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Insanity "Commune"

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This thread is becoming better than I ever expected. :D All that's left is to figure out airfare and start building houses. :eek:
That clears it up a bit. Chemical level.

It would be a difference between an over/under excitation state and over excitation that results in a collapse/release. I find it similar, comparing the tempo of signal release that makes time "feel" faster/slower and extreme gravity/energy scenario where time also becomes distorted.

add 2: You smoke and your mind gets denser as you relax, you excite and it's like blowing your thoughts, they storm across the space and start to form equilibrium by crushing and collapsing.

this could be too much of an interpretation, but who said we are sane here?
You just compared cognition to the atom. Does the reverse apply to all structures that take the form of atoms and display excitability (in quantum terms)?
 

Ex-User (9086)

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This thread is becoming better than I ever expected. :D All that's left is to figure out airfare and start building houses. :eek:
You just compared cognition to the atom. Does the reverse apply to all structures that take the form of atoms and display excitability (in quantum terms)?

I have yet to compile and comprehend quantum terms, so incomplete view is high.

I didn't expect this to have such a completing match:
Fundamental Interactions

Gravitation:----------Ego mass
Electromagnetism:-Excitation level
Weak Force:---------Decay, Creation, Synthesis of Ideas
Strong Interaction:-Consistency, Symmetry, Binding of cognition
 

crippli

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You're not intruding if we're all nuts, right?

The apparently sudden shift towards medication is something I'd cringe at. Schizophrenia is widely (and wrongly, imho) believed to be the "worst" sort of mental illness because it disconnects one from "reality." Whereas normal individuals are, imho, disconnected from possibility. This perception of schizophrenia frequently leads to a push for medication.

The amount of time she took to evaluate you is a good thing, because one wants to be certain in such a strong diagnosis. However, so long as you remain lucid and articulate, I'd be hesitant. Perhaps a second (or third) opinion would be useful, and do your research and learn the mechanisms of action for each medication option before you take them.
It is surprising. Doesn't bother me overly much. Because things are actually better these days. So if I have a mild form of this, I don't want my delusions and stuff to go away. They are specific, and do not interfere in my regular rational thought on matters. They make my days nice. Like you guys see on here, I am mostly well grounded and apply well thought through logic? I express myself much better through text then irl. I tend to need time to think things through.

I won't take the meds. It is out of the question. The only thing I'm willing to try is amphetamine. To sharpen up my attention somewhat. It needs to be clean legal amphetamine. I doubt I will get the diagnosis, i'll twarf this if needs be. Sz was what she wanted to talk about, when I brought up the different possibilities to see what she was interested in discussing. It's typical, if they suspect paranoid sz. Then they put together resources. Not to help me, but to map an potential threat. A loner, few friends, a ticking bomb? I even think it's funny, but sad, feel mostly sorry for them. She mentioned my loose connections. She could just do PTSD and be done with it, it would fit with everything. But seems they got other ideas, and ptsd would be to big of a bite to swallow for them,would have implications).

I got a proper challenge ahead of me now. I do feel in control and understand the situations, so I think they should listen more to what I say, instead of obsessing over their diagnoses, so I will persevere, with proper stoic endurance.

 

nebnobla

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I'll try to respond tomorrow; trying to ease my way back into the more complicated discussions.
 
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I got a proper challenge ahead of me now. I do feel in control and understand the situations, so I think they should listen more to what I say, instead of obsessing over their diagnoses, so I will persevere, with proper stoic endurance.
Perseverance didn't work out well for McMurphy in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, demonstrating that they can push very hard if they want to, due to their position. It's difficult to resist. I think the key is to demonstrate that you're in control and reassure them that you won't hesitate to seek their help if you start to lose it; give them some false hope of eventually exercising their power. It got me out... :D
I'll try to respond tomorrow; trying to ease my way back into the more complicated discussions.
All you've got to do is connect my model to yours, and then
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
:eek: :eek: :eek:
:eek: :eek:
:eek:
:storks:
:storks: :storks:
:balance: :balance: :balance: :balance: :balance: :balance:
:balance: :balance: :balance: :balance:
:balance: :balance:
:balance:
:phear:
:phear: :phear: :phear:
:phear: :phear: :phear: :phear: :phear: :phear: :phear: :phear: :phear:
:phear: :phear: :phear:
:phear:
:cat:
:cat: :cat:
:cat: :cat: :cat:
:cat: :cat:
:smoker: :smoker:
:smoker: :smoker:
:smoker: :smoker:
:elephant:
My emoticon-filled spoiler experience can't happen until after you build on your existing model, based on your spoiler experience, and then tell me all about it. :D

Jump in. The water will be cold; there will be shrinkage and shock. But it gets warmer as you get used to it, and eventually you'll find yourself on a tropical island if you swim far enough.

*EDIT: From this post
EDIT: Perhaps someone's general understanding of things may be inhibited by the fact that they based their ideas in their structure off of contradictory founding concepts.
No! :D When a foundation is built on contradictory concepts, it is stronger! The key is to arrange them in a manner so that they no longer contradict; or, rather, contradict in a stable manner, as there are no true contradictions:
[bimgx=600]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/St_Louis_night_expblend.jpg[/bimgx]

If not, the structure is prone to cleavage:
b3a5e99bd6baff2cb15b9c2315fd88be.jpg


Here's the law you're particularly strong on.
When you come across something that doesn't fit, don't discard it, save it for later. :D
 

Polaris

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Well I used to integrate everything that sounded good in my mind into my grand structure; I was one of those kids that would be spelled by the sounds of words in sentences, e.g. watching "Into The Wild" and thinking that it was all good substance, that it all made sense. I've written many of notebooks of thoughts, just spontaneously writing for no reason. It was bullshit. I realized that just because something sounds legitimate does not imply it's correct. In fact, the sound of something should impose absolutely no weight on the logical merit of the statement. I also realized that these ideas I was spitting out were very much inconsistent with the patterns and trends that I've deduced from nature (that's how I validate things somethings), and thus it would justify my scepticism of an idea's logical merit. Every book I wrote was flawed; after going through them years later and identifying the flaws, I was left with little more than I had begun with, but it was the most coherent and sensible thing I had ever produced.

My truth is, that every INTP is doomed to produce huge amounts of random thoughts, about everything. This is like evolution creating a huge amount of random different designs based on spontaneous, instantaneous environmental factors; Of course, a few small percentage (much less than 1%) of those designs are in correspondence with nature, and the rest die off. This is analogous (not identical) to filtering legitimate thoughts--It is your responsibility to impose a selection on your ideas, as you are prone to come up with all sorts of ideas that seem to make sense, e.g. in a microsystem, although may not be consistent with the overall structure. If the incorrect ideas get into your concept map, and new ideas build dependencies on those ideas that may be incorrect, well--then your in big trouble. I could not imagine going back and revolutionizing foundational concepts, it's much easier to perform maintenance on the "outer-ring" concepts in the grand concept map, i.e. the ones that other ideas are not dependent on.

Your going to produce lot's of bullshit ideas in your life, there is no one on earth that has perfect thoughts every second. With INTPs, sometimes we can think an entire train of thought without analyzing it's logical merit. When I'm unsure about somethings logical merit, I look at the patterns that I swear by and stay "close to the border" of my grand concept map, i.e. my thoughts are not too farfetched or far-gone with respect to everything else I believe I know for sure. This also allows me to identify contradictions, inconsistencies, lies, etc, coming from other entities, in a second.

I am a scientist; I believe things "happen to be" in nature. I.e. I am an animal and I over-think, no polarity here; the ability to think is an object of being an animal, they are not on the same level of logical hierarchy. I've always been an animal, or rather, "a union of segregated regions with differing proportionalities of nanomachines that collectively operate a vehicle, fuelled by the cannibalization of other sorts of these unions." This is how I think of an animal--I don't think of it as just one thing, I must understand this thing on the most fundamental levels such that it is consistent with everything else, i.e. only using common factors can things be effectively compared such that legitimate logical concepts may be deduced. The first paragraph of my post here talks about this animal thing:

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=18286

And my understanding of emotions are clear--they are merely manifestations of differing proportionalities of chemicals (structures, i.e. 3D shapes..) in the brain based on stimuli picked up by senses and interpreted by the brain (a computer), etc. I believe any other interpretation may put them on a pedestal, i.e. put them too high on the order of logical hierarchy on concepts that describe the universe, which may lead to incoherent models.

And I am plagued in angst; but I feel like I am on the downhill now. For years I held an angst that was a product of my thoughts and ideas, but I feel like they are crystallizing now; it's beautiful. It's my meaning of life. When every idea is crystallized, when everything is entirely predictable and ordered, entropy will cease to exist, and time will become meaningless. I think my point of life is to stop time in this manner; mind you, it is a futile thing--our brain may not possess the processing power to do so, and even if a supercomputer figured it all out, well, then it probably means that we are in a simulation that is moderated by a similar supercomputer, which means we are in a permanent prison; a program, not a reality.

I was going to add something to this thread, but after reading this I'm feeling sort of gagged with a mixture of surprise, recognition and delight.

I have nothing more to add...
 

crippli

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I think the key is to demonstrate that you're in control and reassure them that you won't hesitate to seek their help if you start to lose it; give them some false hope of eventually exercising their power. It got me out... :D
They offered me a 'follow up contact'. I said a support contact would be nice. To do social things with. But no. That was an ordinary person. A follow up contact was what I needed, they had medical training... They have been on me with this for a month. I've said no so far. But maybe I'll switch things around, and even let them see my apartment. Basically, make them trust me. Bake a nice cake, produce good feelings in them. Take them to bed. The main problem is probably that I've been annoyed. Last week I told the 'follow up contact' that I had memories, I've met her a few times, just to talk. Things I did, that where so bad they had to be dreams, or else id be in jail. She:"Oh, what did you do?"
Me: "No, I can't tell you. Since I am walking freely it would have to be a dream, But it feels real, it's a memory."
 
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They offered me a 'follow up contact'. I said a support contact would be nice. To do social things with. But no. That was an ordinary person. A follow up contact was what I needed, they had medical training... They have been on me with this for a month. I've said no so far.
It sounds like a lot of this is beyond your control. Is this true?
But maybe I'll switch things around, and even let them see my apartment. Basically, make them trust me. Bake a nice cake, produce good feelings in them. Take them to bed. The main problem is probably that I've been annoyed.
Trust is a good weapon. Trust me. ;)

(For the record, cake and/or taking them to bed is a bit over the top.) :D
Last week I told the 'follow up contact' that I had memories, I've met her a few times, just to talk. Things I did, that where so bad they had to be dreams, or else id be in jail.

She:"Oh, what did you do?"
Me: "No, I can't tell you. Since I am walking freely it would have to be a dream, But it feels real, it's a memory."
I think you're giving them the impression that you're paranoid/delusional without being aware of it (it=being paranoid/delusional).

My approach to answering that would have been something like "Well, I experienced X but I don't know why." This effectively replaces "can't" with "don't want to." If you take it further, with something like "I'm not complaining about it because I don't think it's a problem, I just want to understand it," then that even allows you to tell them exactly what you experienced, while keeping their hands tied because it shows that you're aware and in control. "How does it work?" If you ask questions about anything but you, then you're in charge of the interaction. This includes their thoughts, your experiences... anything you can label that isn't you.

What this also opens the door for, is the opportunity to build trust by thanking them; replacing the cake with "Thanks. I think I understand that now" which shows that you're handling the problem yourself, and doing it effectively. That is, if you agree with what they're saying. If they're explaining how what you're experiencing is a delusion or hallucination and it's not, then be prepared to defend it.
 

Ex-User (9086)

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It seems that you play your game and give them answers you like, however they interpret them however they like, in this case with memory/dreams they assume delusions.

If you find yourself tired just play their game a bit. You already know what would please them and what would make them leave you. Use general terms, avoid discussing your personality in a "I feel lost" way.

They seem to feel the power you give them when they ask questions and they are pleased when you respond as they imagine you should.

Respond as they would imagine a paranoid person would never do. Assertive, in control etc. From what I read of THD's post he proposes the same approach.
 

Brontosaurie

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what is this binary effect? different insanities produce different eccentricities, afaict.
 
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what is this binary effect? different insanities produce different eccentricities, afaict.
This would have been so much easier for me to answer if I were in the same state as I was when I wrote the OP. :D Some aspects will be lost to the ages, but here ya go:

Sanity tends to be defined by individuals in terms of "what isn't something I can relate to." This is the applicability to the realm of function and behavior. If it can't be related to, it is ignored or attacked.

"Me" tends to be a product of one's environment; looking glass self, etc. So there's a metaconformity construct that defines sanity on a larger scale. The proportion of individuals who can relate to a single individual creates a gradient when all individuals are combined. If many people relate to you, then you're not insane.

One can deem themselves completely sane and relate to many, many others, yet be completely insane if others cannot relate to them.

A "commune" of such sane insane individuals might be the means to achieve parity of force on that larger group scale, solving the problem of a dominant group in power ruling over a less organized subdominant group.
 

Ex-User (9086)

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So you described difference of social norms and perception/judgement pairs as a conflict of majority/minority. So this applies to taboo, norms, law, everything that is controlled by majorities.
 

crippli

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It sounds like a lot of this is beyond your control. Is this true?
Indeed. They are making decisions without my approval :confused:

Trust is a good weapon. Trust me. ;)
Noted.

(For the record, cake and/or taking them to bed is a bit over the top.) :D
I think you're giving them the impression that you're paranoid/delusional without being aware of it (it=being paranoid/delusional).
They may just mistake intpness for insanity(or the 'ness that I may exhibit). I've seen that others have had challenges with this as well.

My approach to answering that would have been something like "Well, I experienced X but I don't know why." This effectively replaces "can't" with "don't want to." If you take it further, with something like "I'm not complaining about it because I don't think it's a problem, I just want to understand it," then that even allows you to tell them exactly what you experienced, while keeping their hands tied because it shows that you're aware and in control. "How does it work?" If you ask questions about anything but you, then you're in charge of the interaction. This includes their thoughts, your experiences... anything you can label that isn't you.
I understand this. But there are rules. I keep it simple and to the point. I idea is to more easily make myself understood. My desires and needs that are not fulfilled.

What this also opens the door for, is the opportunity to build trust by thanking them; replacing the cake with "Thanks. I think I understand that now" which shows that you're handling the problem yourself, and doing it effectively. That is, if you agree with what they're saying. If they're explaining how what you're experiencing is a delusion or hallucination and it's not, then be prepared to defend it.
What I need to do is to realize I am their boss(as I pay their salary). And when you have people working for you. Motivation, joy in work, inspire creativity etc are essential aspects of having your employees perform to their full capacity. So yes, there will be something along the lines you suggest. As I have not been all that satisfied yet. It is my responsibility to tend to this fire. So that it proves the warmth I long for.

It seems that you play your game and give them answers you like, however they interpret them however they like, in this case with memory/dreams they assume delusions.

If you find yourself tired just play their game a bit. You already know what would please them and what would make them leave you. Use general terms, avoid discussing your personality in a "I feel lost" way.

They seem to feel the power you give them when they ask questions and they are pleased when you respond as they imagine you should.

Respond as they would imagine a paranoid person would never do. Assertive, in control etc. From what I read of THD's post he proposes the same approach.
I do feel lost. Hence why I use these people to explain to me things I struggle to understand. Allegedly they should have a firm grasp on these things, and be able to teach me. I'll see. I do not play games though, other then what everyone does. All I tell them is the truth as I experience things.
 
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