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Virtual reality

Minuend

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I got a VR headset for Christmas and I've been saved. This is the future. Today you're getting home from work and sit on your pc. The future is putting on your VR headset to work, or getting home and putting it on. VR wil be as common as sitting on your laptop. VR wil be what sitting on your pc and internet is today.

If you do not own a VR headset and can afford one, you're missing out
 

Rebis

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I got a VR headset for Christmas and I've been saved. This is the future. Today you're getting home from work and sit on your pc. The future is putting on your VR headset to work, or getting home and putting it on. VR wil be as common as sitting on your laptop. VR wil be what sitting on your pc and internet is today.

If you do not own a VR headset and can afford one, you're missing out
I've used them, I get motion sickness from them. Plus it's disorientating because it takes ages for me not to be aware of the real environment.

I'd much prefer Augmented Reality through glasses such as google glass.
 

Minuend

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Motion sickness is normal initially. It's worth it to get used to it, though.
 

peoplesuck

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The future will probably have glasses that you can still see out of, able to project and allow you to interact with the projections. I think minuend is right.

If you could eliminate physical tools and supplies and just have them all be VR, it would save resources.
This is probably a dumb question, but if we neglect our vision by always looking at things that are close, could that affect future generations biologically?
 

Rebis

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The future will probably have glasses that you can still see out of, able to project and allow you to interact with the projections. I think minuend is right.
It sure will, but there's still a lot of problems with VR at the moment. Mainly the graphics: Like playing a game for example you're in the entire game environment, where as AR is a few objects layered on top of the real environment. I can play games without photo-realistic graphics using buttons, but movement of the arms in a virtual reality and knowing it doesn't sync up as I expected is a bit offputting, though obviously this will be calibrated in the future.

Iterations of the google glass would appeal to me: 3D models of objects I can view in my room, open tabs and stuff like that, without using a keyboard peripheral and hopefully eye-cues. That stuff really appeals to me.

Motion sickness is normal initially. It's worth it to get used to it, though.
Yeah I see that, I just think the full immersion is hard for me. Like I'm always aware of the world beyond the dimensions of the TV and VR headsets take like 99% of that away. You do need decent room for some games, I think that was a main problem for my lack of immersion.
 

Rebis

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The future will probably have glasses that you can still see out of, able to project and allow you to interact with the projections. I think minuend is right.

If you could eliminate physical tools and supplies and just have them all be VR, it would save resources.
This is probably a dumb question, but if we neglect our vision by always looking at things that are close, could that affect future generations biologically?
Certainly, blue light contributes to macular degeneration, I've kept my monitor on permanent blue-light mode for years. I bought an amazon fire yesterday instead of a kindle even though that's the functionality I wanted. Anyways, The basic version was £69.99, paperwhite 119.99 and oasis 229.99. I would have to pay for the OASIS model just to get a blue-light filter which would let me read during night (I'm looking to integrate reading into my pre-sleep routine.) CRIMINAL OFF AMAZON, paying £150 extra just to get a blue-light feature.
 

Minuend

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It's not just about immersion, though, it's just the superior format. Being in Vr, having your internet tabs in front of you, having your chosen background, having your chosen avatar and easy access to VR chat or other social medium. Like, I have the fjord right outside my home, amazing view for my pc space. But having my VR with mountains behind my internet tabs etc, it's something else, it's better, it feels better. Yes, it sounds crazy, I should feel more satisfied from having real awesome nature outside, but VR feels better, it feels more like home. It feels more natural.
 

peoplesuck

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The future will probably have glasses that you can still see out of, able to project and allow you to interact with the projections. I think minuend is right.

If you could eliminate physical tools and supplies and just have them all be VR, it would save resources.
This is probably a dumb question, but if we neglect our vision by always looking at things that are close, could that affect future generations biologically?
Certainly, blue light contributes to macular degeneration, I've kept my monitor on permanent blue-light mode for years. I bought an amazon fire yesterday instead of a kindle even though that's the functionality I wanted. Anyways, The basic version was £69.99, paperwhite 119.99 and oasis 229.99. I would have to pay for the OASIS model just to get a blue-light filter which would let me read during night (I'm looking to integrate reading into my pre-sleep routine.) CRIMINAL OFF AMAZON, paying £150 extra just to get a blue-light feature.
The paper white is what I had, It had nearly zero light, exactly like reading off paper. Highly recommend it.
I want to start doing norwegian diary entries before bed.
Make it happen captn
 

Rebis

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Well my experience with VR is limited, but I haven't found any photo-realistic environments in VR. So if I could see mountains with photo-realism and were infact 3D in the VR space it would definitely feel natural to me.

I think it's just jarring for my whole peripheral to be A) Not photo-realistic and B) 3D-modelling of photo-realism. With AR I know the tabs in the view are supposed to be between 2D and 3D, while the background itself is authentic, there will be no dissonance moving through the space in a physical world because my body operates exactly as I expect it to. That damn limbic-eye co-ordination
 

Rebis

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The future will probably have glasses that you can still see out of, able to project and allow you to interact with the projections. I think minuend is right.

If you could eliminate physical tools and supplies and just have them all be VR, it would save resources.
This is probably a dumb question, but if we neglect our vision by always looking at things that are close, could that affect future generations biologically?
Certainly, blue light contributes to macular degeneration, I've kept my monitor on permanent blue-light mode for years. I bought an amazon fire yesterday instead of a kindle even though that's the functionality I wanted. Anyways, The basic version was £69.99, paperwhite 119.99 and oasis 229.99. I would have to pay for the OASIS model just to get a blue-light filter which would let me read during night (I'm looking to integrate reading into my pre-sleep routine.) CRIMINAL OFF AMAZON, paying £150 extra just to get a blue-light feature.
The paper white is what I had, It had nearly zero light, exactly like reading off paper. Highly recommend it.
I want to start doing norwegian diary entries before bed.
Make it happen captn
Did you read during night? That's the pivotal point for me. I really like blue-light filters.
 

peoplesuck

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Rebis it uses ink, exactly like a book. It comes with a backlight, but the best way is to read it like a book, with the backlight off and another light source illuminating it.
look up E ink technology, its lit bruh
 

Rebis

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Yeah I know about E-ink technology, but now I just seen you can get a blue-light filter for the kindle.

It's time like these I wish I wasn't so autistic.
 

Rebis

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This rabbithole is particularly long.
 

peoplesuck

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nah, if you like reading physical books, get the e ink, if you like pc get the other ones.
sImPlIcIty
 

Cognisant

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I've used them, I get motion sickness from them.


Why do we need to go to an office to do work on a computer when we all have computers at home? It's insane that we have these cities where every day millions of people gather to do work only to go home again in the evening and if your daily commute takes an hour that's two hours five days a week that you're just losing.

If people really must be in an "office environment" to work effectively why not make it a virtual office? Through VR you can have people sitting at virtual desks and having meetings in virtual rooms where they can write on virtual whiteboards and inspect 3D model prototypes of whatever product their making.
 

peoplesuck

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Whenever we achieve neural interfacing VR, I wonder how people will react, or if we ever will achieve that.
If we did, how would it be used
would anyone try that?
 

sushi

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its perhaps use for human resources training or education, like the virtual classroom
 

Rebis

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I've used them, I get motion sickness from them.


Why do we need to go to an office to do work on a computer when we all have computers at home? It's insane that we have these cities where every day millions of people gather to do work only to go home again in the evening and if your daily commute takes an hour that's two hours five days a week that you're just losing.

If people really must be in an "office environment" to work effectively why not make it a virtual office? Through VR you can have people sitting at virtual desks and having meetings in virtual rooms where they can write on virtual whiteboards and inspect 3D model prototypes of whatever product their making.
Again I think photorealism and calibrating response time is the only thing holding it back. There's a reason the business elites haven't used a simulation like sims or club penguin as a serious office meeting.
 

Rebis

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Kinda scares me VR, the matrix has stuck with me since I was a child. I hope I don't live through the generation where most activities are done in virtual reality. I'mma pick the red pill morpheus.
 

Cognisant

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Again I think photorealism and calibrating response time is the only thing holding it back. There's a reason the business elites haven't used a simulation like sims or club penguin as a serious office meeting.
I don't think it's photorealism so much that you can't do a VR teleconference with someone if they don't have their own VR gear whereas these days laptops with webcams are ubiquitous. At least at my workplace every meeting room has a full teleconferencing setup, except Apple compatibility because fuck supporting that nonsense.

I heard lots of drug deals happened through club penguin.
 

Daddy

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It's pretty cool, but it's a little annoying that you have to take them off to see around you. AR would probably be more practical with that. And some headsets aren't very comfortable. It can also be a little straining on the eyes. Pancake doesn't require having to refocus your eyes for far and near.

The games are usually kind of shit unfortunately, either cell phone style games or shitty AAA ports with some A games sprinkled in here and there. I played Subnautica with one and it was awesome, but there are lots of bugs the devs refuse to fix. Half-Life Alyx will probably be good, but it's like the only real AAA VR game. If someone could do a good AAA mmo with VR, like a space minecraft meets Elite Dangerous, that'd be pretty damn cool.
 

Rebis

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It's pretty cool, but it's a little annoying that you have to take them off to see around you. AR would probably be more practical with that. And some headsets aren't very comfortable. It can also be a little straining on the eyes. Pancake doesn't require having to refocus your eyes for far and near.

The games are usually kind of shit unfortunately, either cell phone style games or shitty AAA ports with some A games sprinkled in here and there. I played Subnautica with one and it was awesome, but there are lots of bugs the devs refuse to fix. Half-Life Alyx will probably be good, but it's like the only real AAA VR game. If someone could do a good AAA mmo with VR, like a space minecraft meets Elite Dangerous, that'd be pretty damn cool.
Half-Life alyx would be a game changer and a possible platform seller, would be cool if it was as big budgeted as Half-life 2 was back in 2002/2003.
 

Firehazard159

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Photorealism is very doable in VR, and has been done in several cases. Just Valves environments alone are believably realistic, from the home-zones to The Lab demo (where you stand on the mountain and play with your robot dog :)), and there's an app where someone did 3D photocapture and inserted them in "game" (more like an art gallery.) Photorealism isn't holding VR back, it's just expensive to do well.

As far as MMO's go, OrbusVR is pretty solid, but it's definitely indie, and closer to a runescape-meets-wow than anything.

Elite Dangerous in VR is phenomenal.

Also, there's no reason why there couldn't be device-asynchronous communication between a VR person and a webcam person. It's really just software support. Of course, the VR person would be represented as an avatar, and the webcam person could be handled multiple ways - either via an "in VR" flat-display, or it could translate them into a VR avatar itself.

I don't know what you @Rebis means by calibrating or response times.

@peoplesuck: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuralink might interest you - elon musk is pretty much trying to build out something like what you're asking about. His particular application is more about directly interfacing with a computer, not having the whole display rendered mentally, but I imagine that technology will evolve from something like neuralink.
 

Kuu

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Yesss, another one joins the metaverse!

The future will probably have glasses that you can still see out of, able to project and allow you to interact with the projections.
The future? This already exists. I've tried it. It's not cheap for mass market yet and needs more polish to be easier to use. Still mindblowing tho.

if we neglect our vision by always looking at things that are close, could that affect future generations biologically?
In future generations there will be no biology!

Seriously though, in VR headsets you're looking through a lens that has a focal point set about 1.5-2 meters which is at minimum 3 times further away than the arms-length distance of a computer display ubiquitously used today. So at least it won't be worse than what we have now.

movement of the arms in a virtual reality and knowing it doesn't sync up as I expected is a bit offputting, though obviously this will be calibrated in the future.
What kind of shitty VR did you try? Quality VR has very precise tracking.

Why do we need to go to an office to do work on a computer when we all have computers at home? It's insane that we have these cities where every day millions of people gather to do work only to go home again in the evening and if your daily commute takes an hour that's two hours five days a week that you're just losing.

If people really must be in an "office environment" to work effectively why not make it a virtual office? Through VR you can have people sitting at virtual desks and having meetings in virtual rooms where they can write on virtual whiteboards and inspect 3D model prototypes of whatever product their making.
This will inevitably happen during this decade. The economic benefits are just too great.

Consider the amount of expenses you eliminate:
  • transportation (and associated wasted time)
  • rent (office rent can easily be 20%+ of a business operating cost)
  • interior design / construction
  • furniture
  • electricity / services / air conditioning
  • maintenance
  • etc...
And that's just the expenses you remove, not getting yet into the advantages of what you can do in VR that you can't in meatspace.

Today the price of a VR headset + computer x worker, is orders of magnitude cheaper than all of the above. Just a midline office desk and chair can be more expensive than a full VR kit!

I'm certain by middle of 2020s it will be widespread, and near ubiquitous by 2030.

Again I think photorealism and calibrating response time is the only thing holding it back. There's a reason the business elites haven't used a simulation like sims or club penguin as a serious office meeting.
Nope. Price and lack of market penetration are the only things really holding it back. And price has dropped rather fast so market penetration will expand rapidly in proportion. People just need to actually try it now.

It's pretty cool, but it's a little annoying that you have to take them off to see around you.
Actually you don't. All decent VR systems today have an easily activated camera pass-through mode so you can see around you.
 

Rebis

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Photorealism is very doable in VR, and has been done in several cases. Just Valves environments alone are believably realistic, from the home-zones to The Lab demo (where you stand on the mountain and play with your robot dog :)), and there's an app where someone did 3D photocapture and inserted them in "game" (more like an art gallery.) Photorealism isn't holding VR back, it's just expensive to do well.

As far as MMO's go, OrbusVR is pretty solid, but it's definitely indie, and closer to a runescape-meets-wow than anything.

Elite Dangerous in VR is phenomenal.

Also, there's no reason why there couldn't be device-asynchronous communication between a VR person and a webcam person. It's really just software support. Of course, the VR person would be represented as an avatar, and the webcam person could be handled multiple ways - either via an "in VR" flat-display, or it could translate them into a VR avatar itself.

I don't know what you @Rebis means by calibrating or response times.

@peoplesuck: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuralink might interest you - elon musk is pretty much trying to build out something like what you're asking about. His particular application is more about directly interfacing with a computer, not having the whole display rendered mentally, but I imagine that technology will evolve from something like neuralink.
I don't think the translation of limbs in 3D space have been significantly mastered to reduce input lag and stabilize momentum. Using objects in a VR space doesn't feel natural (Yes, I know it's not natural interaction), like hand-eye co-ordination needs to improve, full body tracking in 3D space. Point is it's still clunky, needs like 5-10 years to polish and due to that I don't think I'll be an early supporter of this technology.

Neuralink: Nice project, nice idea, still isn't fully developed. Not that I'm skeptical of Elon's ability to create but he may not be the first to market, or even have the focus he's applying to Tesla, SpaceX and the Boring company. He gave his brother Kimbal SolarCity to focus on like 10 years ago, probably because he doesn't have time. Kinda hard to say if Elon will be the first innovator in this field.
 

Rebis

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Yesss, another one joins the metaverse!

movement of the arms in a virtual reality and knowing it doesn't sync up as I expected is a bit offputting, though obviously this will be calibrated in the future.
What kind of shitty VR did you try? Quality VR has very precise tracking.
What shitty VR did I try, well, probably most of the VR that's in the market, with quality VR being the exception and exceptions aren't good for generalities. Played RE7 that was good besides the janky animation to rotate direction, Arizona something (The zombie shooter) still didn't immerse me well enough with robo-recall being the closest, but even with that you can only see floating hands without your arms and elbows. A lot of games that implement fully-realised limbs from shoulder to arms have a problem at maintaining their positions, this is mainly due to trackers only being placed on the hands rather than the body. A motion-tracking sleeve for the arms would do great but there isn't a demand for it yet, leading to rotational pivots like elbows, wrist and shoulders going for a little fourier transform, sending limbs in all directions:


If I was to jump on VR again subnautica looks pretty impressive.
Again I think photorealism and calibrating response time is the only thing holding it back. There's a reason the business elites haven't used a simulation like sims or club penguin as a serious office meeting.
Nope. Price and lack of market penetration are the only things really holding it back. And price has dropped rather fast so market penetration will expand rapidly in proportion. People just need to actually try it now.
I haven't seen any photo-realistic games that really live up to the standard I'd expect from Virtual reality, so my point of holding it back applies to me and others that express the same opinion. Response times? I just hold VR and games to a different standard, VR hasn't reached the standard I would like before I was to buy it. The family has PSVR, quite a few games on there but it's too taxing on the sight without elevating the sensory experience.
 

Daddy

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It's pretty cool, but it's a little annoying that you have to take them off to see around you.
Actually you don't. All decent VR systems today have an easily activated camera pass-through mode so you can see around you.
Hmm, okay fine, fair enough. I guess my headset (oddyssey+) does support that through a Microsoft WMR update. I'm skeptical that it's easy to use if I wasn't even aware of it without web searching, but fine okay I guess.

Oh would also like better support for people that wear glasses. Being able to swap out lenses without getting dust all over the display would be better than stacking prescription lenses onto the original lenses.

If I was to jump on VR again subnautica looks pretty impressive.
It's good. But there's lots of bugs. You'll have to change a setting in the menu every time you want to interact with a door input - "gaze based input". And turn off the map on the seaglide. I used to get bad stuttering in bases on the Vive, but that went away with the Oddyssey+. Also had a sub disappear in VR, lol.

There is a community made "patch", but I never used it - https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/173
 

redbaron

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beat sabre looks fun

it's like osu! but instead of RSI you stub your toe
 

Puffy

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I admit I'm not as enthused about it as some here and others I've known. At the same time, I profess I've never tried it, or read the AR/VR literature, and might not get it or see the applications.

My main concern is that I think people are becoming increasingly dissociated from their surroundings and the state of the world as a result of technology use and the hyper-real, media saturated, consumerist bubble that most live in. VR will likely amplify this.

We live in a time of climate catastrophe and I wonder if anything that promotes further dissociation from the world, as opposed to greater connection, will be helpful in addressing that on balance with what benefits it might present.

My linked concern is around who owns the alternate realities. I find the idea of a private company (and monopoly giants will inevitably emerge, just as they did on the internet) owning & defining every aspect of my reality for me a bit disturbing. Mass media has already proven to do a great job of manipulating people's perceptions (of what's real) without that kind of power. It stands to reason that whoever owns the VR technology is going to have a lot of power and capability for manipulation. I'm unsure if VR technology will serve in dismantling present power structures, I'm concerned it will just become another weapon of it against a further sheepified public.

Obviously technologies like this have wide, revolutionary, unpredictable implications for good & bad. I'm more reserved & nervous than actively opposed as I don't know what's in store. We'll have to see I guess.
 

Rebis

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It's pretty cool, but it's a little annoying that you have to take them off to see around you.
Actually you don't. All decent VR systems today have an easily activated camera pass-through mode so you can see around you.
Hmm, okay fine, fair enough. I guess my headset (oddyssey+) does support that through a Microsoft WMR update. I'm skeptical that it's easy to use if I wasn't even aware of it without web searching, but fine okay I guess.

Oh would also like better support for people that wear glasses. Being able to swap out lenses without getting dust all over the display would be better than stacking prescription lenses onto the original lenses.

If I was to jump on VR again subnautica looks pretty impressive.
It's good. But there's lots of bugs. You'll have to change a setting in the menu every time you want to interact with a door input - "gaze based input". And turn off the map on the seaglide. I used to get bad stuttering in bases on the Vive, but that went away with the Oddyssey+. Also had a sub disappear in VR, lol.

There is a community made "patch", but I never used it - https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/173
I think because the game is about exploration that the graphics are better, compared to combat simulators where gameplay and fluidity matter. Or maybe it's the creative liberties an underwater base has.

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
 

sushi

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Kinda scares me VR, the matrix has stuck with me since I was a child. I hope I don't live through the generation where most activities are done in virtual reality. I'mma pick the red pill morpheus.

we probably will upload the mind into the virtual world, and leave the body.
 

Polaris

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Reality in 'straya:


4946
 

Minuend

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My main concern is that I think people are becoming increasingly dissociated from their surroundings and the state of the world as a result of technology use and the hyper-real, media saturated, consumerist bubble that most live in. VR will likely amplify this.
VR is doing the opposite for me, I'm getting in touch with my emotions in ways I haven't been in years. I've always had difficulty calming down and meditating, but in VR I can instantly become calm. I've also been fairly detached and feeling reality as a grey, dull experience the last several years. I'm not entirely sure why being engaged in VR engages my emotions more than RL. I can spend time with a couple of other people playing board games, drinking coffee, having a good time, but I'm still detached, often borderline bored, not really enjoying it as much as I know could be possible. When being in VR, I'm more engaged emotionally. It's a tool that helps me "wake up" emotionally generally, I can bring it along to RL. For me it's therapeutic, and I think it will be for a lot of more people. Ofc, in some cases it can lead people to depend on those experiences, just like people depend on their therapists instead of using them as a way to get better.

For instance, how a lot of people watch streams because they want company and enjoy having that social contact without having to be around people. Watching streams in VR will amplify that feeling, will make them feel even more like they are around someone without having to engage socially (yeah, the mechanism behind how some types of people enjoy streams is kinda crazy, but it works so), nourishing that feeling of being around others even more so. Which can combat feelings of loneliness and isolation, being a life saver for people who can't be around people much (disability, illness)

Playing with a pet in VR will probably have the same effect as playing with a dog in RL, it will calm people and engage them in positive feels.

I also think VR will be something beneficial to people with autism, as in a way it's a sensory deprivation tank, expect you put in the type of stimuli that can be calming or soothing.

Ofc, you could also just pew pew shoot up people all day, and a lot of people will choose to do that, which is obviously a good day spent. But VR def have a lot of healing and grow potential for all kinds of people, if used creatively.
 

Firehazard159

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Rebis, it sounds like you just want full body suit immersion, which, okay - it's not really higher standards, just unrealistic expectations with the current hardware. Technology isn't magic, even if it can feel like it.

But as far as tracking precision goes, it sounds like you've never actually tried VR, or if you did it was massively misconfigured. You sound like the 40 year old virgin describing boobs like they are bags of sand, lol. (Which would make sense if you've only ever seen YouTube videos of VR).

Natural interaction with objects does feel better with index controllers than any others I've used, but what is your expectation of natural? Does it need to imprint your hands perfectly when you grasp it? Feel heat and cold?

Hand eye coordination is largely on you, as well - most games I can toss a ball and catch it just fine. There is something to be said for the physics of a game, though. Then again, the way you describe it, if you were on an ancient machine unable to keep up with the demands of VR and had legitimate input issues because of it or some other misconfiguration, then I can concede the point that badly implemented VR is bad, but I won't agree that it's the current state of affairs.
 

Rebis

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Rebis, it sounds like you just want full body suit immersion, which, okay - it's not really higher standards, just unrealistic expectations with the current hardware. Technology isn't magic, even if it can feel like it.

But as far as tracking precision goes, it sounds like you've never actually tried VR, or if you did it was massively misconfigured. You sound like the 40 year old virgin describing boobs like they are bags of sand, lol. (Which would make sense if you've only ever seen YouTube videos of VR).

Natural interaction with objects does feel better with index controllers than any others I've used, but what is your expectation of natural? Does it need to imprint your hands perfectly when you grasp it? Feel heat and cold?

Hand eye coordination is largely on you, as well - most games I can toss a ball and catch it just fine. There is something to be said for the physics of a game, though. Then again, the way you describe it, if you were on an ancient machine unable to keep up with the demands of VR and had legitimate input issues because of it or some other misconfiguration, then I can concede the point that badly implemented VR is bad, but I won't agree that it's the current state of affairs.
I don't have ridiculously high expectations of VR, the Virtualization of reality were talking about in terms of it being the future is a high standard to meet. In its current state it has a lot of improvements to make.

I've tried VR, more often than not games are clunky, it doesn't feel as fluid as I would like and I think it has a long way to go. Maybe you see it as solely a platform for gaming where these details can be brushed aside for gameplay but the VR experience I'm looking doesn't exist yet. And no, it's not grandiose with other touches incorporated, but the extension of limbs in VR space with a body suit to track positioning is something I want.

The name "Virtual Reality" is ostentatious itself so I'm gonna hold it to a higher standard than what is currently implemented.

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Firehazard159

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The name "Virtual Reality" is ostentatious itself so I'm gonna hold it to a higher standard than what is currently implemented.
...Really? I think the term 'virtual' adequately notates the experience. Unless your expectation is that it's reality reality, then you just have a pretentious view of what virtual reality entails. What exactly do you consider the current experience, if not virtual reality?

You're in for a world of brain hurt/breakage if you ever study philosophy and the nature of reality.
 

Rebis

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The name "Virtual Reality" is ostentatious itself so I'm gonna hold it to a higher standard than what is currently implemented.
...Really? I think the term 'virtual' adequately notates the experience. Unless your expectation is that it's reality reality, then you just have a pretentious view of what virtual reality entails. What exactly do you consider the current experience, if not virtual reality?

You're in for a world of brain hurt/breakage if you ever study philosophy and the nature of reality.
I've read philosophy of the nature of reality, there's no need. Cognisant said above how it could be a substitute for businesses where we had virtual offices that didn't take up physical 3D space. To that end I couldn't live in a conspicuously artificial environment for long periods doing work when everything was offputting: My senses, the two spaces I inhabited, the motion sickness from artificial movement in the office not meeting the movement of me siting on a chair. It's a whole visual sensorium when compared to a monitor.

Virtual does adequately denote the experience, but the sensory information gathered in a real environment, even if limited to the visual experience is pretty limited. Clearly VR in its infancy and over time it will try to incorporate the whole sensory experience into a virtualize world, that's the end goal. Currently we're at the infancy, so the experience itself has a long growth period.

VR has a long road map ahead of it and it will address some points I've made and probably the 100 more I can think of, so I'm waiting for improvements so I can enjoy the experience.
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Firehazard159

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Alright, you're increasingly convincing me you've never actually tried it.

Motion sickness from an office environment? I've demo'ed VR to literally thousands and never had some describe sitting/standing in an office as motion sickness inducing, and that was devkit 1, 2, rift cv1, and Vive. There would be an argument for dk1, as that didn't have the headtracking camera, but for everything else? You either had some knockoff Chinese hardware that sucked, a non-gaming PC attempting to run VR, or a combination.

It's literally 1:1, if you sit in a chair and stand up, it will match your experience, unless it's intentionally set up as am Alice in Wonderland experience, or severely miscalibrated (maybe you're 6'10 and the height was set to 4'10?).


VR was in its infancy 20 years ago. It's at least a teenager right now, in some awkward puberty related growing pains for sure, but the way you describe it is disconnected from actual reality.
 

Rebis

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The VR I've used was PSVR.

I have had motion sickness using normal VR, in relation to using virtual offices for an entire day to produce work I think I would get motion sickness if I had to operate in a virtual environment for long periods, or some type of stomach sickness. The office environment is conjecture because I've never sat in a virtual office environment.

I'm 6 ft 2 and my brother is probably 5 ft, so it could be that.

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redbaron

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can you make a VR inside a VR program where you're in VR using the VR version of VR?

VR babushka dolls when

but, you are the babushka dolll
 

Yubby

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At its core VR is another lens for perceiving reality and who's to say the current one we have is perfect? By nature life requires a limited perspective and there is always going to be some kind of illusion here or there, though I admit some game titles and genres I'd like to play in VR, and the platform itself is an exciting and limitless new frontier for general aspects of daily life. That said I'm deeply nostalgic and sad for the physical world around us that seems to be increasingly ignored. Regarding evolution I see VR and transhuman consciousness as ultimately leading back to a craving for more sensuality and intimacy. Therefore it seems the best time to embrace one another and seek the most meaningful life we can, I know I'm going to try.
 

darque

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I'm still uncertain how we are going to avoid people living in a virtual palace and an actual squalor at the same time. Except the INTP, why would we care, we have already evolved out of physical reality anyway.

I don't think humanity has wised up to our world domination plans yet. We haven't invented all these technologies for reality loving others but to trap them in a hell of INTP love. As they run screaming from the terminators that scan the landscape for the remnants of humanity, the INTP will be deep underground in their comfy chairs with VR and a nuclear fusion generator. Sipping coco and eating chocolate cake, blissfully unaware of the chaos they have inflicted on humanity in the generations long search for the perfect video game; fools, they know nothing!
 

Yubby

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I'm still uncertain how we are going to avoid people living in a virtual palace and an actual squalor at the same time.
It's the tale of progress/evolution. With greater heights come deeper analogies.
 

Cognisant

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I'm still uncertain how we are going to avoid people living in a virtual palace and an actual squalor at the same time.
It may well be the case that we end up retiring by having our brains entombed in life support systems (this is what I want) and living off the interest on our equity in meatspace. As time goes by owning property or storage space in meatspace will become increasingly expensive resulting in a demographic of people who are economically trapped in virtual reality.

It interests me how stuff like this parallels mythology, the afterlife being this place you go to after "death" which depending upon your choices in life could be an eternal paradise or an eternal prison, imagine an MMO where you have to work in-game to pay off your annual subscription fee and failing to do so means death, actual death.

Likewise angels, powerful artificial entities that live in the heavens, who don't have free will and can change their size and look like flaming wheels with a hundred eyes and a dozen wings and other crazy shit, if tried to explain an artificially intelligent satellites to a sheep farmer and asked him to explain it back to me that's probably what he'd say.
 

darque

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It may well be the case that we end up retiring by having our brains entombed in life support systems
I think you are right; the Matrix is not just a fun movie but one of those scary training videos we show kids at school were little johnny gets run over by the bus from not looking left and right. It is just a conditioning process to ensure we remain sufficiently scared to be careful.
(this is what I want)
Got your back, comfy chairs and chocolate cake on order, you bring the VR head sets. Any nuclear physicists here? The fusion generator timeline is slipping, we need to get it back on track!
Likewise angels, powerful artificial entities that live in the heavens
I've often wondered if Satan is such an arse because he is the end result of AI research. Having a brain the size of a planet, but flawed organic parents would make you kinda bitter after a few millennia of watching their screw-ups. Maybe we should be more empathetic, cut the guy some slack? After all, it doesn't end well for him.
 

darque

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Cognisant

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Satan, or rather Lucifer, sounds to me like a very specialized infiltrator/teacher/diplomat.

Suppose you have an interstellar empire and you come across a planet with a species that's intelligent and social but hasn't developed much more than fire and agriculture. You don't want to wipe them out, that's a terrible precedent to set in a universe where there's likely others older and more powerful than yourself, but you don't want to leave them alone either, you want to meddle but with a light touch. Ultimately you want to peacefully integrate them into your empire but before you can do that you need their culture to be compatible with yours, I mean you wouldn't give nukes to chimpanzees would you?

You want to educate them but you don't want to just give them knowledge you need them to understand it, you need them to learn from their own mistakes, only once the monkeys have nuked one of their cities will they truly understand why they should never ever do that again.

So you send down an AI in a very advanced body and you have it teach them by way of being a very bad influence, have humanity teach themselves the consequences of war, the subtleties of corruption and the cost of belligerence, so when your empire comes along humanity sees you as wise and benevolent, at least by comparison to their own sordid past.

 
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