical point.

Photons are not directly affected by gravity as they have no mass, rather it is space and time that are warped by gravitational fields which cause the straight path of a photon to bend.

 

[s0cratus]

1. Photons have zero dimension in the direction of motion . The best way to think of a photon is as a mathematical point. For example:

Lets say we are in a vacuum and have a powerful laser pointing at a wall that is 186,000 miles away. To us it would take the light about 1 second to reach the wall. To a photon however, it would exit the laser and reach the wall simultaneously. The distance has been compressed to zero.


It's interesting because it means that if anyone could travel at the speed of light, the journey would be instantaneous for them. It would also mean that travelling to Proxima Centauri would only cause 4.26 years of standard time to pass (instead of years and years travelling at something like 0.96c).

2. Time is the rate of change that has to exist on order for anything to happen. You could think of time in a zero gravitational field as the standard flow of time. Time is inversely proportional to mass. As the mass of an object increases, the slower time flows locally around that object relative to the standard flow. However, the passage of time experienced is the same for every frame of reference below the speed of light.

3. I see gravity as a by-product of mass because all objects that have a mass create a gravitational field that is directly proportional to their mass.

4. Photons do not move according to their frame of reference. The universe to them is compressed to a mathematical point.

Photons are not directly affected by gravity as they have no mass, rather it is space and time that are warped by gravitational fields which cause the straight path of a photon to bend.

1 Photon and Polarization
When light travels in free space, in most cases it propagates
as a transverse wave— the polarization is perpendicular
to the wave's direction of travel.
In this case, the electric field may be oriented
in a single direction (linear polarization),
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarization_(waves)
Photon can have a single direction (linear polarization),
But ….. traveling with constant speed c=1 photon have no time.
2
Universe with “ a zero gravitational field “ - without mass
is flat and has no time and therefore
“ the standard flow of time “ is an abstraction –fantasy.
3.
Of course gravity without mass doesn’t exist.
4.
Photon can move in different reference frames
( free, open, closed , 4D, 5D, 11D, MD . . . . ) and
have different energy in each of them.

===…

 

[BigApplePi]

Guys. Some of these things bother me.

1. Photons have zero dimension in the direction of motion . The best way to think of a photon is as a mathematical point.

Don't I recall recent experiments light moves more slowly depending on the medium? So take away the medium and we have a vacuum. But space is not a perfect vacuum. Wouldn't that mean light (photons) move slightly more slowly than the theoretical max? In other words, a photon might approach zero dimensions, but that's not the same as actually being zero. How can anything actually be zero? Zero means it's not there!

4. Photons do not move according to their frame of reference. The universe to them is compressed to a mathematical point.

Photons are not directly affected by gravity as they have no mass, rather it is space and time that are warped by gravitational fields which cause the straight path of a photon to bend.

I'm ready to gamble a photon approaches a mathematical point, but never gets there due to the existence of some mass in the universe. Also if a photon has energy, wouldn't it have some mass due to e=mc²?

 

[Hawkeye]

s0cratus... is there any particular reason why you apply font and colour tags to EVERY SINGLE LINE of your posts? It makes quoting you more trouble than it's worth.

If photons do not experience time, they do not travel a distance (basic physics).

My point about the standard flow of time was to explain that like the speed of light is constant in every frame of reference, so is the passage of time; 1 second = 1 second to you whether you are travelling at 40mph, or 400,000,000mph.

 

[Hawkeye]

This might be of interest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksTngIWRnWs

 

[BigApplePi]

Interesting possibility to look at.

 

[s0cratus]

s0cratus... is there any particular reason why you apply font and colour tags to EVERY SINGLE LINE of your posts? It makes quoting you more trouble than it's worth.

If photons do not experience time, they do not travel a distance (basic physics).

My point about the standard flow of time was to explain that like
the speed of light is constant in every frame of reference,
so is the passage of time;
1 second = 1 second to you whether you are travelling at 40mph,
or 400,000,000mph.

Your “ the standard flow of time “ is an abstraction.
Your abstraction is going ( begin) from Einstein’s opinion.
To create SRT Einstein needed time and then (according to d=vt, t=d/v )
he took distance ( d) and divided on constant speed of quantum
of light (c) and has negative time. Later Minkowski took this negative
time as a positive 4D- dimension and gave math-geometrical interpretation.
In the beginning many physicists said that it is impossible to 1 second
be equal to 1 centimeter or 1 meter. As you wrote: “1 second = 1 second
to you whether you are travelling at 40mph, or 400,000,000mph.”
But this abstraction somehow was adopted.
Again, in the other words:
Photon moves from point A to the point B .
There is direction (linear polarization) but photon in this direction
has no duration (!) of this process of movement from point A to the point B.
The duration of process is zero (0) , or “1 second = 1 second to you whether
you are travelling at 40mph, or 400,000,000mph.”
Is it possible?
The QED says that in interaction with matter photon/ electron
has duration of process.
=====…

 

[s0cratus]

SRT and Quantum of Light.
=.
" Einstein's theory of special relativity followed a series of perplexing experiments . . .
. . . . . . . . . .
Einstein showed that drastically revising the basic concepts of space and time
led to a consistent description of all these perplexing experiments . . . . ."
/ Book: Andrei Sakharov. Quarks and the structure of matter.
By Harry J. Lipkin. page 65.
Copyright 2013 by World Scientific Publishing /

In the others words, according to Einstein
because the space and time different from Newtonian
is possible the phenomenons of SRT.

I give another interpretation:
the phenomenons of SRT are possible because behavior
of quantum of light allow them be appeared.
The behavior of quantum of light is the cause of SRT's phenomenons.
===..
" Einstein's special theory of relativity is based on two postulates:
One is the relativity of motion, and the second is the constancy
and universality of the speed of light.
Could the first postulate be true and the other false?
If that was not possible, Einstein would not have had to make two
postulates. But I don't think many people realized until recently
that you could have a consistent theory in which you changed only
the second postulate."
/ Lee Smolin, The Trouble With Physics, p. 226. /

It means that speed of light is a constant but not an absolute constant.
The speed of quantum of light is independent ( doesn't depend on outside forces )
Quantum of light can itself change its speed ( by own impulse / spin )
Therefore SRT is theory about behavior of quantum of light
====...

 

[Hawkeye]

SRT and Quantum of Light.
=.
" Einstein's theory of special relativity followed a series of perplexing experiments . . .
. . . . . . . . . .
Einstein showed that drastically revising the basic concepts of space and time
led to a consistent description of all these perplexing experiments . . . . ."
/ Book: Andrei Sakharov. Quarks and the structure of matter.
By Harry J. Lipkin. page 65.
Copyright 2013 by World Scientific Publishing /

In the others words, according to Einstein
because the space and time different from Newtonian
is possible the phenomenons of SRT.

I give another interpretation:
the phenomenons of SRT are possible because behavior
of quantum of light allow them be appeared.
The behavior of quantum of light is the cause of SRT's phenomenons.
===..
" Einstein's special theory of relativity is based on two postulates:
One is the relativity of motion, and the second is the constancy
and universality of the speed of light.
Could the first postulate be true and the other false?
If that was not possible, Einstein would not have had to make two
postulates. But I don't think many people realized until recently
that you could have a consistent theory in which you changed only
the second postulate."
/ Lee Smolin, The Trouble With Physics, p. 226. /

It means that speed of light is a constant but not an absolute constant.
The speed of quantum of light is independent ( doesn't depend on outside forces )
Quantum of light can itself change its speed ( by own impulse / spin )
Therefore SRT is theory about behavior of quantum of light
====...

c represents the maximum speed limit. Light can and does travel slower than this, but never exceeds it.

 

[s0cratus]

On September 21, 1908 Hermann Minkowski began his talk at
the 80th Assembly of German Natural Scientists and Physicians
with the now famous introduction:
" The views of space and time which I wish to lay before you have sprung
from the soil of experimental physics, and therein lies their strength.
They are radical. Henceforth space by itself, and time by itself,
are doomed to fade away into mere shadows,
and only a kind of union of the two will preserve an independent reality."
Since then the question of the ontological status of this union of space and time
has become the subject of a continued debate.
.........
http://www.spacetimesociety.org/minkowski.html
==.

 

[Hawkeye]

The two postulates of special relativity are bound together.

1. - The laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames of reference.
2. - The speed of light c is the same in all inertial frames of reference.

Removing the second postulate creates a flaw as it would mean that certain moving objects could transmit data faster than light violating the principles of causality.

1 second = 1 second in every frame of reference can only occur if the c is constant in every reference frame. So far, this theory seems pretty solid.

 

[s0cratus]

The two postulates of special relativity are bound together.

1. - The laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames of reference.
2. - The speed of light c is the same in all inertial frames of reference.

1. -
It is correct that:
The laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames of reference.
2. -
It is correct that:
The speed of light c is the same in all inertial frames of reference.
3.
It is also correct that such formulation have nothing to do with the essence of SRT.
Why?
All inertial frames of reference ( Earth and another planets of solar system and galaxies )
have gravity-mass. And SRT is theory without gravity-mass.
( About gravity Einstein wrote GRT in 1915)
All inertial frames of reference ( Earth and another planets of solar system and galaxies )
have very low speed and therefore enough to use only Galileo transformation
to explain that the laws of physics are the same in all inertial
frames of reference. But the basis of SRT are Lorentz transformations.

The name of SRT was : “ On the Electrodynamics of moving Bodies.”
Not about Earth and another planets of solar system and galaxies the theory
was talking, but about micro particles like light quanta.
The essence of SRT is explanation the behaviour of light quanta.
==================...
socratus

 

[s0cratus]

Maxwell needed a mechanical model to understand interaction between
electro and magnetic fields. Later this mechanical model was thrown out.
Einstein needed different inertial reference frames, clocks, observers, trains, .. . etc
to understand the relations between space and time. All these different inertial
reference frames, clocks, observers, trains, .. . are secondary factors.
They are ‘ garbage for building blocks '
If we throw them out, then we have Lee Smolin's trouble:
" Einstein's special theory of relativity is based on two postulates:
One is the relativity of motion, and the second is the constancy
and universality of the speed of light.
Could the first postulate be true and the other false?
If that was not possible, Einstein would not have had to make two
postulates. But I don't think many people realized until recently
that you could have a consistent theory in which you changed only
the second postulate."
/ Lee Smolin, The Trouble With Physics, p. 226. /
===.

 

[s0cratus]

Inertia and Energy.
=.
Newtonian conception of *inertia* says nothing about energy.
The idea * Inertia & Energy * was solved by Einstein.
In 1905 Einstein wrote paper:
“ Does the inertia of a body depend upon its energy content?”
As he realized the answer was:
“ Yes, the inertia depends on its energy E= Mc^2.”
It means, that the inertia (constant speed of photon) depends on E=Mc^2.
===…
Israel Socratus