Any link between INTP personalities, or general Intellectuals and Depression.

[Forensic1999]

It has many times crossed my mind, the link between sorrow and intelligence. I may be a bit out of my league here.
But it seems to me, that highly intelligent and/or successful people tend to be closely linked to some kind of mental illness. As if the more knowledge you have, the bigger price you pay. In no sense have we seen someone "highly" intelligent who led a perfect life. Therefore perfection cannot be obtained by intelligence. It is not the answer.
The most authentic, clever, artistic, and sensitive individuals seem to always have some kind of heavy weight hung on their shoulders. Something they may hide well, but its there. In their eyes, their demeanor. And I don't mean the daily burdens of life every person faces. I mean something bigger, something no one else sees. A weight only that individual can know because it is the price of what they poses. Be it intelligence, creativity, ability, etc.
My question is, what do you think of this? Is there a link? Or do you think it's a completely random coincidence?

 

[Kormak]

Possibly. I'm a ENTP apparently and I have become a downright cynical asshole. People often deeply disappoint and the more I understand about the world the darker my perspective seems to get ... a knight in sour armor, clad in plate made from pure cynicism at best.

My estimation is that...every man ever got a statue made of him was one kind of a son of a bitch or another.— Malcolm Reynolds

 

[Rebis]

One prevalent theme in any model assessing intelligence is critical thought: Analysing problems and identifying flaws in a person's reasoning or a model. If someone is critical they are pre-disposed to discovering more "errors" with the world itself.

Without critical thought people just accept and appraise the world around them. Have you ever seen locals post on hospitality pages on facebook? Some average, let's say low iq 40 year old couple will go to a restaurant:

"Food was amazing, best food ever, 5/5 stars"

2 months later they do the same thing. They go to another restaurant

"Service was top class, best food I ever tasted will be back, 10/10"

They lack critical thought in this scenario because they have little idea of what makes food good, they just go by a primitive taste pallet: Is it smothered in fats? Yummy. Someone with critical thought i.e. they're intelligent, will recognise the pattern between fats and taste and possibly the lack of flavour complexity in the dish itself, and not be "wowed" everytime they get food, proclaiming it to be "the best ever!"

Intelligent people question their surroundings to a degree that people of lower intelligence wouldn't. People with less critical thought also have less foresight because they don't pick up on these patterns, as a result they can be easily brought to joy from surprises because they expect very little. They lack the imagination for foresight.

 

[Forensic1999]

Dang, hit that on the nail.

 

[Forensic1999]

Thinking from an analytical viewpoint it makes perfect sense. Hence why the average intelligence could not perceive or fathom more than just a life who's purpose is happiness.

 

[Forensic1999]

Possibly. I'm a ENTP apparently and I have become a downright cynical asshole. People often deeply disappoint and the more I understand about the world the darker my perspective seems to get ... a knight in sour armor, clad in plate made from pure cynicism at best.

My estimation is that...every man ever got a statue made of him was one kind of a son of a bitch or another.— Malcolm Reynolds

I think I come across as an asshole sometimes as well. But I just think of it as being honest and direct.

 

[Rebis]

Possibly. I'm a ENTP apparently and I have become a downright cynical asshole. People often deeply disappoint and the more I understand about the world the darker my perspective seems to get ... a knight in sour armor, clad in plate made from pure cynicism at best.

My estimation is that...every man ever got a statue made of him was one kind of a son of a bitch or another.— Malcolm Reynolds

I'm amoral to most, I only appear as an asshole if someone has insulted me. And that's more so I'm not going to be patient with someone that's insulted me:

"You're getting dog food tonight, better eat it all up."

 

[onesteptwostep]

Most intelligent people are those who were unplugged from their domestic culture during development, meaning there is less of a social network which leaves him or her more vulnerable to loneliness. But depression isn't something that's rare these days. I would link depression more with economics rather than intelligence, for the general population. INTPs on the other hand I would imagine to be a bit more depressed due to identity issues rather than intelligence. INTPs often seek knowledge to solve problems of identity, rather than trying to assess and engage with their environment.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

This might factor into how and why.

I believe that in some sense of suffering influences intelligence, maybe even if it's not an accurate perception relative to those who have suffered more or less. Temperament, be it from environment or genetics, is what determines our self perceptions, from which the MBTI places ones type. One who suffers is apt to avoid it, and therefor requiring that they understand more about how reality works.

(this isn't universal) The higher on this pyramid the more resources and brain power is needed. I would assume that they are seen as smart because they are so used to being in the upper half of the pyramid. This might be why some of the best artist have been tortured souls. Granted, it would also apply to someone who is driven (not associated with intp) or enthralled/interested in the world (sorta associated). In any case it's an act of bravery, they're the fucking soldiers of mankind if you ask me.

 

[Rebis]

Revisiting this there's also a correlation with articulation and intelligence, which could be a conjunction of evaluating someone intelligence: Some people don't even recognise they're depressed, they've been so absorbed by the negativity surrounding their brain through poor cognitive performance relating to mood, inflammatory diet and so on that they may just accept this is reality and not even conceive something's wrong. They may just think they're in a bad mood but never investigate why like they implicitly feel depressed with the world, that's just the way it is for them.

 

[Rebis]

Most intelligent people are those who were unplugged from their domestic culture during development, meaning there is less of a social network which leaves him or her more vulnerable to loneliness. But depression isn't something that's rare these days. I would link depression more with economics rather than intelligence, for the general population. INTPs on the other hand I would imagine to be a bit more depressed due to identity issues rather than intelligence. INTPs often seek knowledge to solve problems of identity, rather than trying to assess and engage with their environment.

Good point, you see a lot of these arguments circulating around intelligence, "the troubled genius" what about "economically deprived individual in a consumerist world?"

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Depression is a cluster of symptoms used as a tool of diagnosis. The root causes of the illness could vary widely. The rise in depression is mainly among younger age groups who have been the guinea pigs to just about every telecommunications advancement and their commercialization. It's sad really, it's used as a baby sitter these days. Humans weren't meant to be stimulated all the time, now everyone is a dopamine junkie. I should exclude "senseless suffering" from my post above.

 

[Kormak]

Most intelligent people are those who were unplugged from their domestic culture during development, meaning there is less of a social network which leaves him or her more vulnerable to loneliness. But depression isn't something that's rare these days. I would link depression more with economics rather than intelligence, for the general population. INTPs on the other hand I would imagine to be a bit more depressed due to identity issues rather than intelligence. INTPs often seek knowledge to solve problems of identity, rather than trying to assess and engage with their environment.

Outside of health-related issues such as proper nutrition, sun exposure, and sleep a lot of ppl nowadays are disconnected from their communities, from other people. Our species is tribal, we are meant to interact with a smaller group of people, Dunbar's number. Even as an introvert this is rather significant for wellbeing.

In my case for example, I don't go to church because I'm not religious, I can't relate to people around me, I'm not part of any groups in my community. I don't even know my neighbors. I'm basically socially isolated, despite being physically free.

From my understanding, this is basically so for a lot of ppl. We are atomized, disconnected in an age where I can have a conversation with ppl on the other side of the world.

I think it is because of ease of access and systems being in place, where you and I don't have to rely on our community for survival.

Social atomization causes depression.

 

[moody]

@Forensic1999
We don't take the cake for having the most depressive suicidal people, but we do have the most smokers and psychedelically users!
You have a valid point. Many of the forefathers sociologists were severely depressed, and committed suicide. Many of the world's most famous artists committed suicide.

Despite connections you may see between intelligence/awareness and depression, I believe it's ignorant to consider one the cause for the other.

There are a few questions you must as yourself before drawing the conclusion that intelligence leads to depression: What definition of intelligence are you going with? What sampling of people are you considering when you see this correlation? Does your own depressive states come from having insight, or is the insight you have stemmed from being predisposed to depression?

This isn't a cause and effect scenario. There are so many factors that contribute towards our state of being that asking the question "does a cause b?" only heads you biased answers.

Take artists, for example: mental disorders are represented more in the creative fields than they are in other industries. Does this indicate that people who are more "creative" are more likely to have a mental illness? No; on the contrary, most artists who suffer from a mental disorder became artistic as a way to cope with their experiences. The uniqueness of their thinking processes and experiances can give them an added depth that makes them more creative than the average Joe.

Likewise, a depressive mindset can give you certain insights you wouldn't otherwise consider if you felt secure all the time. The way NTPs cope with these moods or states is by over-analyzing. When you're depressed and your someone who's identity is somewhat centered around your intelligence, it's only natural to relate the two as being connected, or to rationalize your suffering to have stemmed from your deep thinking. But depressed thinking is, by definition, not rationale. It will force you to think more about yourself and the way you feel so that you don't fall apart.

I know this, because medication I take for an immune problem completely changes my frame of mind, and how I think about things. When it wears off, I go back to having a more self-destructive thinking process. It doesn't matter how much I know my reactions/feelings are biased depictions of reality, how biased my thinking becomes; it doesn't matter because my brain isn't physically capable of making myself feel any different at that moment in time.

The most classically "intelligent" people I know aren't classically depressed, nor are they overly cynical, because they know there's no point to that. Even if they're prone, they're able to separate reactions from reality. I know intelligent people who are depressive too, but they allow their state of being and reactions to control the opinions they make reality and the world.


@Kormak All ENTP's I've met are cynical assholes. They take everything WAAAAY to personally. :P

 

[Kormak]

@Kormak All ENTP's I've met are cynical assholes. They take everything WAAAAY to personally. :P

It not easy being aware of things on a macro scale, seeing the connections and feeling powerless to do anything about obvious problems that are outside of my control.

... so I end up mocking society and people.