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Why INTp suck at school

sushi

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because school and education is heavily dependent on Si and left brain organization.

excessive paper handouts and organizing, keeping , deadlines,efficiency and time managment, remebering yesterday's information, routine...etc

yesterday's work and information has a strong influence and today and tommorow's progress. and if you are forgetful person and frequently miss out on details, you will suck
 

Artsu Tharaz

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I'm an INFJ, which is as un-Si as it gets (sort of), and I did well in school.

I had a harder time in university, but that's because I found it easy to slack off.
 

aiyanah

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"because I'm legit smarter than you and I can fucking prove it too, don't need no written test when I can run rings around you intellectually"
but rather than bring the entire existence of the education system into question I'll just play video games and post on forums, and watch cute cat videos and listen to dubstep.
 

Serac

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yeah, I guess hubris, and the consequent laziness resulting from hubris. So while all the other kids learn how to make an effort, you learn how to tell a cool story about why you don't need school. That works reasonably well for a while, before the learning curve gets too steep. But then you get to university, and then you have to start coming up with reeeeally clever shit like "this leaning process is too linear for me"

I was really lucky. When I got to university, I was good friends with an ISTP who showed me the value of making an effort – even when it doesn't feel like the learning process is tailored to your tastes and sensibilities.
 

baccheion

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I'd say it's a lack of motivation, ability to do things (especially when tedious), and interest. I don't think arrogance/hubris mattered. Are INTPs known to be that way? Such a trait may better apply to xxTJs.

IxFJs tend to have the highest high school GPA and xxTJs the highest college GPA. There is a bias toward those in the 115-125 IQ range, especially if they are also judgers. The curriculum is hard enough they don't get bored, they are smart enough to have an edge, and they aren't smart enough that others really notice. Corporations are also biased toward judgers in the 115-125 range (xxTJs and ExxJs have the highest salaries), as they are more capable while not being able to synthesize. That is, they make great parrots.

If in doubt during an interview, whether for college or a job, just pretend to be ENTJ.

Jness:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17605593

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886915002937

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02607476.2015.1080419?journalCode=cjet20
 

sushi

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wasting time and being an arrogant is an issue

but the point of this thread is devil is in the details.

If you are a forgetful person who does not remember deadlines, or leave things/notes behind and forget to pick it up, and have to redo it all over again, you wont have a good time in school. or your paperwork is disorganized, when you have several courses to do and frequently lose your notes, you will fail like hell.

I have a course where my teacher handed out shitload of paper notes and handouts and exercise , and the next lecture i cant find the notes/powerpoint where he left off, thats an example.

another example was I thought the deadline for the test for a particular course was next week Nov, when it turns out to be in this friday.

Thats why I always recommend the autodidact way of learning for us rather than follow the school's pace.
 

Niclmaki

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As an ENTP, I can only focus so long on things I have NO interest in. If I understood a thing. That was enough of that thing. No interest in learning it. (Understanding a thing, and learning a thing are quite different!)

It didn’t help that I also cared very little about marks. It was just binary. Pass or not. So I aimed for the minimum. I care not for prestige.
 

HDINTP

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As an ENTP, I can only focus so long on things I have NO interest in. If I understood a thing. That was enough of that thing. No interest in learning it. (Understanding a thing, and learning a thing are quite different!)

It didn’t help that I also cared very little about marks. It was just binary. Pass or not. So I aimed for the minimum. I care not for prestige.
Like understanding Mathematical concept and not willing to go through tedious process of solving concrete problems with that...? :cute:
 

baccheion

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Every xNTP in school should be working on developing and implementing a startup idea, even if not planning on going the distance.

Market finding, product development, marketing, sales, branding, personal selling, interacting with customers, reading books, improving awareness and education, improving appearance/aesthetics, health and fitness, fixing nutrient/hormone deficiencies, sleeping well, planning more efficient day, applying all learnings, potentially avoiding the rat race due to product success, a changed mindset upon graduating, an incubator period before it's showtime, attracting and retaining talent, biasing superfluous attention toward future success/security, partnering, avoiding embezzlement and theft, positioning, supplements/nootropics that increase motivation and stamina, iodine protocol, having a reason to wake up each morning, stringing yourself along with an endless list of reasons, packing schedule with relevant meaningful activities/actions, getting in the habit of not having others waste your time, so much drive and things to be interested you forget about sleeping, having things on mind even when doing something else keeps it buzzing/scanning/processing, thinking of or finding the next idea, stringing them along, becoming familiar to the point you don't think about the details of business/product creation, managing finances, presentation skills, nootropics/supplements that help with presentation, being able to improve and tailor appearance, automation/systematization/delegation, learning how to program (even if not planning on being software engineer), more perceptive eyes, etc..
 

Pizzabeak

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INTp is actually INTJ under the MBTI nomenclature, and they don't really suck at school on average. ENTJ are more common and do well, on average. INTJ can just be lazy or a slacker, sometimes. I don't think they suck at school. They are more practical.
 

Niclmaki

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As an ENTP, I can only focus so long on things I have NO interest in. If I understood a thing. That was enough of that thing. No interest in learning it. (Understanding a thing, and learning a thing are quite different!)

It didn’t help that I also cared very little about marks. It was just binary. Pass or not. So I aimed for the minimum. I care not for prestige.
Like understanding Mathematical concept and not willing to go through tedious process of solving concrete problems with that...? :cute:
Lol yes. Exactly like that.
 

sushi

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your past work , notes and memory affects your present progress, don't keep losing the old work and notes you did yesterday and forget to bring textbooks to class. that is already si enough. If you keep a good reccord, you will do at least 15-20% better.
 

QuickTwist

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Yes, Ni Doms have an immense difficulty in monetizing anything.

Putting aside that Jung could have been Ti Dom, He had a heavy dose of Ni and was immensely brilliant and his wealth didn't measure up to his wealth. He didn't become "Popular" until long after the MBTI was invented.
 

sushi

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Yes, Ni Doms have an immense difficulty in monetizing anything.

Putting aside that Jung could have been Ti Dom, He had a heavy dose of Ni and was immensely brilliant and his wealth didn't measure up to his wealth. He didn't become "Popular" until long after the MBTI was invented.
we are talking about schooling work, attendence and academic performance, not money

money and business is different from school although Si tards still suck at memorizing where you put past documents and notes/ what you did yesterday and being absent minded in the Si heavy working enviroment. Its like duties of a secretary.
 

QuickTwist

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Yes, Ni Doms have an immense difficulty in monetizing anything.

Putting aside that Jung could have been Ti Dom, He had a heavy dose of Ni and was immensely brilliant and his wealth didn't measure up to his wealth. He didn't become "Popular" until long after the MBTI was invented.
we are talking about schooling work, attendence and academic performance, not money

money and business is different from school although Si tards still suck at memorizing where you put past documents and notes/ what you did yesterday and being absent minded in the Si heavy working enviroment. Its like duties of a secretary.
Uh... you think there is no relation between academic success and being able to monetize something? What's your basis for that?
 

sushi

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monetization is business, marketing, and entrepreneurship, academic success is getting top degrees, getting into ivy league and earning phd? I don't know?
 

QuickTwist

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monetization is business, marketing, and entrepreneurship, academic success is getting top degrees, getting into ivy league and earning phd? I don't know?
Sure, but the same things that make someone academically successful is what makes someone able to monetize things all things considered. I was actually agreeing with your premise that Ni Doms have difficulty with some things because they takes things more open to interpretation. If you want to make money or get a top degree, what you need to do is put your head down and study and put in the work. People who are extremely intuitive have a lot of difficulty sticking to a schedule.

The single best trait for lifetime success in terms of what is "Normal" success is conscientiousness, and you need that to be at the top anyways. People who are more intuitive and creative (I.E. have low conscientiousness and high openness) have immense difficulty making much success out of their life because it's so dang hard to monetize anything they might do because they have no stick-to-it-ive-ness.
 

Minute Squirrel

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I've never met a Ni dom who did poorly in school. Not all of them did great but the lowest grade I've witnessed one getting was a b- average.

I of course don't know all(or most) Ni doms but I've moved around a lot and have probably met more than average.
 

QuickTwist

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I've never met a Ni dom who did poorly in school. Not all of them did great but the lowest grade I've witnessed one getting was a b- average.

I of course don't know all(or most) Ni doms but I've moved around a lot and have probably met more than average.
Most people don't know what Ni actually is..
 

QuickTwist

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<lol
 

Niclmaki

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I’m sorry. That video invaded my mind as went from reading “Ni” as “N.I” and switched to “Ni!”
 

sushi

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monetization is business, marketing, and entrepreneurship, academic success is getting top degrees, getting into ivy league and earning phd? I don't know?
Sure, but the same things that make someone academically successful is what makes someone able to monetize things all things considered. I was actually agreeing with your premise that Ni Doms have difficulty with some things because they takes things more open to interpretation. If you want to make money or get a top degree, what you need to do is put your head down and study and put in the work. People who are extremely intuitive have a lot of difficulty sticking to a schedule.

The single best trait for lifetime success in terms of what is "Normal" success is conscientiousness, and you need that to be at the top anyways. People who are more intuitive and creative (I.E. have low conscientiousness and high openness) have immense difficulty making much success out of their life because it's so dang hard to monetize anything they might do because they have no stick-to-it-ive-ness.
conscietiousness is rule compliance and obedience to an external framework, it is not the same as self motivation and drive, although they sometimes coverge.
 

QuickTwist

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monetization is business, marketing, and entrepreneurship, academic success is getting top degrees, getting into ivy league and earning phd? I don't know?
Sure, but the same things that make someone academically successful is what makes someone able to monetize things all things considered. I was actually agreeing with your premise that Ni Doms have difficulty with some things because they takes things more open to interpretation. If you want to make money or get a top degree, what you need to do is put your head down and study and put in the work. People who are extremely intuitive have a lot of difficulty sticking to a schedule.

The single best trait for lifetime success in terms of what is "Normal" success is conscientiousness, and you need that to be at the top anyways. People who are more intuitive and creative (I.E. have low conscientiousness and high openness) have immense difficulty making much success out of their life because it's so dang hard to monetize anything they might do because they have no stick-to-it-ive-ness.
conscietiousness is rule compliance and obedience to an external framework, it is not the same as self motivation and drive, although they sometimes coverge.
Conscientiousness is the dynamic for goal orientation. Sorry, you are wrong. You are thinking of Te.
 

Anthony Wong

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In a nutshell, INTPs just don't do well in a conventional school setting. This is mainly because we think differently
 

Polaris

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I didn't suck at school, but school really sucked :(
 

Curlijessi

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I would have to strongly disagree that INTPs suck at school because I didnt! I never really studied though. And upon testing, my Ni was very high when i took the MBTI several times. Yes I hated certain subjects. I just figured out how to do well on multiple choice tests. I only read ceratin exerpts and important parts in the book and I got mostly As and Bs. When I got to med school, then i really had to study for the first time. By the way, Im a physician assistant. Im just super motivated and was very interested in all topics science and medicine. (except chemistry).
 

CatGoddess

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I find the thread title amusing because INTp=socionics version of the INTJ. Is that just me? Probably.

High school is extremely easy; you pretty much have to be either a) literally brain dead or b) so unmotivated you just decide not to do the work to fail. I'm trying to actually do well (trying to go to decent college), though, so I do put in a fair amount of effort (all advanced/honor/whatever your country calls them, all A's, etc.)

Then again, possible get-out-of-jail-free card for other thread participants: I might not be an INTP after all? The probable INTPs I do know:

  1. Is smart, but failing everything while he puts his time and energy into playing piano and perfecting his ping-pong game
  2. Is smart and gets decent grades without studying, but does worse than me out of sheer carelessness (forgets to write a "+c" after integrating, for instance)
  3. Already graduated; is some sort of Slavic genius dude who did 0 homework and made graphing calculator programs during class, but understood everything perfectly on every single test and thus ended up with B's. Currently studies comp sci at a local university.
I doubt every INTP is bad at school, but for those who are: it's because you don't care enough. Even if you attribute it to "carelessness" or "inability to focus", you can TRY HARDER to counteract if you truly want to (which you don't). Take kid #2, for instance. If he really wanted to, he could double check his answers more meticulously. If this made him too slow on calc tests, he could do the practice problems and study for the tests so that he could answer the questions more quickly and efficiently.

I like these three people. It's not as if I'm offended by their study habits, but I'm just saying that it's a choice. Don't make that choice if you don't want to, but don't go blaming your "INTP-based" academic failures on anyone but yourself.
 

sushi

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whoever say ney must be a closet INTJ, because they enjoy working within deadlines and keep everything organized and efficient. submit things or time or get penalty enviroment.

and i stress Si not Ni, because not losing the paper handouts and study notes distributed, by teacher , keep it in right order without disorganizatioin is Si even though you may not bother to look or revise it after class is over.
 

sushi

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keep your notes organized and summarize what the teacher said every lecture and you dont even study.
 

sushi

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40%- 60% of the time I am thinking about something else when i am in a lecture/listen to teacher, i dont know if its true for other people.
 

moody

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I got yelled at a lot in school for asking "dumb questions." I was just never a favorite because teachers though I was trying to challenge them. I wasn't. I NEVER was. I was just asking a freaking question. I often was told as a small child that I shouldn't act like I was better than anyone else because I wasn't. I NEVER THOUGHT THAT.
I was liked more when I learned to just never ever talk or ask questions. I always got good grades, but not due to following their poor instruction. I figured it out myself, my way. And I got good grades. SO THERE, PUBLIC EDUCATION, YOU POOP YOURSELVES
 

lightfire

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I got yelled at a lot in school for asking "dumb questions." I was just never a favorite because teachers though I was trying to challenge them. I wasn't. I NEVER was. I was just asking a freaking question. I often was told as a small child that I shouldn't act like I was better than anyone else because I wasn't. I NEVER THOUGHT THAT.
I was liked more when I learned to just never ever talk or ask questions. I always got good grades, but not due to following their poor instruction. I figured it out myself, my way. And I got good grades. SO THERE, PUBLIC EDUCATION, YOU POOP YOURSELVES

Where I was born, asking questions is considered dumb and stupid and worthy of judging. But being raised in the US where asking questions is encouraged in school. So I grew up to become an inquisitive person with tiny bit of guilt.
 

Serac

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Have zero respect for authority but utmost respect for the subject and the craft. That was my strategy in school and everywhere else since. The fail kids conflated their disdain for teachers with disdain for knowledge.
 

moody

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Have zero respect for authority but utmost respect for the subject and the craft. That was my strategy in school and everywhere else since. The fail kids conflated their disdain for teachers with disdain for knowledge.
That is exactly how I survived.
 

sushi

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Have zero respect for authority but utmost respect for the subject and the craft. That was my strategy in school and everywhere else since. The fail kids conflated their disdain for teachers with disdain for knowledge.
well authority always force you to perform and follow their standards, meter stick. its hard to dissassociate yourself from such things when you are working/studying in such an enviroment.
 
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