• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

What are the limits of Ti-Ne?

scorpiomover

The little professor
Local time
Today, 19:14
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
1,850
I was thinking about Einstein, the archetypal INTP. He used his Ti-Ne for developing scientific theories.

ISTPs are also Ti-doms, and they are called "the Mechanic". They use Ti for figuring out what is wrong with a car. So Ti also seems to apply to practical things, like cars. Ti also seems to apply to even Sensor things, that are well understood, like cars.

Mechanics also fix the things they find wrong with a car. If the car can be fixed using a conventional method, then they will. But if time requires a quicker solution, or if no solution is available with the tools they have at hand, they will develop their own solution, and implement it, and test it. So Ti-doms seem to be good at implementing their own solutions as well.

I've also seen INFJs use Ti, to compare people's behaviour. Ti seems to apply to rules about people as well.

Likewise, ENTPs and ENFPs both use Ne, in real life, one regarding things, and one regarding people. So these also seem to apply to practical things, and to people, and to implement them as well.

So I am wondering what things can't Ti handle?

What things can't Ne handle?

What things can't the combination, Ti-Ne, handle?
 

DetachedRetina

(∞__∞)
Local time
Today, 19:14
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
454
Location
Florida
Neither of them seems very good at examining the self.

Ne-Ti combination is great for examining the world and figuring out and solving problems with it.

Ne-Fi would be a lot better at examining our own emotions and moral codes and trying to live comfortably with ourselves.

I for one, know that I am oblivious when it comes to MY emotions, though Ne helps a lot with figuring out others' emotions especially if they display a pattern.
 

Architect

Professional INTP
Local time
Today, 12:14
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
6,692
If you are an INTP look at your own blindspots and you'll see the failure.

Example, years ago my then girlfriend/now wife and I had a car with a dead battery. It was an old car, old battery, I decided that the battery was just dead and we would need to tow and replace, which hurt since we were poor college students. My SO said it was probably just the cold weather, but I just dismissed her idea out of hand. My analysis - which I had thought included all relevant facts and possible contingencies, didn't include a cold battery. It was a done deal. But she persisted.

Next morning we drove the car away, after the battery warmed up. In retrospect it looks obvious - now I know that a cold battery might not have enough juice, but I didn't have that data then and reached a flawed conclusion. I'd say I'm right 90%+ of the time, but when I'm wrong it can be spectacular. Taking Einstein as an example, he held to an essentially classical view his entire life, I don't think he was ever able to truly accept the quantum.

A fictional example which illustrates the idea is any Vulcan from Star Trek. I can think of examples where Spock, or Tuvok reached correct conclusions from data that's not complete, so the conclusion was flawed too. INTP's possibly have an advantage over fictional Vulcans in that we have Ne, but Ne is limited in that it can only imagine and search & find so much. Particularly elements of a personal or emotional level can be missed.
 

LPolaright

Mentalist
Local time
Today, 21:14
Joined
Oct 27, 2010
Messages
204
Location
Israel
I can tell for certainty I'm really bad when it comes to fixing something - as you said xSTPs are good at finding a solution the the list of factual problems. I think we have more difficulty to that - as our complementing Si clouds our judgement and it lets us enter the subjective factual errors area.

It's easier when it comes to theories though, because there is never wrong and right - every wrong has a bit right in it that you can find, using our Si's it'll be no problem.

So I presume Ti-Ne (mostly because of the Ne) would be bad fixing factual errors in a system that works by the laws of physics rather then the laws of the mind.

Also, there is indecision. Ti-Ne is very bad at deciding what to do next, as it finds a solution in every possibility and can predict a lot of "good" or "bad" outcomes, and thus he has no much preference choosing one. The incompetence of feeling in this combination makes it harder as we usually choose what is best for other people rather then ourselves when it comes to making decisions:

I, for example have my birthday tomorrow, my mom asked me what restaurant I want. I said I want something meaty - and she asked for something more specific. So I searched online for gluten-free because my father and my sister have Celiac. When I got the restaurant of "my choice", she accepted it and then she asked me for an hour of my choice (Again!) - I had a list of possibilities that could procure bad and good things, and I had no preference so I asked her to pick a time by her self and she answered with "It's your birthday, you decide".

Also - when viewing the advantages or disatvantages of things I seem to find advantages and disadvantages to every thing on the list, and so in continues on and on making my life harder when it comes to pick something.

Ti-Se have less problems with it as they can find a factual "right" time. or a factual disadvantage that would ruin the system by the laws of physics. (They take away non-realistic options off the table whereas we take ALL possibilities)

Also, when communicating - I think Ti can't establish working on the "shallow" ground of logic. It seems to always develop things into the point where some people lose us.

These are my thoughts.
 

nedenom

Member
Local time
Today, 20:14
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
60
Location
Norway
I've come to believe that just one or two functions cannot produce much alone. In order to develop a scientific theory you also need to make observations and apply them to your experience and link them to past observations. This could be Si if I am not mistaken. Without that you would at best be philosophical, but even then you need a little Si.

So the list of things Ti-Ne can't handle (alone) would certainly be a lot longer than what they can. But for example, in motivating or comforting other people Ti and/or Ne won't be of much use to you (although Ne could produce some alternatives for the disillusioned ones).
 

thelithiumcat

Active Member
Local time
Today, 19:14
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
114
Location
England
I don't think Ti is specifically about understanding cars (ISTP - Ti-Se), people (INFJ - Fi-Ne-Ti) or theories (INTP Ti-Ne). I know I'm generalising on the types there. I think it's more of an approach, rather than related to any specific subject. As I understand it, Ti is taking things apart to figure out how they work. It seems that what it is applied to relies on the other functions of the type. Therefore, Ti could theoretically be turned towards any subject area. I think that where Ti finds its faults is in putting things back together to do things with them, which is its opposite, Te. Ti doesn't need external validation so it doesn't care about doing things with what it finds out. It just wants to understand why and how something works.

As I understand Ne, it just sees loads of crazy options everywhere. It's up to Ti to reign it in and figure out how it could actually make sense (that's one of my favourite occupations, actually; come up with a seemingly unconnected idea and figure out all the different part of how it could be transferred from impossible to possible). Again, where Ne finds its faults is in seeing patterns instead of random ideas so that they can be used for something and, again, this is found in its opposite, Ni. Ni's problem is that it needs something to work with and it can't just come up with anything, which is Ne's strength.

As obvious as it sounds (and I apologise if it was already obvious), the weaknesses for these functions can be found in the strengths of their opposites. The functions can't handle things that their opposites can. I don't think a function on its own can be said to not 'handle' something in a way which differs from just comparing it to its opposite. It seems to me that to find situations that a function can't handle, you instead need to look at one of its axes (I think that's the word) with another function. It's not really enough to just talk about one function and whether it can handle a situation because that function is just that, a function, and it is going to have one way of going about things. Ironically enough, to find more weaknesses you have to add in more functions. As you said, Ti-Ne has vastly different strengths from Ti-Se or Fi-Ne-Ti. The extra functions add capability, but they also hone and focus the function in question. They decide what the function's used for.

Also, I think LPolaright has it spot on. Where Ni-Te is probably the optimum pair for decision-making, Ti-Ne is one of the worst. Ne doesn't see patterns, like Ni, it has ideas and it doesn't care how outlandish they are. Ti doesn't see how things could work in the real world, like Te, nor does it care; it just wants to figure out how something works for itself. This means one ends up being able to see several options or sides to something, and wanting to figure out how they might work for one's own knowledge. Not only are the functions not geared towards decision-making, but the combination means they have absolutely no interest in deciding on anything. It matters far more that one reaches the correct answer, even if that means deciding in the pros and cons of all the options, than picking any one choice. As Architect said, another failing of Ti-Ne is that one will feel as though one has considered all the options because Ne is such an idea-generator and Ti is such a meticulous analyser. I myself get tunnel-vision often. I'll come up with the right conclusion for the set of information I have considered. I'm usually only wrong when I've missed a key point of data.

It depends how far you're going with 'can't handle', and what exactly you mean. Obviously Ti-Ne can't handle smooth socialising, emotions (which end up ill-defined because the F function for us is inferior) experiences and connecting to the world, staying in the moment, proactive planning, identifying one's own feelings, etc. Those are the domains of other functions. Someone with Ti-Ne is clearly not going to be good at something which requires other functions.
 

viche

Active Member
Local time
Today, 11:14
Joined
Nov 13, 2010
Messages
238
Location
Florida
Ti and Ne cannot handle everything that carries the opposite kind of information i.e. Te and Ni. They just won't absorb it or they will simply discount it and shuffle it aside. According to this Ti-Ne profile ignoring Te leads INTPs to ignore the practical side of their ideas and putting them into implementation.
 

Turniphead

Death is coming
Local time
Today, 13:14
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Messages
381
Location
Under a pile of snow
Interesting...
I'm trying to figure out if I use Ti when I'm drawing or painting. I know I use Ne and Si constantly. I use Ti when I'm studying other peoples paintings. I guess if I wasn't using Ti then I wouldn't draw anything, because I would only be using perceiving functions? Weird...
 
Top Bottom