What Happened?

[The Habitat Doctor]

I realize this has at least been semi-discussed in previous threads, some of which I've skimmed through, so I'll try to keep it short and hide the redundant parts. I haven't investigated much, I'm lazy atm :P

I first became aware of the MBTI in high school (2005), originally tested as a hardcore INTJ (J was normally over 80-90%), and repeated the same results on several subsequent tests through summer 2009 (5 semesters of college completed), at which point I was allowed to conduct my first true field research and I became the all-perceiving idea machine that I am today (while working on one project, I drafted proposals for 7 more, and outlines for approx. 30 on top of that.) Since then, I went from attempting to get 2 degrees in under 4 years with a 3.8+ GPA (Fisheries & Wildlife Biology and Sociology, and I routinely took over 18 credits) to a dysfunctional genius barely able to pull off a 3.0 and cutting my undergraduate academic pursuit short in an attempt to enter grad school.

In childhood I was very much INTP, but it stopped at about age 15 (2003). Childhood experiences described in this thread:

Spoiler

INTP Forum - View Single Post - INTP shit you did as a child

So, my two general questions are:

1. What happened?

2. Is it possible that INTP/INTJ are merely two sides of the same coin?

My specific question is:

How can one tell the difference between an INTJ and an INTP under stress? (I understand that there's this J/P switch thing that's apparently induced by stress...?)

 

[The Gopher]

INTJs tend to care, INTPs don't maybe you were unrealistic in high school mistyped by what you wanted to be?

 

[The Habitat Doctor]

Everything seemed pretty legit. I was freakishly organized, never late, did all schoolwork, awake at 6AM routinely. I really did care (about other's thoughts of me, my looks, my grades, my schedule)...and then it just sort of unraveled.

 

[Cogwulf]

Everything seemed pretty legit. I was freakishly organized, never late, did all schoolwork, awake at 6AM routinely. I really did care (about other's thoughts of me, my looks, my grades, my schedule)...and then it just sort of unraveled.

How stressed were you during this time?

All INTPs can be organised if they try, the difference is the level of comfort with doing so.

 

[The Habitat Doctor]

How stressed were you during this time?

All INTPs can be organised if they try, the difference is the level of comfort with doing so.

I really wasn't for the most part. Prior to going to high school I was expelled and forced to attend yet another school. I decided to be organized, but had very little difficulty maintaining it. I wasn't consciously structured, it was a part of me for a very long time afterward.

The really cool part is that during summer 2009, I became tremendously stressed because my partner and fellow research technician got arrested for underage drinking (and driving) and was held in jail for 30 days, leaving me to do twice the work, after which I started "falling apart". But if that's the case, I haven't "recovered", and I'm not exactly under stress right now (over a year now) as an INTP.

 

[The Habitat Doctor]

Just want to clarify: By no means am I uncomfortable or threatened by being an INTP, I'm just curious as to the process that led to the result.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Everything seemed pretty legit. I was freakishly organized, never late, did all schoolwork, awake at 6AM routinely. I really did care (about other's thoughts of me, my looks, my grades, my schedule)...and then it just sort of unraveled.

That's not unique.

MBTI has this idea that if you're hardworking, not lazy and organized - J type. If you're lazy, unfocused, open-ended - P type.

INTJs cannot actually turn into INTPs and vice-versa. Though they can be tested as one, due to current life circumstances.

Some differences between INTP and INTJ due to J/P:

• INTPs are hesitant on decisions and INTJs are confident on which decisions suit them.
• INTPs live by what feels right and what doesn't, though latent values. INTJs live according to self-established principles and rules.
• INTJs know what they know and what they don't know; INTPs just know a lot.

 

[Minuend]

I can be organized. At work for instance, I see organizing as strategic thinking which I enjoy. I order people around to get the work done most efficiently. Only thing is, I get drained if doing it for long periods of time. I get drained by repeating myself and by ordering people around. But in the end when you see results, you get that inner, what, dopamine release, that motivates you to continue to be organized.

You know, part of the problem with procrastination is that you consider the reward to be looooong time away and you loose motivation. Small goals can reduce this reluctance somewhat. I started thinking in smaller parts after reading that article in SA Mind, and it made it easier for me to do the research I wanted to do.

# NTPs are hesitant on decisions and INTJs are confident on which decisions suit them.

As an INTP, this is true for me

# INTPs live by what feels right and what doesn't, though latent values. INTJs live according to self-established principles and rules.

I don't find this accurate. I live by a sense of fairness, my "feelings" isn't involved like you imply here. Of course we are all always influenced by our emotions, but even if my feelings goes against something, if I consider the logic to be sound I can't argue against it. Regardless of what I personal feel and want, I have to submit to logic. Or, to be precise, what I consider logical or fair. It's difficult to explain, but I can't retaliate against a perspective if the logic is sound no matter how much I dislike it.

# INTJs know what they know and what they don't know; INTPs just know a lot.

The problem about knowing is that everything has a lot of perspectives and possibilities, so it's difficult to determine where to begin (or end). Knowledge is connected and pinpointing accurately is rather difficult. I believe INTJs would more precise, while INTPs would tend to float around perhaps not even touching the topic asked about.

Oh, and btw, in my experience INTPs and INTJs are quite different.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Not emotional feelings, vibes, is what I meant. Regardless, I could be wrong / inaccurate.

 

[The Habitat Doctor]

INTJs cannot actually turn into INTPs and vice-versa. Though they can be tested as one, due to current life circumstances.

How would I false type for such a long period of time though, and in different circumstances (high school vs college)? *ideaflash-->* Could it have anything to do with the fact that I was a total misanthrope during that time period? I literally hated the world's guts and was completely self-serving, and then I made a few friends...


Some differences between INTP and INTJ due to J/P:

• INTPs are hesitant on decisions and INTJs are confident on which decisions suit them.

I find that both of these have a place in my thinking. Anything involving my career/school/ecology I'm very hesitant to make a decision, too caught up in the potential possibilities (i.e. when drawing conclusions and management implications from a research publication I cycle through all possibilities, which can take several weeks for a small 5 page publication). However, everything else (diet, housing, finances, transportation) is pretty much set in stone.

• INTPs live by what feels right and what doesn't, though latent values. INTJs live according to self-established principles and rules.

I leaned toward the latter for the longest time, essentially alotting time and creating a set of rules under which I could use my Pness, then I just sort of lost control of the rules seemingly overnight.

• INTJs know what they know and what they don't know; INTPs just know a lot.

Definitely INTP for this one.

Are there any established descriptions or traits of an INTP under stress to compare all this to?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I don't know many but I found this:
http://www.halverson-law.com/intp.htm#weaknesses


Weaknesses
Weaknesses as negotiators

Under stress the INTP may have pain and distress that is new and not understood. No outlet for terrible internal pain and loss. May find it difficult to meet his spouse.
The INTP doesn't take care of himself enough - not tuned in to own personal needs. What INTP sees as fair may skip their own personal needs.
The INTP may become highly positional where intensely personal issues are involved or where his space is invaded.
They need to think before deciding.
It is hard for INTPs to communicate their feelings while negotiating.
They get lost if details are repetitious.
May have trouble concentrating on specifics.
They may have trouble coming to a final decision.
INTPs may put too many items on the agenda.
They may become hairsplitting in details.
If it gets too personal the INTP may withdraw.
If it gets too emotional the INTP may forget what was said.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

How would I false type for such a long period of time though, and in different circumstances (high school vs college)? *ideaflash-->* Could it have anything to do with the fact that I was a total misanthrope during that time period? I literally hated the world's guts and was completely self-serving, and then I made a few friends...

Yep, but more blame goes to the tests.

Though INTx can both easily be misanthropic. INTP is probably still the one with lower energy than INTJ in those times.

I find that both of these have a place in my thinking. Anything involving my career/school/ecology I'm very hesitant to make a decision, too caught up in the potential possibilities (i.e. when drawing conclusions and management implications from a research publication I cycle through all possibilities, which can take several weeks for a small 5 page publication). However, everything else (diet, housing, finances, transportation) is pretty much set in stone.

Sounds like conservatism. The things that make an impact you hesitate on, right?

I leaned toward the latter for the longest time, essentially alotting time and creating a set of rules under which I could use my Pness, then I just sort of lost control of the rules seemingly overnight

8-2am?

 

[The Habitat Doctor]

Yep, but more blame goes to the tests.

Though INTx can both easily be misanthropic. INTP is probably still the one with lower energy than INTJ in those times.


Sounds like conservatism. The things that make an impact you hesitate on, right?

Not really. It's more like an obsession to connect everything together to avoid criticism from my peers. "Your conclusions failed to address X, Y, and Z and your experimental design could use some help" is not something I'm fond of hearing. Plus I want to make sure I explore potential avenues for future research.

8-2am?

My Pness has a very busy life and is in high demand . More like between dinner (6) and bed (9) for years, then all of a sudden I'm pulling all nighters thinking about random stuff and wondering wtf happened.

 

[Montresor]

necro'd