• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

What constitutes manipulation?

Chad

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 12:20 AM
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
1,079
-->
Location
Westbrook, Maine
Were do you draw the line between manipulation and help?
 

QuickTwist

Spiritual "Woo"
Local time
Yesterday 11:20 PM
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
7,182
-->
Location
...
heheh. first responce might as well be a cliché one.

Depends who you ask.
 

TimeAsylums

Prolific Member
Local time
Yesterday 10:20 PM
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
3,127
-->
anything and everything
like taking candy from a baby
 

Jennywocky

guud languager
Local time
Today 12:20 AM
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,725
-->
Location
Charn
As pool balls suffer diverted paths even by the slightest brushing of their exteriors, all contact manipulates the paths of the toucher and touchee. This is the nature of an interactive system.

But what diversions would be negatively decried as manipulation?
 

Cherry Cola

Banned
Local time
Today 5:20 AM
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Messages
3,899
-->
Location
stockholm
why do you think they are mutually exclusive? I don't and I have a trouble establishing a dichotomy with a linear continuum between the two in my head.
 

SpaceYeti

Prolific Member
Local time
Yesterday 10:20 PM
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Messages
5,592
-->
Location
Crap
Manipulation is when you get people to do things without them realizing you're trying to get them to do it, and is generally selfish, whereas help is blunt and unselfish.

Interestingly, the two women who posted claim they see no difference between the two, or have a difficult time distinguishing at least.

Go sexism powers!
 

Hawkeye

Banned
Local time
Today 5:20 AM
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
2,424
-->
Location
Schmocation
The line is more of a fuzzy mess as perspective also plays a big role on whether it is a positive manipulation, or a negative one.
 

Brontosaurie

Banned
Local time
Today 6:20 AM
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
5,646
-->
why do you think they are mutually exclusive? I don't and I have a trouble establishing a dichotomy with a linear continuum between the two in my head.

yeah but still we have to tell what distinguishes the phenomena. even if there's overlap and no specific cut-off point. otherwise they might as well be called the same thing.

frustratingly enough it appears to be a matter of intent. might be reducible to a utilitarian formula. i certainly hope so.
 

Chad

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 12:20 AM
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
1,079
-->
Location
Westbrook, Maine
I think the term "Intent" is very powerful.

However, it is an almost completely impossible concept to identify with accuracy.

What looks like vicious manipulation could be done with good intentions.

I agree with your assessment though.
 

Brontosaurie

Banned
Local time
Today 6:20 AM
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
5,646
-->
I think the term "Intent" is very powerful.

However, it is an almost completely impossible concept to identify with accuracy.

What looks like vicious manipulation could be done with good intentions.


yes. hence the frustration! one feels compelled to clarify something as fuzzy as intent.
 

Jennywocky

guud languager
Local time
Today 12:20 AM
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,725
-->
Location
Charn
Manipulation is when you get people to do things without them realizing you're trying to get them to do it, and is generally selfish, whereas help is blunt and unselfish.

Interestingly, the two women who posted claim they see no difference between the two, or have a difficult time distinguishing at least.

Go sexism powers!

Maybe we're just asking leading questions rather than giving the answers.
 

SpaceYeti

Prolific Member
Local time
Yesterday 10:20 PM
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Messages
5,592
-->
Location
Crap

Hawkeye

Banned
Local time
Today 5:20 AM
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
2,424
-->
Location
Schmocation
As pool balls suffer diverted paths even by the slightest brushing of their exteriors, all contact manipulates the paths of the toucher and touchee. This is the nature of an interactive system.

But what diversions would be negatively decried as manipulation?

To answer that question you would need to expand the metaphor to include either a goal or purpose.

Once this has been established, manipulation in a negative sense could be anything that prevented it from achieving the goal (or purpose).
 

GodOfOrder

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 12:20 AM
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
520
-->
Location
West Virginia
If one party gains in an interaction, it is exploitative. If each party in an interaction gains, it is beneficial.

In this case I would say the intent of the action, being either mutual gain or single party gain, would determine the difference between manipulation and help.
 

QuickTwist

Spiritual "Woo"
Local time
Yesterday 11:20 PM
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
7,182
-->
Location
...
Expounding on this idea, would it be considered manipulation if you are selling something for more then you got it for if the product is in the same or worse condition knowing that the buyer is ignorant of what it is worth or what you paid for it?
 

QuickTwist

Spiritual "Woo"
Local time
Yesterday 11:20 PM
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
7,182
-->
Location
...
Anyways who likes being manipulated weather for good intent or ill?
 

redbaron

irony based lifeform
Local time
Today 2:20 PM
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
Messages
7,253
-->
Location
69S 69E
I'm assuming you're talking about psychological manipulation, not literal manipulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_manipulation

There's several different viewpoints from varying psychologists of what constitutes manipulation, each with it's own subgroup of manipulative behaviours. All in all, there's roughly 20 or so 'specific' behaviours that are considered manipulative.

Cherry Cola said:
why do you think they are mutually exclusive? I don't and I have a trouble establishing a dichotomy with a linear continuum between the two in my head.

Notable: positive reinforcement (rewarding, help) is listed as manipulative, when offered for non-altruistic purposes. I.e: sacrifice something small now, to con someone into giving a larger gain later.

I'm just going to go with that.
 
Top Bottom