What's your philosophy on money or wealth?

[onesteptwostep]

Do you have intrinsic beliefs about money or some philosophy on wealth?

This isn't fully developed or seriously thought out on my part, but one time I came to see money as something that is more like a fuel or a currency that manifests potential. But I don't mean it in terms of status or safisfaction or some kind of happiness, but more of a tool rather than something that provides a sense of worth in life.

Like, if you learn about the history of wealth, and how bank notes were created, and then how the dollar became the backer for all currencies around the world, it's curious to see how something that started out as being an "I owe you" become something that is percieved to have worth and value in it of itself. Like, I've been depressed enough to know that no amount of money can fix that state of mind or fix some kind of deliberating illness.

So when people claim that lots of money can bring them happiness or some kind of oppurtunity, what is it that most people want? What is the 'worth' that is behind wealth?

Is there a sense of worth that's universal for all humans?

 

[dr froyd]

security, freedom, resources, a nice home, etc. These are things humans want, on a genetic level

money is just a medium of exchange, that can be exchanged for these things.

once one gets into billionaire level wealth, it's about power and influence on a bigger scale, which some people crave

 

[Black Rose]

capitalism is a hard thing to destroy. money and its institutions never cess to exist.

technology and science drive the acquisition of resources. dialectical materialism.

 

[Cognisant]

Time is money.

Life is a cycle of working for money and exchanging that money for the necessities of life in order to continue living and continue working thus perpetuating the cycle.

In this system employees are not paid based on the value of their work to their employer but rather based on their market value relative to other employees. If you have uncommon skills you can be paid well but there's usually some kind of barrier to entry (like becoming a lawyer or doctor) hence why those skills are uncommon, or the job itself is dull, dirty, dangerous or demanding, hence why most people avoid it.

On the other hand as an employer and business owner your income is determined by the margin you product/service demands, how much of it you can provide and how many customers you can sell to and how much they'll buy. The great thing about this (for you) is that you keep the difference between the value your employees bring to your business and the market value of their labor. If you have some teenager fresh out of high school loading hoppers for a machine that produces your product then their labor is incredibly productive but the lion's share of the profit goes to you.

If you have a whole team of employees you can pay the most reliable one a little bit more to manage the others and then you barely need to be involved at all.

 

[Black Rose]

surplus wealth is the essence of capitalism.
we produce more food than needed food becomes cheap.
electricity is practically free. energy is free almost.
the cost-benefit is always reduced since the printing press made literacy universal.
yes to eat the majority must work a job but as slavery goes this is paradise.
people had no anesthetic and died of tooth decay at 40.
now people mostly ask what do I do with my free time.
boredom is the real issue, what is the meaning of life?
is this all there is, radicals want to bring down the system because often it's hard to accept that others have more than you do. but abundance is a feature, not a bug.

 

[birdsnestfern]

Personal Views:

Money gives you choices! Choices give you variety and good experiences. Experiences are what give you lasting memories, where you felt you helped influence your life. Energy exchange is what makes the world go around. Currency in money. Currency in awareness. Currency in electricity or quantum entanglement and energy.

I worked very hard to get it, and didn't hold on to it very long, but that never bothered me, its just energy that you exchange for something you chose and it gives you choices. I work hard to gain it, and move up to earn more.

What would I want? A place with rivers and fruit trees and nature. A homestead.

But Money is easy come, easy go. I think your genes dictate whether you are a natural saver or a natural spender.

Florence Scovel Shinn taught me to have faith (The game of life and how to play it) and thats my philosophy, its energy, and down to our very cells, we draw in what we resonate with clearest, and its just the way you think about it that brings more to you.

Sure, there are people who use money and power to destroy others, but I create my own reality.

I don't love corporate greed or most of the heirarchy related to business politics, but I love the idea of exchanging energy and thats all it is.

If I see wealth, I am happy for what they have, no jealousy about money or wealth, its good, something about it shows someone had mastery in the playground of life we live in.
And thats what life is, its a great big place for spirits to learn things in at many different levels and lessons.

But here is my philosophy, life is a game you play! So you have your authentic you spirit, but your physical you has to be a go getter a supporter for the inner worlds and outer worlds to survive.
And what you believe and say is how you catch and bring in. So align yourself with your ideal of health, wealth, happiness & joy.

Florence Scovel Shinn - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Money Supply Definition: Types and How It Affects the Economy

The money supply is the entire stock of a nation's currency and other liquid instruments that is in circulation at a given time.

www.investopedia.com

 

[Old Things]

I agree with much of your view @onesteptwostep.

From the last words of Bob Marley before he died, "Money cannot buy happiness."

 

[EndogenousRebel]

There is no direct relation from any type of currency to "value". Money is a means to an end. The connection between money and value happens when exchanged by people for something of "actual value".

This bridge creates a speculative gap that cannot be reconciled and is responsible for most of the financial system's thriving.

The only ideas that rival speculation's relevance in finance, would probably be interest on debt, which is still strongly tied to speculation.

Get speculation and humans together and you have systems where someone with enough money, say a billion dollars, can have a normal personal savings account and collect $10,000,000 a year on the %1 interest simply from holding the money at a bank, which is more than most people will earn in a life time.

The way most people build mass amounts of wealth is through debt. It's the easiest way, and with a motivated borrower, your returns will always come back positive.

I personally think that the best things in life are free. If they aren't we have to pay for them. Money helps with that.

 

[ZenRaiden]

How money work is not decided by individuals, not even wealthy ones.
Tomorrow I will wake up and money will still be there.
Value of money is thus not defined by my personal beliefs or philosophy.
Money and its value is defined by society and what its willing to give up for a piece of paper.
More secure a nation is the more complex financial sector it can have.
At the end of the day it all

 

[Daddy]

I don't know. Everyone donate your money to me so I can be wealthy and figure this out. Then once I know how it turns out, I can tell you what I believe about it.

 

[scorpiomover]

Do you have intrinsic beliefs about money or some philosophy on wealth?

This isn't fully developed or seriously thought out on my part, but one time I came to see money as something that is more like a fuel or a currency that manifests potential. But I don't mean it in terms of status or safisfaction or some kind of happiness, but more of a tool rather than something that provides a sense of worth in life.

Like, if you learn about the history of wealth, and how bank notes were created, and then how the dollar became the backer for all currencies around the world, it's curious to see how something that started out as being an "I owe you" become something that is percieved to have worth and value in it of itself.

It's used as a universal bartering medium. The basic assumption is that since money is used to purchase all goods and services, then with enough money, you can get hold of anything you want.

Like, I've been depressed enough to know that no amount of money can fix that state of mind or fix some kind of deliberating illness.

With money, you can buy SSRIs and pay for psychotherapy.

If you're contending that money cannot fix depression, then you're also suggesting that the SSRIs and psychotherapy you can buy with money, was not enough to solve your depression. Then you are saying that there are some needs that cannot be solved by anything that can be bought with money.

So when people claim that lots of money can bring them happiness or some kind of oppurtunity, what is it that most people want?

The belief that they can get anything they want, as long as they have enough money.

What is the 'worth' that is behind wealth?

Being happy with what you can have.

Is there a sense of worth that's universal for all humans?

Yes. But that comes from within.

 

[Cognisant]

Get speculation and humans together and you have systems where someone with enough money, say a billion dollars, can have a normal personal savings account and collect $10,000,000 a year on the %1 interest simply from holding the money at a bank, which is more than most people will earn in a life time.

The way most people build mass amounts of wealth is through debt. It's the easiest way, and with a motivated borrower, your returns will always come back positive.

Certainly you want your money to work for you but an investment that only returns 1% is abysmal, you want your returns to outpace inflation (otherwise you're losing money) and that one billion invested either in a high interest account or stocks represents your money being used by someone else to grow their business. It's easy, it's safe, but this isn't how you get rich this is how people who are rich stay rich, whereas if you invested 100k in establishing a coffee shop that business could recoup you investment in as little as five years (20k profit/year) and every year after you're getting a 20% return.

Of course if you don't have 100k you can loan that money with a 20% deposit and all going well you'll pay it off within five years, y'know assuming you have a good business plan and you found a good location for your business. One year later you have a deposit for your next 100k venture, now you have two coffee shops so you pay off your loan twice as fast, now you're getting 20% on 200k so you'll have the next 20k deposit in six months.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Wealth is good for everything, really. It can even buy love, though people deny it, by buying you the time to pursue a relationship and helping you become the most attractive version of yourself.

Wealth is worth as much as people need it to satisfy their basic or advanced needs and there's a well known hierarchy of needs. Money helps with every single need on that ladder. Even spirituality and self-actualization become easier with wealth.

Humans can't escape that they're restricted by physical resources such as material needs, space and time. Wealth gets you anything that's tangible directly and allows you the freedom or opportunities to find the intangible.

Crucially, wealth only matters in a context where we're surrounded by other people or other autonomous "lifeforms" that accept our wealth in trade. If humanity dies and there are only a few people left, then their wealth becomes pretty useless besides things that allow their continued survival or maybe self-replicating fabricators that can kickstart a technological industrial base anywhere.

I'd definitely want to own an army of autonomous robots capable of extracting resources and rebuilding a civilization, that would increase my safety , just like having a spaceship, making digital backups and clones of myself or colonizing a galaxy would, there's never enough raw resources or wealth, there's always a use for it.

My only belief is that wealth should be obtained ethically. That's the difference between people working honestly or building cryptocurrency scams. Honest people will never be excessively wealthy, but in these times they can make enough to have an 'ok' life which is fine by me. I'd prefer an honest 'ok' life than a dishonest billionaire life. Things may change though and it may turn out that honest work no longer gets you a good life, but I'm not gonna delve on that nonsense.

I already have a family, so now I need infinite wealth to secure its future, health, comfort and safety. I need wealth in different forms in case some of them depreciate. No amount of wealth is enough, because there's always a theoretical crisis that can require even more preparation or wealth to overcome so I am never going to stop making money.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Get speculation and humans together and you have systems where someone with enough money, say a billion dollars, can have a normal personal savings account and collect $10,000,000 a year on the %1 interest simply from holding the money at a bank, which is more than most people will earn in a life time.

The way most people build mass amounts of wealth is through debt. It's the easiest way, and with a motivated borrower, your returns will always come back positive.

Certainly you want your money to work for you but an investment that only returns 1% is abysmal, you want your returns to outpace inflation (otherwise you're losing money) and that one billion invested either in a high interest account or stocks represents your money being used by someone else to grow their business. It's easy, it's safe, but this isn't how you get rich this is how people who are rich stay rich, whereas if you invested 100k in establishing a coffee shop that business could recoup you investment in as little as five years (20k profit/year) and every year after you're getting a 20% return.

Of course if you don't have 100k you can loan that money with a 20% deposit and all going well you'll pay it off within five years, y'know assuming you have a good business plan and you found a good location for your business. One year later you have a deposit for your next 100k venture, now you have two coffee shops so you pay off your loan twice as fast, now you're getting 20% on 200k so you'll have the next 20k deposit in six months.

Fair enough, I doubt there are many people who have that much liquid cash all in one account to begin with. Even then, I might be losing out on the macroscale, but I was more pointing to the irony that I can live a normal urban lifestyle and ostensibly give most of my interest earned money away and still live a comfortable life while not spending a dime nor working or any of that. Yes of course, I'm losing at least another $10,000,000 relative to inflation.

There are a fair bit of companies that literally sell debt, the ones I'm familiar with being insurance finance companies. They'll paydown 4k-120k insurance policies upfront for the customer, then charge a premium that is payed throughout the year.

Right theses companies are still engaging in risk, and the APRs are only a little higher than most typical loans, but lets not underestimate how much everything is commodified. It's not just ignorant poor people who end up paying a lot for credit cards and the such, many small businesses also end up taking short and long term loans for all sorts of things. Very growth enabled business model around debt is possible is what I'm saying.

Though, I guess I do concede that you probably have to already be wealthy to want to engage in those risks. Still with established industries, like in insurance the finance company will talk directly with the insurance company, and the pay structure gives them plenty of action to recover any unpaid premium, so at worse people eat into your opportunity cost and a transaction breaks even.

 

[Hadoblado]

Money represents societally allocated, concentrated, and quantified agency.

Get the wealth you require for you and yours.

 

[onesteptwostep]

How money work is not decided by individuals, not even wealthy ones.
Tomorrow I will wake up and money will still be there.
Value of money is thus not defined by my personal beliefs or philosophy.
Money and its value is defined by society and what its willing to give up for a piece of paper.
More secure a nation is the more complex financial sector it can have.
At the end of the day it all
View attachment 6678

I think this is a good insight. Money is determined by society rather than individual people. But soceity is made up by people, so I guess what worth is, is determined by a cultural essense, what people think of to be as something good. I think ultimately we have a hard time answering this question because of a breakdown of cultural unity. The pluralism that the industral age brought, broke down the culture that we had.

We're living in a post-industral, post-societal age..

 

[onesteptwostep]

Being happy with what you can have.

Good point.

 

[Minuend]

I think wealth gives power, and wealth and power gives influence in society. I think if you are very wealthy, you're able to donate to movies with morals you agree with, artists etc, you are able to donate to politics and media. Etc. I think if you want true change in a capitalistic system, you need to hoard wealth to make it happen. But, I also think the people with good values are also people who wouldn't hoard wealth or use it to try to influence opinion and values in others. Which means the future will just be garbage for those who have values outside being selfishly rich and only caring about oneself

Other than that, wealth obviously make you able to survive in society and do whatever you want. On an individual basis, it's pretty good. At least when you die, you lived a life where you could buy all the stuff and have all the fun

 

[Black Rose]

Politically power is important but power comes from the agreement of individuals. You just need to get others on your side. So even with money, a cause is something that fights back. So it is important to propagandize. The ideas in people's minds, and their world view, is paramount to control of the masses. Money can buy the means to spread information but information has been democratized. 53 percent of people think the media in the US is false/misleading. money is not the sole means of power. It is just convenient to influence institutions. Independent thought is anathema to the elite rulers. But anyone can spread information now. All it takes is technology. To each person, they have their own agenda. The masses are irrational and can be manipulated. Dumb people believe conspiracy theories and Truth is hard to find. Lies spread and we all have unfalsifiable opinions. Money at second best is a tool but now absolutely in control. Resources can be attained if you are smart enough. Get people on your side and money is not an option.

 

[gilliatt]

The first question to answer. The rest is not important. The basic issue is only: Is man free? In mankind's history, capitalism is the only system that answers: Yes. All these other systems are physical force, they do not recognize individual rights, rights are violated only by means of force. So I do not believe in one man using physical force upon others.

 

[gilliatt]

I believe in a free economy. In a free economy, the supply of money and credit needed to finance business ventures is determined by objective economic factors. A banking system acts as a guardian of economic stability. Its an invisible hand principle.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I believe in a free economy.

Me too. But I don't just believe it. I know it.
We however live in an age where we are close to taxing cow farts.
I see no point buying a chocolate in a shop and paying a tax for it.

 

[dr froyd]

I believe in a free economy. In a free economy, the supply of money and credit needed to finance business ventures is determined by objective economic factors. A banking system acts as a guardian of economic stability. Its an invisible hand principle.

indeed, but unfortunately this doesn't exist anywhere currently, including nominally capitalist countries like US. We live in keynesian times, which means supply of credit and money is determined by the subjective views of central-bankers (who are better at amplifying economic volatility than actually suppressing it)