# Vegan excuse. Gopher Redbaron derail

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#### The Gopher

##### President
Are you saying it's the farmers responsibility to feed all humans? If the farmer instead want to use the land to feed wildlife, shouldn't they be free to do so?

Maybe the farmer likes wild animals better then vegetables?
No. The farmer can do whatever he wants. He is free to like wild animals. That's completely irrelevant. Of course the starving people are free to kill the farmer but hey also irrelevant.

"Is it sociopath to think that one could solve the meat production problem with producing food less efficiently."

This is what I am making fun of. The hilariously short sighted solution of doing things worse to make things better.

There a reason you go into pretty much every thread that I have a discussion/debate in and come at me with this kind of passive-aggressive shit?

Except it's not.
How on earth is it not? If it wasn't people wouldn't do it. (I mean cheaper to eat meat not food in general)

Oh don't play victim. It's not passive-aggressive there's no hostility don't pretend it's anything more than making fun of the absurd socially manipulative/one sided construction of your posts. This is the first time in ages (but I have a short memory so...) and if it makes you feel better I don't specifically target you or anyone. (although maybe subconsciously I thought you have hope/could take it better. Alternatively you may just happen to post socially manipulative one sided posts more often.)

#### redbaron

##### irony based lifeform
The Gopher said:
How on earth is it not? If it wasn't people wouldn't do it.
Are you fucking kidding me?

People are inefficient with their money all the fucking time and no, it's not at all cheaper to eat meat compared to alternatives. You can make vegetarian meals, with plenty of nutrition for about $4-5 a meal. You can pay anywhere from$20-50/kilo for cuts of meat, and to get the same value nutrition from a meal you're going to be adding vegetables and other things on top of that.

Meat is one of the most expensive grocery items on a shopping list. People eat it because they like it.

You ask why they would do it if it's more expensive? People eat sugar, smoke, drink alcohol, go see movies when they can download them and do all sorts of things where there's plenty of cheaper alternatives.

People do it because it's convenient and they like to do it - not because it's economical. Fast food isn't economical, but it's huge in Australia. It's more expensive than home-cooked meals, and yet certain families go and get fast food night after night.
The Gopher said:
How on earth is it not? If it wasn't people wouldn't do it.
Damn dude, just fucking LOL. Can't believe that's your argument.

The Gopher said:
Oh don't play victim. It's not passive-aggressive there's no hostility don't pretend it's anything more than making fun of the absurd socially manipulative/one sided construction of your posts. This is the first time in ages (but I have a short memory so...) and if it makes you feel better I don't specifically target you or anyone. (although maybe subconsciously I thought you have hope/could take it better. Alternatively you may just happen to post socially manipulative one sided posts more often.)
The irony being that this is a manipulative post on your part. Maybe that's deliberate, can't really tell when you're so sickeningly smarmy all the time.

"Oh don't play victim."

The fuck? I'm not a victim, you're being a manipulative twat, sayingpersonal shit about people and hiding it behind a guise of, "Oh HEHE gUys I WaS juST joKing xDDD no HOStiLity here!!" Smarmy little fuck. Everything I've said to 420MuNkEy is based on things he's said himself in the thread. I'm not just making up bullshit to make fun of things he says.

Just as bad as Sinny going ahead and wishing death on people but burying it under 5,000 words of exposition so no one notices how low she sinks - but meanwhile let's ban 420MuNkEy for calling people idiots - we can't have that kind of awful herd behaviour guys!!!!

#### The Gopher

##### President
Re: What is your excuse for not being vegan?

Are you fucking kidding me?

People are inefficient with their money all the fucking time and no, it's not at all cheaper to eat meat compared to alternatives. You can make vegetarian meals, with plenty of nutrition for about $4-5 a meal. You can pay anywhere from$20-50/kilo for cuts of meat, and to get the same value nutrition from a meal you're going to be adding vegetables and other things on top of that.

Meat is one of the most expensive grocery items on a shopping list. People eat it because they like it.

You ask why they would do it if it's more expensive? People eat sugar, smoke, drink alcohol, go see movies when they can download them and do all sorts of things where there's plenty of cheaper alternatives.

People do it because it's convenient and they like to do it - not because it's economical. Fast food isn't economical, but it's huge in Australia. It's more expensive than home-cooked meals, and yet certain families go and get fast food night after night.
Damn dude, just fucking LOL. Can't believe that's your argument.
How on earth is it not? If it wasn't people wouldn't do it. (I mean cheaper to eat meat not food in general)
(I mean cheaper to eat meat not food in general)
(I MEAN CHEAPER TO EAT MEAT NOT FOOD IN GENERAL)
Seriously... I was talking specifically about it's cheaper to produce meat this way and changing it could have unwanted effects. Obviously my argument wasn't that the poor child would end up without food/people would suicide without meat it's an exaggeration used to point out that simple solutions often require simple understanding. What should be done is a complete analysis on what would be affected by this if it's better or not. Not oh this solves all problems because I want it to. However explaining that seemed pointless at the time and probably still is. That said technically convenience is cheaper if it allows you to work longer. You can save maybe two hours of time or more depending on location and meal which allows for two hours more work.

Also making meat more expensive would end up denying it from people who do want to eat it. Sure there are cheaper alternatives but that's not the point. It's basically saying you can't eat this because of my opinions, you now aren't rich enough. Which is fair when said about a Lamborghini.

The irony being that this is a manipulative post on your part. Maybe it's deliberate, can't really tell when you're so sickeningly smarmy all the time.

"Oh don't play victim."

The fuck? I'm not a victim, you're being a manipulative twat, saying REALLY personal shit about people and hiding it behind a guise of, "Oh HEHE gUys I WaS juST joKing xDDD no HOStiLity here!!" Smarmy little fuck.

Just as bad as Sinny going ahead and wishing death on people but burying it under 5,000 words of exposition so no one notices how low she fucking sinks - but meanwhile let's ban 420MuNkEy for calling people idiots - we can't have that kind of awful behaviour guys!!!!

No it's not a manipulative post on my part if it was intended to be manipulative then nobody would have noticed because I wouldn't even have posted it. I said personal shit? Really? Because I'm not aware of any personal shit REALLY or otherwise. What in the fuck could actually be personal in that post. I do know personal shit about you. I know personal shit about nearly everybody. I know enough personal shit to bury a continent but I DON'T. FUCKING. DO IT. I in fact SPECIFICALLY AVOID MENTIONING PERSONAL SHIT. I go so far out the FUCKING way to avoid it that it seems I'm the only one on this FUCKING FORUM THAT CAN ACTUALLY MANAGE IT. God dam people. I spend half my time covering up other peoples personal shit that people can't keep personal.

I've even covered for you on several occasions when you couldn't keep ********** ***** *** ***** a secret.

Literally the most important rule in my life I am actually pissed off right now. This is what it looks like when I'm hostile. Not some bullshit passive aggressive nonsense.

When's the last time I actually mentioned something personal? I mean seriously in all my interactions when have I ever done it? Surely somebody must know? I'm obviously telling everybody. Did I ever talk to you on IRC about personal things of other people? On skype? Obviously it's in my secret lair of people that I just drag up to talk to about personal stuff because they've got nothing better to do that listen to a bunch of REALLY personal stories of people they don't care about. (the only one with time to do that seems to be me)

"Oh oh but you're manipulative" No that's the fucking joke. I'm just manipulative enough to know when someone is trying to manipulate me to get personal info but apart from that I'm a social retard who is only successful socially due to being a nice person people can talk to about their troubles. That and occasionally a joke hits but you would expect it to with the amount of attempts I make. My entire social worth requires me to sit there saying nothing while people talk to me so they feel better.

Hey I may be a manipulative twat in your eyes, I may even be leaking personal shit like a broken faucet but there was nothing hostile in that post and more importantly as far as I can tell nothing personal. I understand if you don't believe me but this is real. This is straight up word diarrhea of someone who is fed up with being slandered.

I mean we are still friends right? and I mean that not in a manipulative "aww he wants to be friends he must be a good guy" I mean are we just calling each other out on perceived bullshit or do you actually hate me?

No I'm not joking you can take this post seriously. (Well apart from the one liner/first part of the post above Lamborghini)

(On a side note I wasn't entirely for the Munk ban either but if that's what the mods want to ban it's up to them)

#### The Gopher

##### President
Re: What is your excuse for not being vegan?

Dat victim card doe

Jokes aside, I have a hard time believing it but if it's indeed true then apologies.
Yeah sorry for over-blowing it. It's not the first time this week and it gets frustrating constantly correcting misinterpretation. Which to be fair was kinda my fault because who I am and who I may have projected I was in the past are two different people. Which is strange because you didn't take issue with me when I was pretending to be interesting but you are now when I'm "Not completely on your side".

That said, who on the forum mentions personal shit in threads? I've seen it maybe 2-3 times from people who're now banned anyway. It's not like it's an achievement that you don't mention personal shit.
Well if it's not an achievement that I don't talk about personal shit that's fine. However you blatantly said I talked about personal shit so if nobody talks about personal shit why blame me for something nobody does. People who can't keep secrets are one of my biggest pet peeves which is why it annoys me to be accused of it.

Also, this is a bit curious:

Did you ever talk to me about personal stuff? No, because we don't talk. Keeping secrets from people you never speak to isn't hard.

Considering that as mentioned we don't talk - then I guess someone else has told you things about me. Although that's pretty weird because the list of people on the forum who know anything about me is pretty damn short, my contact with them is pretty infrequent and I haven't really told many of them all that much. It's only really the ones I've met IRL.

Which blatantly confirms that you do talk about personal things with other people. So this quote:
We used to talk. For about half a year in IRC many years in the Chatbox on the forum and in a few skype DnD groups. No, people talk about personal things with me, at that point if they know about it and obviously think it's fine to talk about I feel it's fine to continue the conversation like a normal person. That said I think at LEAST 70% of the personal stuff I know comes from you directly and the other 20-25% or so probably is just random noise (reading context) that I pick up. Only 5-10% would be people being discreet directly so to speak and the only people that could be here would be the people you tell personal shit to. (Oh and that one time someone did leak personal shit about you and got banned but I knew about that before anyway because I WAS THERE when you mentioned it.)

Which blatantly confirms that you do talk about personal things with other people. So this quote:

Doesn't seem to be that far from the truth. Overblown in that there's obviously no secret lair, but you're talking to people about sensitive personal stuff. I guess you're not necessarily at fault for that, if other people just can't keep their mouths shut. My fault for misjudging people's character I guess.

Still it seems a little convenient that you just know so many secrets about so many people. If it's such a burden why don't you just tell them to stop telling you all that stuff?
If my secret lair is people you trust and already shared the knowledge with then oooh scary. Now the reason people talk to me is because the ones that do know I can keep the secrets so they probably don't consider it an issue telling me. (or assume I already know/make a mistake in conversation) Take that as your misjudge of character if you will however at this point it seems to be human nature and like I said your own disability to keep others secrets would be a prime source of information. Although in your defense it's not malice as far as I can tell just incompetence.

I wouldn't know so much if people didn't trust me, that should be obvious. If I only talked to untrustworthy people nobody would talk to them and I would know nothing. It's like a social logic puzzle.

It's not a burden, It's not a burden at all that's the thing that frustrates me. If it's so easy to keep your mouth shut why don't people do it? I don't mind being talked to, I like knowing stuff, however I don't do anything with it apart from understand context better in my own personal world of what I understand.

#### cheese

##### Prolific Member
Re: What is your excuse for not being vegan?

mot malice
*mot nalice

#### Sinny91

##### Banned
Just as bad as Sinny going ahead and wishing death on people but burying it under 5,000 words of exposition so no one notices how low she sinks - but meanwhile let's ban 420MuNkEy for calling people idiots - we can't have that kind of awful herd behaviour guys!!!!
Do you ever stop exaggerating?

You need to learn to let go of some things.

Dog with a fuckin bone.

If I remember correctly that which you are referring to, I informed you that you filled me greatly with disdain, then you turned around and said "Why don't you just tell me to go kill myself", at which point I ignored you, as I make an effort to do quite often.

Drop it.

#### TheManBeyond

##### Banned
Internet made this battles filled with dramma between unknown people possible
One minute of silence in honour of progress
:')

#### higs

##### Omg wow imo
wow
much anger
So dramatic words on the screen
Such fear and bravery
Important truths

#### The Gopher

##### President
Ya know if I didn't know better I would think Higs was trying to stir up drama in dead threads...

#### higs

##### Omg wow imo

Come at me bitchez

#### ProxyAmenRa

##### Here to bring back the love!
I came to this thread because of TheGopher. It was so goood. Aww yisss.

"Oh oh but you're manipulative" No that's the fucking joke. I'm just manipulative enough to know when someone is trying to manipulate me to get personal info but apart from that I'm a social retard who is only successful socially due to being a nice person people can talk to about their troubles. That and occasionally a joke hits but you would expect it to with the amount of attempts I make. My entire social worth requires me to sit there saying nothing while people talk to me so they feel better.
Wait a second... My experience with you led me to think you liked to sit quietly and be all passive.

#### onesteptwostep

##### Think.. Be... ..buzz buzz :)
D'awww 2 Aussies going at it. Winner receives a kangaroo!

#### ProxyAmenRa

##### Here to bring back the love!
D'awww 2 Aussies going at it. Winner receives a kangaroo!
We fight to the death around there parts.

But reallllyyyy! But Honnnneessstly!! Someone has got to put a stop to this shit. I am going to point fingers and name names. I am going to take everyone down with me.

TheGopher is a good guy. He likes to listen. If you just so happen to talk about personal issues or secrets, he will gladly listen, take notes and you will be forever haunted. You just HADDDD to tell him your secrets.

#### The Gopher

##### President
Wait a second... My experience with you led me to think you liked to sit quietly and be all passive.
Yeah of course I do I was just being self depreciating so that RB wouldn't be able to come up with a response without looking like he was kicking a baby. JOKING that wasn't my intent at the time... Although looking back that would be a good strategy.

Basically I was actually trying to say I'm the passive one in conversation so it's not like I would get much opportunity to share secrets anyway. Gather information sure, share them no.

We fight to the death around there parts.

But reallllyyyy! But Honnnneessstly!! Someone has got to put a stop to this shit. I am going to point fingers and name names. I am going to take everyone down with me.

TheGopher is a good guy. He likes to listen. If you just so happen to talk about personal issues or secrets, he will gladly listen, take notes and you will be forever haunted. You just HADDDD to tell him your secrets.
To be fair I don't take notes I just have a fairly decent memory when it comes to remembering things about people I'm interested in.

#### ProxyAmenRa

##### Here to bring back the love!
Yeah of course I do I was just being self depreciating so that RB wouldn't be able to come up with a response without looking like he was kicking a baby. JOKING that wasn't my intent at the time... Although looking back that would be a good strategy.

Basically I was actually trying to say I'm the passive one in conversation so it's not like I would get much opportunity to share secrets anyway. Gather information sure, share them no.

To be fair I don't take notes I just have a fairly decent memory when it comes to remembering things about people I'm interested in.

Awww

Don't worry, can still be friends.

#### The Gopher

##### President
Awww

Don't worry, can still be friends.
Yay! I'll have to visit you sometime in that general location you live which you've already shared publicly. We can reminisce about the times we *************** and ************ with ********** and *************. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW PEOPLE!

#### ProxyAmenRa

##### Here to bring back the love!
Yay! I'll have to visit you sometime in that general location you live which you've already shared publicly. We can reminisce about the times we *************** and ************ with ********** and *************. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW PEOPLE!
Sure, you can crash at my apartment if you like.

#### The Gopher

##### President
Sure, you can crash at my apartment if you like.
Yeah? For how long! *starts up a spreadsheet of all my friends in your location to work out just how long I can stay at each place before annoying people* DUUUUUUUUUN! "Coming this winter, one man tries to find work in a new town, before his friends get sick of him and kick him out. Join this epic adventure that lasts... four days."

#### Blarraun

##### straightedgy
Does anyone understand what retaliation means? Or are your egos too big to let by one comment too much.

Just to be clear, the next person to antagonise and restart this conflict between redbaron, Gopher, Bronto, CC, Sinny, Grayman and whoever else involved gets a 2 month long ban.

For any baiters out there who see a 2 month ban as an opportunity to mess the other party up, for your efforts you will be excluded from the community if we find out about it.

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